I've been looking at aluminium extrusion videos on youtube for the past half-hour trying to work out how the dies have a circular void in the middle.
Turns out it's a second die (called a mandrel) that locks into the main die (called a cap), and the hot pressurised aluminium flows around the mandrel then forms back into one piece as it goes through the cap.
The coolest part (pun intended) is how they cool the semi-melted aluminum after extrusion, in long tanks of water, that have no sides, the sides are made from water pressure made from directing water flow.
Came here to say the same thing. So many pre-made kits using it, and plenty of people who DIY a sim racing cockpit with it. SimRacingGarage has reviewed some 6DOF rigs which use 8020 at their core.
The reason I haven’t used these for a few past projects is that they can’t quite hold up under human-scale weights (1). Would be awesome to have something like this but steel!
That’s what the chart I linked says. To stand on a 1m length suspended on both ends, a 2060 might work but a 2080 should be safe. That’s just a bit smaller than a much cheaper wooden 1x4 though.
I've used 80/20 for a number of projrcts, but for a larger project I found this steel square/rectangular tube system from Flex Craft works well. No relation other than satisfied customer. The people are also great to work with.
Edit: Their calculator shows the same exact deflection with the same weight, so maybe not, though that seems odd to me. https://8020.net/deflection-calculator
That’s only really useful to compare sizes. Normally you just build your structure with as many supports etc as needed. And 30 degree, 60 degree, 90 degree etc connecting pieces are standard to add support struts.
You’re looking for metal framing channel aka Unistrut (brand name) aka strut (trade name). 12 ga steel is going to be far stronger than extruded aluminum. It’s heavily used in commercial and industrial construction.
Great to have another T-slot build system. Seems slightly pricier than Makerbeam but a lot more profile sizes and options in general. I wish there were more kits in their catalog.
80/20 has been around since the late 80s, and are kinda the “classic” brand-name in aluminum extrusions. Popular for trade shows and the like. They tend to be on the more expensive side compared to Misumi or other brands, but you can sometimes find them cheap used on Craigslist.
One of my startups used 80/20 successfully for the mechanical structure of our networked factory stations (along with industrial PC and sensors).
Designed, tested, refined&tuned, and built in Cambridge (USA). Then broken down simply, to fit in a few pieces in boxes for flight, and reassembled at the factory in Asia.
You could but it would be extremely expensive, and not as strong as a steel construction. If you are building a robot that tends to the plants in your greenhouse however, this is a great material to both build the skeleton of the robot, and the structure that holds your plants. It allows you to quickly prototype in a very precise and lightweight manner.
Simple square aluminium tubing would be cheaper and with similar characteristics for this application. You can assemble them quite easily with a drill and bolts/nuts/washers of the appropriate size.
The advantage these profiles have is that they are more precise, are more easily adjusted and allow for a wide range of connections.
I've done all of my extrusion cuts using my miter saw with just the stock wood blade, I go a bit slow and the cut is basically indistinguishable from the factory cuts. I assume it'd do as well on tube stock, but if I was cutting large diameter solid stock I'd probably go with a non-ferrous blade.
I thought it was an Australia thing but yes, $1.50 pipes and $3 fittings are the norm here too. Fortunately, you can 3d print fittings which opens up all sorts of possibilities that don't really make sense for use in plumbing.
I wonder how much outfits like Send Cut Send are eating into 80/20's market share. I know I've used laser cut sheet stock for a few projects that probably would have used aluminium extrusions in the past.
Probably not as much as Chinese extrusions have. You can find some pretty cheap and compatible aluminum extrusion on the internet these days. Ebay used to be the best, but now there are dedicated websites and everything. Extrusions have never been cheaper
Are you sure? I've been looking at getting myself a sim racing rig made of aluminium extrusion and prices have skyrocketed in the past couple of years.
I'd love to get some links on those cheaper extrusion websites you're talking about.
I doubt much if we think decades. Sheet stock has always been used in conjunction to modular systems such as these, via manual or CNC machining (slots and holes are trivial to do). The advantage of a modular system such as these is the ability to build a scaffold with only straight cuts and a few off-the-shelf connectors.
In most cases you need a sheet metal press to form a scaffold out of _just_ sheet metal.
For anything structural (ie: when thickness matters), the price of custom-cut sheet stock is not that competitive anymore.
The price of machine-cut metal sheet has dropped quite a bit the last years though. I think it's filling a new niche, not really replacing the space of modular extrusions.
These types of aluminum extrusions have been used for many years (at least in Europe) in many industries to build all kinds temporary to more permanent structures [1]. Also the reason they ended up in 3d printers as they have been used in other CNC type setups.
Oddly enough the Wikipedia article is very thing and not even available in English [2]
If 80/20 is new to you, then you might also be unfamiliar with its steel channeled cousin, Unistrut. https://www.unistrut.us/
Unistrut is used extensively in the US to build support structures for electrical switchgear and process equipment. You can get grades suitable for outdoor and corrosives exposure.
Unistrut is the Kleenex term, there are a number of work-alike / fit-alike systems.
Good to keep alternatives in mind. I have found unistrut significantly cheaper when you want to build larger scale or stronger stuff. It's not super versatile, but can still do a lot.
I love the Kee Klamp system (or just 'steigerbuis' as we call it here in NL). I built furniture with it in the past, and also a bicycle caravan (https://www.theredpanther.org).
For lighter duty, there is maker pipe: https://makerpipe.com/. it's nice because the bulk of the system is electrical conduit, which I think is one of the cheapest type of beam/tube available.
There is definitely an art to making accurate bends, especially in more than one plane! I have never had more respect for the conduit work electricians do every day with EMT than when I tried to learn how to do it myself.
Not sure why this is getting downvoted, it's true. I have been going down DIY rabbit holes and learning about a lot of stuff that I wouldn't want to DIY. I always thought that list included "AC/electrical work" but, actually, not really, except maybe the service panel itself. If anything, the work I've done is significantly more likely to be up to (current) code than what was already here...
Once upon a time DIYed a large tube structure (solar arch for a sailboat) and quickly realized why software is so cost effective. I'm so used to creating big structures with a few keystrokes. In the real world doing metal work, I would try to do stuff as quickly as I could but you can't escape the fact that sanding or polishing, etc... it all takes soooo much time! Just cutting the fish-mouths in the tubes to have them fit into each other took an eternity, and drilling holes in stainless steel is no fun.
For me, the simplest example was changing the oil on my truck; I could do it, but found it more than reasonable to pay someone else $20 to do it.
For other cases, sometimes I wouldn't mind paying someone else a good market rate -- drywall work comes to mind -- but the mental overhead of contracting and scheduling is currently high enough that I end up just doing the unpleasant work I'd rather pay someone else to.
> electrical conduit, which I think is one of the cheapest type of beam/tube available.
There have been pretty serious PVC conduit shortages for the last year or two. In construction projects I've worked on, they've had to uprate to (much more expensive) fibreglass conduit as PVC was simply not available.
FYI, most hardware stores will have a selection in their electrical aisle, along with basic threaded connections for 1/2”, 3/8”, and 1/4” bolts, angle connectors, etc.
Another extremely flexible lighter-weight structural tube fitting standard that’s widely available is the 1.5” tubing used for drum racks. Not sure if there’s a broader standard that the musical instrument industry is building off there.
Was pleasantly surprised recently to find that the same diameter of fittings was used in an adjustable monitor stand, so if you wanted to mount a cowbell above your dual screen mount the fittings are easily combined.
Depends on the job. Cutting unistrut is far more challenging than 80/20, it weighs a lot, and the connectors are expensive because they are engineered to bear significant loads. 80/20 is a little pricier per foot but it is much, much easier to work with for applications that don't need to withstand a nuclear strike.
Not sure if the throat is large enough but a portable electric bandsaw would be able to chew through the unistrut steel and in the jobs I've used them on they are precise enough.
I used to work in construction and the electrical trade. I’ve shown so many people the power of this seemingly esoteric item in the electrical aisle at Home Depot. It’s so flexible and you disassemble it with one or two tools depending on which fasteners you use.
I bought a 10ft long piece of the strut from Lowes. I bought the slotted type, but I should have gotten the one without slots, the springs on the strut washers get stuck on the slots when sliding them. I cut the strut to length, I think it was 4ft. I bought longer bolts too, I think they are M6 and I bought 1 or 1.25 inches. I bought 1/4 inner diameter 1.5 inch outer diameter washers to attach with the strut nuts. I attached some D rings to those. I can answer more questions if you have them. I drive a 2022 Ridgeline for reference.
Unistrut (“strut”) also has trolleys that roll in the track (1). Very useful for overhead roller systems in a workshop. Be very mindful of fastener clearances if installing one.
I don’t have the handheld, portable bandsaw (“portaband”) that tradespeople usually use to cut strut, so I use a grinder with a cutoff wheel (noisy) or a sawzall with a metal cutting blade (more civilized).
>Unistrut is the Kleenex term, there are a number of work-alike / fit-alike systems.
This triggered a 20 year old memory. A former colleague used to refer to unistrut as kindorf. He was the only person I've ever met in 15+ years of engineering and construction to call it something besides Unistrut. It still bothers me.
Also check out Misumi. They will cut it to length, tap, drill holes, etc all just by configuring it woth part numbers. They Lso have pre made assemblies, you can get it in black anodized, and the pricing can't be beat, it's an order of magnitude less than other suppliers when you get the customizations.
Also check out Vention, they'll design and build a whole machine for you using the stuff
Accu are fantastic. They also have European sites and maybe more? Always my goto if we need weird screws and they will also make to order if you need something special.
Edit : I would guess McMaster fills this role in the US, so it's nice to have an alternative here. Also they have a lot of non-standard lengths and things like tiny M2s or even smaller. We used them all the time for machine vision products (cameras often use M2 frame mounts, lenses with itty bitty grub screws).
They're pretty common in the 3D print industry. Also check out IGUS, who also do a lot of custom rails/rods. They're probably most well known for their plastic Drylin bearings. The prices are also reasonable for what you can get.
I've been meaning to get some stuff from Makerbeam too, who make 10x10 mm extrusion at a good price (not sure who else makes small width stuff). Oozenest in the UK has a good range.
Many years ago, they had a deal running where if you were a new customer they were willing to send you something like $150 worth of materials for the cost of shipping. I bought some 1515 extrusions to build my second 3D Printer, along with some linear rail. It was really great.
Their super power was that you could ship them a SolidWorks file with assembly steps marked, then they would bag all of the parts by step (i.e. for step 1 in the build book, use all the parts in bag 1). Also, if you throw money at them you can get it shipped next day, which is a good option to have.
I've used openbuilds before. They sell all sorts of aluminum rails, wheels, brackets and motors. And they have a community of designers posting builds for all sorts of machines.
I recently used aluminium extrusions to build a window. Built a "perfect" frame, stuffed glazing putty into the spaces, then fit a glass in, which I had cut to size. Needed a DIY job as it was just for my garden house. There's more to a proper window than just the glass and frame.
Last I checked it was hard or expensive after shipping and duty to get this stuff. I am on Vancouver Island and would love to get some of this stuff. Made me even consider starting a business selling it.
If you have access to a 3D printer and want to build a Az/El rotator suitable for LEO satellites it could be a great weekend project.
(You don't have to connect it to the SatNOGS network https://network.satnogs.org of course, and you don't need to build that to participate in the project)
Signed back in for the first time in... years... to add that a lot of DIY van / overlander builders are using this stuff! I opted for the cheaper but almost-as-good TNutz.com manufacturer for my build. Slightly different alloy but totally valid for my needs. If you're considering building a van, check out Seven-O-Savage on youtube:
Unfortunately it’s prohibitively expensive for larger “intricate” work projects. Otherwise it’s good stuff. Just a little more expensive than I’d like per linear meter.
As an example of how you can use this stuff, here's a home-theater screen frame with built-in horizontal masking, and plans on how it could be extended to 4-way masking:
Try tnutz.com. I found them much cheaper for building stuff. They cut it for you as well. Had to build some stuff for my truck and they were the cheapest.
Love these guys and used them multiple times to build small structures. McMaster-Carr (obviously) also has a ton of handy connectors and fasteners: https://www.mcmaster.com/t-slotted-framing/
With all the recommendations flying around, I’d like to seek the collective wisdom’s advice, as I’ve been looking for suppliers anywhere in the world that make these kinds of metal construction framing systems that either make locally in my country or state, or have low bulk shipping to it. I’ve been trying for ages to find a way to avoid the significant markup to ship these sorts of heavy metal items to Western Australia. I’ve even been keepin regular tabs on local metal extruders and the few theatres have extruders in state are pretty much entirely making things for the housing/building construction industry and a couple of standard garden/industry forms like tube triangle, square, star picket, etc…
Anyone got advice on good suppliers local or global? I’m happy waiting a month or three for stuff to arrive from anywhere on the globe if it means I don’t spend 15-25% on shipping.
146 comments
[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 190 ms ] threadTurns out it's a second die (called a mandrel) that locks into the main die (called a cap), and the hot pressurised aluminium flows around the mandrel then forms back into one piece as it goes through the cap.
1: https://us.misumi-ec.com/pdf/fa/2010/p2433.pdf
[0] flex-craft.com
Edit: Their calculator shows the same exact deflection with the same weight, so maybe not, though that seems odd to me. https://8020.net/deflection-calculator
Designed, tested, refined&tuned, and built in Cambridge (USA). Then broken down simply, to fit in a few pieces in boxes for flight, and reassembled at the factory in Asia.
My initial questions are:
Can I use it to build a greenhouse? And how much would that cost?
I couldn't find anything comparable, and left.
The advantage these profiles have is that they are more precise, are more easily adjusted and allow for a wide range of connections.
I bet the pipe is practically continuously extruded from a machine but the fittings also have to be processed and bent into shape before they harden.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2956356
I'd love to get some links on those cheaper extrusion websites you're talking about.
In most cases you need a sheet metal press to form a scaffold out of _just_ sheet metal.
For anything structural (ie: when thickness matters), the price of custom-cut sheet stock is not that competitive anymore.
The price of machine-cut metal sheet has dropped quite a bit the last years though. I think it's filling a new niche, not really replacing the space of modular extrusions.
Oddly enough the Wikipedia article is very thing and not even available in English [2]
[1] https://www.kanya.com/fileadmin/_processed_/3/1/csm_kanya-ag...
[2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstruktionsprofil (German)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-slot_structural_framing
Unistrut is used extensively in the US to build support structures for electrical switchgear and process equipment. You can get grades suitable for outdoor and corrosives exposure.
Unistrut is the Kleenex term, there are a number of work-alike / fit-alike systems.
Then for round tube, there is Kee Klamp: https://keesystems.com/
For other cases, sometimes I wouldn't mind paying someone else a good market rate -- drywall work comes to mind -- but the mental overhead of contracting and scheduling is currently high enough that I end up just doing the unpleasant work I'd rather pay someone else to.
There have been pretty serious PVC conduit shortages for the last year or two. In construction projects I've worked on, they've had to uprate to (much more expensive) fibreglass conduit as PVC was simply not available.
Was pleasantly surprised recently to find that the same diameter of fittings was used in an adjustable monitor stand, so if you wanted to mount a cowbell above your dual screen mount the fittings are easily combined.
It can be a fire/noise/dust hazard, you wouldn’t want to do it in a grassy field or server room, but for any construction site it’s easy peasy.
I don’t have the handheld, portable bandsaw (“portaband”) that tradespeople usually use to cut strut, so I use a grinder with a cutoff wheel (noisy) or a sawzall with a metal cutting blade (more civilized).
(1) https://unistrutstore.com/1-58-metal-framing/unistrut-p2750....
This triggered a 20 year old memory. A former colleague used to refer to unistrut as kindorf. He was the only person I've ever met in 15+ years of engineering and construction to call it something besides Unistrut. It still bothers me.
Also check out Vention, they'll design and build a whole machine for you using the stuff
Edit : I would guess McMaster fills this role in the US, so it's nice to have an alternative here. Also they have a lot of non-standard lengths and things like tiny M2s or even smaller. We used them all the time for machine vision products (cameras often use M2 frame mounts, lenses with itty bitty grub screws).
I've been meaning to get some stuff from Makerbeam too, who make 10x10 mm extrusion at a good price (not sure who else makes small width stuff). Oozenest in the UK has a good range.
Their super power was that you could ship them a SolidWorks file with assembly steps marked, then they would bag all of the parts by step (i.e. for step 1 in the build book, use all the parts in bag 1). Also, if you throw money at them you can get it shipped next day, which is a good option to have.
https://openbuildspartstore.com/
If you have access to a 3D printer and want to build a Az/El rotator suitable for LEO satellites it could be a great weekend project.
(You don't have to connect it to the SatNOGS network https://network.satnogs.org of course, and you don't need to build that to participate in the project)
How to build a van with 80/20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqiroMdqZ0Y
How to build a wooden house!
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/smx-simple-masking-experien...
Anyone got advice on good suppliers local or global? I’m happy waiting a month or three for stuff to arrive from anywhere on the globe if it means I don’t spend 15-25% on shipping.
https://www.motedis.com/en
They'll pre-cut everything you need and send it to you.
If you're into aluminum extrusions, here's a sample:
https://www.motedis.com/en/Slot-profiles