Ask HN: Have you taken 6 months to 1 year break to do self study?

99 points by sun123 ↗ HN
There are so many nice lectures on AI, Machine learning etc., by Stanford, MIT etc., Have anyone took a break from work ,went home just to study these ? I am thinking about taking a break.How does it feel to be not earning that time ?

86 comments

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> How does it feel to be not earning that time ?

You are earning during this study time, you are earning through a long term investment in yourself.

Not in years; supporting family and loving it!
Good question. I've done this a couple of times. Self-study can be incredibly useful. Being able to do it within the "distraction" of a full time job can also be extremely rewarding.

I have a very conservative financial point of view in that if I got fired tomorrow I would want to be fine for the next year without working.

This has in the past allowed me to work on my own stuff a couple of times without much worry (although in Australia, lack of health insurance isn't the issue it is in the US).

It's very easy to get distracted and not finish things (at least for me) without the external pressure of someone pushing you to finish. YMMV.

As far as "not earning" goes, these periods of self-improvement are pretty much directly responsible for me getting the great job I have now (at Google) so I'd say it was a worthwhile investment.

Pick something you want to learn. Don't be directionless and say "self-improvement" is your goal. As long as you can reasonably afford to do it.

lack of health insurance isn't the issue it is in the US

Here's what I've found about health insurance in the US:

1) It's not terribly difficult or expensive to get, at least, emergency coverage. In my 30s and single, I've found interesting plans for around $150 per month which cover simple doctor's visits a few times per year, with around a $10k deductible for 'real' stuff. This is very doable with reasonable financial padding. ehealthinsurance.com is the site I've used every time I've been unemployed over the last decade.

2) The whole thing about guaranteed acceptance with continuous coverage only applies when you are coming off of "group coverage" (i.e. through an employer or some industry associations, I think). Bizarrely, having maintained continuous coverage on my own now for three years means absolutely nothing if I want to change from a personal plan to a new personal plan. I was rejected out of hand for a neck injury I had over three years ago, and I'm effectively uninsurable in this state (Oregon) for another seven years!

In the UK, it costs $0, employed or not, previous neck injury or not, prior condition or not!

No insurance required and it's always good care from experience.

Healthcare is the last thing you want to have to worry about if you are unemployed.

Do you also have dental and eye (glasses) insurance covered by the government?

In Canada we don't, unless its really a health issue; your health is in peril if you don't treat your cavities or this kind of gravity.

Under 18s do, and students can claim back the costs (At least for the dental, I'm not 100% on the glasses).

Adults don't get those 2 for free though, same as you.

I think the idea of taking the break to learn is a great one, but only if you have the purpose for it already decided. There is an endless amount of fascinating content on all sorts of topics available, but if I were to take a break to really brush up on a particular area, I'd want to know that when I was done, I'd be in a better position (For a particular job I want, startup idea to tackle etc.)

If it's more general though, I think it's harder to justify (of course, learning while building a personal project is a different scenario altogether!)

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You get free dental treatment and glasses if you are a student/unemployed.

NHS dental charges for the employed are as follows: http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1781.aspx?CategoryID=74&SubC... - each charge covers everything for 2 months subsequently as well.

It is not much really! In 2002, I had to have surgery to have 2 teeth removed which were growing through the roof of my mouth and 4 others removed due to my jaw being too small. It required a general anaesthetic and a day in general surgery at my local hospital, two aftercare visits and one consultant appointment. It only cost me £15 (the lower rate at the time) as it was a referral to a hospital orthadontist. That was it!

You can get GOOD glasses for £30 or WONDERFUL ones for £70 on the high street now in the UK without NHS intervention. You usually get 2 pairs for that. That includes the sight test and consultation. You can also get FREE sight tests and vouchers from your employer.

The UK is wonderful place to live for healthcare!

You're right. I'm gravely pessimistic about the UK in many areas but healthcare is an area I'm really happy with. Due to shortages at the time, I'm "private" for dentistry, and even private prices aren't onerous compared to those in the Americas.

I've paid £30 for a checkup, £400 for a root canal and crown, and £40 for an extraction before. Fillings are between £50-£150 depending on complexity. And then I hear of insured Americans who've paid $300+ for an extraction AFTER their insurance company paid the majority of the bill! :-)

We certainly have it good here. Unless you have cancer and want to get a radical new treatment, of course..

TBH I'm in London and I've never had to wait for dental treatment. I thought it'd be rather busy here.

With respect to "radical new treatments", I'd rather go out with my dignity intact than hold onto some hope of some snake oil possibly working.

There's some big problems with individual high-limit coverage:

(1) $10K is a big deductible if anything actually happens; if there's anything serious, you should assume you'll hit the $10k.

(2) Some of the better medical offices (eg my orthopaedic surgeon) are pretty picky about what brand of insurance they take because what the insurance pays for, how much they pay, how quickly, and with how much hassle vary quite widely. My point is, insurance is not all the same. You may find the better doctors unwilling to see you depending on the brand of insurance you have.

(3) If you do something like, for example, breaking your ankle, you'll be shocked at how much stuff is not covered by insurance. So add 50% to your out of pocket estimates. This is for things like: parking at the ortho / physical therapist office ($5-$8 per visit; 30+ visits, $200), taxis to and from work since you can't take public transport ($34 / day, 6 months on crutches, $4k), drugs (typically separate from the insurance deductible for no reason but to screw more money out of you, $300), buying all OTC stuff you can get at any drug store which is therefore not covered (advil, ice packs, compression bandages, etc -- easily $200). Plus if you actually have a bad accident, you'll probably spend a couple thousand dollars on takeout, etc.

(4) deductibles reset on a calendar basis. I fortunately injured myself in march and had 8 months of treatment, with both surgeries covered in the same deductible year. If you were to hurt yourself in October, you could cross deductible years so double your out of pocket costs again.

(5) Also, you should be very careful about coverage restrictions and in/out of network bullshit. As I mentioned, I broke my ankle. When you have an injury like that, you don't want to go to a random orthopaedic surgeon. I was fortunate and Anthem Blue Cross covered UCSF so I could go to an ortho surgeon who only repairs ankles instead of a generic ortho surgeon. The difference is between someone who has treated my particular injury 600+ times vs someone who has done so a handful of times. Lots of research suggests that outcomes correlate with the amount of times your doctor has treated your injury.

My experience was a bit unusual because the recovery time -- 8 months -- was so protracted, but not unprecedented for joint injuries. Recommendation: don't break your ankle =P

tl:dr: in a worst case scenario, where you have a moderate to bad injury that spans a deductible year, your $10K can be $25K in practice. Make sure you have the cash.

All good points. To some extent you can work up to a $10k deductible using an HSA. First year, you elect a $4k deductible -- the premiums are more expensive but you have lower exposure. Drop the max into your HSA. If, at the end of the year, you've been healthy and haven't spent much out of the HSA, then change your insurance up to the next deductible level (e.g. $7500). Drop the max into your HSA. Assuming you stay healthy, your HSA accumulates a large balance and you can gradually lower your premiums. Keep in mind that you aren't required to spend from your HSA if you have expenses: if you can pay out of pocket for minor expenses, do it. This keeps your HSA balance up so you can afford the risk exposure of the higher deductible.

As a bonus, the HSA contributions are tax deductible and if you hit retirement age with a balance in the account, you can (more or less) treat it like your other retirement accounts.

I agree, pick something you want to learn. I took about 6 months off. The first 2 I relaxed and didn't do much. Then, I bought a nice DSLR and got into photography. I would spend my days reading photography books, blogs, etc and my nights going out taking night photos of New York (http://www.flickr.com/photos/blakeperdue/sets/72157625542951...)

It was awesome to be able to have time to dive into a hobby and really soak it all in. I developed some great skills that will be useful to me for the rest of my life. It was also during this time that I realized what I wanted to do next.

"(although in Australia, lack of health insurance isn't the issue it is in the US)"

OT: When are we here in the US going to start listening to these comments, and fix it?

Job mobility is a great feature of an economy. When, because of health or mortgage or whatever, you can't move your brain from one job that isn't the best one for your brain or that job, to a job that is much better for your brain and that new job, that's a loss to the economy. Multiply that by however many and it's a handicap to the economy.

In the US if you quit your job you can buy the same health insurance plan you had, for up to 18 months ("COBRA"). It's not going to be the cheapest thing in the world, but if you're talking about taking a year off, you're probably not on the verge of going broke. (It looks like it'd be far less than what I pay for rent, for example.)

Another option could be to take a part-time job. A fair number of stores seem to offer health insurance for any employee working 20 hours a week. Of course, that may or may not be compatible with one's idea of a "break".

Have you checked these claims in the "real world"?

Costs have been rising substantially each and every year. The number of employers willing to give even full time employees insurance has been shrinking and the cost of your employer's health insurance plan willing be quite high considering you don't have your employers tax incentives.

Wow, such vitriol! Yes, I have.

It's not hard to find names of employers who offer healthcare even for half-time workers, using any "search engine". I'm sure there are also companies who are dropping their health insurance plans, but that doesn't mean that all companies are.

When I quit my job last year to join a start-up the cost to continue my COBRA benefits would have been $700/month (and I'm a healthy guy in my 20s). Fortunately, I'm in MA with its private health insurance market, and I was able to find a plan for $200/month. I still had to go without health insurance at all for a month, though, to make myself become inelegible for COBRA and therefore eligible for the other plan.

"Not the cheapest thing in the world" is quite an understatement.

From what I'd found (also for a young single person), it would have been more like $500/month, but even at $700, that's still cheaper than rent at any apartment I've seen since I was a college student.

And remember the context: this is someone who wants to take a year off with no work at all, and so is voluntarily giving up tens of thousands of dollars, in exchange for his own time. Yes, there are almost certainly cheaper health insurance options, depending on how much effort you want to put into the research, but COBRA is the upper bound, and takes practically no time to sign up for, which, again, was the whole point of the exercise.

>I have a very conservative financial point of view in that if I got fired tomorrow I would want to be fine for the next year without working.

Having enough money for just 1 year isn't conservative.

I don't think you'd need to quit or take off for a year, many people have full time jobs and go to school at the same time. You should be able to take these classes at your leisure while maintaining a paycheck. Or you can just quit and focus fully on this for a year.
I'm currently doing self education beside my full time job. Did not take time off for self study, but I'd like to if I get chance.
How do future employers look at this time of unemployment?
This is a reason to worry.
Is that still a thing? It's not like you'll be applying to law firms. I've found making yourself less available only makes your demand higher.
Unfortunately, yes. Employers, and the non-technical gateways in particular, still have the mindset of "reject for anything, weeding people out means I'm doing my job!"
Make yourself look so valuable that they wouldn't dream of rejecting you for some invented reason. If front-line resume screeners are the issue, get an existing employee to submit your resume and vouch for you and get buy-in from their boss. That way HR can't reject you on a flimsy basis.
It is absolutely still a thing. Since the current top comment (from cletus) mentions working at Google I'll relate a story from when I interviewed there. From what I understand, I made it pretty far in the process (to the "executive committee review") and that's when they asked me to explain a gap in my resume. They pressed me for a detailed breakdown of what I did during the gap and the reasons behind it, and said that they take it seriously. This was after 8 technical interviews and after I'd passed their hiring committee. I didn't get the job, although I suspect that this was not the reason. I'm sure experience varies here, and this would likely be less of an issue at a startup or other small company where a record of getting shit done is more important, but it's worth noting.

I would recommend that if you take time off for whatever reason, prepare for questions like these and be ready to provide a succinct and compelling explanation at the drop of a hat, because being blindsided isn't fun.

> It is absolutely still a thing.

A bit of a pity.

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Jeez, good to know. As mfalcon mentioned, freelancing would be a good fallback, but you'd still have to talk about what kind of work you were doing etc.
Sorry if I'm just ignoring something(I'm not from the USA) but isn't it possible to say you were freelancing or something similar to cover the gap?.
I took a year off to travel before my current job. Best thing I ever did. Before leaving, I made sure I had several standing job offers. Get your foot in the door when you're in a stronger position. Do it for your own peace of mind if nothing else. You don't want to spend half of your sabbatical worrying about what to do when it's over.
You found companies willing to wait a year for you to start? That's surprising, I wouldn't have guessed that would be easy to do. I'm thinking about this myself, but I'm looking to join a startup and I can't imagine that would be feasible given that a year is a long time for a startup.
Of course. Why wouldn't they be willing to wait? It's that or nothing.
that or nothing or someone else who can start 6 months earlier.
If they are looking to fill a fixed spot, sure. But more often than not, that isn't how hiring works.
If you're a programmer and you're taking time off to learn and build things, then I can't see how it could hurt you with future employers.

"Why did you take the time off?" "I was building this thing that has since been forked 200 times on Github and is running in at least a dozen shipped projects" "Ok then"

I think most employers would look at it positively. Those who don't are probably the employers you don't want to work for anyways.
Totally worth it. Write open source code, it just might turn out to be the foundation of a career.
Just to reiterate what others have said: work on something concrete. Opensource projects, your own side project, a subject-specific blog, etc.

A year of study is worth significantly less if the results are only in your head.

Also - working on something real can give you measurable milestones to work toward completing. (The fact is, the longer time you set aside, the more time you are in danger of wasting.)

i took 3 months off at the end of 2010 because my partner was on sabattical in the states and i wanted to travel with her (and can't work their due to visa issues). it was great not working (or more exactly, being able to choose what i did), but i don't think i learnt much more than i would have in, say, 6-9 months of doing stuff on an evening and at weekends. the biggest win was that it brought us closer together (another bonus, more particular to my case, was that living in the usa gave me access to new egg, amazon and adlibris, so i read a pile and built a new machine - mini-itx based - that came back as hand luggage) .

financially i didn't have any worries - i had a pile of savings, a job to return to, and my partner earns enough for us to survive on anyway. one thing i would suggest is talking to your employer about it - while they may be unhappy to have you take time off, it is also likely in their interest to take you back afterwards (assuming you're a decent programmer, which i would guess is the case if you care about learning) (although a year ago the economy was heading down, so it made more sense to give me a break then).

It would probably helpful to have a very clear goal with what you want to accomplish. And some way to force yourself to actually sit down and put in the hours. For me, it would be too tempting to have coffee dates all the time, or refresh hacker news every minute.
After I dropped out of a theoretical physics Ph.D. program a long time ago, I decided to try to become a computer programmer. I had not taken a single computer science course in college. I was lucky that my parents allowed me to live at home for a year while I spent my entire time teaching myself programming. A friend told me to learn Scheme, so I went through all of SICP using my sister's Mac (I did not own a computer at the time). Then I started to learn C and Unix, hacked a bit with that, learned C++, and applied for jobs after doing some open source work so that I could have something to show. I got hired as a software engineer a year after I started my self-study.
I've built up a solid fund over the past 4 months for this kind of self-study. The plan is to quit my job around May 1st, and use the resulting free time to spend 20 hours more a week on edification and 20 hours more on personal projects.

I'm explicitly committing for six months, with the option to continue it six more without even giving a thought to job-hunting.

The downside is that, at the end of it, I'll be down a bit more than 12 months of savings than I would be otherwise. So compared to the "stick with my job" plan, in my particular case I'd have 75% what I otherwise would. That's assuming I don't change my consumption habits from current.

In terms of intellectual growth, I've stagnated at my current position. So the skills built by taking this route are pure benefit. There's no trade off. The alternative of getting a job where I'm both challenging myself and getting paid (likely more than I am now) is more appealing, but getting a much more solid grasp of the fundamentals seems to trump that (I've never taken any CS classes).

I figure that the investment should pay itself off financially within 5 years, as a pessimistic estimate.

As far as the actual feeling... that's an open question for me, too. The big issues I see are making sure that I follow through with my intentions. No wasting any time on HN/Reddit. I shouldn't be doing that now, even.

Not earning for 6 months, a year or more isn't a big deal. Just plan for it financially ahead of time and leave a nice buffer so you are comfortable.

If your going to come out with a new skill set or even just a better outlook on life it's worth it IMO.

I think it worth every penny lost. But, I would suggest to do enough groundwork on what you would like to achieve in that period.

No financial earning periods can be quite challenging but if you have a job, like I had, that does not allow any time to explore yourself, I think it is worth taking time off if you are really serious and confident about doing something different. Also, bear in mind that your efforts could (will) take substantially longer to bear fruit. So, it is really important to set your expectations appropriately before taking the step forward.

As far as I can see, all successful stories are basically breaks that involved a lot of hard-work, luck and which finally materialized!

Just my 2p.

I took much of last year off to focus on learning the technologies needed to build the product for my startup -- graph databases was the big one, and during the time I built Bulbs (https://github.com/espeed/bulbs), a Python framework for graph databases like Neo4j Server.

Eliminating all distractions has been key -- no side jobs, no girlfriends, no going out -- a period of complete focus.

Working out and exercising has been critical though for keeping my energy level up and maintaining mental clarity.

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I have - I left a a very stable job and pursued self-study for 9 months. I still pursue it, but not in a rigorous fashion as I had for those 9 months; once my startup levels out a bit more and I can hire more people to do my job, I will probably start going after more self-study.
A bit of hard earned experience: Check for health problems. If you hate what you're doing, you might just be sick.

That said, it is really good to think about what you really want to do every few years.

Took the Stanford Database class online (while working) at the end of last year. It was one of the best technical education experiences I have ever had. That said...

Self study does not include credentials and evidence of specific work that traditional education does. If your future work is largely freelancing, this is probably irrelevant. If you are targeting work in the corporate world HR still looks for gaps in employment.

I did something like this to study math after a startup exit (so money wasn't an issue), around 2005, well before the recent spate of free online courses. I did a combination of self-study (reading books), informally sitting in on classes in the local university, and some small study groups I organized. That was all well and good, but it eventually became clear I'd make much faster progress in a more formal setting, so I went back to school. Formal deadlines are a powerful motivator. Also, reading math is hard and conversations with experts can often speed along understanding. Five years later, I'm in my 3rd year of grad school in a pure math program.
Not that long but I did take 3 months vacations, or 2 weeks to learn something.

It feels absolutely great to be able to just learn for the sake of learning (but that learning can be: build a product etc too).

Now you have to secure your finances: know your burn rate, define a date in advance to start looking for work etc.

Yes. I dropped out of high school during my sophomore year, I spent the next 18 months of so teaching myself to program, economics, and a bunch of other stuff. It wasn't taking a break from work, but I figure it's relevant.
Honestly, I've found that getting a job in a field that I'm interested in is a much faster way to learn. You have the advantage of working with people already in the field, an existing codebase and set of data to tap into, and clear projects with deadlines and impact to the bottom line.

Example: Machine Learning. I learned much more in a few weeks at a job at a Machine Learning company than I ever did trying working through Elements of Statistical Learning on my own.

How do you get into Machine Learning company in the first place? You need certain basics to get into one.
If you can prove that you're smart and capable of contributing to the bottom line, it's very possible to get hired with the assumption that you'll quickly pick up anything you need to know.

Eg, at a previous job I'd saved the company $3MM/year using a technology I'd never really worked with before. With that kind of track record this company was happy to hire me even if I didn't have direct ML experience.

In the UK we have The Open University (which is open for international study too).

You can get a real degree in your spare time without a massive spend, working or not.

I'm doing a mathematics degree at the moment, whilst employed. No holiday/vacation required!

Good to know, I'm starting a math degree with them too. Would you mind getting in touch?
You can self-study your entire life, whenever you make the time for it. I do.