they consider Ukrainians not to be a real nation/ethnicity but mislead/confused russians. Hence they don't deserve their own state and should be re-educated to be a proper russians
Maybe the facts that they state are true, but the way they are presented is just insane.
The main issue I have with this is that they present it like "evil Russians are kidnapping children", implying that they are better off dying in a warzone instead of getting actual education and a chance at life. This is very one-sided and politically engaged.
> The main issue I have with this is that they present it like "evil Russians are kidnapping children", implying that they are better off dying in a warzone instead of getting actual education and a chance at life. This is very one-sided and politically engaged.
Maybe they are better off fleeing to Europe or safer cities in Ukraine and not being captured, forcibly deported, forcibly adopted to Russian families and 're-educated'.
Yeah, through the fricking frontline, through the same guys that shelled their cities for 9 years. Solid plan.
> captured, forcibly deported, forcibly adopted
Why forcibly? There is literally no evidence that any kind of force was ever used. I bet most of them are more than happy to leave the hellscape they lived in for so long because of Ukrainian government.
> Yeah, through the fricking frontline, through the same guys that shelled their cities for 9 years. Solid plan.
Ah yes much better they get taken by the army thats soldiers rape and torture civilians, including children in Ukraine.
> Why forcibly? There is literally no evidence that any kind of force was ever used. I bet most of them are more than happy to leave the hellscape they lived in for so long because of Ukrainian government.
Russia invaded, no one forced them too, this is all the fault of Russia and no one else.
> Maybe if the little green Russian FSB and GRU soldiers didn’t turn up Ukraine wouldn’t have had a reason to shell those areas.
Yet again, no evidence. You have to get your facts straight, good sir. And even if it was true, maybe if ukrainians did't overthow the goverment and replace it with neo-nazis, east ukrainians wouldn't want autonomy. Just sayin
> The UN disagrees with you, they found credible claims of child rape and torture.
why then they don't present it in any verifiable form to russia? Maybe it would help to prosecute such criminals. Just sayin.
European countries are interested in smearing Russia. Like they say Nord stream blow up is russias doing, like its famous russian entertainment to first build billion dollar pipelines and then destroy them for no reason.
Stop blindly believing everything on the internet. Use your brain goddamit.
> Not to mention the torture videos we have,
Yeah, surely there is NO VIDEOS OF UKRAINIAN SOILDERS TORTURING THEIR CAPTIVES BE IT RUSSIAN SODIERS OR THEIR OWN SUPPOSED TRAITORS.
> but I’m sure you’ve got some line for the video we have of Russians castrating Ukrainian soldiers too.
only such video i've seen is when ukrainians tortured one of their own (who was rumored to be a pdf-file or something like that idk) they tried to frame it like russians were torturing ukrainian soldier, but it can be clearly seen in the video that their russian dress-up is sloppy to say the least.
> Yet again, no evidence.You have to get your facts straight, good sir.
They're more evidence for the child rape accusations than any of the Russian claims. But you choose to believe one and not the other, I wonder why.
> And even if it was true, maybe if ukrainians did't overthow the goverment and replace it with neo-nazis, east ukrainians wouldn't want autonomy. Just sayin
So the Russians are allowed to invade and start a civil war because a government that didn't cow-tow to Russia constantly got into power?.
> why then they don't present it in any verifiable form to russia? Maybe it would help to prosecute such criminals. Just sayin.
Because Russia gives medals to the rapists, the torturers and the people who kill civilians so why would anyone bother.
> European countries are interested in smearing Russia. Like they say Nord stream blow up is russias doing, like its famous russian entertainment to first build billion dollar pipelines and then destroy them for no reason.
Russia has a lot of experience in blowing up pipelines, they have done it multiple times in the past, but as far as I know, no one government in Europe has come out and said who did it?.
> Stop blindly believing everything on the internet. Use your brain goddamit.
Stop blindly parroting Russian propaganda.
> only such video i've seen is when ukrainians tortured one of their own (who was rumored to be a pdf-file or something like that idk) they tried to frame it like russians were torturing ukrainian soldier, but it can be clearly seen in the video that their russian dress-up is sloppy to say the least.
A yes of course it's Ukrainains dressed up as Russians to blame for something. Not just the Russians being Russians.
This video was originally posted on a Pro Russian telegram, where the poster identified the person who was being castrated, and the person doing he castrating as Russian.
Why would a Pro Russian Telegram post that if it was fake.
...to protect fellow russian speaking folks from the slaughter by neo-nazi regime.
And for starters, russia didn't start civil war, ukraine did when they started shelling donbas.
> Because Russia gives medals to the rapists, the torturers and the people who kill civilians so why would anyone bother.
Maybe they don't know these people are horrible criminals. If you have proof present it already and stop with the excuses.
> they have done it multiple times in the past
examples?
> Stop blindly parroting Russian propaganda.
Stop blindly parroting USA propaganda.
> Not just the Russians being Russians.
Oh, so you are a nazi. Could have said so from the start, maybe we'd avoid all this argument. You just hate russians.
> Why would a Pro Russian Telegram post that if it was fake.
There are a lot of posting going on rn. Most of it is bound to be fake. Can you for example give me one example of idk... Zelensky saying something that isn't utter bullshit.
Exactly, the quality of any evidence for Russians claim is nearly 0.
> ...to protect fellow russian speaking folks from the slaughter by neo-nazi regime.
Where's the quality evidence for any of this?, no that im expecting any, the 'neo-nazi' shtick is typical Russian propaganda.
> Maybe they don't know these people are horrible criminals. If you have proof present it already and stop with the excuses.
A yes, I forgot, Russia the country without access to the internet or other media. Theres plenty of evidence online and plenty of people have provided lots, Russia doesn't care.
> Stop blindly parroting USA propaganda.
The truth, is not propaganda, just because it makes Russia look bad does not mean it's false.
> Oh, so you are a nazi. Could have said so from the start, maybe we'd avoid all this argument. You just hate russians.
I don't hate Russians, but I do hate people who rape children and torture civilians, but I can see why it'd be easy to mix them up.
I am also confused about how not liking Russians would make a nazi, care to explain that train of thought for me?.
> There are a lot of posting going on rn. Most of it is bound to be fake. Can you for example give me one example of idk... Zelensky saying something that isn't utter bullshit.
So the Russians are posting fake news, that makes them look like there castrating a Ukrainian soldier, to their own telegram so that they can achieve what exactly?.
Yeah im sorry that makes literally no sense.
Far more likely its real, its just very inconvenient for you.
> quality of any evidence for Russians claim is nearly 0
Baseless.
> Where's the quality evidence for any of this?
Proof of what? That Russia has the right to protect fellow Russians? Or are doubting the slaughtering part? If it's the latter it's ridiculous, cause even western media (if understated) but wrote about donbas shelling by Ukraine. Read some OSCE reports for example.
> A yes, I forgot, Russia the country without access to the internet or other media. Theres plenty of evidence online and plenty of people have provided lots, Russia doesn't care.
Ah yes, I forgot, the west bans all even slightly pro-russian outlets (in a very democratic way of course), that's why you didn't see any proof of Ukraine military commiting actual war crimes. But hey, I guess the west just doesn't care. They will fuel the conflict and they will "fight till the last Ukrainian".
> The truth, is not propaganda, just because it makes Russia look bad does not mean it's false.
I can call my position "the truth", what makes your "truth" better than my "truth", huh? Oh, yes, it doesn't paint the west in any negative connotation.
> but I can see why it'd be easy to mix them up.
Attaching negative traits to nation that is. It is alike saying "all [nation/race] are criminals", don't you see?
> I am also confused about how not liking Russians would make a nazi, care to explain that train of thought for me?
If you don't see how HATING ENTIRE NATION makes you a nazi, something is seriously with you.
> So the Russians are posting fake news, that makes them look like there castrating a Ukrainian soldier, to their own telegram so that they can achieve what exactly?.
Idk, as the tg admin who posted it (btw, if you believe tg channels you have no right to question my sources, lmao).
I saw Ukrainian blogger post video of him allegedly "eat a corpse of Russian soldier"(which is entirely fake). What was he trying to achieve? I also saw a video of Ukrainian woman "cutting throat of Russian soldier with a sickle" and saying something along the lines of "you are not welcome here", what was she trying to achieve?
I'll tell you what... intimidation. It's psychological warfare. Every side will try post something that is scary to the other. Doesn't matter if it's fake or not.
> Proof of what? That Russia has the right to protect fellow Russians? Or are doubting the slaughtering part? If it's the latter it's ridiculous, cause even western media (if understated) but wrote about donbas shelling by Ukraine. Read some OSCE reports for example.
The Donbas shelling by the Ukrainians, started after the totally not Russian soldiers appeared. You know the ones who were operating that BUK that shot down a passenger jet?.
> Ah yes, I forgot, the west bans all even slightly pro-russian outlets (in a very democratic way of course), that's why you didn't see any proof of Ukraine military commiting actual war crimes. But hey, I guess the west just doesn't care. They will fuel the conflict and they will "fight till the last Ukrainian".
I am free to read RIA and other Russian government run media outlets, so I not sure what you mean by this.
> I can call my position "the truth", what makes your "truth" better than my "truth", huh? Oh, yes, it doesn't paint the west in any negative connotation.
my truth is better because it's objectively true, where yours is trying to muddy the waters to further Russian agendas.
> Attaching negative traits to nation that is. It is alike saying "all [nation/race] are criminals", don't you see?
But the Russians are doing this because we have confessions and video evidence?.
> If you don't see how HATING ENTIRE NATION makes you a nazi, something is seriously with you.
It's not really about hating the entire nation, its more an expression but I can see why someone who doesn't have English as a first language would mistake that.
> Idk, as the tg admin who posted it (btw, if you believe tg channels you have no right to question my sources, lmao).
What sources, you haven't posted any?.
> I'll tell you what... intimidation. It's psychological warfare. Every side will try post something that is scary to the other. Doesn't matter if it's fake or not.
But why would they post a video of _UKRAINIANS_ castrating Ukrainians, claiming for it to be them?.
Evidence of what? That you didn't present any evidence? That's kinda obvious. You just talk out of your ass.
> after the totally not Russian soldiers appeared.
Source?
There were no Russian troops in Donbas until 2022. There were volunteers that happen to be Russian, because a lot of Russians have relatives in Donbas and stepped up to help. The was no official operation there.
> who were operating that BUK that shot down a passenger jet?
It's long been proven that passenger jet was shot by Ukrainians.
> I am free to read RIA and other Russian government run media outlets, so I not sure what you mean by this.
Maybe you are free to read them, but they will never appear in your feeds and seldom in search queries.
That's not all of course. That is just the stuff that wasn't that hard to find. Is that sufficient enough evidence for you?
Censorship on the west is even more severe than in Russia. Because in Russia you can at least use VPN to sidestep a block, but in the west they just remove your stuff or hide it so no one can ever find and read you. Either you are just ignorant or deliberately manipulative.
> my truth is better because it's objectively true, where yours is trying to muddy the waters to further Russian agendas.
So far you haven't presented any proof of your "objectively true truth", so shut the fuck up.
> But the Russians are doing this because we have confessions and video evidence?
Russians who? Russian cashier in a storefront? Russian factory workers? Russian engineers? Why tf you generalize 150 million people so carelessly? Criminals are everywhere. Would you be ok with me calling your entire nation criminals if I saw a video of one of you murdering s...
> Source? There were no Russian troops in Donbas until 2022. There were volunteers that happen to be Russian, because a lot of Russians have relatives in Donbas and stepped up to help. The was no official operation there.
A yes volunteers that happen to be Russian, with Russian weapons, and Russian equipment funny that isn't it.
> It's long been proven that passenger jet was shot by Ukrainians.
There was literally a court case about this that just ended in the Hauge, findings where the Russians shot it down, but im sure you won't believe any of that evidence because it's inconvenient.
> So far you haven't presented any proof of your "objectively true truth", so shut the fuck up.
Theres no need to be rude, personal attacks against people are against the rules on hacker news.
If you cannot calmly state your views then maybe don't comment.
> Russians who? Russian cashier in a storefront? Russian factory workers? Russian engineers? Why tf you generalize 150 million people so carelessly? Criminals are everywhere. Would you be ok with me calling your entire nation criminals if I saw a video of one of you murdering someone?
Russian soldiers, have been seen on camera many times just straight out executing citizens, I mean im sure you'll find a way to justify a Russian tank deleting a vehicle in a town they where meant to be 'liberating'.
> This makes perfect sense. It's a statement along the lines of "see Ukrainians castrate Ukrainians, Russians don't castrate Ukrainians, so better give up and you'll be perfectly safe". Don't you get it?
But they posted it AS them castrating the Ukrainian, so once again this is just straight up mind blowingly stupid.
> What tf is this nonsense? Please elaborate.
The Russians have a reputation for kinda doing terrible things during wars so saying something like "it's just Russians being Russians" is not meant to be literally applied to every Russian but more to the situation.
> A yes volunteers that happen to be Russian, with Russian weapons, and Russian equipment funny that isn't it.
Let me ask you this: is everyone who owns an American gun an American trooper?
> you won't believe any of that evidence because...
...you will never deliver it. This seems to be a reoccurring problem with you. I've already pointed out that you don't link your sources, and you keep talking out of your ass.
> Theres no need to be rude, personal attacks against people are against the rules on hacker news.
It's not a personal attack, my dear. Personal attack is an appeal to some quality of an opponent. There was none. I just told you, that if you can't back up your crazy "objectively true" claims then better keep them to yourself.
> Russian soldiers, have been seen on camera many times just straight out executing citizens, I mean im sure you'll find a way to justify a Russian tank deleting a vehicle in a town they where meant to be 'liberating'.
Ukrainian soldiers, have been seen on camera many times just straight out executing citizens, I mean im sure you'll find a way to justify a Ukrainian tank shooting at a school in a town they where meant to be 'liberating'.
> But they posted it AS them castrating the Ukrainian, so once again this is just straight up mind blowingly stupid.
It was just a theory. Since you haven't linked the source yet, I'm not aware of the whole context of this post. So yeah. Sources again.
> The Russians have a reputation for kinda doing terrible things during wars so saying something like "it's just Russians being Russians" is not meant to be literally applied to every Russian but more to the situation.
How exactly did they get such reputation? Ah, USA propaganda, alright. Ever since the cold war they were trying to smear reputation of USSR soilders, now they do the same shit to Russia. Let's take for example the "Bucha massacre".
Ukrainian trooper's posted horrifying pictures of bodies laying all over the street, they claim it's Russians who did it. ONE HOUR LATER western politicians already post shit like "WE KNOW THE TRUTH, ITS RUSSIA WHO DID IT". No investigation required. Ukraine can post ANYTHING, and they will happily accept it. Because it's convenient. Yet the Russian side was on the more rational side, actually trying to investigate stuff, a lot of people noticed that circumstances about this incident just didn't match up. But the west didn't care. And the amount of such cases is just too big now. It's much easier to produce bullshit than to disprove it.
But the fact is it's USA army who's known for atrocities during war. Like shit they did in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, and so and so on... They were ruthless. The amount of war crimes committed by them just in 21st century probably exceeds all of humanity previously. Their officials singing in a cheery voice shit like "bomb bomb bomb Iran".
Why don't you talk shit about them? Ah, they were bombing brown people, they probably are worth less to you.
> Let me ask you this: is everyone who owns an American gun an American trooper?
When they are operating an American Patriot missile system they just might be.
> Ukrainian soldiers, have been seen on camera many times just straight out executing citizens, I mean im sure you'll find a way to justify a Ukrainian tank shooting at a school in a town they where meant to be 'liberating'.
Okay show me some evidence that isn't from some Russian propagandist site. It also doesn't at all excuse the Russian crimes, but if you want to think that Ukrainians doing bad stuff justify Russians raping children go for it I guess.
> It was just a theory. Since you haven't linked the source yet, I'm not aware of the whole context of this post. So yeah. Sources again.
A theory with no credibility either.
> How exactly did they get such reputation? Ah, USA propaganda, alright. Ever since the cold war they were trying to smear reputation of USSR soilders, now they do the same shit to Russia. Let's take for example the "Bucha massacre".
Ah yes, I keep forgetting its all USA propaganda everything that Russia has every done thats terrible, even if its caught in 4k, with an admission on camera its all 'fake news propaganda'.
> But the fact is it's USA army who's known for atrocities during war. Like shit they did in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, and so and so on... They were ruthless. The amount of war crimes committed by them just in 21st century probably exceeds all of humanity previously. Their officials singing in a cheery voice shit like "bomb bomb bomb Iran".
> Why don't you talk shit about them? Ah, they were bombing brown people, they probably are worth less to you.
The Americans did terrible things in a large number of countries in the 21st and 20th century and should have never entered a large number if not all the wars they where in.
But this whataboutism doesn't stop the fact that Russian troops, torture and rape civilians and commit other horrendous warcrimes in Ukraine.
I just admitted America did terrible things.
Now why don't you admit that Russia should get out of Ukraine and stop committing all the war crimes they seem endlessly commit.
Your response will no doubt be laden with claims about it all being fake news and you will somehow justify all of the heinous acts they commit.
See? Ukraine does some fucked up shit too. Didn't you know about it?
> A theory with no credibility either.
You gave me nothing to work with aside from "I saw it in some pro-russian tg channel", I could come up with dozens of similar shit from pro-ukrainian channels.
> caught in 4k, with an admission on camera its all 'fake news propaganda'.
Link the video then.
> Russia should get out of Ukraine
They will. Once the goals of special operation are achieved. Leaving right now is not an option. Leaving right now means losing. It means that abandoning people who waited so long for Russia to protect them. If Russia leaves now all of them will be in danger. So the only option is to fight until victorious end.
And Russia will win. Whether you like it or not. All the NATO is doing is prolonging the suffering of both Ukraine and Russia, while also making some buck.
> and stop committing all the war crimes they seem endlessly commit.
yeah, "seem". And don't get me wrong. I'm not denying that probably some of this war crime allegations are probably true, but it's over the top what the west claims. Ukraine is also guilty with evidence, but the west seems hesitant to talk about it, and maybe some of this is fake, but now it's too early to decide. The nature of the situation in Ukraine rn doesn't accommodate for real thorough investigation. Plus the information warfare going on, and Russian propaganda machine sucks compared to NATO's. Every side tries to smear the other, and it's really hard to tell what's true and what's a lie.
This argument is kinda getting old. I'm tired of talking in circles. I'm tired of trying to educate you that it's not so...
> Natural News (formerly NewsTarget, which is now a separate sister site) is a far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience, disinformation, and far-right extremism.[1][9] The website began publishing articles in 2008 and is based in the United States.[1][6]
Do you seriously believe "mainstream media"? Kinda NPC move, ngl. They are all paid for by interested third parties. There is no such thing as "independent media" now. Mainstream outlets belong to some billionaires with ties in the government. It's the same shit as just state owned media, except it's worse, because you don't even know you are being lied to. Sorry to break it to you, but nowadays only place you can find actual truth is in garbage undeground media, unfortunately, and the others you'll just call "propaganda outlets". Call me conspiracy theorist but that's just the reality we live in.
> More Ukrainian civilians have died in a single year than in the entire war in the Donbas but okay.
Btw don't you find it sus, that western media claims that Ukraine was at war with Russia since 2014, but yet when Russia actually started military action they started dying like flys? Maybe there were not fighting Russian military in the first place.
> The goals of the SMO are to rape, torture and terrorise Ukraine into to be subservient to the new faschist state that proudly flies there Z like a swastika.
First of, fakes again.
Second, let's not mention the literal swastika in Azov battalion emblem, it's not convenient :)
Third, their greeting "Glory to Ukraine! Glory to heroes!" was literally made up by Nazi collaborators.
> perpetuating hate towards the people committing war crimes in Ukraine against Ukrainians.
Vladimir Zelensky should be the first one on your list.
> Do you seriously believe "mainstream media"? Kinda NPC move, ngl.
Do you seriously believe some random website with no sources?, ngl, sounds like you have no real sources so you're trying to pass off the drug addled fever dream of some random internet users as "media".
> They are all paid for by interested third parties.
Like how Russia appears to be paying a whole bunch of people and websites online to spread pro Russian propaganda, or 'ask questions' via there firehose of falsehood propaganda model?.
> Sorry to break it to you, but nowadays only place you can find actual truth is in garbage undeground media, unfortunately, and the others you'll just call "propaganda outlets". Call me conspiracy theorist but that's just the reality we live in.
A yes the only place we can find "actual truth" is from the guy being paid by the Internet Research Agency and other Russian troll factories, everything else is "fake".
> Btw don't you find it sus, that western media claims that Ukraine was at war with Russia since 2014, but yet when Russia actually started military action they started dying like flys? Maybe there were not fighting Russian military in the first place.
It was a frozen conflict previously, like Russias frozen conflicts in multiple other post soviet states eventually they turn into a sort of stalemate and not much happens.
How can you be surprised that theres more deaths when a country literally invades on all fronts after having a static front for years?.
> First of, fakes again.
Ah yes once again back to that Russian classic "everything that paints Russia poorly is fake".
> Second, let's not mention the literal swastika in Azov battalion emblem, it's not convenient :)
Let's not mention the literal swastiskas all over tonnes of Russian soldiers and the multiple Nazi PMC's Russia is actively using in Ukraine, its not convenient is it?.
> Yahoo News cannot independently verify the authenticity of the video
Nice try, but no sources have verified the authenticity of the video. And I should congratulate you - you started actually linking sources, good job! Or perhaps bad job, maybe bringing unverifiable claims was the mistake here.
However It's really getting old. I see your point - my sources are bad because they are pro-russian, your sources are good because they are pro-ukrainian, no matter what is actually said.
I don't think there is a way I can convince you. It's akin to some witch hunt or something, like if I say I'm not a witch it is just I try to charm you with my magic or something.
Unfortunately, sir, you appear to be brainwashed beyond repair. My condolences.
> Wagner group, Russia's private mercenaries leading the charge in Bahkmut are run by neo Nazi's don't you
Don't know why you didn't mention Rusich as an obvious example of Nazis, but ok, let's say Wagner group is Nazi. So what? They are not part of official military forces of Russia, unlike Azov in Ukraine. Moreover such people in Russia are very much frowned upon to say the least, especially in by official soldiers. But hey, if they can help on the frontline without good people risking their lives, why not let them.
> The whole "we're saving them from the Nazi's" was a constructed lie to sell to the ignorant and reactionary
So the bombing of Donbas, Alley of angels, countless reports of Ukraine violating Minsk agreements, Ukrainian and European officials admitting Minsk agreements were a lie, cutting of civilian infrastructure, tortures, kidnappings, people loosing whole livelihoods for dreadful 8 years is lie. Seems legit.
> So the bombing of Donbas, Alley of angels, countless reports of Ukraine violating Minsk agreements, Ukrainian and European officials admitting Minsk agreements were a lie, cutting of civilian infrastructure, tortures, kidnappings, people loosing whole livelihoods for dreadful 8 years is lie.
It is. Nazis had a long list of manufactured complaints against Poland too to justify invasion, doesn't require much effort to make up stuff like this.
I advise you pay a visit to Donbas and talk to people there before claiming their suffering is a lie. Might clarify something in this conflict like it did for this wonderful lady: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0OysQ7yQl_o
> I advise you pay a visit to Donbas and talk to people there before claiming their suffering is a lie. Might clarify something in this conflict like it did for this wonderful lady: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0OysQ7yQl_o
A yes, looking at that guys channel he is totally not just spewing pro Russian propaganda.
And googling his name he doesn't seem super reliable.
Since when one propaganda is more reliable than the other propaganda? The source you are citing doesn't even pretend to be objective, the language they use is very polarizing, not mentioning the ad hominem the article is full of.
I tell what... instead of trying to appeal to authority (which is a fallacy of course), try looking at the information itself. We are all grown people, we can judge for ourselves what is bullshit and what's not, right?
The video was about a former anti-war anti-"russian-aggression" protester who visited Donbas which led to her reevaluation of the whole situation. Can you find any evidence of this being bullshit? Maybe she wasn't a protester, maybe she hasn't been to Donbas, maybe people she talked to were paid actors and graves in children playground are just fancy decorations for a twisted play? If you have proof go ahead and present it.
Your attempts at discrediting the source are ridiculous. Just because the boy cried "wolves" before with none to be seen, doesn't mean the wolves are not there this time around.
> I tell what... instead of trying to appeal to authority (which is a fallacy of course), try looking at the information itself. We are all grown people, we can judge for ourselves what is bullshit and what's not, right?
You literally tried to appeal to an authority yourself, but your authority is someone who unashamedly just pushes Russian propaganda.
But if you believe the fairy tails the Russians tell, like the Ukrainian black magic battalions, or the bio lab generated mutant super soldiers, or maybe its the Russian insistence they wouldn't invade then I don't even know what to say.
> Your attempts at discrediting the source are ridiculous. Just because the boy cried "wolves" before with none to be seen, doesn't mean the wolves are not there this time around.
Your source doesn't need discrediting because it has no credibility.
Because they are committing genocide against Ukraine, where they want to erase their people, culture and even their mentions in the history books.
So instead of just killing everyone (even they do that a lot too) it's more efficient to kidnap their children and brainwash, err I meant "re-educate" them.
38 comments
[ 2.2 ms ] story [ 95.9 ms ] threadHow can you possibly believe this is fake news?.
The main issue I have with this is that they present it like "evil Russians are kidnapping children", implying that they are better off dying in a warzone instead of getting actual education and a chance at life. This is very one-sided and politically engaged.
Maybe they are better off fleeing to Europe or safer cities in Ukraine and not being captured, forcibly deported, forcibly adopted to Russian families and 're-educated'.
Yeah, through the fricking frontline, through the same guys that shelled their cities for 9 years. Solid plan.
> captured, forcibly deported, forcibly adopted
Why forcibly? There is literally no evidence that any kind of force was ever used. I bet most of them are more than happy to leave the hellscape they lived in for so long because of Ukrainian government.
Ah yes much better they get taken by the army thats soldiers rape and torture civilians, including children in Ukraine.
> Why forcibly? There is literally no evidence that any kind of force was ever used. I bet most of them are more than happy to leave the hellscape they lived in for so long because of Ukrainian government.
Russia invaded, no one forced them too, this is all the fault of Russia and no one else.
Literally 0 evidence of this.
> Russia invaded, no one forced them too, this is all the fault of Russia and no one else.
Well, Ukraine started killing east Ukrainians, no one forced them to.
Maybe if the little green Russian FSB and GRU soldiers didn’t turn up Ukraine wouldn’t have had a reason to shell those areas.
> Literally 0 evidence of this.
The UN disagrees with you, they found credible claims of child rape and torture.
Not to mention the torture videos we have, but I’m sure you’ve got some line for the video we have of Russians castrating Ukrainian soldiers too.
Yet again, no evidence. You have to get your facts straight, good sir. And even if it was true, maybe if ukrainians did't overthow the goverment and replace it with neo-nazis, east ukrainians wouldn't want autonomy. Just sayin
> The UN disagrees with you, they found credible claims of child rape and torture.
why then they don't present it in any verifiable form to russia? Maybe it would help to prosecute such criminals. Just sayin.
European countries are interested in smearing Russia. Like they say Nord stream blow up is russias doing, like its famous russian entertainment to first build billion dollar pipelines and then destroy them for no reason.
Stop blindly believing everything on the internet. Use your brain goddamit.
> Not to mention the torture videos we have,
Yeah, surely there is NO VIDEOS OF UKRAINIAN SOILDERS TORTURING THEIR CAPTIVES BE IT RUSSIAN SODIERS OR THEIR OWN SUPPOSED TRAITORS.
> but I’m sure you’ve got some line for the video we have of Russians castrating Ukrainian soldiers too.
only such video i've seen is when ukrainians tortured one of their own (who was rumored to be a pdf-file or something like that idk) they tried to frame it like russians were torturing ukrainian soldier, but it can be clearly seen in the video that their russian dress-up is sloppy to say the least.
They're more evidence for the child rape accusations than any of the Russian claims. But you choose to believe one and not the other, I wonder why.
> And even if it was true, maybe if ukrainians did't overthow the goverment and replace it with neo-nazis, east ukrainians wouldn't want autonomy. Just sayin
So the Russians are allowed to invade and start a civil war because a government that didn't cow-tow to Russia constantly got into power?.
> why then they don't present it in any verifiable form to russia? Maybe it would help to prosecute such criminals. Just sayin.
Because Russia gives medals to the rapists, the torturers and the people who kill civilians so why would anyone bother.
> European countries are interested in smearing Russia. Like they say Nord stream blow up is russias doing, like its famous russian entertainment to first build billion dollar pipelines and then destroy them for no reason.
Russia has a lot of experience in blowing up pipelines, they have done it multiple times in the past, but as far as I know, no one government in Europe has come out and said who did it?.
> Stop blindly believing everything on the internet. Use your brain goddamit.
Stop blindly parroting Russian propaganda.
> only such video i've seen is when ukrainians tortured one of their own (who was rumored to be a pdf-file or something like that idk) they tried to frame it like russians were torturing ukrainian soldier, but it can be clearly seen in the video that their russian dress-up is sloppy to say the least.
A yes of course it's Ukrainains dressed up as Russians to blame for something. Not just the Russians being Russians.
This video was originally posted on a Pro Russian telegram, where the poster identified the person who was being castrated, and the person doing he castrating as Russian.
Why would a Pro Russian Telegram post that if it was fake.
quality over quantity.
> Russians are allowed
...to protect fellow russian speaking folks from the slaughter by neo-nazi regime.
And for starters, russia didn't start civil war, ukraine did when they started shelling donbas.
> Because Russia gives medals to the rapists, the torturers and the people who kill civilians so why would anyone bother.
Maybe they don't know these people are horrible criminals. If you have proof present it already and stop with the excuses.
> they have done it multiple times in the past
examples?
> Stop blindly parroting Russian propaganda.
Stop blindly parroting USA propaganda.
> Not just the Russians being Russians.
Oh, so you are a nazi. Could have said so from the start, maybe we'd avoid all this argument. You just hate russians.
> Why would a Pro Russian Telegram post that if it was fake.
There are a lot of posting going on rn. Most of it is bound to be fake. Can you for example give me one example of idk... Zelensky saying something that isn't utter bullshit.
Exactly, the quality of any evidence for Russians claim is nearly 0.
> ...to protect fellow russian speaking folks from the slaughter by neo-nazi regime.
Where's the quality evidence for any of this?, no that im expecting any, the 'neo-nazi' shtick is typical Russian propaganda.
> Maybe they don't know these people are horrible criminals. If you have proof present it already and stop with the excuses.
A yes, I forgot, Russia the country without access to the internet or other media. Theres plenty of evidence online and plenty of people have provided lots, Russia doesn't care.
> Stop blindly parroting USA propaganda.
The truth, is not propaganda, just because it makes Russia look bad does not mean it's false.
> Oh, so you are a nazi. Could have said so from the start, maybe we'd avoid all this argument. You just hate russians.
I don't hate Russians, but I do hate people who rape children and torture civilians, but I can see why it'd be easy to mix them up.
I am also confused about how not liking Russians would make a nazi, care to explain that train of thought for me?.
> There are a lot of posting going on rn. Most of it is bound to be fake. Can you for example give me one example of idk... Zelensky saying something that isn't utter bullshit.
So the Russians are posting fake news, that makes them look like there castrating a Ukrainian soldier, to their own telegram so that they can achieve what exactly?.
Yeah im sorry that makes literally no sense.
Far more likely its real, its just very inconvenient for you.
Baseless.
> Where's the quality evidence for any of this?
Proof of what? That Russia has the right to protect fellow Russians? Or are doubting the slaughtering part? If it's the latter it's ridiculous, cause even western media (if understated) but wrote about donbas shelling by Ukraine. Read some OSCE reports for example.
> A yes, I forgot, Russia the country without access to the internet or other media. Theres plenty of evidence online and plenty of people have provided lots, Russia doesn't care.
Ah yes, I forgot, the west bans all even slightly pro-russian outlets (in a very democratic way of course), that's why you didn't see any proof of Ukraine military commiting actual war crimes. But hey, I guess the west just doesn't care. They will fuel the conflict and they will "fight till the last Ukrainian".
> The truth, is not propaganda, just because it makes Russia look bad does not mean it's false.
I can call my position "the truth", what makes your "truth" better than my "truth", huh? Oh, yes, it doesn't paint the west in any negative connotation.
> but I can see why it'd be easy to mix them up.
Attaching negative traits to nation that is. It is alike saying "all [nation/race] are criminals", don't you see?
> I am also confused about how not liking Russians would make a nazi, care to explain that train of thought for me?
If you don't see how HATING ENTIRE NATION makes you a nazi, something is seriously with you.
> So the Russians are posting fake news, that makes them look like there castrating a Ukrainian soldier, to their own telegram so that they can achieve what exactly?.
Idk, as the tg admin who posted it (btw, if you believe tg channels you have no right to question my sources, lmao).
I saw Ukrainian blogger post video of him allegedly "eat a corpse of Russian soldier"(which is entirely fake). What was he trying to achieve? I also saw a video of Ukrainian woman "cutting throat of Russian soldier with a sickle" and saying something along the lines of "you are not welcome here", what was she trying to achieve?
I'll tell you what... intimidation. It's psychological warfare. Every side will try post something that is scary to the other. Doesn't matter if it's fake or not.
Great evidence you have there I see.
> Proof of what? That Russia has the right to protect fellow Russians? Or are doubting the slaughtering part? If it's the latter it's ridiculous, cause even western media (if understated) but wrote about donbas shelling by Ukraine. Read some OSCE reports for example.
The Donbas shelling by the Ukrainians, started after the totally not Russian soldiers appeared. You know the ones who were operating that BUK that shot down a passenger jet?.
> Ah yes, I forgot, the west bans all even slightly pro-russian outlets (in a very democratic way of course), that's why you didn't see any proof of Ukraine military commiting actual war crimes. But hey, I guess the west just doesn't care. They will fuel the conflict and they will "fight till the last Ukrainian".
I am free to read RIA and other Russian government run media outlets, so I not sure what you mean by this.
> I can call my position "the truth", what makes your "truth" better than my "truth", huh? Oh, yes, it doesn't paint the west in any negative connotation.
my truth is better because it's objectively true, where yours is trying to muddy the waters to further Russian agendas.
> Attaching negative traits to nation that is. It is alike saying "all [nation/race] are criminals", don't you see?
But the Russians are doing this because we have confessions and video evidence?.
> If you don't see how HATING ENTIRE NATION makes you a nazi, something is seriously with you.
It's not really about hating the entire nation, its more an expression but I can see why someone who doesn't have English as a first language would mistake that.
> Idk, as the tg admin who posted it (btw, if you believe tg channels you have no right to question my sources, lmao).
What sources, you haven't posted any?.
> I'll tell you what... intimidation. It's psychological warfare. Every side will try post something that is scary to the other. Doesn't matter if it's fake or not.
But why would they post a video of _UKRAINIANS_ castrating Ukrainians, claiming for it to be them?.
This still makes no sense.
Evidence of what? That you didn't present any evidence? That's kinda obvious. You just talk out of your ass.
> after the totally not Russian soldiers appeared.
Source? There were no Russian troops in Donbas until 2022. There were volunteers that happen to be Russian, because a lot of Russians have relatives in Donbas and stepped up to help. The was no official operation there.
> who were operating that BUK that shot down a passenger jet?
It's long been proven that passenger jet was shot by Ukrainians.
> I am free to read RIA and other Russian government run media outlets, so I not sure what you mean by this.
Maybe you are free to read them, but they will never appear in your feeds and seldom in search queries.
Google downranks Russian state media: https://www.yahoo.com/news/2017-11-23-google-will-downrank-r...
Even "pro-unfiltered search" DuckDuckGo downranks Russian media: https://winepressnews.com/2022/03/10/duck-duck-go-will-now-s...
YouTube bans Russian state funded channels globally: https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/youtube-block...
Pro-russian blogger Stas Ikakprosto had all his channels removed by YouTube with no explanation: https://m.vk.com/wall-147782201_594673&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiChen...
Previously "Goblin's" channels were removed in a similar fashion: https://thenewsdept.com/trending/132885.html
Even anti-Putin channel that was broadcasting in Russia for 12 years until they fled to Latvia was banned after merely 4 months of broadcast: https://sweden.postsen.com/news/59011/The-Putin-critical-TV-...
Cherry on top - Musk relevealed documents on twitters censorship: https://nypost.com/2022/12/02/elon-musk-releases-twitters-fi...
That's not all of course. That is just the stuff that wasn't that hard to find. Is that sufficient enough evidence for you?
Censorship on the west is even more severe than in Russia. Because in Russia you can at least use VPN to sidestep a block, but in the west they just remove your stuff or hide it so no one can ever find and read you. Either you are just ignorant or deliberately manipulative.
> my truth is better because it's objectively true, where yours is trying to muddy the waters to further Russian agendas.
So far you haven't presented any proof of your "objectively true truth", so shut the fuck up.
> But the Russians are doing this because we have confessions and video evidence?
Russians who? Russian cashier in a storefront? Russian factory workers? Russian engineers? Why tf you generalize 150 million people so carelessly? Criminals are everywhere. Would you be ok with me calling your entire nation criminals if I saw a video of one of you murdering s...
A yes volunteers that happen to be Russian, with Russian weapons, and Russian equipment funny that isn't it.
> It's long been proven that passenger jet was shot by Ukrainians.
There was literally a court case about this that just ended in the Hauge, findings where the Russians shot it down, but im sure you won't believe any of that evidence because it's inconvenient.
> So far you haven't presented any proof of your "objectively true truth", so shut the fuck up.
Theres no need to be rude, personal attacks against people are against the rules on hacker news.
If you cannot calmly state your views then maybe don't comment.
> Russians who? Russian cashier in a storefront? Russian factory workers? Russian engineers? Why tf you generalize 150 million people so carelessly? Criminals are everywhere. Would you be ok with me calling your entire nation criminals if I saw a video of one of you murdering someone?
Russian soldiers, have been seen on camera many times just straight out executing citizens, I mean im sure you'll find a way to justify a Russian tank deleting a vehicle in a town they where meant to be 'liberating'.
> This makes perfect sense. It's a statement along the lines of "see Ukrainians castrate Ukrainians, Russians don't castrate Ukrainians, so better give up and you'll be perfectly safe". Don't you get it?
But they posted it AS them castrating the Ukrainian, so once again this is just straight up mind blowingly stupid.
> What tf is this nonsense? Please elaborate.
The Russians have a reputation for kinda doing terrible things during wars so saying something like "it's just Russians being Russians" is not meant to be literally applied to every Russian but more to the situation.
Let me ask you this: is everyone who owns an American gun an American trooper?
> you won't believe any of that evidence because...
...you will never deliver it. This seems to be a reoccurring problem with you. I've already pointed out that you don't link your sources, and you keep talking out of your ass.
> Theres no need to be rude, personal attacks against people are against the rules on hacker news.
It's not a personal attack, my dear. Personal attack is an appeal to some quality of an opponent. There was none. I just told you, that if you can't back up your crazy "objectively true" claims then better keep them to yourself.
> Russian soldiers, have been seen on camera many times just straight out executing citizens, I mean im sure you'll find a way to justify a Russian tank deleting a vehicle in a town they where meant to be 'liberating'.
Ukrainian soldiers, have been seen on camera many times just straight out executing citizens, I mean im sure you'll find a way to justify a Ukrainian tank shooting at a school in a town they where meant to be 'liberating'.
> But they posted it AS them castrating the Ukrainian, so once again this is just straight up mind blowingly stupid.
It was just a theory. Since you haven't linked the source yet, I'm not aware of the whole context of this post. So yeah. Sources again.
> The Russians have a reputation for kinda doing terrible things during wars so saying something like "it's just Russians being Russians" is not meant to be literally applied to every Russian but more to the situation.
How exactly did they get such reputation? Ah, USA propaganda, alright. Ever since the cold war they were trying to smear reputation of USSR soilders, now they do the same shit to Russia. Let's take for example the "Bucha massacre".
Ukrainian trooper's posted horrifying pictures of bodies laying all over the street, they claim it's Russians who did it. ONE HOUR LATER western politicians already post shit like "WE KNOW THE TRUTH, ITS RUSSIA WHO DID IT". No investigation required. Ukraine can post ANYTHING, and they will happily accept it. Because it's convenient. Yet the Russian side was on the more rational side, actually trying to investigate stuff, a lot of people noticed that circumstances about this incident just didn't match up. But the west didn't care. And the amount of such cases is just too big now. It's much easier to produce bullshit than to disprove it.
But the fact is it's USA army who's known for atrocities during war. Like shit they did in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, and so and so on... They were ruthless. The amount of war crimes committed by them just in 21st century probably exceeds all of humanity previously. Their officials singing in a cheery voice shit like "bomb bomb bomb Iran".
Why don't you talk shit about them? Ah, they were bombing brown people, they probably are worth less to you.
When they are operating an American Patriot missile system they just might be.
> Ukrainian soldiers, have been seen on camera many times just straight out executing citizens, I mean im sure you'll find a way to justify a Ukrainian tank shooting at a school in a town they where meant to be 'liberating'.
Okay show me some evidence that isn't from some Russian propagandist site. It also doesn't at all excuse the Russian crimes, but if you want to think that Ukrainians doing bad stuff justify Russians raping children go for it I guess.
> It was just a theory. Since you haven't linked the source yet, I'm not aware of the whole context of this post. So yeah. Sources again.
A theory with no credibility either.
> How exactly did they get such reputation? Ah, USA propaganda, alright. Ever since the cold war they were trying to smear reputation of USSR soilders, now they do the same shit to Russia. Let's take for example the "Bucha massacre".
Ah yes, I keep forgetting its all USA propaganda everything that Russia has every done thats terrible, even if its caught in 4k, with an admission on camera its all 'fake news propaganda'.
> But the fact is it's USA army who's known for atrocities during war. Like shit they did in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, and so and so on... They were ruthless. The amount of war crimes committed by them just in 21st century probably exceeds all of humanity previously. Their officials singing in a cheery voice shit like "bomb bomb bomb Iran".
> Why don't you talk shit about them? Ah, they were bombing brown people, they probably are worth less to you.
The Americans did terrible things in a large number of countries in the 21st and 20th century and should have never entered a large number if not all the wars they where in.
But this whataboutism doesn't stop the fact that Russian troops, torture and rape civilians and commit other horrendous warcrimes in Ukraine.
I just admitted America did terrible things.
Now why don't you admit that Russia should get out of Ukraine and stop committing all the war crimes they seem endlessly commit.
Your response will no doubt be laden with claims about it all being fake news and you will somehow justify all of the heinous acts they commit.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/05/rape-allegations-again... https://www.naturalnews.com/2022-06-02-ukraine-fires-human-r... https://waronfakes.com/common/fake-russian-soldiers-are-rapi...
> Okay show me some evidence that isn't from some Russian propagandist site.
Though I don't fully get what defines "propagandist site", but ok, I'll try:
https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/osce-reports-reveal-ukraine-s... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/31/ukraine-land... https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/04/a-ukrainian-tochka-u-m... https://tass.com/emergencies/1434847 https://beyondhighbrow.com/2022/03/29/ukrainians-torturing-p... https://www.sott.net/article/293871-Ukraine-war-crimes-repor...
See? Ukraine does some fucked up shit too. Didn't you know about it?
> A theory with no credibility either.
You gave me nothing to work with aside from "I saw it in some pro-russian tg channel", I could come up with dozens of similar shit from pro-ukrainian channels.
> caught in 4k, with an admission on camera its all 'fake news propaganda'.
Link the video then.
> Russia should get out of Ukraine
They will. Once the goals of special operation are achieved. Leaving right now is not an option. Leaving right now means losing. It means that abandoning people who waited so long for Russia to protect them. If Russia leaves now all of them will be in danger. So the only option is to fight until victorious end.
And Russia will win. Whether you like it or not. All the NATO is doing is prolonging the suffering of both Ukraine and Russia, while also making some buck.
> and stop committing all the war crimes they seem endlessly commit.
yeah, "seem". And don't get me wrong. I'm not denying that probably some of this war crime allegations are probably true, but it's over the top what the west claims. Ukraine is also guilty with evidence, but the west seems hesitant to talk about it, and maybe some of this is fake, but now it's too early to decide. The nature of the situation in Ukraine rn doesn't accommodate for real thorough investigation. Plus the information warfare going on, and Russian propaganda machine sucks compared to NATO's. Every side tries to smear the other, and it's really hard to tell what's true and what's a lie.
This argument is kinda getting old. I'm tired of talking in circles. I'm tired of trying to educate you that it's not so...
Let's do this.
> https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/05/rape-allegations-again...
What is this even? this is a random post on a random website that literally just spews out pro Russian propaganda nearly constantly.
> https://www.naturalnews.com/2022-06-02-ukraine-fires-human-r...
> Natural News (formerly NewsTarget, which is now a separate sister site) is a far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience, disinformation, and far-right extremism.[1][9] The website began publishing articles in 2008 and is based in the United States.[1][6]
> https://waronfakes.com/common/fake-russian-soldiers-are-rapi...
https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-war-how-a-fact-checking-websit...
Funny that all your sources appear to spread misinformation and disinformation, do you have any sources that are mainstream or have any credibility?.
> Though I don't fully get what defines "propagandist site", but ok, I'll try: https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/osce-reports-reveal-ukraine-s... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/31/ukraine-land... https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/04/a-ukrainian-tochka-u-m... https://tass.com/emergencies/1434847 https://beyondhighbrow.com/2022/03/29/ukrainians-torturing-p... https://www.sott.net/article/293871-Ukraine-war-crimes-repor...
> https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/osce-reports-reveal-ukraine-s...
A random sub stack? that really tries to stretch thin and misrepresented the bare information it has? the best so far I guess.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/31/ukraine-land...
Nasty mines, and they probably shouldn't be using them.
> <...
> More Ukrainian civilians have died in a single year than in the entire war in the Donbas but okay.
Btw don't you find it sus, that western media claims that Ukraine was at war with Russia since 2014, but yet when Russia actually started military action they started dying like flys? Maybe there were not fighting Russian military in the first place.
> The goals of the SMO are to rape, torture and terrorise Ukraine into to be subservient to the new faschist state that proudly flies there Z like a swastika.
First of, fakes again.
Second, let's not mention the literal swastika in Azov battalion emblem, it's not convenient :)
Third, their greeting "Glory to Ukraine! Glory to heroes!" was literally made up by Nazi collaborators.
> perpetuating hate towards the people committing war crimes in Ukraine against Ukrainians.
Vladimir Zelensky should be the first one on your list.
Do you seriously believe some random website with no sources?, ngl, sounds like you have no real sources so you're trying to pass off the drug addled fever dream of some random internet users as "media".
> They are all paid for by interested third parties.
Like how Russia appears to be paying a whole bunch of people and websites online to spread pro Russian propaganda, or 'ask questions' via there firehose of falsehood propaganda model?.
> Sorry to break it to you, but nowadays only place you can find actual truth is in garbage undeground media, unfortunately, and the others you'll just call "propaganda outlets". Call me conspiracy theorist but that's just the reality we live in.
A yes the only place we can find "actual truth" is from the guy being paid by the Internet Research Agency and other Russian troll factories, everything else is "fake".
> Btw don't you find it sus, that western media claims that Ukraine was at war with Russia since 2014, but yet when Russia actually started military action they started dying like flys? Maybe there were not fighting Russian military in the first place.
It was a frozen conflict previously, like Russias frozen conflicts in multiple other post soviet states eventually they turn into a sort of stalemate and not much happens.
How can you be surprised that theres more deaths when a country literally invades on all fronts after having a static front for years?.
> First of, fakes again.
Ah yes once again back to that Russian classic "everything that paints Russia poorly is fake".
> Second, let's not mention the literal swastika in Azov battalion emblem, it's not convenient :)
Let's not mention the literal swastiskas all over tonnes of Russian soldiers and the multiple Nazi PMC's Russia is actively using in Ukraine, its not convenient is it?.
Neither is that famous castration video.
https://news.yahoo.com/horrifying-footage-appears-to-show-ru...
This idiot was later identified on RT, so im sure it's a "Ukrainian fake".
> Third, their greeting "Glory to Ukraine! Glory to heroes!" was literally made up by Nazi collaborators.
The phrase is from the 1917, in the Ukrainian war of independence from the USSR but nice try.
> Vladimir Zelensky should be the first one on your list.
Nah I think its the army actively raping and torturing citizens (including children) that should be top of my list.
Nice try, but no sources have verified the authenticity of the video. And I should congratulate you - you started actually linking sources, good job! Or perhaps bad job, maybe bringing unverifiable claims was the mistake here.
However It's really getting old. I see your point - my sources are bad because they are pro-russian, your sources are good because they are pro-ukrainian, no matter what is actually said.
I don't think there is a way I can convince you. It's akin to some witch hunt or something, like if I say I'm not a witch it is just I try to charm you with my magic or something.
Unfortunately, sir, you appear to be brainwashed beyond repair. My condolences.
The whole "we're saving them from the Nazi's" was a constructed lie to sell to the ignorant and reactionary
Don't know why you didn't mention Rusich as an obvious example of Nazis, but ok, let's say Wagner group is Nazi. So what? They are not part of official military forces of Russia, unlike Azov in Ukraine. Moreover such people in Russia are very much frowned upon to say the least, especially in by official soldiers. But hey, if they can help on the frontline without good people risking their lives, why not let them.
> The whole "we're saving them from the Nazi's" was a constructed lie to sell to the ignorant and reactionary
So the bombing of Donbas, Alley of angels, countless reports of Ukraine violating Minsk agreements, Ukrainian and European officials admitting Minsk agreements were a lie, cutting of civilian infrastructure, tortures, kidnappings, people loosing whole livelihoods for dreadful 8 years is lie. Seems legit.
It is. Nazis had a long list of manufactured complaints against Poland too to justify invasion, doesn't require much effort to make up stuff like this.
A yes, looking at that guys channel he is totally not just spewing pro Russian propaganda.
And googling his name he doesn't seem super reliable.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/florida-fugitive-john-mark-dou...
I tell what... instead of trying to appeal to authority (which is a fallacy of course), try looking at the information itself. We are all grown people, we can judge for ourselves what is bullshit and what's not, right?
The video was about a former anti-war anti-"russian-aggression" protester who visited Donbas which led to her reevaluation of the whole situation. Can you find any evidence of this being bullshit? Maybe she wasn't a protester, maybe she hasn't been to Donbas, maybe people she talked to were paid actors and graves in children playground are just fancy decorations for a twisted play? If you have proof go ahead and present it.
Your attempts at discrediting the source are ridiculous. Just because the boy cried "wolves" before with none to be seen, doesn't mean the wolves are not there this time around.
You literally tried to appeal to an authority yourself, but your authority is someone who unashamedly just pushes Russian propaganda.
But if you believe the fairy tails the Russians tell, like the Ukrainian black magic battalions, or the bio lab generated mutant super soldiers, or maybe its the Russian insistence they wouldn't invade then I don't even know what to say.
> Your attempts at discrediting the source are ridiculous. Just because the boy cried "wolves" before with none to be seen, doesn't mean the wolves are not there this time around.
Your source doesn't need discrediting because it has no credibility.
Because they are committing genocide against Ukraine, where they want to erase their people, culture and even their mentions in the history books.
So instead of just killing everyone (even they do that a lot too) it's more efficient to kidnap their children and brainwash, err I meant "re-educate" them.