Ask HN: What is your retirement plan? After retirement, what?

48 points by akudha ↗ HN
This is not a question for those with millions/billions in the bank, but for normal software people who have saved some money, but not enough to retire.

What age are you planning to retire? What do you plan to do after retirement? What are you doing to get there?

99 comments

[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 173 ms ] thread
Honestly, I don't ever expect to be able to retire. I've followed financial the advice of my financial planners, targeting retirement at 67 in another quarter decade, and I expect housing costs and inflation to eat up all of my savings to the point where I will still need to work.

I haven't been able to purchase a home due to medical debt and the market conditions when I entered industry and the subsequent surges in home prices, so that's a large part of it, and I'm far too old where a bank will be comfortable giving me a thirty year mortgage, so my options are to rent or be homeless. That's a large part of it.

I implore you, if you're under the age of 30, buy a home now. Eat ramen for several years if you have to. Otherwise you will never retire.

Do you live in Aspen or something? Making minimum wage in nyc? Assuming you are a "normal software person" like OP is asking, that seems a little bit dramatic for the average software career in 99.99% of cities on earth.
>targeting retirement at 67 in another quarter decade ... I'm far too old where a bank will be comfortable giving me a thirty year mortgage

If you're 42 now, you're in no sense too old to get a 30 year mortgage - who told you that? In any case, it's literally illegal under Federal law to use age as a factor when making a credit decision.

I was a consultant at a FinTech startup who had a full-time loan specialist who told me she wrote a 30 year loan to someone in their 70's.
Wouldn't a "quarter decade" be 2.5 years, making OP 64.5 years?
Retiring is a death sentence anyway.
If you don't mind me asking how old are you (I presume somewhere in 40s?)? This is scary as hell, to hear banks refuse loans due to age.
They don't. It's about finances, not age. If you die before you can finish paying off the mortgage they don't care, they'll either get the property or a payout from your estate.
Yes, the mortgage term just determines the amortization of the loan payments. 30-year loans hardly ever reach maturity. In the US, people move on average every 7 years.

A bank would be delighted for a mortgage holder to die, causing the property to be sold and the loan to be repaid, if prevailing interest rates had risen since the loan was created.

It's very sad that OP has been under the impression that age has anything to do with a loan term.

> This is scary as hell, to hear banks refuse loans due to age.

They don't, it is illegal on the federal level to use age as a factor when determining eligibility for most loans (including mortgages) in the US. Check the "must not discourage you from applying or reject your application [...] based on these factors" section of this page[0] on the FTC website.

That concern about age is just how the parent comment imagines it works, without checking how it actually is first.

0. https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/mortgage-discrimination

It's illegal, but of course the banks won't tell you "you're too old" - they'll just deny you.
They can't do that either - they're legally required to give you an adverse action notice indicating why they are unable to extend credit. For conforming loans, they don't even care as they're just going to sell them anyway, rather than holding them on their books.
>I expect housing costs and inflation to eat up all of my savings to the point where I will still need to work.

You keep cash in your mattress or what? You worked and lived through one of the greatest bull runs in history, did you really not put a penny into a 401k or IRA??

I had a significant amount of medical debt that ate up the majority of my income for several years - from about the age of twenty until my mid-thirties. I'm righting the ship now, but those years and markets never come back. I put what I could afford into savings, and I am on-track, according to my financial advisors, to retire at 67, but I'm very skeptical about that and am planning to have to work for the rest of my life.
> I'm far too old where a bank will be comfortable giving me a thirty year mortgage

I wouldn't assume this, you can always try. The criteria will be based on your income and savings and the cost of the home at the time of the mortgage. You may need to move to a lower cost of living area than wherever you are now, though.

I wish someone gave me that advice when I was 30. Well, probably I wouldn't have listened.
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No plans, other than maxing my 401k and IRA. I try to ride the line of saving while also not letting life pass me by. I'm doing enough to where I won't be in dire straits, but I can't suffer in the hopes of retiring early. Just not something I'm willing to do while I'm young and healthy.
"What age" is biased. You should open the question to include the option of "Never" because if you love what you do, why should you ever stop?

To obey some societal expectations?

I'd be happy to stop working on someone else's projects and work on on things that solve problems I care about.

The "you should have a job and it should give you meaning" thing is the societal expectation that needs the most interrogation.

I think you're the one reading "you should have a job and it should give you meaning" into "love what you do."

Honestly, of there's anything you love well enough to become passably good at it, to me it makes more sense to keep doing that, making money or no money, than to sit around and do nothing.

Even if your "work" is the "personal work" of growing to understand cultures and becoming a more grounded, well-rounded human being while traveling the world, there are always opportunities to add value and receive that back in money.

"Retirement" as most people seem to mean it, just sitting around waiting to die, sounds so bleak by comparison to finding something you love to do.

> "Retirement" as most people seem to mean it, just sitting around waiting to die, sounds so bleak by comparison to finding something you love to do

That's exactly how I see it. I can't fathom why one would willfully chose to do that, barring serious illness or injury (and even then, why spend your precious time waiting for death instead of being the change you want to see in the world?)

>"Retirement" as most people seem to mean it, just sitting around waiting to die, sounds so bleak by comparison to finding something you love to do.

Man, I'm sorry, there's just so much wrong with this take. You should seriously hang out with more retired people if you think they're just 'sitting around, waiting to die'.

I really take issue with the fact that we're expected to sell our 40 best years of our lives to work on things we're not passionate about to make other people rich.

Retirement, for me, is simply crossing the point where you work on your own terms for passion and purpose instead of money.

I agree. I refuse to stop working. No matter how old I get, I intend to wake up every day to code and solve problems.
No plans, can't even afford to think about it yet.

Initially at least I want to be able to pay off a mortgage and own my own house, so that whatever retirement ends up being, will have to be much less.

I intend on having a fruitful, storied academic career before suddenly going mad. I then would abandon everything and live on a mountain, making jam by day and writing insane ramblings on a variety of topics that nobody cares about. Eventually I'd like to graduate to becoming one of those yogis that wanders around the Himalayas butt-naked in the snow, but that might be thinking too far into the future.
I'm going to second this one. A physics professor friend who taught me electronics when I was a kid is now "retired", as in still coming in to the university several days a week, but only to do the interesting things they want to, rather than needing to because their boss says so.

One of the perks of academia. You can retire, but prevent boredom.

Any plans to make some chaotic scribblings on a chalkboard that people realize 50 years later is the solution to a long-unsolved question in quantum physics?
Insane tenured professor, I like it.

Before going completely off the rails your last couple of years will be co-publishing papers with ChatGPT and getting listed as 2nd author.

>Eventually I'd like to graduate to becoming one of those yogis that wanders around the Himalayas butt-naked in the snow, but that might be thinking too far into the future.

No no, you're not thinking far enough in the future. Give it enough time and there won't be any more snow!

If human spaceflight is sufficiently affordable 30 years from now, and I'm still alive for it, I intend to book myself a one-way trip to Enceladus to be an ice fisherman.
I would like to contribute to rewilding projects like https://www.americanprairie.org/ and build software to support them or if possible buy land directly for them and establish more throughout the US.
> What age are you planning to retire?

Plan on retiring before 40.

> What are you doing to get there?

Maxing all retirement accounts, putting leftover money into taxable accounts, and letting compound interest do it's thing.

> What do you plan to do after retirement?

This is definitely an open question, and I sometimes feel uncomfortable when I think about it. Saving for retirement is my life goal and when I achieve it, I bet I will soon feel empty. That multi-decade challenge that took thousands of hours will be completed, and now what? I don't know how I am going to fill my weekdays for another possibly 50-60 years. It will be a great problem to have, I just don't have a solution yet.

How much do you think you need?
A prerequisite to retirement for me is having a paid off house, so that could fluctuate my net worth dramatically (do I live in a condo or custom home, somewhere cheap or expensive etc). But in terms of liquid assets that would cover my expenses, $1.5 million in today's dollars with a 3.8% withdrawal rate. I am far enough away that the exact number is not very useful to calculate yet, so I am just throwing that out there.
A standard rule is figure out how much you want to live on and multiply by 25. So if you want 100k per year in retirement multiply by 25 to get 2.5M needed for that income. That assumes a ~25 year retirement, so if you want to retire by 40 and live til 90 you'd need to multiply your desired income by 50. So 5.0M in that scenario. If you can live off less you can reduce the amount needed.

This assumes a 4% withdrawal rate per year.

How do you protect your savings from inflation and market fluctuation?
What do you mean by savings? Do you mean cash in a Savings Account? If so you don't it's inevitable. But you shouldn't have more than a few percent of your total net worth in cash anyway. To beat inflation you invest your money, it's that simple. Investing in a SP500 index nets you something like 7-10% per year on average. That includes crashes and bull runs, so on average.
Maxing my 401k, and we're trying to buy rental houses whenever we have enough money and credit. Hopefully someday we can get enough that my wife can retire first, and then I can retire. We'll see.

A quick wish list of things I'd love to do when I retire (of course this is a long ways away right now, so it's very tentative): - Focus more on exercise and health. - Hike and camp more, and enjoy the beautiful parks the U.S. has to offer. - Motorcycle around, maybe go on long road trips. - Connect with my kids more, and help them with their own kids. - Be more social, and have people over more often. - Keep contributing to open source. - Cultivate my drawing and writing skills - Maybe move to Europe for a bit. I love the idea of living in someplace like the Irish countryside, with their beautiful culture, history, and landscape.

Life has a funny way of getting in the way of all our future plans. My advice is to find a way of doing some of those things now. You never know what might intervene to prevent you from doing all you future dreams (war, illness, a pandemic, plain old age, ...)
I know this may not mean much coming from an internet stranger but please don't wait to focus on exercise and health. It's possibly the single most important thing we have.
If retirement is the idea that I'll work at a job I hate for most of my life, so that in the last decade or two of life I can sit on my ass, I'll pass. Rather use my money to build a life that continues to grow and change. Planning for that requires I figure out how to support myself indefinitely, but absolutely do not plan to stop creating things that support me.
Nothing. I plan to bank enough to live modestly off the returns and focus my life on my spouse and kid. I'll travel, farm my average and relax. I'll do it when the accounts are full and the bills are covered.
I always joke about never retiring and dying at my desk.

But given my family history, it's not ha-ha funny insomuch as 50/50.

It may be bad for the person who finds me, but think how I'll feel.

Male. 35 years old. Married. Single income. 4 kids. Bought a fixer upper house last year. Zero saved. I don’t think I’ll be able to retire till I’m 85.
All houses are fixers uppers unless they're expensive 'just built' new construction with appropriate costs.
I'm 55. I plan on working until 70 (that'll probably be the minimum retirement age for full social security by then anyway). In January of 2038, the year I retire, the unixtime bug will show up for anything running a 32-bit OS and I'll charge a shitload of cash to consult to fix the bug for my last few months (from Jan (when the bug happens) until May (my 70th birthday)).

My house is paid off (bought in 1999, paid extra each month, just paid it off a couple of years ago (30-year mortgage paid off in 23 years)) and both of my kids will be finished with college in the summer of 2030, so that gives me around 8 years to save up. I'm not putting any faith in my 401k or any investments. If they pan out, then cool, but having cash-in-hand when I retire is much more comforting.

After retirement, I plan on staying un-injured and not falling for any money-stealing scams for as long as possible. I'll write software when I feel like it. I'll experiment with new tech if and when it's cool enough to pry myself away from chatting up my fellow retirees and drinking excessively.

Based on your last statement yoh likely won't make it past 75
I'm a postdoc in Portugal who by a mistake - not really mine, although I should have spotted the problem earlier - doesn't even qualify for pensions yet. My contract likely ends before I qualify, but if I qualify my pension would be around 500 EUR/month.

My current retirement plan is to work outside of academia until I die.

Woodworking, of course.
When I feel safe enough to do so, I'm leaving the engineering field completely. Hopefully I can find interesting work where I can take large swaths of time off when the kids are out of school. Really the job itself is there to entertain the brain and provide insurance.

After I do that for a while, I'll enjoy the world and what it has to offer. Whatever that means, with whatever savings is still available.

Spend as much time with my kids and grandkids as I can. There’s nothing else as fulfilling.
Currently dumping $20,000 a year into 401k. Planning on a 65 max retirement age with a goal of 55. 7% rough interest over 32 years would net me $3.5 million by 65, or $1.6m around 55. A 9% average return would net $5.8 and $2.5 respectfully.

Overall I expect that I should be able to happily draw $140,000+ a year during retirement and have that NEVER run out. My wife is a teacher and should be able to pull $40,000-50,000 during retirement as well. Medical would be taken through her retirement plan. Household income between $150,000 and $200,000 during retirement.

Honestly? I don't want to retire. Why would I? I love working on computers, from my basement office and working remotely is great. I have a kid, I would expect to take 2-3, months off a year for less money, but that's not a problem to me.

What would I do with retirement? Clean my house more? walk my dogs more? travel more? Maybe? Work is great and just find something / someone you like working for, have enough fuck you money to not care if you get fired and the rest is gravy.

I think I'm far more likely to leave the programming career (web development) and pursue a masters in something like quantum computing or physics than I am to retire.

Retirement doesn't mean to stop working with computers. It means to stop working with computers to make your boss/CEO rich (in exchange for a bit of money). You can still work on stuff that interests you.
Are you sure about 7% for 30 years straight? These days returns may be negative. Also, 140k in 30 years may be as good as 14k today.
Also 401Ks vary across companies. Many 401ks just don't have competitive funds.

I would invest up to the matching in a 401k up to the limit, and then invest in some good tech companies for long term gains.

My company offers vangaurd, and before that I was a SEP contributor.
> I don't want to retire. Why would I?

I generally feel the same way, but even in my mid-30s I've noticed that my energy levels have definitely trended downwards over time. And I'm doing all the right things: eating healthy, exercising, using standing desk, etc. Nothing too extreme at this point, but I also notice this trend in older relatives and coworkers, so the possibility of this happening to me seems very real and worth planning for.

If it does, there will be a point where I don't have enough energy to put into a full-time job plus everything else I need to do to live, and so it'll make sense to retire then. And if I end up feeling just as spry as I do now in 40 years, then sure why not just keep working?

> 7% interest … 9% return … 32 years

These are wild figures. Most adventurous rules of thumb are about 4-5% over inflation. If you have a way to be confident in getting 7-9% pa over 30 years quit your day job and pile your time into whatever that secret is.

Then you’re pulling out 4% + fees a year which is also around the point of confident adventurousness. Many now say 3-3.5% including fees.

Good luck to you.

Who knows. I make descent money, but supporting a family of 4 with it so only goes so far. I save to a degree, but it also seems so insurmountable to ever save nearly enough and with the way costs of everything are rising even more so. Simply healthcare & food are crazy. Then my kids education before too long.

I have almost come to terms with I just need to live now and stop the voices of all the people that put this shit in my head for the last 40 years of "oh just do X and it's easy to retire! then that's when you life can start!". Life was completely different when I grew up- people had jobs with pensions, healthcare was all in, education was cheap.

But it's hard to push that shit away in your head. Plus I don't trust financial markets worth a damn. I work in the industry, this entire concept of "investing" that the rich have shoved into the middle class is absolutely disgusting and not the way the world should work.

So there's that.

I hear you. People need to realize that the largest generation is retiring now. That means those who have saved are now withdrawing their funds... It means fewer people producing goods and providing services... It means more money chasing fewer goods and services... We are approaching a decision point and how the wealthy choose to deal with it will have a huge impact on how everyone else deals with not having jobs...
Honestly, for the first 10 years of my career, I stuck to common investment advice, but since then, the stock market seems like a giant pyramid scheme to me. I mean, if this generation is going to have fewer kids, then who am I going to be selling my stocks to when I retire? The only way I can fathom it works out is if inflation is greater than it has been in the past, but then are you really any better off if goods cost more as well?
I'm maxing out my 401K match and contributing as much as I can to my IRA. My target date funds are still for retiring at 65 but I would be surprised if by 2060 the age to qualify for Medicare and social security haven't been moved back to 70-ish in the USA. I'm a homeowner but in a state that will likely see water shortages and increased wildfires so I have a longish-term plan to get out before I lose my investment.

My plan is to make sure I retire somewhere in this country there is fresh water and hopefully some protection from food shortages. Probably near the Great Lakes.

I have no plans to retire, both because a major health event scuttled my original plans, and because retirement wouldn't have a large effect on how I live, anyway.

If circumstances arise in which I decide that retirement is a good option, I will live pretty much the same way that I do now, except that I may undertake less activity at someone else's behest. I say "may" rather than "will" because I already do some work pro bono because people ask me to help them with something.

Back when my dad was retiring from IBM, he noted that some statistic said that a disturbing fraction of people dropped dead within a relatively short time of retiring. On the other hand, my dad did not drop dead, but he did end up spending the last ~25 years of his life with little to do other than some light woodworking and a lot of television. I'm not sure which outcome is worse.

So my plan is not to retire, per se. As I become more and more financially independent, I'm simply going to tailor the work that I do and the time that I spend on it to match whatever my desires are. No working on boring projects because it pays well, etc.

In my perfect world, which I will admit is a fetch, one of my side projects will get traction and I'll make enough to pay for a further two decades of unprofitable-but-fun projects. Or I'll win the lottery I don't buy tickets for.

It really helps that I enjoy coding and could happily do it until I croak, I don't consider it work. I keep getting roped into management though.

>Or I'll win the lottery I don't buy tickets for.

I say the same, and I joke that I'm only slightly more delusional than the folks who play and think they can win

That's a good way of putting it too.

If someone asks, I also like to say that the odds of finding a winning powerball ticket on the ground are not significantly different from the odds of buying one yourself.

I can't back that up with real statistical modeling or anything, but given that the best odds are north of 1 in 200 million, it's close enough.

> On the other hand, my dad did not drop dead, but he did end up spending the last ~25 years of his life with little to do other than some light woodworking and a lot of television.

So not much difference from working at IBM?

Ha! I don't know what it was like working at IBM back in the day. I will say that was when they still did the summer picnics[0] and winter Christmas parties with elves who handed out gifts for all the kids. And I still have (somewhere here in my desk, even) the actual silver spoon they gave my dad when I was born, engraved with my name. I'm not sure what the office environment was really like. My dad was a systems engineer, but went to work in a suit & tie. I think he was essentially what we'd call a sales engineer today. Finished out his career on AS/400s. I almost bought him an old working AS/400 off eBay as a gift, since the smallest ones were not much more than an overgrown PC.

I mostly have fond memories of those days. That was a different IBM than today. Back then when they moved you to another office across the country, IBM would buy your current house from you at market price so you could easily make the move and buy a new house where you were going. My dad did that a couple times before landing permanently in Portland.

[0] speaking of the picnics, I recall the joke about how the PCjr was created. The engineers and sales folks were very competitive, and during some heated talk at a picnic, the sales folks boasted that they were so good they could sell *anything* the engineers could dream up. Engineer reply: "Wanna bet?"

We had a PCjr ourselves. They gave them out to employees for peanuts.

It’s just anecdotal, but I know a few men that died shortly after retiring, including my father who also had the same concern. Makes you think…
I joined Alcor and have an excellent life insurance policy so my retirement plan is to work until I drop dead and then hope I end up like Fry from Futurama.
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As soon as possible. So that I can work on whatever creative urges and projects I have from day to day, as well as pursue whatever hedonism strikes me. And learn whatever I want to learn.

I'm living somewhat frugally (but not with a particular budget), working in a high pay field, and not planning on having children unless I marry a wealthy spouse that enables me to achieve these goals despite the added cost of children.

Still, realistically probably not until at least 45-50 since I started saving relatively late (around 30).