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Best TLD that can't be taken down by US/etc?

71 points by Andrenid ↗ HN
This is purely hypothetical (I'm way too vanilla to actually have a use for this), but me and a friend were wondering... considering the US now lays claim to any .com domain as their own jurisdiction, and also considering how many domains are getting taken down lately for "arguable" offences, which TLD would you use to have a site that is "safe"?

Just say you wanted a blog where you could post anything you wanted, and host anything you wanted.

Assuming you don't care about the branding benefits of a major TLD.

42 comments

[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 92.2 ms ] thread
foxylad
For this audience? Gotta be *.geek.nz.
nextparadigms
Maybe the one from Iceland. You'll need a country that doesn't bow easily to US, but also doesn't have its own laws for easily taking down domains either. You might find blockaid.me useful, too.
178
ISNIC, in charge with *.is, sez: "Under what circumstances would ISNIC close or delete the domain wikileaks.is based on the contents of their website?

The answer is simple, such an action would require a formal court order from an Icelandic court. ISNIC has never been handed such a verdict about any .is-domain during its close to 25 years of history."                                       

http://www.isnic.is/en/news/view?id=204

c1sc0
One of the reasons why I chose a .is domain for my personal blog. A few gotchas though: registering a .is domain takes a while (think days/weeks instead of minutes) and your TTL needs to be high. http://fr.anc.is
walrus
What does TTL stand for in this context?
mattparlane
It's the normal DNS Time-To-Live:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_live#DNS_records

Iceland's servers have to host the records, so low TTLs would increase their traffic and therefore load.

[dead] ChuckN
Why is TTL relevant here. You register the domain name with Iceland but the nameservers need have nothing to do with Iceland.
dangrossman
@ChuckN : FYI, you have been hellbanned for the past ~2 years. Your comments are automatically marked [dead] and hidden.
biturd
How can you tell, how do you know?
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
thebigshane
Looking through his comments after reading your comment feels just like watching the Sixth Sense. Has ChuckN really been commenting for the past two years without knowing nobody can see him (well except for the few that enable showdead)?

And now, maybe today, ChuckN will read your comment, the first person to acknowledge him after so long, and he will playback the last 2 years of his HN involvement in a montage in his head as all of the pieces start to come together ... why does no one respond to my comments? why do my comments always get downvoted? could it be true? am I really... dead?

This is quite a remarkable story actually.

c1sc0
timezones ... thx for responding about TTL. About the only thing I'd add is that it needs to be set to 24h whereas most others will accept lower values.
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jcdavis
I don't remember having a high registration time for my .is domain, although its possible I just forgot.

The only gotcha I would mention if you go through isnic is that you need to have your own DNS servers, and they have to be registered with ISNIC with a NIC handle (and some other things?). I just use Linode's DNS servers (where I host it), and haven't had any issues.

178
you can also use 1984.is, an icelandic free dns provider. nice guys, too.
dataminer
Have you used their vps service? If you have please comment on its reliability, seems very competitively priced. According to wikipedia 100% of Iceland electricity is produced from renewable sources. I am tempted to move most of my servers to Iceland.
ComputerGuru
Welcome to Hacker News. Thanks for sharing and contributing, it's appreciated.

Please refrain from using '1337' speak here. s/sez/says/ and thank you.

electic
Thanks for wasting pixels on my screen ComputerGuru...
Benares
First, find a TLD that isn't administered by a company doing business in the U.S. on http://iana.org/

If relevant to your domain's future content, optionally consult http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_internationa... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_internationa...

Then register your domain(s) with an ethical registrar that does not do business in the U.S. and will only respond to court orders in their own country.

A possible option would be http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/st.html through http://www.nic.st/ . The company (Bahnhof) has a vocal history of protecting it's clients against corporate depredations; see http://www.thelocal.se/18882/20090416/

ashconnor
The trend in piracy sites is to register .ru/.me of their chosen domain name.
joelrunyon
Who controls .me?
ashconnor
A company called doMEn (domain.me) based in Montenegro.
joejohnson
.onion

https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-hidden-service.html.en

justindocanto
.onion is not a TLD. I've seen it classified as a "psuedo TLD" but either way.... dot onion would be a horrible substitute to anything mentioned in the comments. the user base for tor/oninion is catastrophically smaller and the requirements to view a .onion site reaches a little further than the general public can take. think of how many people don't even realize there's VERSIONS of internet explorer and have never upgraded. cringes
[dead] ChuckN
.ch (Switzerland) is probably the best rule-of-law domain. Wikileaks is still going strong on that.

I like the idea of .ru or other TLDs under sclerotic court systems.

The fear with .ru would be that somebody could 'buy' your domain with corrupt influence.

I would say .ru for 'anything goes' or .ch for 'I know I am in the right and I think a truly independent court would defend me'

thebigshane
[http://dot-bit.org/Main_Page]

   What is Namecoin

   Namecoin is a peer-to-peer generic name/value datastore 
   system based on Bitcoin technology (a decentralized 
   cryptocurrency). It allows you to :

   Securely register names (domains for example), no 
   possible censorship!
   Trade and transact namecoins, the digital currency NMC. 

   Read more about Namecoin.


   What is Dot-BIT

   Dot-BIT, the first project using namecoin, is building a 
   domain name system (DNS) using the .bit TLD. Our goal is 
   to spread .bit domains by providing resources and tools 
   to the community, from developers to end users.
[Edit: Perhaps this is being downvoted for not providing any extra information myself. If you truly want a resource that can't be taken down, then it will require some technical effort on your part AND your audience: either .onion hidden services or .bit names, OR just a static IP address.]
thebigshane
On another note, if the motivation is due to SOPA, then SOPA targets all foreign domains (not able to take your server down, but prevent other American's from resolving your domain name -- and I should also not that this was before today, where they seem to have taken that part out of the bill).
lancewiggs
.nz justly prides itself on a robust, cheap and fair disputes resolution service. It's based in New Zealand, a country which is regularly ranked in the top three least corrupt in the world, and currently number 1.

InternetNZ is an open membership charitable society that is the delegated country manager for .nz and has the objective to strive for an open and uncapturable internet.

They delegated the day to day management of .nz to www.dnc.org.nz, who also run the disputes service (http://dnc.org.nz/story/drs-home), while the register itself is delegated by InternetNZ to www.nzrs.net.nz. This structure was set up to ensure that these sorts of issues would be resolved appropriately.

I note that the new gTLDs (.whatever) will need to use ICANN's standard dispute resolution process, which is convoluted, lengthy and expensive. I do not know how these will fare under SOPA et al.

(I'm an elected Councillor of InternetNZ. http://internetnz.net.nz)

mhansen
FYI to people considering .nz: WHOIS Privacy is not allowed in .nz.

I'm very happy with my .nz domain, but it's lame that I have to have my home address in a publicly accessible database.

taf2
use a PO box? unless there are some downsides, like ssl cert issuers not issuing for PO box?

this looks easy enough: https://poboxes.usps.com/poboxonline/search/landingPage.do

I'd assume other countries provide something similar?

JS_startup
PO boxes are not a legitimate solution for someone needing total anonymity. Anyone can fill out a request for boxholder information form to find out the identity of the person who registered it.

edit: The USPS will provide this info no questions asked, no subpoena or court order required.

MatthewPhillips
Don't use domain privacy. By using it you give up legal ownership of your domain. The entity listed in WHOIS legally owns the domain.
Nick_C
I'd be wary of putting NZ ahead of others. NZ is currently negotiating a Free Trade Agreement with the U.S. If it is anything like Australia's, and it will be simply because the U.S. has more clout, NZ will have to agree to implement, among other things, the same copyright laws as in the U.S.

Australia had to implement the ridiculous "70 year after death" rule, and so on.

dsl
Outside the reach of the US pretty much means countries with hostile diplomatic relations. Any safety you might be afforded by other countries (say New Zealand or Sweden) depends on if you are worth someone in DC picking up a telephone. A quick check over at the State Department website gives us a few candidates:

  Belarus - Nope. Most of the DNS infrastructure is hosted in US friendly countries (Poland, Russia, etc.)
  Burma (Myanmar) - Nope. Getting a domain requires being friendly with the government.
  Cuba - Nope. Requires physical presence in Cuba.
  Democratic Republic of the Congo - Nope. Registration open to anyone, but DNS servers are in the US(!), Sweden, Republic of South Africa.
  Iran - Maybe. Generally open for registration, and one of the more tech savvy sanctioned countries. Don't mention politics, religion, porn, or any other sensitive topics and you should be ok.
  Libya - Nope. Democracy is on it way, please allow 6-8 weeks for shipping.
  North Korea - Nope. Must have presence in country for registration. All infrastructure and management actually takes place in Thailand.
  Syria - Maybe. Hosted and managed in country, but a shitstorm is on the horizon.
soult
You just listed the countries where your domain is most likely to be seized by the government. Well, maybe add UAE and Saudi Arabia for completeness' sake.

I don't think a call from Washington DC to any country is enough to shut down domains, otherwise, what would the US need SOPA for?

doobie
He actually listed countries that are highly unlikely to cave to pressure from the US. This list, by design, is comprised of what you might call less than friendly hosts.
justindocanto
i dont have any technical evidence to back this up but i feel like .ru domains tend to be pretty resilient to US take downs. i've seen so many blatantly illegal websites and/or hacking scripts hosted on .ru domains that seem to never go away. granted, i'm sure they also trigger spam filters like crazy.

.nz i could see catching on. there's got to be a much more 'friendly' TLD though. nz doesn't feel as generic as com/biz/net/org

who controls .mobi?

keane
Maybe Switzerland's .ch/.li - info at https://www.nic.ch/reg/index/view.html?lid=en

You might note that .ch/.li is used by a number of controversial sites at the moment such as:

  1channel (.ch)
  Anonops IRC (.li, also .lc)
  Encyclopædia Dramatica (.ch) (IRC used by LulzSec, IRCop arrested)
  Wikileaks (.ch, used when EveryDNS disabled .org)
  Putlocker (.ch, mirror of .com)
  Quicksilverscreen (.ch)
See this article about pressure from the US and French governments on .ch (Switch) to censor WL, which they refused: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/04/wikileaks-site-s...

WIPO has assembled links to various ccTLD's policies; here is their page for .ch http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/cctld/ch/index.html

pestaa
I know a medium-sized site in Hungary, Europe that is in the process of moving to an .org TLD. They said SOPA couldn't touch that extension, but I'm not sure. They host content that can be easily argued as copyrighted (by someone else, of course.)