Tim sits on the board of Tsinghua's Business School. Tim takes any and every chance he gets to cozy up to The Party. The Party promises to make Apple's operations in China go smoothly and unmolested....of course the operationally-obsessed CEO is going to take them up on the offer.
They're a Chinese company operating under the guise of an American corporation. Not sure Steve would be too upset either, were he still around - his shares would be been worth an absurd amount of money today.
I get that China is an important market, and an important manufacturing hub....that also has some crazy market-access rules that are a tad ethically dubious no matter what way you look at it. But where is the line drawn?
Tim also is surprisingly silent on countries that "mine data on the details of people's lives"...except his own, where he's been more than willing to take part in the privacy debate.
Tim Cook was also the winner of the Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights’ 2015 Ripple of Hope Award for “his lifelong commitment to human rights." Apple for its part has been one of most ardent defenders of China's persecution of the Uighers in Xinjiang.
Sadly, this is lost on a lot of people. I think that because Cook is gay that people think he's automatically a huge defender of human rights. After all, someone who grew up gay in the deep south would know a thing or two about persecution and a thing or two about growing up as an outsider in your own community. Once could even argue that through his donations in the US to LGBTTTQQIAP+ charities and his personal political stances, as well as Apple's commitment to minorities in its own workforce, yeah, that's fair. I'd include their marketing department's pandering, but that's marketing - they're supposed to pander regardless.
However, Tim's actions in China kinda spit in the face of all that. Shit, even Tim's own community (the gay community) in China faces a fair amount of persecution, and Tim's certainly been silent on that.
If we can't get our corporate behemoths to reinforce our country's views and ideals, we're no better than the CCP, who can and do get to do just that.
> If we can't get our corporate behemoths to reinforce our country's views and ideals, we're no better than the CCP, who can and do get to do just that.
Precisely.
America's FAANG corporations have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that they cannot be trusted to conduct free and fair business on their own terms. Everyone is complicit, and Hacker News loves to fight tooth and nail to pretend like Apple isn't one of them. Go figure, though - Apple has been in the CCP's lap for decades, it should come as no surprise that they rely on China to be profitable. Now we all shift uncomfortably thinking about the iPhone in our pocket as a vehicle for human oppression and intersectional industrial cruelty.
And of course, the Clarion Call response to this point: "Just get an Android phone then!"
I have one. And frankly, it kinda sucks. It was manufactured in Vietnam, presumably with similarly low standards-of-living to China. It was designed to compete with an iPhone, and I'm worse off because of it. Everyone is worse off for it, and Apple still leads the market in hardware margins since they're just so close with China. Sorta seems like the US is propping up Apple because we think it's worth the tax dollars, but ignoring where those dollars and goodwill get spent.
Being gay myself, I avoid casting it in a "persecution mindset" light in the first place. Tim Cook's behavior is wrong and contradicts his shallow veneer of caring about people and standing up for human rights. He can wax sophistry about protecting the gays once he takes down the Foxconn suicide nets and gives the Chinese people the "human rights" he so adamantly provides to other countries.
Thumbs up for having the gut to even write that out in plain English. Lots of Americans seems to ignore all of that as long as he is on the "correct" side of the political spectrum.
well, Jobs’ family which inherited everything is alive and you can see their net worth in real time as it mostly consists of publicly traded Apple and Disney stock. Their fortune ranks like top 20 in the world or something. pretty sure his wife and kids are happy about how the business did.
I'd rephrase it as "Apple is stuck in an abusive relationship in China". They would love to have some flexibility but options are pretty bleak. They tried to manufacture in the states more than once and ran into difficulties. They're trying to manufacture in India and running into problems there too.
This is before considering the sales within China which they must maintain to keep growth. There are no simple solutions here. The long term work is to restore some manufacturing outside of China but this is much harder than just setting up a factory as it requires the entire ecosystem of factories, ores, education, training, etc. With automation this might be doable but will probably take at least a decade of investment. A lot of it from the government which is the only body that can do that. Unfortunately, because bipartisanship is dead it's impossible for any side to carry out that required long-term investment in the market.
>> They're trying to manufacture in India and running into problems there too. <<
Apple could always learn from others:
"Samsung Is a Case Study in How Manufacturers Leave China"
Company still has significant operations in China but its smartphone manufacturing business pulled up stakes years ago, May 3, 2023, WSJ.
I agree. That's part of why my current phone is a Samsung. It's still a huge challenge. Also South Korea is better equipped for this as dealing with China is easier there. So if they need specific ores or plants they can get them from China at a relatively low cost. The same isn't true for the US.
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[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 47.6 ms ] threadThey're a Chinese company operating under the guise of an American corporation. Not sure Steve would be too upset either, were he still around - his shares would be been worth an absurd amount of money today.
I get that China is an important market, and an important manufacturing hub....that also has some crazy market-access rules that are a tad ethically dubious no matter what way you look at it. But where is the line drawn?
We know the official take from the CEO:
"Tim Cook, Apple's CEO, criticized companies that “mine data on the details of people's lives”" - https://www.infobae.com/en/2022/04/13/tim-cook-apples-ceo-cr...
But it seems the company ethics align with countries borders...
"Censorship, Surveillance and Profits: A Hard Bargain for Apple in China" - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...
Ironic.
However, Tim's actions in China kinda spit in the face of all that. Shit, even Tim's own community (the gay community) in China faces a fair amount of persecution, and Tim's certainly been silent on that.
If we can't get our corporate behemoths to reinforce our country's views and ideals, we're no better than the CCP, who can and do get to do just that.
Precisely.
America's FAANG corporations have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that they cannot be trusted to conduct free and fair business on their own terms. Everyone is complicit, and Hacker News loves to fight tooth and nail to pretend like Apple isn't one of them. Go figure, though - Apple has been in the CCP's lap for decades, it should come as no surprise that they rely on China to be profitable. Now we all shift uncomfortably thinking about the iPhone in our pocket as a vehicle for human oppression and intersectional industrial cruelty.
And of course, the Clarion Call response to this point: "Just get an Android phone then!"
I have one. And frankly, it kinda sucks. It was manufactured in Vietnam, presumably with similarly low standards-of-living to China. It was designed to compete with an iPhone, and I'm worse off because of it. Everyone is worse off for it, and Apple still leads the market in hardware margins since they're just so close with China. Sorta seems like the US is propping up Apple because we think it's worth the tax dollars, but ignoring where those dollars and goodwill get spent.
Being gay myself, I avoid casting it in a "persecution mindset" light in the first place. Tim Cook's behavior is wrong and contradicts his shallow veneer of caring about people and standing up for human rights. He can wax sophistry about protecting the gays once he takes down the Foxconn suicide nets and gives the Chinese people the "human rights" he so adamantly provides to other countries.
The moment they claims themselves to be so righteous ( even surpassed Google ) and the defender of Fundamental Human Right.
Scary times ahead
This is before considering the sales within China which they must maintain to keep growth. There are no simple solutions here. The long term work is to restore some manufacturing outside of China but this is much harder than just setting up a factory as it requires the entire ecosystem of factories, ores, education, training, etc. With automation this might be doable but will probably take at least a decade of investment. A lot of it from the government which is the only body that can do that. Unfortunately, because bipartisanship is dead it's impossible for any side to carry out that required long-term investment in the market.
Apple could always learn from others:
"Samsung Is a Case Study in How Manufacturers Leave China" Company still has significant operations in China but its smartphone manufacturing business pulled up stakes years ago, May 3, 2023, WSJ.