Ask HN: Feeling Hopeless and Lost at 23

Never get disappointed my friend, there is always a solution; plus, you are only 23 years old, don't forget it!

My degree is CS but offers me absolutely nothing, trust me on that!

If there is a way to chat with you, I could offer my advice if you like.

The most important thing to remember is that there are no bad choices here. If you pick any of these paths, and focus on the things you enjoy, you will be fine.

Very few hiring managers are going to care about your GPA or the specifics of what degrees you have, if you demonstrate the skills needed for the role. In my opinion, every year of real, intentional, work experience is easily worth as much as a bachelors degree.

You already have a degree of any kind, an important prerequisite to most positions, and a real job in industry. That is MORE than plenty to kick start a successful career doing any kind of job you want. Just keep at it.

> really want to go back to school

> I want to get into one of those online masters programs

I would advise you push your life the other direction. Go out into the working world and code (or project manage, or consult, or whatever else you want to do) as much as you can professionally. More school takes you away from your goal, not closer to it.

Your focus now (and forever) is years of experience (with relevant technologies to a job you want), not highest degree achieved.

I guess you are having a hard time with money also. Try and find some charity which might help you. But I live in Spain and do not know what to suggest.

My prayers, that’s all I can offer.

DEPRESSION LIES.

What feels overwhelming?

A philosophy degree will serve you well as a foundation for analysis and thought. It will not pay your bills on its own.

Lots of successful people run into this straight out of uni, because experience cannot be taught, and long-term success is borne by experience. Good luck!

Now, wanting to study Comp Sci more deeply is a valid (and commendable) wish. You seem to be describing (at least) three issues:

* You also seem not to be satisfied with self-study, such as "auditing" courses. Is that because of the lack of instructor feedback? The lack of challenge of pressure/stress and face-to-face interaction? Difficult with the self-discipline required for a study schedule?

* ... You did not indicate whether you're interested in doing more research, rathet than just studying more advanced material. M.Sc. programs often involve both.

* Your low GPA as a barrier to entry. Try to offset it by working on some interesting/useful FOSS (not just for the sake of having done so!); if you can show you have written decent code and that people are using it, this should offset something like a low grade in an introductory programming course. Doing this may also help you with "bankable" skills.

* If it's research you're after, don't just try to "enroll"; look for research groups which do something you're interested in.

Some suggestions: do something like Recurse[0] if you want to continue focusing on programming in a new lower-stress environment, or do something totally different for a while. Hike the Appalachian Trail, build houses with Habitat for Humanity, learn another (human, not programming) language. Get a job as a Park Ranger for a year.

When you’re 23 it can feel like life is a series of stepping stones and if you slip off one you’ll drown (or at least it did for me), but it turns out that we’re pretty fault-tolerant. I dropped out of college, jumped around between being a forklift driver, barista, bartender, and sommelier for the next decade, backpacked in the woods for a while, then started working in tech when I was in my 30s. It’s all worked out fine and I think my life is richer for taking a slightly more meandering path.

[0] https://www.recurse.com/

1) What is your actual goal? When you envision your life in the better place that you are depressed not to be in right now, what does that life look like? What are you doing day-to-day? What do you know/have/do that you can't know/have/do right now?

You can't undo the past so you need to shake the baggage from your previous university performance and focus on determining a next step on the path you want to travel.

2) You say:

> I really want to go back to school and learn things the traditional way because it feels too overwhelming.

but then you also say:

> I really don't have the patience to start a second degree at a third tier college/university because it's pointless to do so.

What is the disconnect that makes this pointless? If the goal is to learn CS the traditional way then why is it pointless to do this at a less prestigious college/university? Is the goal to learn the concepts or to have the top degree that says "CS"?

Also, you probably can land an online masters spot with your experience and GPA. Worst case, take a couple of CS classes at a local university, get great grades, demonstrate that you are a reformed CS student and ready to succeed.

3) All of that said, you might be putting the CS degree on a pedestal because it's the thing you don't have. Is it really the lack of CS degree that is making you unhappy? Many people graduate with CS degrees and still feel lost. There is a lot of learning to do on the job after finishing school.

Quick anecdote from Julia Evans[0] on this topic:

> [...] I have 2 CS degrees but didn’t know what a system call was when I graduated. Some people think this is surprising and a failure of CS education.

> [...] But more importantly – it’s ok to not know things. I knew practically nothing about a lot of really important programming concepts when I got out of grad school. Even though I’d started learning to program 8 years before! Now I know those things! I learned them.

> [...] I have friends who are amazing programmers who sometimes feel bad because they don’t have a CS degree and sometimes don’t know algorithms/CS theory stuff that other people know. They’ve learned the things they needed to know! They are great.

[0] https://jvns.ca/blog/2016/09/12/how-i-got-a-cs-degree-withou...

Studying Computer Science for the sake of learning is great, but if the issue is that you're feeling overwhelmed in a practical coding job, I doubt you're going to learn the types of things that would really help you figure out the basics of the job that you probably don't already know.

It's been a long time since I've been in school, but I doubt that they're going to focus too much on practical things you'll see on the job like how to use X feature in Y popular web framework, or how to do Z with React.

But as with any life choices, do whatever makes you happiest.

Learn as much as you can where you are now.

For you, or anybody that feels like this, schedule a phone call with me!

I don't have all the answers, but I love chatting with strangers about setting goals and learning skills :)

https://calendly.com/taylor-town/30min

My BA from a third tier university has served me very well. Who the fuck says this kind of shit?

> I want to get into one of those online masters programs but let's be honest, with a pathetic 2.44 cgpa there is no way any masters program is gonna let me in.

Have you applied to any?

Listen friend, people make mistakes and start over all the time. If you want it, go for it.

My sugestion is look at where you are and the paths forward. It's about identifying the oportunities ahead not the ones in the past. Personally I also tend to focus a little bit on somewhat abstract longer term goals and focus a lot on the next steps that are now within my reach.

At least where I studied, not one university course would change that. Not even DS&A.

You managed to land a full stack role in a company like Shopify despite everything. I commend that. Really inspirational.

I get wanting to learn things more traditionally. I hope you get the help you need from here or via therapy/counselling. All the best!

Why does it feel overwhelming?

And what do you picture as the traditional way of learning software engineering in school? My experience has been that there isn't really a traditional way. Different schools teach software engineering or "computer science" differently, as its a fairly new subject. So I don't know what the traditional way is, or how much of it is even relevant to the industry.

I never graduated myself. I studied math, dropped out, and started working in software. So IMO whatever the traditional way of learning software either does not exist or is potentially overrated. I'm not even sure there's much of value you're going to learn at school other than something about Big O Notation, which you don't need to pay tens of thousands of dollars to learn. Just my opinion though.

Not knowing you, it sounds like you're overwhelmed by a bunch of other stuff (e.g., the way you talk about your GPA), not just your job.

- Like others have said, dispel the notion that traditional university is worth the cost. It's completely detached from reality, and if you have experience as a full-stack, that's already worth way more to a college degree, to me at least.

- You obviously have ambition, joining hackathons, auditing courses, and getting internships. That goes a really, really long way in this world.

I'd advise what others have in this thread, go out and explore a bit. Take a break! I should be following my own advice in this regard, but I'm a bit of a worry-wart/anxiety-ridden/overly-responsible-to-a-fault individual so it's a bit of a chasm for me to cross, but if you can do it I would absolutely recommend it.

The advice I give everyone is to find a problem you're passionate about solving, because most likely, especially if that problem is a well-known one, you have the foundations of a really solid project and life goal.

You are essentially here to experience the world and therefore the bad experiences count to buuuut this is far from the end of the line.

You can still become one of the greatest programmers the world has ever seen.

I chose to study economical psychology instead of computer science, because, truth be told, comp-sci you can learn in your free time. I have been taught by many people over the years and just kept on rolling with the craft. By now I have 20 years of experience and specialize in Kubernetes, which has not even been invented when i went to college.

Live is full of challenges, that is what makes it worth it. If you really want to become a coder, than the challenges ahead can be solved by educating yourself, interacting with others and just throwing code against the wall.

As for your current job, you definitely should not start out as a full stack. Stuff will click for you by itself with time.

You can't see it, but looking from the outside from someone who's had to deal with psychological demons, it's blaring straight through your post.

There is no shame in it whatsoever. If you get a good one, they can lead you on a path to repairing damage you may not be aware you've taken on, and help you toward building an ordered mind that has a solid direction.

Just try a few, because like most professions, only about 1 in 3 are worth the time and money.

Without any other details, and not being a psychologist, I might guess you had a family member who demanded high academic performance, and demeaned your value if you didn't present it, which might have put you in a place where you both rebel (as evidenced by the bad grades), and feel drawn to do as was wished of you (participate in academic pursuits).

It sounds like you need to develop a clearer sense of self, one that comes from something aligned with what you actually wanted to do, rather than something that was demanded of you.

Other than consulting with a psychological professional, you might consider doing some international travel, to refresh your mind.

You’re clearly a very impressive person. You took a negative path, turned it around and got a great job. They don’t hand those out. Everyone feels overwhelmed by challenging roles - I’d recommend doing more work to understand if your feeling of being out of your depth is shared or typical among your colleagues before deciding that you need to back out and seek more education. You have a chip on your shoulder about not succeeding in your CS program and so your narrative will easily point to that for your feelings of overwhelm, but it’s much more likely that you’re just in a challenging job, and if you could get the job with the degree you got, then if you keep working and learning in 12 months you’re going to be feeling a lot better and very accomplished.

You should be impressed with yourself. I am. Don’t back down.