Ask HN: Time to Leave the US?

Warning, there are many issues in other countries as well. Cost of living for example in major Canadian cities, others are limited job opportunities, lower pay for same work when compared to the US. What I recommend are two things: 1. definitely travel more, and actual live in a place instead of only visiting, you'll get a feel of what people's mental states are. Also how you feel about the new place. 2. Condense every factor into an economic value system so you can compare apple to apples. For example, chances of accidental death by gun will probably have infinite high weights, vs. interest rates, house prices to income ratio etc. (I believe even if you live in an US city you can still convert the solution to some issues to moentory value, such as hiring security guards 24/7 etc.)

Thinking about this as well, especially as a parent. Dropping off my kids at school each day has become a major source of anxiety.

I don't have any advice, but you could checkout /r/amerexit [1] on reddit. Lots of info, resources, and people willing to help there.

Best of luck to you, and hope to hear what decision you land on.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/

I don't live in the US, but this op-ed is also interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/next-us-civil-...

well the first obvious issue is...you need to be able to obtain some kind of immigration status wherever you want to move, so you can't just pick a fantasy destination and hop on a plane

you could also just relocate in the US...figure out what is important to you and do some analysis on how different places stack up

finally, be careful about letting daily events direct your life strategy too much

also be realistic about life in other countries...I grew up near Toronto and can say with certainty it is no longer the zero-crime/very-clean stereotype many Americans believe...you just don't hear much about Canadian cities on US news but they also have serious crime now

If you think Canada is the answer then let me stop you right there. Canada's problems are only increasing and while there are no school shootings there are stabbings and homeless problems are increasing everyday along with not a lot of competition so high prices for everything, rising house prices, rising grocery prices and lastly, healthcare is completely falling apart with no access to healthcare for months or years unless it is a complete emergency.

"Talk me off the ledge"

I don't get this. Do what you think is best for yourself and your family. What difference does it make what strangers on the internet think?

Hey! You know what they say, the grass always seems greener on the other side.

It sounds like you've got a lot on your plate right now, and I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through a tough time. It's natural to feel overwhelmed and anxious in such situations.

Have you thought about talking to a professional about your concerns? You can easily access online consultations with psychologists through platforms like BetterHelp, or even visit one in person.

It's true that the world is a bit crazy these days, and it's not just the U.S. While it's normal to feel like hitting the panic button, remember that every place has its own set of challenges.

We could chat about moving countries, like taxes, immigration, logistics, and job markets, but that won't address your immediate concerns. Realistically, it's unlikely you can just move to another country permanently.

This seems more like a life challenge than just a relocating issue. Having a professional listen to you and provide feedback could be really helpful, as they're equipped to handle these kinds of situations, unlike the HN crowd including me.

If you want to leave, and you have the money and privilege to be able to afford the risk, go for it. More power to you.

The US is full of safe, pleasant communities, excellent for raising families, though not necessarily near tech work places. Look outside the coastal bubbles and explore a bit. I'm very happy living in a place shunned by erstwhile colleagues in the ivory heights.

I've also lived decades in East Asia, and there are cases to be made for life in provincial South Korea, Japan, and Thailand -- among other places -- but practical considerations of work and visa status play a role in such decisions.

I left several decades ago. It took me ~2 years to learn a new language, and ~5 years to feel at home in a new culture. The upside is I got far more political change (esp wrt violence and health care) than I expect will ever happen back in the US during my actuarial lifetime.

I'm absolutely not saying the US health care is good, but assuming you're a tech worker on a good salary the US health system is probably the best in the world.

For comparison I live in the UK where we have universal health care. If you're on a good salary, you'll probably be paying about $7,000 - $10,000 a year in tax for health care. Around $3,000 - $6,000 in income tax, then maybe another $4,000 from various other taxes such as the living in a house tax, the driving a car tax, the watching a TV tax, and the buying stuff at the supermarket tax.

For your $7,000 - $10,000 you'll basically get the worst health care imaginable for a developed country, but it's "free" at the point of service so we still get to act smug when talking to Americans.

I've used the NHS twice in the last decade. One time I was in agony from an ear infection and was told I'd have wait three months to see an ENT. Thankfully I was only in agony for another month before the infection clear up on its own.

The other time I had fatty liver disease, although this wasn't diagnosed by the NHS because despite visiting them in pain three times over the course of a year they refused to run any tests because in their opinion I was probably fine, and on the third time the doctor outright accused me of wasting his time. Given that abdominal pain obviously isn't normal I got private testing done and found out I had fairly advanced fatty liver disease due to being homozygous for the PNPLA3 I148M variant.

On top of this I know two people who died of cancer in the last three years. One was just 29 years old. She went to the doctor for about a year complaining of pains and vaginal bleeding. They kept turning her away and saying she was fine. When they finally ran tests they diagnosed her with stage 3 cervical cancer and she died a few weeks later. In my opinion had she had lived in the US it's very likely she would still be alive.

You need to do what makes sense to you, but you might want to play devil's advocate first and look at the downside of living elsewhere plus the upside to living here.

I was a military wife for a couple of decades. I used to look up natural disasters for different places, trying to find someplace to move that had none. Turns out it's a case of pick your poison. You can't escape natural disasters, but you can decide whether you prefer hurricanes or tornados or earthquakes as your primary risk.

You could mitigate some of the risks you know of here in the US, such as homeschooling your kids to avoid school violence.

There's some truth to the idea of "better the devil you know." Other places will also have problems and you may be caught flat footed because you simply don't know what they are nor how to best mitigate them.

Grass is always greener.

Every single country has their issues. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Personally, despite our issues (which are quite serious, as you've outlined), we are still the richest, free-est and most intelligent country in the world with unrivaled soft and hard global hegemony. Everyone everywhere tries to claw their way in because the American Dream™ of going from nothing to an excellent, comfortable quality of life is still very much achievable, perhaps even more so with the Internet being how it is.

I'd recommend living in other countries and forming your own opinion though.