Ask HN: Is it unwise to post conservative opinions as a tech worker?

29 points by filecounter ↗ HN
I've been in tech for over 15 years and have never posted publicly under my own name any political opinion. I'm not sure if I'm being a coward or prudent. I used to identify with the left but now I lean conservative, and I feel like there is a huge bias towards that in tech. And any opinion can only hurt me if they look me up. Please let me know what you think on this matter.

53 comments

[ 9.6 ms ] story [ 128 ms ] thread
It’s evidently shown in HN comments
Personally I’m not a fan of discussing these things at work regardless of what pov.

Work is something that should in theory unite us as we work on a mission together in exchange for compensation.

I get that external factors affect people different (I know I deal with my own shit), but I wish work would be an outlet away from those things to focus on something all together.

I agree with that. I don't talk politics on the job at all, I feel we're all the in the same boat with the same mission to succeed and everyone on the team deserves equal respect.

I'm not saying I want to write a workplace manifesto like James Damore. I just want to be able to express my opinions outside of work and not have that influence hiring decisions.

James Damore is a good example. By expressing an opinion in a somewhat careless way, and by the repetition of its simplification in even more careless ways, he managed to alienate about half the workforce at the company he worked for (and almost everywhere else).

I learned to use the Bernard Meltzer criteria: "Before you speak ask yourself if what you are going to say is true, is kind, is necessary, is helpful. If the answer is no, maybe what you are about to say should be left unsaid."

He was actually almost painfully careful about how he expressed that opinion, specifically because he knew that some people would try to misrepresent him. To the extent of continually citing research papers to back up what he said, to constantly caveat everything and so on. In the event, progressives lied about what he said anyway despite his care, knowing full well that their sort of people wouldn't read the actual memo so they could claim anything they liked about it.

He certainly didn't alienate half of all people, that's a wild overestimate, but Google tolerates extremely disruptive behavior from certain types of employees to the extent that it will give in to nearly any demand no matter how unreasonable.

He definitely didn't say anything untrue or even unkind. And he was responding to an explicit request for feedback, so it wasn't unnecessary or unhelpful either. So the Meltzer criteria seems pretty useless there.

No one on the internet discusses politics in a good faith. Most of the time it's not even a discussion, since neither side listens to each other and they just want to regurgitate their talking points, feel good about having the supposedly "correct" take and then belittle the other party for being "wrong". These people are not going to change their beliefs no matter what you write or how well-researched it will be.

Then there are mobs. If you'll get even remotely popular there's a non-zero chance you'll end up getting stalked by some weirdos from twitter/4chan. Lots of these people have close to infinite free time, no moral compass whatsoever, nothing better to do and possibly a mental illness that makes them obsess over certain topics. They will spread misinformation about you all over the internet or will try to get you fired from your current job over something you wrote 7 years ago. If you use your real name they'll quickly find out whatever they can about you and use that to harass you or your family.

Personally, I refrain as much as possible from posting about anything political on the internet, real name or not. It's a huge waste of time that adds nothing positive to a daily life.

I think you are right. Maybe its best to make an active decision to avoid politics and the emotion trap they try to ensnare you in. I find it difficult when every news channel and every tweet tries to provoke a response from you. It can be very addictive.
I think we should. Politics is everywhere - it is how we organize our command chains and direct our collective action towards a set of goals. While corporations are rarely democracies, there is still politics in the sense that all the commands are the result of negotiations between the parts, in which each one informs the other about what's required and what are the possible outcomes.

There is, however, a tendency to take extreme positions and that needs to be fought. We must always debate in good faith - and ensure ourselves that we are doing so in good faith - that we listened, that our opinions are based on objective truths, and that we are willing to change our opinions when confronted by evidence against them.

The writer for the google manifesto did not embark on a conservative topic but it became a conservatives pov after his publishing. I frankly think he was misunderstood by everyone, both right and left sides. I think he was being more intellectual than emotional.

And that is the problem here: politics is more about emotions than intellect. And participating in it means you have to be emotionally intelligent.

So don’t be involved until you’re emotionally intuned with your colleagues.

(I often take the opposite side of my colleagues because that is the only way I can emotionally understand them. Also because I think being emotional over technical issues is foolish.)

He classifies himself as "a classical liberal and strongly value individualism and reason", which would land him on the political right. He also claims Google is ideologically left-leaning and that this bias harms the company and needs adjustment.

> And participating in it means you have to be emotionally intelligent.

Not necessarily, but a certain amount of tact is always required to live in society.

> So don’t be involved until you’re emotionally intuned with your colleagues.

One expedient I use myself (as someone who is blind to a number of social cues most people can immediately identify) is to make people aware of that. People are often understanding if you give them the chance.

Frankly I can't tell what's real or not any more. Filecounter, if that's your real name, you could be just concern trolling. You might be sincere. You might be a bot. You might be in the 50 ruble army spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. Maybe you're just lonely and just want someone to talk to.

I would lean against posting your political opinions on the internet, and instead step away from the computer and you know, spend time with friends. Get some fresh air and exercise. If you want to have some political influence showing up in person is, I don't know, at least a million times more effective than posting internet opinions.

Here's what brought me here. I have a twitter account under my real name which I've never tweeted, and I'm afraid to even like a conservative post by Elon Musk because I feel like someone will find my account and judge me and I won't get my next job because of it. Ridiculous? I know. But I can't be the only one who self censors in today's world.
I find the non sequiturish format of your post quite intriguing. Too plus too sums to an integer, but which one? Elon Musk is a good example of becoming more conservative due to great wealth, after all. His ability to read between the lines is what makes him human, after all. He really passed the The Voight-Kampff test from Blade Runner, and I respect his conservative opinions.
Well you did question if I was a cheap and lonely Russian bot. Only way I could think to respond to that is to communicate my motivation for posting. I'm glad you respect Musk's conservative opinions. He did fire quite a few workers and there are quite a few people out there who dislike him though. I don't know maybe I'm overthinking things. I feel like an overturned tortoise baking in the desert sun.
I'm going to frame this and put it on the wall, I love it so much. A real human would have said 4.
Hire someone from India to use their phone number to create a Twitter account anonymously. You can find providers on freelancing sites as well as social media chat rooms.
I would recommend posting opinions that follow a sound logical argument, instead of obsessing over identity.
It is unwise. There is a bias. Not just against conservative opinion, but all political opinion. People are unwilling to change their own opinion, so debates are nonsensical, with people finding evidence to support a false belief rather than acknowledge that their belief could be wrong. Everyone gets further grounded in their opinion and more polarized.
Thanks. I greatly appreciate your advice on this.
It seems I need to re-read it.
After re-reading it[1], I stand by my previous statements. D'Amore's own political biases show through almost everywhere. One example is that the gender differences in psychology overplay the characteristics more often observed in women and contrasts them with fitness for leadership. The differences in the Machiavellianism scale alone would suggest that an organization should prioritize the promotion of women to positions of leadership over men, based on observation of an increased tendency of men to act egotistically rather than morally[2].

[1] https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideol...

[2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780121744502/studies-in-...

Thanks. I'll need to study up myself.
Depends on who you (want to) work with.

I think about it this way: co-operation depends on trust and shared values, the lack of which hinders or prevents this.

Every one of us is a bag of values, and some of these will often intersect with some of those we work with. Since team work is an active act of co-operation, it makes more sense for me to actively share those values that are broadly in agreement with those that will improve the work relationship.

While your values may shape your political opinions, hopefully they are quite separate.
I think of political opinions as more concrete expressions of deeper values, just like other tastes and tendencies. So while they may generally correlate, a specific political opinion will be the result of several competing values, lived experience and other influences.

So yes, they are somewhat separate, and IMO they can shift quite wildly, given the same set of core values.

If being inundated with certain politics at work bothers you to the point that you're thinking of engaging with them, one option might be to look for a smaller, non-tech industry company that operates in the real world. Some small regional company that (for example) repairs and installs AC units doesn't have the staff sitting around constantly sending emails about politics or attending various training sessions. In a normal environment outside of the Silicon Valley bubble, it's a lot easier to ignore politics or even politely engage with people if that's what you want.
Depending on where you are, the opposite is true. I worked for a while in a hard-right state for an oil company, and failing to proclaim current conservative values with sufficient enthusiasm was a serious career limiting move. Luckily I've since moved on.

Engaging with political debate on Twitter is a terrible idea no matter what your ideology, no matter how mainstream your opinions.

What has the higher probability right now, getting laid off due to macro conditions in the tech sector.....or getting laid off due to your political opinions?

> I used to identify with the left but now I lean conservative

Elon Musk claims this too, but posts all kinds of nonsense. He can get away with it, you can't. Assuming that you are a sane user of the internet however, you should be alright.

Can I get away with 'liking' his nonsense tweets though?
I just read Noise by Kahneman, Sibony, Sunstein, and I'm not sure that we should talk about politics at all anymore. We should think about politics, yes! Read about politics, listen about politics, and experience politics ourselves. But probably not talk too much.

Sharing opinions does reduce cognitive noise, but it also promotes and enforces cognitive bias. Which is a fair trade you might think, and in many practical domains it is. But under democratic system, we already have instruments to reduce noise. We have polls and elections. Democracy is well suited to mitigate cognitive noise.

But not bias. Imagine 100 people. 10 of them are experts in some particular field. The rest is completely clueless. Now let's hold a poll on some binary question from that field. Of 10 experts, let's say only 8 get the answer right because of the noise, let's call it a 20% noise. Of 90 non-experts, however since they all answer fully noisy anyway, roughly 45 will vote right statistically. The vote is the 53 vs 47 in favor of the right answer.

Now let's say, there is a bias that skews the result 10% towards the wrong call. In an expert community, this is not a big deal. 9 out of 10 experts will get the answer right. But among the general population, this would account for 9 votes in the wrong direction. The votes are now 45 vs 55, and the wrong decision is taken.

TL&DR Democracy is statistically more vulnerable to cognitive bias than to cognitive noise. And sharing opinions reduces noise but promotes bias.

As someone with off the wall opinions— liberal opinions- it usually isn’t worth talking politics. Most laypeople also don’t understand politics well enough for discourse to be positive sum.
Wow. I didn't realize it has gotten that bad out there. Well, after reading those at least now I don't feel so alone in my self censorship. Thankyou
God I wish conservatives actually self censored. This thread is hilarious . It's still illegal to hold office as a Communist in most States but yeah totally it's getting hard to be a conservative in this conservative right wing nation
"And any opinion can only hurt me if they look me up."

You answered your own question.

You're being prudent. I keep all my political, spiritual, and philosophical opinions to myself, only sharing with my inner circle.

It seems to work well, I get along with all sorts of people with wildly different, often cooky, views. In my opinion that's more important than signaling my political leanings.

It's unwise to post political opinions, period, as any type of worker. I feel most people who do so are virtue signaling anyway
There is a huge left bias and you will actively be ousted from the FAANGs if you admit any conservative or $non_mainstream opinion. One place I know of – people wanted you dead if you were not vaccinated. It was pure hatred and this was ok with leadership.

Another place where we had significant reach to a large audience we actively curated anti-conservative content.

Vaccination status is not a political issue. And HN is fairly conservative, so there might be a bit of a victim complex going on here.

"Does anyone else feel like they are judged for their minority opinion" is an interesting concept in a community full of like-minded individuals.

I agree with most of the other comments. As a staunch conservative, I have found it better to just keep my thoughts to myself. Additionally, there is usually little to be gained from sharing your opinions. Past a certain age, most be are so set in their opinions that arguing with them achieves nothing. Personally, I enjoy a thoughtful, respectful, and in-depth discussion (maybe even debate), but most people would rather just regurgitate the media talking points or, worse, jump straight to calling you racist, homophobic, a bigot, a religious zealot, or whatever else they think will quickly shut you up. In short, it's better to just keep your thoughts to yourself.
> jump straight to calling you racist, homophobic, a bigot

A common reason for this is of course, if conservative leaders are promoting these ideologies then most people will infer that you as a supporter also agree with those ideologies.

So, don't discuss things in terms of political parties and instead focus on actual issues and how, for example, your conservative approach to fiscal policy is better. Avoid discussions about or support of leaders who regularly proclaim how your race is superior or your sexual identity is superior and you should be fine. For example, I worked very closely with Brendan Eich for about 15 years and we had reasonable conversations on issues that he, as a strong conservative, saw very differently than me (so far to the left I can't be seen by mortal eyes, I make actual communists sound like Ronald Reagan) and I'd honestly be OK with anyone, including current colleagues, or potential employers reading any of that. It was respectful and even enlightening (but mostly entertaining.) I knew early on that Brendan had ideas in some areas that we weren't going to agree on or have a good time debating, and so I avoided those but otherwise it was a fine working relationship. Avoid being an asshole and dehumanizing others and you should be OK.
Almost the opposite. Tech is mostly conservative in the classic sense-- limited government, personal freedoms, etc.
If you feel that your political opinions should be communicated, then do so but not under your own name unless you plan to use your workplace to build an audience. Depending on the workplace, this may damage your career, but sharing your opinions is the first step to building an audience and and switching careers.
I honestly feel the culture has gotten far better. Five years ago, the culture in software was unbelievably shrill, immature, politically naive, self centered.

It was like being immersed in a dunk tank of elementary school children but most of them had college degrees yet no common sense or world wisdom.

If you organized an event which was “insufficiently diverse” they would gang up on you on twitter and lynch you publicly.

I truly feel the shrillness has eased off. I think as people got older, and the political landscape changed I see a lot less of it.

I feel a lot more comfortable having based opinions publicly, the army of children seem to be much quieter now.

Before - the fear was palpable. I didn’t feel comfortable following conservatives because morons on twitter would literally comb through your likes and follows and “out you” for not being liberal.

It was so unbelievably childish and pervasive that you could literally feel it.

I think it’s nowhere near as bad as it used to be. I remember just how bad it was, especially in 2016. I think it became a parody of itself during the trump administration and my hope is a lot of people grew out of it.

Are you me? Do we work at the same company?! The palpable fear and walking on eggshells as you described perfectly mirrors my own experience. It was so "unbelievably childish and pervasive". Sometimes I felt like the only sane person, alone on an island.

Again mirroring your experience, it’s nowhere near as bad as it used to be. My opinion is this decline is tied to "once it can be named, it can be damned." Once people started calling out "wokeness" and laughing, general online leftism lost some of its power. Things as simple as retorting with "CURRENT THING, pronouns in profile" with a laughing emoji have proven powerful on Twitter. You can also see the visceral reaction from being called out. The only ones hurt by using the word "woke" are those who are "woke" themselves. It's an easily identifiable defense mechanism.

Conservative: I have been censored for my conservative views

Me: Holy shit! You were censored for wanting lower taxes?

Con: LOL no...no not those views

Me: So....deregulation?

Con: Haha no not those views either

Me: Which views, exactly?

Con: Oh, you know the ones

Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. Regardless of how right you are or feel you are, it's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The thread itself was an ideological flame war. So in your opinion only conservatives are allowed to respond to this? How does one productively discuss with a person that thinks the most right wing country on Earth (arguably) is becoming Inhospitable to conservatives?
The thread was certainly ideologically charged but was by no means entirely a flamewar. Your comment stood out in that respect.

Anyone is allowed to respond as long as they post thoughtful, substantive, respectful comments. The problem with your comment wasn't your political position, it was the flamebait and snark.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: on closer look, your account has been using HN so completely for ideological battle and flamewar that I think we have to ban it until we get some indication that you want to use the site as intended.

Accounts aren't allowed to use HN primarily for ideological battle*, regardless of what they're battling for or against, It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

* There are past explanations of this point at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...