Technically, it could fly as an argument for (involuntary) manslaughter versus murder, certainly if one replaces “into the crowd” by “over the heads of the crowd”, or if the crowd isn’t very crowdy, and there’s evidence that the shooter explicitly tried shooting through the crowd without hitting anybody, say as part of an act.
The typical “into the crowd” implies that the shooter knew it was almost certain to hit somebody, though, so I don’t think any judge or jury would put much weight into such an argument.
Yes, but the actual evidence isn't there... this article would be easy to fake for clicks/youtube views, and much cheaper, safer, and easier than actually doing the stunt described. Maybe the article would be enough to get a warrant to collect the data, but I'll bet they destroyed all of the data/evidence before uploading the article, and (as another poster mentioned) waited until after the statute of limitations to post it.
It seems to me that there is really a lot of media out there bragging about committing past crimes, and profiting from it. I don't think it's a good thing, but for whatever reason clearly people are able to do that without repercussions.
This reminds me of the California law banning the use of rap lyrics as evidence in crimes. Much of popular rap music is directly bragging about committing specific crimes and getting away with it, yet those people remain free, and make a lot of money off of it.
Just to clarify, I am trying to make sense of the fact that they seem to have brazenly posted the details of committing a major crime. Given all of the planning and care they seem to have taken, there must be some angle there that makes them think they cannot be caught for this.
- Two datestamped photos in start and finish.
- Unbroken video feed from two cameras.
- A speed stat tracker
- A third party black box GPS tracker.
- Plus circumstantial evidence created during the event.
Not incl. the scouts, helpers, people around, witnesses, etc.
These are things they claim to have, but aren't actually provided. I would be willing to bet this evidence doesn't really exist anymore, or would be impossible to obtain by prosecutors.
"In the words of Brock Yates: “When Dan (Gurney) and I got to the Portofino, we agreed that the part of the Cannonball which we were proudest about was the fact that we had bothered no one—we hadn’t jeopardized the safety of anyone, including ourselves. We had driven very fast, but we had driven cleanly, efficiently, and safely.”"
That refers to a 1979 cannonball run, by the originator, who (according to the article) thought up this illegal race to prove that highway speed limits were out of date.
Your phrasing suggests it applies to this run, a run made during covid lockdowns (ie, much lighter traffic than usual) in order to get the run record back.
There is a difference between "these speed limits are too low, let's prove it's safe to go faster" and "someone else broke our record? Let's claw it back now that conditions are favourable".
This is such a childlike understanding of safety and jeopardy. It's like when the five year old turns back to you after doing something you told them not to saying "see it didn't break!"
You can't post like this here, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. We ban accounts that do, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
Edit: you've been posting a lot of ideological battle comments and flamebait to HN, unfortunately. That's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for, and we therefore ban accounts that do this regardless of which ideology they're battling for.
I'm not going to ban you right now because (a) it doesn't quite look like the majority of your comments (at least not if I squint generously) and (b) we haven't warned you before. But if you'd please correct this and use HN in the intended spirit going forward, we'd be grateful.
Any time these are announced it's usually a year and a day after. Statute of limitations is a year for speeding in most of the us. They can be investigated, but not charged. These lads are not idiots. Check out apex: the secret road race across america (film) or 32 hours 7 min (film) to see the prep these guys get up to. Also, VINwiki on YouTube has some story's about it too.
IIRC they rely on keeping the runs a secret until statues of limitations expire. There should be, if not already, some laws about public endangerment which don't expire. Then they're own documentation will be evidence against them.
> we hadn’t jeopardized the safety of anyone, including ourselves
I love the Cannonball, I respect the history, but that is bullshit. You can do what you want but at least be self-aware.
Speed may not often cause an accident, but it will be the difference between a bad accident and a fatal one. That is what speed limits are about. Reducing the impact of an accident probably caused by something else. Also realise that amongst the cohort of "people driving" that something else is inevitable, not chance. It is always happening to someone, just perhaps not you that day. If we all drove 160mph road tolls would skyrocket.
You can bring up the autobahn if you like, or the red centre in Australia, but neither of those remotely resemble an American intetstate or the driving culture of the states. The red centre also has a speed limit now.
> f we all drove 160mph road tolls would skyrocket.
You can bring up the autobahn if you like
Okay, I will. 99% of autobahn traffic I have seen drives 200kmph or less. 160 mph is 257.5 kmph - a quarter more than 99% of autobahn traffic.
200 kmph is fast if it's busy, and most cars can't go significantly beyond that. Aiming for 260 is dangerous for folks driving 200, let alone those driving 100 (yes, that is not an uncommon speed - also not in the unrestricted areas).
I'd love to see the stats on median speed on the autobahn, time of day.
Most people are just trying to get from A to B without any drama, the drama increases significantly as you approach 200. I suspect the median is closer to 160...
And then there is the construction that always put a crimp in things.
I was born in Germany and have lived there off and on for several years.
I've also lived all over the US. It's my general impression that the "typical" speed on unrestricted stretches of the autobahn and long, flat, rural, stretches of the US interstate system are roughly the same.
It's cool to see M5s and Fiat Alhambras (lol) zooming past at the rev limiter but most people get up to 85mph/136kph and chill out.
Germans love their campers so half the vehicles on the roads are towing caravans and going slowly anyways.
psa: if you are an enthusiast i would highly recommend going to germany to drive on the autobahn at least once before you die or it gets a speed limit. you don't even have to drive fast, half the fun is seeing how incredibly fast other people are going in minivans and tiny hatchbacks or whatever. and of course the super expensive cars.
Most people just do 120-140kph and call it a day. Of course, there are some fast cars overtaking everybody. You will have to pay more attention to surroundings even when driving 160+ since a Bugatti passing with 250kph will be near you just after you see it in your rearview mirror.
> You will have to pay more attention to surroundings
Largely you don’t. You just have to avoid driving like a North American by staying in the right-most lanes unless passing.
Germany isn’t different in that you’re responsible for not hitting what’s in front of you. If you’re on a 2-lane highway and go into the passing lane at 150 to pass the car going 120, for the Bugatti popping up going 250 approaching that manoeuvre, tough, it’s gotta slow down for the 150 vehicle (which will go back in front of the 120 vehicle once the pass is completed because Europe).
Meanwhile in USA/Canada, I’ve seen vehicles going under the speed-limit immediately head for the “fast-lane” right from the on-ramp with absolutely nothing ahead of them to warrant that.
Maybe they drive safer, but when something out of their control happens they're dead with such speeds. Also, I don't see how you can be an optimal functioning driver after sixty hours behind the wheel.
Reading the comments, I see so many frustrated people.
The cannonball teams aren't weaving traffic at 160. They are using scanners, binoculars and multiple pairs of eyes to map out moves before taking them, attempting to get through sticky situations quickly and safely and making up time in open stretches. This is arguably a safer driving strategy than what most soccer moms employ.
You all should try a 'cannonball lite' sometime. When you take a road trip, see how far ahead of an initial Google Maps transit estimate you can get. It is pretty eye opening (and will pretty quickly sell you on the concept of auxiliary gas tanks).
yea. this. Also, check out the films i mentioned previously (apex: the secret road race across America (tt8792630) or 32 hours 7 min (tt1329299)) both of which show exactly how much prep is required to do this.
34 comments
[ 0.24 ms ] story [ 81.7 ms ] threadShooting with a gun into a crowd carries a prison sentence. This should too.
doesn’t fly either
The typical “into the crowd” implies that the shooter knew it was almost certain to hit somebody, though, so I don’t think any judge or jury would put much weight into such an argument.
It seems to me that there is really a lot of media out there bragging about committing past crimes, and profiting from it. I don't think it's a good thing, but for whatever reason clearly people are able to do that without repercussions.
This reminds me of the California law banning the use of rap lyrics as evidence in crimes. Much of popular rap music is directly bragging about committing specific crimes and getting away with it, yet those people remain free, and make a lot of money off of it.
"In the words of Brock Yates: “When Dan (Gurney) and I got to the Portofino, we agreed that the part of the Cannonball which we were proudest about was the fact that we had bothered no one—we hadn’t jeopardized the safety of anyone, including ourselves. We had driven very fast, but we had driven cleanly, efficiently, and safely.”"
There is a difference between "these speed limits are too low, let's prove it's safe to go faster" and "someone else broke our record? Let's claw it back now that conditions are favourable".
Edit: you've been posting a lot of ideological battle comments and flamebait to HN, unfortunately. That's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for, and we therefore ban accounts that do this regardless of which ideology they're battling for.
I'm not going to ban you right now because (a) it doesn't quite look like the majority of your comments (at least not if I squint generously) and (b) we haven't warned you before. But if you'd please correct this and use HN in the intended spirit going forward, we'd be grateful.
Chernobyl was safe until it wasn't for example. Same for Ford Pinto, or Tesla AutoPilot.
I love the Cannonball, I respect the history, but that is bullshit. You can do what you want but at least be self-aware.
Speed may not often cause an accident, but it will be the difference between a bad accident and a fatal one. That is what speed limits are about. Reducing the impact of an accident probably caused by something else. Also realise that amongst the cohort of "people driving" that something else is inevitable, not chance. It is always happening to someone, just perhaps not you that day. If we all drove 160mph road tolls would skyrocket.
You can bring up the autobahn if you like, or the red centre in Australia, but neither of those remotely resemble an American intetstate or the driving culture of the states. The red centre also has a speed limit now.
Okay, I will. 99% of autobahn traffic I have seen drives 200kmph or less. 160 mph is 257.5 kmph - a quarter more than 99% of autobahn traffic.
200 kmph is fast if it's busy, and most cars can't go significantly beyond that. Aiming for 260 is dangerous for folks driving 200, let alone those driving 100 (yes, that is not an uncommon speed - also not in the unrestricted areas).
In other words: bonkers by autobahn standards.
Most people are just trying to get from A to B without any drama, the drama increases significantly as you approach 200. I suspect the median is closer to 160...
And then there is the construction that always put a crimp in things.
I've also lived all over the US. It's my general impression that the "typical" speed on unrestricted stretches of the autobahn and long, flat, rural, stretches of the US interstate system are roughly the same.
It's cool to see M5s and Fiat Alhambras (lol) zooming past at the rev limiter but most people get up to 85mph/136kph and chill out.
Germans love their campers so half the vehicles on the roads are towing caravans and going slowly anyways.
Largely you don’t. You just have to avoid driving like a North American by staying in the right-most lanes unless passing.
Germany isn’t different in that you’re responsible for not hitting what’s in front of you. If you’re on a 2-lane highway and go into the passing lane at 150 to pass the car going 120, for the Bugatti popping up going 250 approaching that manoeuvre, tough, it’s gotta slow down for the 150 vehicle (which will go back in front of the 120 vehicle once the pass is completed because Europe).
Meanwhile in USA/Canada, I’ve seen vehicles going under the speed-limit immediately head for the “fast-lane” right from the on-ramp with absolutely nothing ahead of them to warrant that.
As for safety, I think these folks are safer drivers than many I see on our highways staring at their phones.
The cannonball teams aren't weaving traffic at 160. They are using scanners, binoculars and multiple pairs of eyes to map out moves before taking them, attempting to get through sticky situations quickly and safely and making up time in open stretches. This is arguably a safer driving strategy than what most soccer moms employ.
You all should try a 'cannonball lite' sometime. When you take a road trip, see how far ahead of an initial Google Maps transit estimate you can get. It is pretty eye opening (and will pretty quickly sell you on the concept of auxiliary gas tanks).