Is it? The only source they cite for the claim of price-gouging is a group that's against large scale animal production and GMOs. They've got their own reasons to make the accusation. Honestly, it's probably true, but then they discuss meat production where there are definitely some illegal trust activities going on and say that that group has not seen the same increase in prices.
Do we not remember the last time avian flu hit the country's egg production hard? The price of eggs jumped massively. Once you identify avian flu in a flock the size that these facilities house, you're talking thousands or tens of thousands of chickens culled. A battery chicken lays an egg a day. That's thousands of eggs not being produced every day until those hens can be replaced. Add in inflation and I'm going to need to see some actual numbers if the author's going to claim that those factors aren't enough to explain the price jump.
They also somehow missed a valid argument against factory farms. All of those birds packed into terrible conditions in massive numbers basically guarantees a massive culling of livestock every time the risk of avian flu is high. More numerous, smaller facilities where the animals aren't stressed out and in incredibly close proximity would mean that a single housing facility becoming infected would lead to fewer animals culled if a facility is exposed. It would be a much, much smaller impact on the market. The price of eggs would be higher than our current supply during healthy years, but wouldn't spike by 100% during high risk years.
Something, something, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Or hens in a single, massive building.
Where in the article does it mention chicken meat? I see pork, beef, and prepared foods.
Excess profits can be caused by any number of things. If the price of the eggs increased exactly enough to match inflation and loss from avian influenza, but there was also increased efficiency from new processing techniques and equipment, that's profit. If they managed to pay their workers even less than they pay in a normal year by citing increased company costs, then they pocket that too. Again, you'd need to see actual numbers and not casual conjecture to make any real calls as to what's happening in this situation.
> If the price of the eggs increased exactly enough to match inflation and loss from avian influenza, but there was also increased efficiency from new processing techniques and equipment, that's profit
What-if speculation with zero evidence—what new technology?—-is what I would call low quality.
The article at least uses industry players and other related industries to underscore their point. Which is that an investigation may be coming and is warranted.
It's like $9 for a dozen eggs at Target in the bay area now. You can still get a good deal at Costco, but yeah, it's super expensive. What's the normal price of eggs in Korea?
I'm in the central valley and Target has a dozen eggs for $3.59. I was curious how it could be so much more in the bay area, but looking up an East Bay Target they're $3.59. San Francisco is $4.59. Maybe you haven't been in a while?
Wow, now you are making me want to drive around and double check! Distinctly remember seeing a dozen eggs for at least 8 if not $9 at target in alameda a month or two ago. Am sure all the cheaper store brand eggs had sold out and was probably looking at free range eggs. And the price could have come down since then too. And everything's expensive in alameda. Glad to hear it!
We keep a small flock of backyard hens. Our feed prices went up by about 50%, but that was negligible for us given the retail price of eggs and how little commercial feed we buy.
I think many homes would benefit from even a few birds, which can be fed almost exclusively from table scraps. It’s a win/win. Chickens compost for you and keep the food from going in a landfill, and you get eggs.
While it may be anecdotal, what you are sharing is really compelling, as feed in my (rural) area hasn't noticeably increased.
This is the gist of what I see in a lot of sectors - there's price seeking happening. I'm finding going to the local restaurant supply store, prices are still what I would expect for the things I buy. Those same items are 3x at the national brand grocery stores. That tells me it's not about supply and demand or you'd see price increases universally, rather than only at those stores that are gouging their customers to see if they can get away with it.
People have noticed the disconnect between restaurant prices and grocery store prices. I have no idea who is increasing prices more than their suppliers have increased prices.
"Grocery prices grew by 11.4 per cent year-over-year in January ... according to the latest data released by Statistics Canada."
"The latest inflation data indicated food purchased from restaurants rose 8.2 per cent in January compared with the same month last year — up half a percentage point from December."
"Restaurant prices are also elevated, but they have risen at a slower pace. The cost of food at restaurants and other vendors is up 5.8%, compared to food from grocery stores or supermarkets, which shot up nearly 10% from November 2021 to August 2022, Wells Fargo analysts noted in a report."
and not just table scraps, you can give them all kinds of stuff growing in the garden, even some weeds. or have some cabbage that didn't work out, give it to chickens etc.
sadly, there are so many HOAs that crack down on this kind of stuff and don't want people to be self sufficient.
But if you keep chickens, be sure to harden against rats. In my town, they're considering making it illegal to keep chickens because people are careless about chicken feed. All the additional easy-to-access food has caused the rat population to explode into a real problem.
We have a metal feeder that the hens have been trained to stand on to open.
We're also experimenting with fermenting their feed, which should stretch it about 20% further. For that I dump a cup of it out in the morning, so no issue with rats.
I would be interested in a breakdown of your savings vs. your expenses and labor time on chicken raising.
I just ran a very generous estimate and I would shocked if your savings at peak egg price are more than $4 per labor hour. To get to that number I assumed $5 per dozen at the grocery store, five chickens at your house, an enormous production and consumption of eggs, very cheap overhead, and only thirty minutes a day of chicken care and harvesting.
Few households can benefit from a $4 an hour second job. Great hobby if you're doing well, of course, but a really bad use of finite time for anybody else. Let alone how few people have the land.
Also worth considering is the taste difference. Having raised chickens and eaten the eggs, they taste worlds better than store bought. I found that intangible to be worth something in the economical calculation.
I have a flock of chickens and yes this is true, the eggs taste much better.
I assume this translates into increased nutritional quality. A partially free range diet with plenty of grass and insects and some good supplementation helps.
The security of a consistent supply is nice. Eggs are just there. Enough to share most of the year. No need to remember or pick them up at the store which is another (minor) effort that should be taken into account in comparing cost/effort.
The setup is a bit expensive. I find the whole thing entirely worth it though. If you do it right the eggs are night and day different from store eggs.
You're grossly overestimating the time it takes to raise hens.
I also don't think anyone is doing it because they think they can compete on prices with an industrial farm that keeps all of the hens locked up in a 2x2 foot battery cage their entire lives.
My hens are happy, they forage for bugs all day long (creating those delicious, dark-yellow yolks high in omega-3s), and gladly consume all of my excess food waste which would otherwise go into a landfill.
I only have 7 chickens and 3 ducks. I open the coop in the morning, takes 1-2 minutes. I collect eggs in the evening and close up coop, takes 2-3 minutes. Maybe add another 5 minutes for changing water or throwing some hay in coop. That’s a typical day, in the winter in the Midwest. Easier in summer and spring. Space wise, really don’t need much at all. A small backyard can support them easily.
Also, great sense of sastifaction, great job for my kids, and I like being just a tiny bit more self reliant.
I’m comfortable investing this amount of time, not sure I could use it more productively. Obviously this equation will be different for different folks but my point is barrier to entry is very low. It’s why poor people in Latin America grow chickens, easy and cheap to do and gets you eggs and meat.
Guess I’m reminded of a Simpson episode where the old grandpa is complaining someone stole his limited time from him and then says “never mind, I wasn’t going to do anything else with it anyways.”
Edit: I was reminded below of another benefit. They control pests and eat ticks.
I did this.
Automated the open/close of the door based on sunrise/sunset.
Large water container, with automated heat tape for cold weather.
Large food container built into the wall that I only fill monthly.
Automated heat tape in the egg box where they roll out, so they don't freeze.
Fan in the window that turns on when its hot inside the coop.
Automated light in the coop that turns on morning/evening.
I raise a small flock as well. I always joke that my eggs cost about $100/dozen. With the number of raccoons, foxes and hawks roaming near my property, I've had to invest a couple thousand of dollars in electric fencing, hawk netting and coop materials like hardware cloth or my chickens would quickly disappear.
Do you have problems with the smell and poop? We have a medium sized backyard, and I would like to get chickens by my wife isn't sure about the smell and poop ending up everywhere (we have a 3yo). Are there other birds that are better than chickens in this regard?
Lots of companies playing on two fronts to maximise their earnings.
On one side they try to excuse not giving raises, laying of employees.
On the other side they use it to increase their prices.
This would be fine if not for the fact they usually actually increase, not decrease their margins.
General public is inept financially and does not understand we are being lied to.
Even assuming there exists an economic downturn (which I do not believe there genuinely is one), it is not fine to complain about it when all you do is shift all the costs to the next person.
I think current situation can be best explain as a series of excuses going viral between corporate C level execs. "They did what?! I guess if they got scott-free... what's stopping us from doing it?"
Humans are great at responding to situations they're in the middle of, and awful at doing anything about problems a few layers of abstraction above their everyday life. Corporations have departments to get around this problem, the average person doesn't.
"I don't understand why you buy eggs at seven cents a piece in Malta and sell them for five cents."
"I do it to make a profit."
"But how can you make a profit? You lose two cents an egg."
"But I make a profit of three and a quarter cents an egg by selling them at four and a quarter cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for seven cents an egg. Of course, I don't make the profit. The syndicate makes the profit. And everybody has a share."
Yossarian felt he was beginning to understand. "And the people you sell the eggs to at four and a quarter cents a piece make a profit of two and three quarter cents a piece when they sell them back to you at seven cents a piece. Is that right? Why don't you sell the eggs directly to you and eliminate the people you buy them from?"
"Because I am the people I buy them from," Milo explained. "I make a profit of three and a quarter cents a piece when I sell them to me and a profit of two and three quarter cents apiece when I buy them back from me. That's a total profit of six cents an egg. I lose only two cents an egg when I sell them to the mess halls at five cents apiece, and that's how I can make a profit buying eggs for seven cents apiece and selling them for five cents apiece. I pay only one cent a piece at the hen when I buy them in Sicily."
"In Malta," Yossarian corrected. "You buy your eggs in Malta, not Sicily."
Milo chortled proudly. "I don't buy eggs from Malta," he confessed... "I buy them in Sicily at one cent apiece and transfer them to Malta secretly at four and a half cents apiece in order to get the price of eggs up to seven cents when people come to Malta looking for them."
Meanwhile in Switzerland, you'll pay at least $6 for a dozen eggs.
While I think it's an interesting economic indicator, does it matter that mich (if you consider eggs you eat as eggs, nor within another product)? Most people I know don't each that much eggs that they couldn't pay with 1-coffee-less-per-week.
It's explained mostly by the lack of competition in grocery stores. Not to mention that Albertsons & Kroger are trying to merge. If this is the case there will be essentially 2 grocery stores owning almost every other grocery store in the country.
Walmart, Kroger (Harris Teeter), Costco, Target, Aldi, Lidl, Food Lion. Those are the places within 15 minutes of me where I've bought eggs recently (or at least the ones that come to mind).
I agree that monopolies are bad, but the grandparent listed 7 stores, and all are owned by different companies. I am similarly in an area where I can count at least 12 different grocery store parent companies, two of which are local and not in the big list in your first link.
Maybe the monopolization is only happening in certain areas?
Yeah I get those are the concerns. I guess I’m trying to find evidence that will impact the “majority of the people.” One article [1] mentions that the combined company would still have less grocery market share than Walmart (which has just over 1/5th of the market), and the pie charts shown for some sample markets still don’t look anything like a monopoly situation to me.
Yes, but these don’t actually address the points I mentioned. Your stance has migrated from “majority of people” to “monopolies are bad” (not that I disagree with that point)!
I've actually been trying to find the source about the percentage of people and may be misremembering the specifics, tbh. Listen to the podcast link I provided, it might be there. This will no doubt disproportionately impact people in rural areas and people already impacted by food deserts.
For example, I live within a few minutes drive of a QFC (Kroger) and an Albertsons, and a Safeway. If they merge, there will be 0 competition outside of a Walmart and you know how that goes...
If you get into who owns the products we consume it's even worse, this is a study that looks at a bit of both the distribution at grocery stores as well as who owns and manufacturers the food products we consume: https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11...
Large egg producers create bird flu panic, send regulators after small competitors. Small farms take the USDA insurance payout by torching their farms. Large egg farms profit increases 10x [1].
There's a lot of processed food that uses eggs. Most of it tastes like sawdust and sugar anyway. I highly doubt the eggs and milk are necessary. Perhaps they would be cheaper if we stopped using them for stuff that doesn't need them.
But then again, I don't even remember the last time I bought eggs so I'm not exactly the best informed.
66 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 64.2 ms ] threadDo we not remember the last time avian flu hit the country's egg production hard? The price of eggs jumped massively. Once you identify avian flu in a flock the size that these facilities house, you're talking thousands or tens of thousands of chickens culled. A battery chicken lays an egg a day. That's thousands of eggs not being produced every day until those hens can be replaced. Add in inflation and I'm going to need to see some actual numbers if the author's going to claim that those factors aren't enough to explain the price jump.
They also somehow missed a valid argument against factory farms. All of those birds packed into terrible conditions in massive numbers basically guarantees a massive culling of livestock every time the risk of avian flu is high. More numerous, smaller facilities where the animals aren't stressed out and in incredibly close proximity would mean that a single housing facility becoming infected would lead to fewer animals culled if a facility is exposed. It would be a much, much smaller impact on the market. The price of eggs would be higher than our current supply during healthy years, but wouldn't spike by 100% during high risk years.
Something, something, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Or hens in a single, massive building.
- Inflation, which can’t explain the price rise; as beef and chicken (meat) did not increase at the same rate.
- Excess profits earned compared to earlier quarters; also difficult to explain if the company in question faced a massive loss.
How is this not relevant?
Excess profits can be caused by any number of things. If the price of the eggs increased exactly enough to match inflation and loss from avian influenza, but there was also increased efficiency from new processing techniques and equipment, that's profit. If they managed to pay their workers even less than they pay in a normal year by citing increased company costs, then they pocket that too. Again, you'd need to see actual numbers and not casual conjecture to make any real calls as to what's happening in this situation.
> If the price of the eggs increased exactly enough to match inflation and loss from avian influenza, but there was also increased efficiency from new processing techniques and equipment, that's profit
What-if speculation with zero evidence—what new technology?—-is what I would call low quality.
The article at least uses industry players and other related industries to underscore their point. Which is that an investigation may be coming and is warranted.
I think many homes would benefit from even a few birds, which can be fed almost exclusively from table scraps. It’s a win/win. Chickens compost for you and keep the food from going in a landfill, and you get eggs.
This is the gist of what I see in a lot of sectors - there's price seeking happening. I'm finding going to the local restaurant supply store, prices are still what I would expect for the things I buy. Those same items are 3x at the national brand grocery stores. That tells me it's not about supply and demand or you'd see price increases universally, rather than only at those stores that are gouging their customers to see if they can get away with it.
for Canada, from https://ottawa.citynews.ca/national-business/canadians-makin...:
"Grocery prices grew by 11.4 per cent year-over-year in January ... according to the latest data released by Statistics Canada."
"The latest inflation data indicated food purchased from restaurants rose 8.2 per cent in January compared with the same month last year — up half a percentage point from December."
for USA, from https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thanksgiving-restaurant-inflati...:
"Restaurant prices are also elevated, but they have risen at a slower pace. The cost of food at restaurants and other vendors is up 5.8%, compared to food from grocery stores or supermarkets, which shot up nearly 10% from November 2021 to August 2022, Wells Fargo analysts noted in a report."
sadly, there are so many HOAs that crack down on this kind of stuff and don't want people to be self sufficient.
We're also experimenting with fermenting their feed, which should stretch it about 20% further. For that I dump a cup of it out in the morning, so no issue with rats.
https://foodly.tn/tips/do-rats-taste-good/
I just ran a very generous estimate and I would shocked if your savings at peak egg price are more than $4 per labor hour. To get to that number I assumed $5 per dozen at the grocery store, five chickens at your house, an enormous production and consumption of eggs, very cheap overhead, and only thirty minutes a day of chicken care and harvesting.
Few households can benefit from a $4 an hour second job. Great hobby if you're doing well, of course, but a really bad use of finite time for anybody else. Let alone how few people have the land.
I assume this translates into increased nutritional quality. A partially free range diet with plenty of grass and insects and some good supplementation helps.
The security of a consistent supply is nice. Eggs are just there. Enough to share most of the year. No need to remember or pick them up at the store which is another (minor) effort that should be taken into account in comparing cost/effort.
The setup is a bit expensive. I find the whole thing entirely worth it though. If you do it right the eggs are night and day different from store eggs.
I also don't think anyone is doing it because they think they can compete on prices with an industrial farm that keeps all of the hens locked up in a 2x2 foot battery cage their entire lives.
My hens are happy, they forage for bugs all day long (creating those delicious, dark-yellow yolks high in omega-3s), and gladly consume all of my excess food waste which would otherwise go into a landfill.
Also, great sense of sastifaction, great job for my kids, and I like being just a tiny bit more self reliant.
I’m comfortable investing this amount of time, not sure I could use it more productively. Obviously this equation will be different for different folks but my point is barrier to entry is very low. It’s why poor people in Latin America grow chickens, easy and cheap to do and gets you eggs and meat.
Guess I’m reminded of a Simpson episode where the old grandpa is complaining someone stole his limited time from him and then says “never mind, I wasn’t going to do anything else with it anyways.”
Edit: I was reminded below of another benefit. They control pests and eat ticks.
But I heard others have only seen a 6% change?
Unless I missed it in a one page article.
This is just click-bait without the annoying pop-ups.
The Economist has a slant to be sure, but its usually higher quality than this. Sounds like there's a deeper motive to this article.
On one side they try to excuse not giving raises, laying of employees.
On the other side they use it to increase their prices.
This would be fine if not for the fact they usually actually increase, not decrease their margins.
General public is inept financially and does not understand we are being lied to.
Even assuming there exists an economic downturn (which I do not believe there genuinely is one), it is not fine to complain about it when all you do is shift all the costs to the next person.
I think current situation can be best explain as a series of excuses going viral between corporate C level execs. "They did what?! I guess if they got scott-free... what's stopping us from doing it?"
But past that, the only reason that this behaviour is getting a pass is because people are being very passive in fighting it.
That will only last so long.
While I think it's an interesting economic indicator, does it matter that mich (if you consider eggs you eat as eggs, nor within another product)? Most people I know don't each that much eggs that they couldn't pay with 1-coffee-less-per-week.
Welcome to hell.
What are you talking about?
* Start here: https://grocerystory.coop/who-owns-your-grocery-store
* https://www.fastcompany.com/90797301/kroger-albertsons-deal-...
* https://progressive.org/op-eds/grocery-store-monopolies-are-...
* https://westseattleblog.com/2022/10/supermarket-mega-merger-...
Understand now?
Maybe the monopolization is only happening in certain areas?
[1] https://www.grocerydive.com/news/how-the-kroger-albertsons-m...
https://www.vox.com/money/23641875/food-grocery-inflation-pr...
Thank you for the links though.
For example, I live within a few minutes drive of a QFC (Kroger) and an Albertsons, and a Safeway. If they merge, there will be 0 competition outside of a Walmart and you know how that goes...
If you get into who owns the products we consume it's even worse, this is a study that looks at a bit of both the distribution at grocery stores as well as who owns and manufacturers the food products we consume: https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11...
It's...not great.
https://www.grocerydive.com/news/heres-what-to-know-about-th...
https://www.grocerydive.com/news/how-would-the-kroger-albert...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/12/us-supermark...
...they too have risen.
[1] https://calmainefoods.gcs-web.com/static-files/b0cebe03-d49f...
But then again, I don't even remember the last time I bought eggs so I'm not exactly the best informed.