This is a great idea! Often when doing work for clients I've wanted to show them something more than just the finished PSD. They've hit upon the idea that with design the through process is often as important as the final result. Pixelapse will definitely will help me extract more value from my time.
We think LayerVault is great and they're doing some stuff that's similar to us. There's a few things we're doing differently.
When we first came up with this idea, we really needed a good way to comment & annotate and keep all that feedback inline instead of it spilling over into email. The second is that we provide an easy way to diff revisions side by side or overlay them to see what has actually changed. Behind the scenes, we actually work quite differently from LayerVault, particularly on large files. I'd love to talk to you more to see how we can help you. Please email me shravan@pixelapse.com.
My informal testing reveals people think it’s “pixel apps” or “pick slaps”. I’m guessing the creators don’t have “dark” (velarised) L in their dialect, because it’s a lot clearer when pronounced with a non-velarised L.
Thanks for the kind words, Andrew. I'm not sure if you found it but you can compare multiple revisions side by side and also overlay revisions to see what's changed.
It took me awhile to find it, because in FF 10 on Windows, the X|Y button is showing up as an FL (it looks like it might be a sprite issue? the buttons on the bottom have the same problem) but once I found it, I liked it a lot.
For some reason we have a real problem hanging on to previous design iterations and we often want to go back and try incorporating things from previous iterations. This is going to be really cool, especially for distributed teams.
Is this only for Photoshop? What about Fireworks or Illustrator?
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Hey dsawler, Pixelapse works with Fireworks and Illustrator as well & we're looking to add new formats. Is there a format in particular you'd like to see?
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I've been thinking about how a GitHub for designers would work. This doesn't quite seem like "it" to me. Don't take that remark the wrong way, I like what's been done here. It's well designed and I could see a use for it.
But that's just it, I have to find a use for it. It isn't immediately obvious to me. I'm not the typical designer as I don't have clients and my job isn't 100% design but I have been designing everything from packaging, to print advertisements, to websites for ten years. I don't know why I would use this. If I need alternate versions of files I just save them with version numbers. The poor man's version control. But I don't need anything more than that - do other designers?
The power of Github I believe is that it allows programmers to share their work with their colleagues, learn from others, and work together with others.
I like Dribbble because it allows designers to do what they want to do with their colleagues. Show off their work and get inspiration from other designers. To me, Dribbble is the closest thing to a Github for designers.
What's missing from Dribbble is the collaborative part. Coders working with coders, designers with designers. But that's the problem. Coders have to work with other coders all the time it's the nature of the beast. Designers do not in the same way. In my experience.
So if it's not designers with designers then it's designers with coders. And a place for those who (like me) both design and code to both showcase our work and to work together with others. If you could turn this into a Dribbble + Github I think that would be interesting.
> If I need alternate versions of files I just save them with version numbers.
As a designer/programmer, I completely agree.
As a programmer, the idea of saving multiple copies of a file with different versions numbers just sounds awful.
But when designing in photoshop, theres rarely a need for a full version control system since I usually only have 5-6 PSDs of each iteration per design (or logos/sites/etc) and at that scale its easily manageable.
If version control was built into photoshop, it would be nice but the important thing is its not a need I have and I wouldn't necessarily seek this type of product out.
* But when designing in photoshop, theres rarely a need for a full version control system since I usually only have 5-6 PSDs of each iteration per design (or logos/sites/etc) and at that scale its easily manageable.*
I feel like the word "version" means completely separate things to a programmer talking about (d)vcs and to a designer talking about mockups. To a programmer, version control is more likely to mean revisions of the same file as it evolves and is changed. To a designer, a version is a distinct mockup that represents a new look.
(Sure, a programmer may rewrite something, and a designer will tweak something. But, even then. Different words are used to describe what took place.)
Thanks for your feedback! We've talked to a few designers and it seems like everyone has a slightly different workflow. There are definitely people who manually save different files as you do and some more hardcore designer/developers who use git to manage versioning. We think there's a middle ground in between where you don't have to think about versioning and it just happens in the background.
We've hidden it in the demo but we've baked in collaboration as well. You can create a group for your team or even show it off publicly, a bit like Dribbble. The benefit of using Pixelapse is that you can learn how a design was created from start to finish. Like you said, not all designers necessarily work with other designers, but there's definitely collaboration and conversations with managers or developers or other stakeholders who may not be design/tech savvy. We want to save you from the cycle of exporting the psd, emailing the copy to a bunch of people, getting feedback and having to repeat as you incorporate the feedback. We're still thinking about different ways to expand and move forward and doing a Dribbble + Github may well be where we ultimately end up. :)
The functionality that you've outlined in your second paragraph wasn't obvious to me and I'd be interested in hearing more about that. I've been considering using GitHub:FI (I think it's called something else now) for a while now and their image diffs are helping to swing me in that direction. My first reaction to your service was that it was a nicer version of that without the rest of GitHub and I assume a designer friendly upload interface.
Sounds like you're aiming at teams and small ad agencies? Is that correct? I do like the idea of being able to share the versions as it progresses with other stakeholders. That is valuable. I didn't grep that from the demo. Admittedly I didn't poke around too much, I spent a few minutes on the site.
Is this for web design teams or mostly traditional media teams (Packaging, branding, print)? If the former, how do the developers work with it? If the latter, I like the functionality you've described.
I apologize if these questions and my critiques are too early in your dev cycle, I realize that you just released this (And it does look well polished!). I really just have an interest in this space and would like to see something work for my needs.
Your feedback is great! Our initial goal is to focus on web design teams because that's what we have the most experience with. As a designer, I can share a permalink either to a particular revision or all the revisions with a developer and he can pull the assets and incorporate them back into the codebase. We don't have too much experience with traditional media teams so we're not sure how the workflow is different but we'd love to learn more. Please email me: shravan@pixelapse.com and I'd be happy to chat more.
Man, this space is filling up so fast. We're working on a similar product, we're funded and a little further along (shameless plug: http://www.revisu.com). When we started working on this, there was no one in this space. Now there are a ton of offerings!
I think you hit the nail on the head with regard to what designers need from version control. We bill ourselves as Dribbble + Github for creative teams exactly for the reasons you describe.
I would really like to find out what revisu does and how it works without signing up. An intro video would be ideal, or at least a much more detailed feature list and screenshot walk-through.
Thanks for the advice. We've been fortunate that we've had a huge user base to test with initially, so we haven't put very much work in to our public-facing stuff. More to come on this...
Ah good to know, while it looks like a web app I didn't see any mention about it (did I miss it?)
But then another question arises, that means I have to go there and upload the new version?
I've been somewhat involved with the development of http://halftoneapp.com - they focus on collaboration amongst team members and getting feedback from clients.
Clever of them to show a custom welcome message for Hacker News visitors. I love how it jumps you right into a demo app with no login or registration steps.
The functionality and usefulness of this service is fantastic, but I wonder how hard it would be for github itself to compete; they've shown that they can do simpler binary versioning and comparison with PNG/JPEG images, so all they'd have to do is add support for previewing PSD files as well. Whether that's a simple thing to support is not something I'm qualified to answer though :)
I think psd versioning is outside of github's core competency. We've used distributed version control for design files, and it really doesnt support a natural workflow. Background syncing just seems much more natural as a solution to the problem since the files tend to be very large, and are compounded by rapid generation and disposal of many many versions.
Another issue that might be how integrated the version control system could be into the graphics app. Github will never aim to integrate itself deeply into Photoshop, so designers would be forced to visit a browser to see changes.
Something like OS X Lion's file versioning system might actually be perfect for this.
I think you might be onto something here. However I'd focus heavily on the designers who don't know github. Because hackers 'round here are going to tell you to just use github, because it make so much sense for them.
Hey Michael, We only store the differences between subsequent saves so the actual impact on bandwidth & storage is pretty small. We're still playing around with pricing but there will be a free tier with more options depending on the space used.
Thanks for the reply Shravan, that's awesome to know. Definitely sounds very promising, I'm looking forward to seeing the subscription plans when yous are ready.
I went into the demo expecting more of reapplication of git workflow (with some sort of staging area equivalent) for design, but after playing around with the demo it's clear the combination of auto-saving and milestones is both simpler and more elegant. Amazing work guys!
So...as an indirect competitor...let me just say...well done. This is pretty awesome!
This is something I have thought about doing for a while, but to be honest, I never had the technical chops to do it at the time.
Sure, parts of this still needs polishing - got some quirky JS issues with the comparison of the two images side by side in Chrome on Windows.
But you guys have done and awesome, awesome job!
Edit: Btw, this is the quirky issue I encountered - http://i.imgur.com/MOY9c.png To replicate this, in Chrome on Windows 7, click on the 'X Y' side by side icon and then just try scrolling the images up and down, or side to side, and then moving the mouse. It moves the entire DOM element.
Oh cool, just last week got the same intent to do this, after someone mentioned layervault.com in the comments.
Version controlling for design is great but if you want to differentiate from layervault or pixelnovel.com then you should try and see if designers would collaborate in an opensource fashion, ala github. (I am really curious about this, as that's the real reason people use github AFAICT)
So I would go and add some social aspect for it, make it a bit more like dribbble, behance, flickr (portfolios, inspiration) as these are the sites that designers use.
Also adding stockphoto/illustration selling and job board features would probably make for the best designer platform ever. (not mentioning the business options...)
And after this feature suggesting madness, I would like to point out that if you want to keep this simple and stupid, then still please get a designer and work on the ux.
84 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 164 ms ] threadWhen we first came up with this idea, we really needed a good way to comment & annotate and keep all that feedback inline instead of it spilling over into email. The second is that we provide an easy way to diff revisions side by side or overlay them to see what has actually changed. Behind the scenes, we actually work quite differently from LayerVault, particularly on large files. I'd love to talk to you more to see how we can help you. Please email me shravan@pixelapse.com.
Try and chose a 2 syllable or a less tongue twisting name.
I think the only thing that you lose here is access to an actual "diff", but visually, you get most of it.
Grats on a fantastic achievement.
Someone was working on a .js PSD file parser, which may be of interest down the line but it was in early stages.
Great product, I love the idea. Well done.
When I click for an invitation, I get an Application Error (An error occurred in the application and your page could not be served. Please try again in a few moments.
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Re: the app error. We underestimated the load on the site. :) We just scaled up so if you refresh and try again, you should be able to sign up.
But that's just it, I have to find a use for it. It isn't immediately obvious to me. I'm not the typical designer as I don't have clients and my job isn't 100% design but I have been designing everything from packaging, to print advertisements, to websites for ten years. I don't know why I would use this. If I need alternate versions of files I just save them with version numbers. The poor man's version control. But I don't need anything more than that - do other designers?
The power of Github I believe is that it allows programmers to share their work with their colleagues, learn from others, and work together with others.
I like Dribbble because it allows designers to do what they want to do with their colleagues. Show off their work and get inspiration from other designers. To me, Dribbble is the closest thing to a Github for designers.
What's missing from Dribbble is the collaborative part. Coders working with coders, designers with designers. But that's the problem. Coders have to work with other coders all the time it's the nature of the beast. Designers do not in the same way. In my experience.
So if it's not designers with designers then it's designers with coders. And a place for those who (like me) both design and code to both showcase our work and to work together with others. If you could turn this into a Dribbble + Github I think that would be interesting.
As a designer/programmer, I completely agree.
As a programmer, the idea of saving multiple copies of a file with different versions numbers just sounds awful.
But when designing in photoshop, theres rarely a need for a full version control system since I usually only have 5-6 PSDs of each iteration per design (or logos/sites/etc) and at that scale its easily manageable.
If version control was built into photoshop, it would be nice but the important thing is its not a need I have and I wouldn't necessarily seek this type of product out.
I feel like the word "version" means completely separate things to a programmer talking about (d)vcs and to a designer talking about mockups. To a programmer, version control is more likely to mean revisions of the same file as it evolves and is changed. To a designer, a version is a distinct mockup that represents a new look.
(Sure, a programmer may rewrite something, and a designer will tweak something. But, even then. Different words are used to describe what took place.)
Thanks for your feedback! We've talked to a few designers and it seems like everyone has a slightly different workflow. There are definitely people who manually save different files as you do and some more hardcore designer/developers who use git to manage versioning. We think there's a middle ground in between where you don't have to think about versioning and it just happens in the background.
We've hidden it in the demo but we've baked in collaboration as well. You can create a group for your team or even show it off publicly, a bit like Dribbble. The benefit of using Pixelapse is that you can learn how a design was created from start to finish. Like you said, not all designers necessarily work with other designers, but there's definitely collaboration and conversations with managers or developers or other stakeholders who may not be design/tech savvy. We want to save you from the cycle of exporting the psd, emailing the copy to a bunch of people, getting feedback and having to repeat as you incorporate the feedback. We're still thinking about different ways to expand and move forward and doing a Dribbble + Github may well be where we ultimately end up. :)
Sounds like you're aiming at teams and small ad agencies? Is that correct? I do like the idea of being able to share the versions as it progresses with other stakeholders. That is valuable. I didn't grep that from the demo. Admittedly I didn't poke around too much, I spent a few minutes on the site.
Is this for web design teams or mostly traditional media teams (Packaging, branding, print)? If the former, how do the developers work with it? If the latter, I like the functionality you've described.
I apologize if these questions and my critiques are too early in your dev cycle, I realize that you just released this (And it does look well polished!). I really just have an interest in this space and would like to see something work for my needs.
I think you hit the nail on the head with regard to what designers need from version control. We bill ourselves as Dribbble + Github for creative teams exactly for the reasons you describe.
I would really like to find out what revisu does and how it works without signing up. An intro video would be ideal, or at least a much more detailed feature list and screenshot walk-through.
Congrats on a sharp looking launch, Pixelapse!
The functionality and usefulness of this service is fantastic, but I wonder how hard it would be for github itself to compete; they've shown that they can do simpler binary versioning and comparison with PNG/JPEG images, so all they'd have to do is add support for previewing PSD files as well. Whether that's a simple thing to support is not something I'm qualified to answer though :)
Another issue that might be how integrated the version control system could be into the graphics app. Github will never aim to integrate itself deeply into Photoshop, so designers would be forced to visit a browser to see changes.
Something like OS X Lion's file versioning system might actually be perfect for this.
Are the full files for each revision saved? Or have you developed a way to store only the differences?
With large PSD files, the former could get expensive quickly, which makes me wonder the same thing as ARolek asked, what will pricing be based on?
Also, really neat concept overall. Can't wait to try it!
This is something I have thought about doing for a while, but to be honest, I never had the technical chops to do it at the time.
Sure, parts of this still needs polishing - got some quirky JS issues with the comparison of the two images side by side in Chrome on Windows.
But you guys have done and awesome, awesome job!
Edit: Btw, this is the quirky issue I encountered - http://i.imgur.com/MOY9c.png To replicate this, in Chrome on Windows 7, click on the 'X Y' side by side icon and then just try scrolling the images up and down, or side to side, and then moving the mouse. It moves the entire DOM element.
Congrats on the launch.
Version controlling for design is great but if you want to differentiate from layervault or pixelnovel.com then you should try and see if designers would collaborate in an opensource fashion, ala github. (I am really curious about this, as that's the real reason people use github AFAICT) So I would go and add some social aspect for it, make it a bit more like dribbble, behance, flickr (portfolios, inspiration) as these are the sites that designers use. Also adding stockphoto/illustration selling and job board features would probably make for the best designer platform ever. (not mentioning the business options...)
And after this feature suggesting madness, I would like to point out that if you want to keep this simple and stupid, then still please get a designer and work on the ux.
Keep up the good work!