+1 for this. No church is perfect, but my experience is that church is a place where I can go to gather with people from diverse backgrounds, perspectives, and needs and come together on some common points: we need more than ourselves to make it through life, we need to be kinder, and we should serve each other.
I have seen my congregation rally around new parents, people with mental health conditions, and other such common struggles. Serving others is a great way to feel that you are part of a community. Church can be a great framework for that kind of thing.
While I totally understand why you'd find community there, I am surprised that you'd consider Church to be a place to find people of diverse backgrounds. That hasn't at all been my experience
My church has one couple where both spouses were born in the same country.
We span many past religions and world views. Poor backgrounds and wealthy.
But we all now hold a very similar world view. So we don't have the kind of diversity some people think of. We're not defined by our pasts as much as we are by our common beliefs.
I expect sect/denomination has an influence here because my experiences in the past were strictly familial, no one made friends there though there are familiar faces. Once service is over, it was Sunday brunch with family.
At any rate, potential friendship is a weak rationalization for joining a religion when there are many avenues to do this.
Imagine going to a movie theater, watching a movie, then leaving and not talking to anyone afterwards. Naturally, that is a terrible way to engage in the movie enthusiast community.
On the other hand, if you spend time with some people, go and watch the movie together, and talk afterwards, it'll feel a whole lot more impactful and you'll find the shared experience fosters a sense of community if you do it on a regular basis.
Denominations, and individual churches within a church, will definitely all have different levels of cohesiveness and character to their communities. It begins and ends, however, with getting out what you put into it.
> Imagine going to a movie theater, watching a movie, then leaving and not talking to anyone afterwards
Uh, I don't know about you but I've never known anyone leaving a theater try to solicit strangers for conversation. You talk to the people you arrived with.
Yes, I'm a practicing Catholic and attend Church often with my fiancee.
Everyone is welcome to even attend Mass (they just don't receive communion) and participate in activities that we organize. We also have many support groups for elderly, grieving families, young adults and so on.
Additionally, if you want to do volunteer work, contact the closest Catholic Church. You can join pretty much all of the events regardless of your background.
We are not some "exclusive" membership, the doors are open.
Church is great for this specifically because it's a social group that spends all its time espousing the idea that all men are created equal, therefore ALL backgrounds are welcome. The most important piece of social mobility is knowing those outside of your economic circle.
Example: You need a job, you know your great buddy Bob has a spot that you could hop into, he knows you pretty well and that you're not an idiot, so he hires you on the spot into a job you never would've had the qualification for otherwise.
Start a morning coffee group that meets weekly. Been regularly attending the last decade. A silver lining of the pandemic is now we meet around a morning fire when it's the proper season.
This is one of those things where when you realize it, it's almost embarrassing how obvious it should have been.
The Church is 2000 years old. It has outlasted basically any other institution that has ever existed in the history of humanity. The things The Church encourages are:
1) Building families
2) Building communities
3) Using these things to make the world a more loving place through volunteerism
It should not be surprising that this is a good place to make friends and connect with your community.
The issue I have with churches, specifically Catholic and other large ones, is belonging to and participating in an organization that has collectively done so many bad things to humans just doesn't sit well with me. Then there's the element of collecting money and hoarding it and its a huge turn off.
You may say "the doors are open" and in fact they may be in your local church but official membership has requirements, rules to follow and some larger churches also are very much opposed to equality for all humans. I don't believe the Catholic church (or other denominations of Christianity, or Mormon church) would allow a LGBT couple to officially join.
I understand that yours and others experiences don't reflect the entirety of ~1700 years of the organized state religion of the Roman Empire. When we're talking about finding community outside of work, I find large churches will have a facade of community but in practice are not as welcoming to all.
> I don't believe the Catholic church (or other denominations of Christianity, or Mormon church) would allow a LGBT couple to officially join.
That's not entirely true. No legitimate catholic church would prohibit lgbtq couples from joining. The more conservative ones definitely would not condone their lifestyle, however, and probably none would agree to marry them. So if you are lgbtq you should probably just give some serious thought into more liberal denominations.
I was pointing out an obvious example of a facade of "welcoming all" from the community (would not prohibit people from joining, anyone can show up and volunteer) vs. really welcoming all where anyone could be full members through all of their ceremonies like baptism, confirmation, marriage, etc. or even allowing anyone to pursue theological leadership positions like pastor, deacon, priest, etc.
The Catholic Church is complicated around LGBTQ issues. Some communities are more welcoming than others, but there is always a limit to how welcomed an LGBTQ person would be.
The Episcopal Church is very welcoming of LGBTQ people, however. We perform same-sex marriages and ordain LGBTQ people to clergy. My particular parish is marching in a local Pride parade this year.
Agree. Obviously if you're a staunch atheist or otherwise just can't stomach the idea of "God," then visiting a church not recommended. But if you grew up Christian and drifted away, or you can entertain the possibility of a higher power, then I recommend checking out a church as a place to find community.
Denominations are different flavors of Christianity, and which denomination you visit is important. I'm personally a member of "The Episcopal Church," which I find to have a very small amount of dogma and is tolerant of a wide range of beliefs. The theological dogma can be summarized in the "Nicene Creed," which is a pretty short list of what the church holds to be true (and even if you as individual differ, TEC is chill about that). After that, members of The Episcopal Church are more united in what they do together rather than what they believe togther - songs, taking communion, common readings, etc. The Episcopl Church is generally one of the more liberal/progressive churches around (we ordain women and LGBTQ individuals into the clergy and perform same-sex marriages, for example).
Otherwise, it's a nice group of people that I see every week. A lot of churches have a "coffee hour" or a meal after the service, and it's a time to chit chat with others. They care about me and I care about them, and people check in on each other to see how everyone is doing. When we had a baby, people brought us food, and we always get cards in the mail for birthdays and such. It's nice.
Since we're a community of people, we can sometimes work together to accomplish things I wouldn't be able to do on my own. We run a food pantry and we've supported families fleeing from bad situations (and not in abstract sense, but doing the legwork of finding an apartment in town and providing furniture and stuff). One family attends our services, and their kid is about my kid's age, so we've become friends over that.
Again, I know religion can invoke strong feelings, so if the very idea is offputting, leave it alone, it's fine. But for me, it's been a community I've appreciated having.
I’m not religious at all, rather agnostic, but my wife is a nonpracticing Christian. (Although I find a good sermon/pastor to be motivating, thought provoking, and just full of basic life lessons that happen to he documented in an old book).
I’m fine with the concept of the right church because of the community effects especially as a parent and wanting my kid to have as many positive role models as possible in his life; peers/adults/seniors. So after many years of being with my wife, we decided to start when my kid was 4. We actually wanted to start earlier but it’s a hard habit to just introduce, then 2020 happened, etc so here we are. It’s been quite a positive adjustment. It’s easy to see the cult and abuse headlines and write it off, but when done right I still think it’s incredibly powerful and religion as a whole is just a framework for peaceful civilization and coexistence with communities.
If they scrapped the sky fairy parts and just made it a weekly social event with interesting speakers and stories then church would actually be quite an attractive option
You might be interested in the Unitarian Universalist Church. I'm not a member so can't speak directly to it, but I'm friends with a few people who are. I once heard it affectionately teased as the place for people who don't believe in God but like going to church.
jiujitsu though competition gets a little toxic and filled with egos, friday night magic and mtg in general was fun for a bit until i realized how much of a cash sink it is. skateboarding, snowboarding and to some extent surfing, thats more of a loner thing. bowls at the skatepark are usually fun, social and laid back.
BJJ (Brazilian jiu-jitsu) seems to be getting really popular in tech. Among others Mark Zuckerberg participated in a BJJ tournament very recently. BJJ seems to have the highest concentration of tech workers among any sports I did. Beyond the initial impression, it's very intellectual sport - "chess with your body".
I second the magic the gathering suggestion, in particular if you go to tournaments. I have met a lot of cool people by preparing a tournament, discussing metagame choices, then spending three days living a shared experience (the tournament itself).
I know some Indians and Pakistani who play pickleball.
I know rather more Indians who play cricket. I think you have to have critical mass to get a cricket team going though... Not everywhere has enough interest.
The nice thing about pickleball is that it's often drop in play, so you can show up whenever is convenient for you and play with random people. This is indeed a light social interaction, but the people who regular eventually get to know each other. Where I live there is a strong pickleball community.
Reached out to a group of acquittances (with no kids) a few years back to see if anyone wanted to play weekly D&D. 6 years later, I am now happy to call them friends.
Personally:
-sports: climbing gyms/trips/facebook groups/etc, bike groups (not exclusively biking alone), hiking trips, etc
Anecdotally:
-drama clubs/local theatre productions
-run clubs: while running is typically fairly isolated, there are social run clubs in cities that often go for a drink (no booze necessary) post-run
-book clubs: random collections of people that discuss a book together
-dinner clubs: sharing food with folks in a way where different people cook for others in turn
-partying: most places have a community of folks that enjoy dancing and/or recreationals
Note that I believe that the strong relationships can come from overcoming a shared struggle, so if you can think of something that's difficult and with one or more other person/people, you will probably form a community around it over time (co-founders and cohorts are a great example).
At least on the coasts, clubs that do outdoors activities are fairly common. Doesn't need to be hardcore. There's the Appalachian Mountain Club in the Northeast US which dates to the 1800s. There are (unsurprisingly) at least a couple different Northern CA/PNW clubs though I'm less familiar with what they offer.
My local gaming group has a number of people who have found community amongst our members. We advertise on our Facebook page so check for a group near you.
1. family and extended family. Not everyone, but some are great.
2. Communities based on your hobbies or passions; for example, I ride motorcycles and I built a small team that go on tours across Europe and I am in progress to do the same for adventure/offroad bike tours. You can do many others, from hiking or fishing or dancing to flying sports planes, depending on what you love and what you can afford.
I run community events for tech interest communities (AICamp, MLOps Community)
It's work related, but not directly
Outside of that, I don't really have much of a community. I sometimes go to local meetup groups for fun. However, I feel like these are usually a waste of time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gardening/permaculture communities. Also, my kids preschool parents, its small, at least 80% of the parents are immigrants with another language other than English. We all share similar values and the struggles of learning the language. Before that mountaineering and Linux User Group where the places to have good friends.
Separately just being a regular at a bar is a very good way to get to know people, again you need to find the right spot.
I'm not religious but I know many people who find community there. Other places I've seen friends have success are gaming guilds/circles and fraternities (Mason lodges, etc.)
Speaking of which I grow my friend circle by meeting friends of friends and then developing my own first order friendships with them.
Out of interest, do you find many working on software projects at hacker spaces? Each one I've looked at online seems to have more of a focus on hardware, electronics, metal/wood working with little mention of software. The caveat is that I've only really looked at UK based ones so this may be regional.
I've been trying to find a space that has a similar energy as my old university CS lab. There was a bit of a perfect time in my final year, whereafter 2+ years most people seemed to know each other and at the same time everyone was specialising in their degree. So you could walk into the lab and find people working deep in their own game engine code, others would be working on ML models and others may be working on mobile apps or websites. But with a sense of overall camaraderie and sharing of what you're working on and why.
I suppose it just sounds like I'm describing something like a WeWork but when I've attended those they seem much more employee focused and I rarely saw employees of different companies talk to each other.
I also realise that some of what I describe is often fulfilled by talking to others at your workplace, I'm fully remote so I am missing out on that part.
If anyone knows of anything similar to what I describe above in or near London feel free to reach out to the email in my profile!
I remember someone programming some visuals in vvvv for the first time I'd ever seen that at a hackerspace some years ago in Vancouver, BC which was in some sketchy alley where you hollered up at them and they lowered a key on a pulley. I think you might find some interest taking advantage of the fact that there's so much hardware and electronics around and learning something from them. There's a likelihood that there is someone in there who could use a hand with whatever they're doing in there on the software end too.
For what you're more closely describing I've found local programming meetups in a few major cities that happen at local bars and restaurants to be like that, mostly just people coming in and working on their projects (Either personal or together), maybe not on the same level as what you had in uni but definitely worth checking out too.
I go to my local hackerspace a couple times a week and there's nearly always a few people working on software, and just there for the social aspects and/or to bounce ideas/solutions off others.
Look for local meetups, that's where you can find people who want to engage more broadly. Appropriate spaces may host these, or you may be able to find out about good hangouts from other meetup attendees.
In hackerspaces, I find that software-focused people have different patterns of use than tool focused people. They need to sit down for some focus time, which is hard to distinguish from just browsing from afar. When people use tools, it's clear to see. Speaking from experience with SF/Noisebridge, Oakland/SudoRoom-Omni-commons, Sacramento/Hacker Lab, and visiting some spaces while traveling.
Raves, particularly ones that are designed to be “transformative” like Lightning in a Bottle in California.
Music festivals with camping are magical ways to build community and inspire yourself around other like minded and curious people. I never attended these events until a near death experience prioritized my love of dancing in my early 30. Now nearly 10 years later I'm even more convinced this is the way.
Lightning in a Bottle was amazing this year. Something about camping in a harsh environment really brings you closer with your friends, and the whole community there is so welcoming and energizing. Music has been bringing communities together for 1000s of years, and festivals like that really show how true that is.
I've found one by going to smaller EDM/DJ sets on weekdays and talking to people - it's not a huge crowd so people tend to chill and chat. Never ended up going to the actual event - it was more of a local burner/art event, but it was definitely a word of mouth kind of thing
Yeah, regional burns are definitely my jam. I guess I just gotta ask folks what other events they are going to whenever I'm at one. Yay network effects!
Username checks out… I imagine much of this community you reference is mostly intoxicated with mind altering substances? Curious how that contributes to said community.
Square dancing and running. Both have been wonderful for developing connections and lasting friendships — in fact, I met my wife square dancing, although that wasn’t my intention.
I wasn’t athletic before I started running and I wasn’t a dancer before I started square dancing, so I think an important aspect is stepping out of your comfort zone yo try something new.
Not quite outside of work but separate from my clients and employers. I have found it at my Coworking space.
Sadly, in my experience, few Coworking spaces provide the things good communities provide.
I recommend trying all the Coworking spaces near you until you find the one that feels right.
Like good coffee shops, it’s usually the ones that aren’t part of a chain that are best. High-end interior design, flashy marketing and all the amenities you can imagine aren’t the things that matter.
Other dog owners/trainers. Neighbors. Anything close by really.
I don't really have the time to venture far from the house for hobbies, so most of mine revolve around dogs/gardening and electronics tinkering that I do inside the house.
This might be the closest for me. Grew up in choirs and play multiple instruments. Would really love a gospel choir, if one would have me. Will poke around. Thanks!
You asked, so I'll tell you: My local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses. https://jw.org.
I've never been happier in my life, and the sense of purpose, community, and security has never been higher. I won't espouse any religious teachings here, that's what the link above is for should you choose to visit it.
The most amazing part is that it's genuine and trustworthy. It's all made of imperfect humans to be sure, but you'll be hard pressed to find more trustworthy people who show a sincere genuine interest and truly care.
Eh, it's genuine as long as you subscribe to their set of beliefs. This may not be a problem for you, but for folks who care about reality, it could be more difficult.
The difference between this and say, a rec soccer team, is that it's an all-or-nothing endeavor. You can't "casually" become a Jehovah's Witness (or any other religion), you have to decide that your entire life is aligned to those principles.
I'm not knocking it (here, anyway), but I would hesitate to join a religion to make friends.
I don't know anything about Jehovah's Witnesses but certainly there are a lot of religions that are comfortable with people coming by out of curiosity and/or participating sporadically.
I googled the word and the first google hit tells me that if I am following those rules, it's not cool for me to say hello to someone in that state of being.
That's right, we choose not to accept blood transfusions. But, "literally expect you to just die if you experience any sort of trauma." is outright wrong. We strongly value life! We spend a lot of time and resources to understand transfusion alternatives, of which there are many, and we each individually make the decisions as to what types of treatment we will accept.
Let me ask you a direct question, and I hope you'll respond directly.
Lets say all of those "transfusion alternatives" demonstrably fail, and someone has two choices left: Transfuse or Die; you might phrase that as "Transfuse or Pray", but either way...
...What then? When all other options are exhausted, the prayers aren't working, and your last chance to live involves transfusions, are they permissible?
They aren't. That's where a strong future hope comes in, and the desire to follow God's laws over all else.
That doesn't make it easy, but if one truly believes something, shouldn't they be be willing to make sacrifices for it? People don't think twice about giving their life for their country, so why would somebody be any less convicted?
A country is a real thing. What if someone truly believed in Santa Claus and was ready to sacrifice their life believing that will save Santa/follow his teachings? Would you think that's ridiculous?
Now replace Santa with God, this is what atheists believe...
There are quite a lot of varying degrees of casual believers in religion. I grew up in a family of Christians/Catholics who never go to church, rarely say grace, have never personally read the Bible, but still believe in God/afterlife/etc and have personal beliefs that are molded from religious teachings.
I know at least for the Christian based religious groups I'm aware of, you don't even need to share faith to be part of the community.
Believe it or not, they don't get into fist fights when they meet someone of another faith either.
For Jehovah's Witnesses specifically, this could not be further from the truth [0], and for Christian groups generally, you beg the question here by ceding one must believe in that religion's concept of a deity/afterlife/etc. Such a belief is extremely hard to come by if not raised in that religion, and even harder if you're attached to reality's cause-effect relationships. Not impossible! But hard.
And you're right; warring religious groups don't use fists...
This is a stupidly glib comment. The poster meant that the reality of life as a Jehova's Witness cannot be gleaned from looking at some document of the religion, and I think you knew that, but decided to take a shot at the Bible anyways because you've been acculturated to think that dunking on religion is both correct and acceptable.
Even non-believers have had their beliefs shaped in part by experiences with religion. In the case of joining a religious community, adhering to the dogma is usually important, let alone preferred.
I also have known "Catholic-lite" adherents, but they ultimately identify as Catholic. Anyway some of the minor sects don't take the distinctions between theirs and others lightly.
Jehovah's Witnesses aren't merely some odd religion, they espouse beliefs such as rejecting blood transfusions, including among their children. Which has resulted in deaths. [1] I'm not entirely sure if advertising for a cult that puts people's health at risk is more appropriate on HN than pointing that out in a post that may very well be recruitment.
> Eh, it's genuine as long as you subscribe to their set of beliefs. This may not be a problem for you, but for folks who care about reality, it could be more difficult.
Sounds like any friend/social group that has strong political beliefs too? Was enlightening to see this in 2016 when I shared I didn't vote for Hillary. Heaven forbid I voted libertarian, was like having a scarlet letter on my chest.
My mum some years back got involved in a church (as a non religious person).
She somehow ended up giving talks at church events and got invited to speak out of town (she would talk about subjects such as helping refugees etc).
Eventually though she felt like she was being excluded in subtle ways and being asked to give too much of her time.
I also went to a couplebbible reading events some years back (free food lol) as my gf used to be religious and wanted me to go along.
Everyone was nice, food was good, but I couldn't get over how everyone in the group would listen to a story (which would literally make zero sense) and swallow it down as if it was a bed time story.
> It's not too hard when you hear ridiculous stories and treat them as if they were to happen today.
Maybe it hinges on which parts of the stories you imagining happening today.
E.g., if Jesus rose from the dead next week, I'd find it pretty thought-provoking. If he were merely crucified but stayed dead, I'd cross Christianity of my list of plausible world views.
I.e., a lot really depends on whether or not those miraculous events actually happened.
> if Jesus rose from the dead next week, I'd find it pretty thought-provoking. If he were merely crucified but stayed dead, I'd cross Christianity of my list of plausible world views.
In today’s environment, how would you evaluate the truth value of a claim like that? It seems like the only way to 100% convinced of the truth would be as a first-hand witness, unless there was some kind of detailed and airtight evaluation.
Maybe the foundation document for the next world religion will be a 100-page paper that definitely establishes causality.
As a believer - thanks for the insight! Normative acceptance of bizarre claims must feel odd. I guess there is a passing familiarity with some of these stories in some of these communities that means they are either unexceptional or at least, not the “main game” as supernatural beliefs go — but that must have felt strange!
Most faith communities I’ve been part of have had some form of space for questions and encouraged discussion about stories they have heard. I’ve found probably 1 in 10 people would start a discussion about this and maybe half would engage with it, suggesting community is a big part of the draw but also that for a significant minority, community is centred on some of these “big if they were to happen today” events.
I do think wrestling with our reality to understand the nature of the world is a pretty powerful force for creating meaningful relationships! But this depth can also be uncomfortable or abstract at times.
Religion is a special kind of thing that's quite different. It isn't like a philosophy or believing vaccines don't work. It's a structure of your reality.
JW are all or nothing, but lots of other religious communities accept various degrees of unbelief: various Jewish denominations, Quakers, Unitarians, Episcopalians, Western-style Buddhists, etc. Catholicism is officially all or nothing but if you're born into it, there are a lot of liberal parishes where you're not expected to actually believe it. There was an Episcopalian meme circulating in the 00s where it showed a picture of the controversial liberalizing American Archbishop with the text "Don't believe in that crap? Neither do we."[1] That's pretty standard among mainline denominations.
but I would hesitate to join a religion to make friends.
Agreed. That isn't what I suggested. I answered the question asked. Nowhere did I say somebody should attain to becoming a JW to have more friends. That's the exact wrong reason in fact.
Religions are very different. Imagine Islam vs. Buddhism for example. The GP point is a valid one: fellowship alongside a shared set of core beliefs is invaluable. The problem is not all shared beliefs have equal merit.
I could be a white supremacist and find great fellowship with other white supremacists but this would be destructive in the long run, in the short term to others due to my prejudice but in the longer term to myself because those beliefs are objectively abhorrent. But not all shared belief systems are abhorrent.
Instead, groups of people for centuries have found camaraderie exploring what it means to follow a certain historical figure, Jesus Christ. Looking at his teachings you can see that this will lead to vastly different outcomes than following a Joseph Smith, a Muhammad, a Richard Dawkins, etc.
You don't have to subscribe to their set of beliefs. They are not telepaths, they don't know whether you actually believe or not.
For that matter, it's debatable whether or not the believers actually believe things. They probably wonder themselves sometimes. They don't often make a big deal out of it, if they do find themselves no longer believing... and there is a conceptual framework built into the religion (that of "loss of faith").
Like the ancient religions, being willing to perform the rituals non-cynically is really the only requirement. You and everyone else already perform dozens of non-religious rituals and think nothing of it. What's a few more?
I mean, don't do it if you don't want to. But don't pretend the option's not open to you. Even if there's a clever believer there that somehow reads your mind, you're not unwelcome at most of these places even then.
Sincere question: when did you join JW, and what was your immediate reason for doing so?
The reason I ask is that there are a lot of people recommending churches (of various kinds) in this thread, and I take it most of the non-religious among us would very much not be comfortable regularly attending a religious organization's meetings purely for community, while not believing any the things that organization believes. (With the exception of religious organizations that are explicitly accepting of people with any faith, such as Unitarian Universalists.)
To me, it's sort of implicit in the question that what we are looking for is something you can show up to and get involved purely because you want somewhere to show up and get involved, without people side-eyeing you because of that or expecting something more than that (like a declaration of faith) in the months or years to come.
I was raised around it but decided to become baptized at 19. I'm in my 40's now. Reason? Life, the world around me, and pretty much everything just made better sense. I feel secure and happy this way, and I like it. I'm plenty open minded, and I've studied other belief systems, but I made a conscious choice that I stick to because it makes the most sense to me.
Some people think that because many of us have left other ways behind that we're fanatical or something- nope, we just found something that makes more sense to us than anything else, and genuinely believe we've found the things most others are still looking for- meaning to life, answers to why things are the way they are, and a secure future.
We're welcoming of anybody who wants to visit and check us out. We expect that if somebody doesn't want to share in our beliefs that they'll probably move on, and that's fine. We aren't about membership, we're about showing people what the Bible says about things.
To that end, we've re-evaluated the Bible without any pre-conceptions, which is why a lot of other religious that believe in things like the Trinity or the immortal soul look at us as heretical or crazy. But, when we objectively looked at the Bible (KJV originally) we didn't find those things, so we don't believe them. Pretty simple really.
> we've re-evaluated the Bible without any pre-conceptions, which is why a lot of other religious that believe in things like the Trinity or the immortal soul look at us as heretical or crazy
At least for Protestant Christian churches, there can be ambiguity about the purpose / audience of a church meeting.
Some meetings are intended as outreach to non-Christians. E.g., to present reasons for being Christian, or to let outsiders see what a typical worship service is actually like.
Some meetings (or parts of meetings) only make sense for actual Christians: singing worship songs, testifying what they believe God is doing in the world, or taking communion.
I think a lot of awkward discomfort stems from lack of clarity on these points, and confusion about which attendees are professing Christians.
> who show a sincere genuine interest and truly care.
...until you decide it's not for you and you are summarily kicked out and effectively exiled.
I am glad it works for you but JW acts like cult, and probably is a cult. I've seen first hand the damage it does to people who choose to no longer partake.
'Those who leave the faith are called "apostates" and are "disfellowshipped", a term for formal expulsion and shunning, where members are "prohibited from talking, and even from saying 'hello' to them".
As far as I understand as a non-member, but as someone who has talked to one, they are really hurting for new members. I'm pretty sure if you just find a local lodge and email them they'd be happy to give an invite.
"To be one, ask one" is their common saying about how to join. There are 3 degrees (entered apprentice, fellow craft, and master mason). Typically, someone who wants to join a lodge will contact the secretary of the lodge to express their interest. The secretary should provide information on either 'stated communications' (regular meetings) or some informal event that would be conducive to meeting some of the members of the lodge. Once the person decides that they want to join a specific lodge, they should ask the secretary (or whoever else) for a petition. You fill out the petition and then the lodge will form an 'investigating committee' to meet with you personally to determine whether they would be willing to have you join. The investigating committee then reports their findings at the next stated meeting. The lodge then votes on whether to accept the petition (or not). After the vote, the secretary will notify the applicant and ask them to come to the lodge on a specific date and time for the initiation as an entered apprentice (the first degree).
If there are multiple lodges in your area, I would highly encourage you to visit all of them. Every lodge has its own personality. You might be a good fit for one lodge and a poor fit for another.
Disclosure: I used to be a card-carrying Freemason.
My great grandfather was a Mason, but having grown up Catholic I understand that there's a bit more nuance and trickiness behind it if I wanted to join. I've been curious about it for a while.
I want to preface my answer by saying that these were my experiences. It's very important to point out that not all lodges are the same and not all Grand Lodges (at the state level in US) are the same.
I have to give some context of how things are in the US. At its most basic level, Freemasonry is what you hear Masons refer to as the 'blue lodge'. The blue lodge has 3 degrees. There are a number of affiliated or 'appendant bodies' that tie into the Masonic family. The Scottish Rite has 32 degrees (and a 33rd degree that is bestowed on someone deserving after a number of years and much service). There is also the York Rite. I don't know much about the York Rite because I never belonged to it. Then there is the Shrine - the guys who wear the red fezzes and commonly participate in parades.
At one time, a Mason (3rd degree in blue lodge) had to first belong to either the Scottish Rite or the York Rite BEFORE they were eligible to join the Shrine. To be clear, only Masons can join the Shrine. Back in the early 2000s, the Shrine dropped the requirement that you also belong to either the Scottish Rite or York Rite. Why? Because it was another obstacle to getting new members and they (the Shrine) desperately needed new members to replace the ones who are dying.
[Stepping up on my Masonic soap box for a rant]
The fundamental problem is that there are many who want to join the Shrine just for the fun and partying. (And speaking of fun and partying, they're the only ones who are allowed to have alcohol at their functions.) Remember me saying that to be a Shrine, you first have to be a Mason? Due to pressure from the Shrine, a significant number of lodges have resorted to one-day classes in order to obtain all 3 blue lodge degrees in a single day. Traditionally, they're given one at a time and then the person who received the degree must study and learn some 'proficiency work' that they must be able to demonstrate before being allowed to obtain the next degree. Usually, there is AT LEAST 1 MONTH between each of the 3 blue lodge degrees.
The blue lodge degrees are very special and a person who is planning to become a Master Mason (3rd degree in blue lodge) should be a part of the ritual for each degree. Why? Because it's a very special and solemn ritual and experiencing it first hand, it's easier to learn the proficiency work.
A 1-day class is where they round up about 20 guys and they're herded through the 3 degrees quickly. For each degree ritual, 1 person is selected to be the 'candidate' who actively participates in the ritual. The 19 others only watch it. They don't experience it.
The truth of the matter is that the Shrine has no real Masonic connection, yet they (the Shrine) still require their members to be Masons. So, they (the Shrine) push very hard to get 1-day classes to rush guys through so that they're then eligible to join the Shrine. The Shrine was the only affiliated organization that was allowed to have alcohol at any of their functions. Blue lodge wants to have a 'table lodge' with wine or beer? Forbidden!! This was true in the state where I was. It's possible that other states would allow it.
In summary, because of the Shrine's Masonic requirement for membership, they (the Shrine) watered down the blue lodge by: (1) 1-day classes, and (2) bringing guys through who had NO interest in Freemasonry, but were only there to have fun with the Shrine.
[end of Masonic rant]
Additionally, there was lots of petty bickering. Freemasonry PROMISES a great deal! What you read about the fraternity is impressive. However, walking the walk is not nearly as common. I eventually had enough of it all and dropped out.
Again, what I described above is what I experienced in the state where I was (and I don't want to mention the state). It might be completely different in your state.
Specific rule is they can't solicit new members, as badly as they might wish to. You have to ask. The advice to check out multiple lodges is key, as they really are different. Most of the guys in mine have said they probably wouldn't have joined another one, so they're really that unique. A lot of them have pub nights and lunches where prospective members meet everyone, and having those is a good sign they're growing and lively.
When the work in masonry is good, it lets guys really, really shine. When it's weak, it's hard to watch, but seeing what any mason can do and how well he chooses to do it gives you a lot of perspective on where you are. If anyone from HN does get initiated in the Toronto area, track me down and I will show up for it.
> When the work in masonry is good, it lets guys really, really shine. When it's weak, it's hard to watch, but seeing what any mason can do and how well he chooses to do it gives you a lot of perspective on where you are.
I'm having trouble interpreting what you meant with this excerpt but it sounds interesting. Care to elaborate?
The 'work' in masonry refers to the ritual. There is some ritual involved just in opening and closing a regular meeting. However, there is a lot of ritual involved in the degrees. When the ritual for a degree is executed flawlessly, it's quite beautiful to behold. On the other hand, when those involved with the ritual aren't very good at it, it's quite painful to watch.
Basically, people from all walks of life, which is one of Freemasonry's benefits: It allows you to meet people you wouldn't otherwise have met and get to know their perspectives and points of view.
That said, since its self-proclaimed purpose is to make good people better and a Mason should attempt to become better version of themselves, you'll most likely find people who seek purpose and self-improvement beyond shallow self-optimization (honing your skills is very much encouraged, too, though).
It all depends on the lodge! Many lodges are struggling to stay alive and are desperate for new members. It's not uncommon to find a lodge of mostly really old men where they lose more (to deaths) than they gain from new members.
Local weekly pinball tournaments are an amazing way to meet folks and hang out in a low-pressure social environment.
Since the rounds of the tournament are randomized groups of four, every round is a chance to introduce yourself to three other players and learn each others' names. If you come back regularly, you'll start to recognize and be recognized by the other regulars. Everyone gets to know each other better at a natural and unforced pace.
I've been playing every Wednesday night for about a year, and I like it so much that I'm shifting my work schedule so I can join the same local regulars for a Thursday night tournament at a different arcade too.
I really hope you have the chance to give it a try!
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[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 138 ms ] threadOf course it will not be for everyone, but if you are open to it you can try.
I have seen my congregation rally around new parents, people with mental health conditions, and other such common struggles. Serving others is a great way to feel that you are part of a community. Church can be a great framework for that kind of thing.
We span many past religions and world views. Poor backgrounds and wealthy.
But we all now hold a very similar world view. So we don't have the kind of diversity some people think of. We're not defined by our pasts as much as we are by our common beliefs.
For those who are spiritual but not Christian, there's also the Unitarian Universalist Association: https://www.uua.org/
At any rate, potential friendship is a weak rationalization for joining a religion when there are many avenues to do this.
On the other hand, if you spend time with some people, go and watch the movie together, and talk afterwards, it'll feel a whole lot more impactful and you'll find the shared experience fosters a sense of community if you do it on a regular basis.
Denominations, and individual churches within a church, will definitely all have different levels of cohesiveness and character to their communities. It begins and ends, however, with getting out what you put into it.
Uh, I don't know about you but I've never known anyone leaving a theater try to solicit strangers for conversation. You talk to the people you arrived with.
Everyone is welcome to even attend Mass (they just don't receive communion) and participate in activities that we organize. We also have many support groups for elderly, grieving families, young adults and so on.
Additionally, if you want to do volunteer work, contact the closest Catholic Church. You can join pretty much all of the events regardless of your background.
We are not some "exclusive" membership, the doors are open.
Example: You need a job, you know your great buddy Bob has a spot that you could hop into, he knows you pretty well and that you're not an idiot, so he hires you on the spot into a job you never would've had the qualification for otherwise.
I'm thankful that this is the case for my church, but unfortunately, that's not the case in a lot of churches.
The Church is 2000 years old. It has outlasted basically any other institution that has ever existed in the history of humanity. The things The Church encourages are:
1) Building families
2) Building communities
3) Using these things to make the world a more loving place through volunteerism
It should not be surprising that this is a good place to make friends and connect with your community.
You may say "the doors are open" and in fact they may be in your local church but official membership has requirements, rules to follow and some larger churches also are very much opposed to equality for all humans. I don't believe the Catholic church (or other denominations of Christianity, or Mormon church) would allow a LGBT couple to officially join.
I understand that yours and others experiences don't reflect the entirety of ~1700 years of the organized state religion of the Roman Empire. When we're talking about finding community outside of work, I find large churches will have a facade of community but in practice are not as welcoming to all.
That's not entirely true. No legitimate catholic church would prohibit lgbtq couples from joining. The more conservative ones definitely would not condone their lifestyle, however, and probably none would agree to marry them. So if you are lgbtq you should probably just give some serious thought into more liberal denominations.
The Episcopal Church is very welcoming of LGBTQ people, however. We perform same-sex marriages and ordain LGBTQ people to clergy. My particular parish is marching in a local Pride parade this year.
Denominations are different flavors of Christianity, and which denomination you visit is important. I'm personally a member of "The Episcopal Church," which I find to have a very small amount of dogma and is tolerant of a wide range of beliefs. The theological dogma can be summarized in the "Nicene Creed," which is a pretty short list of what the church holds to be true (and even if you as individual differ, TEC is chill about that). After that, members of The Episcopal Church are more united in what they do together rather than what they believe togther - songs, taking communion, common readings, etc. The Episcopl Church is generally one of the more liberal/progressive churches around (we ordain women and LGBTQ individuals into the clergy and perform same-sex marriages, for example).
Otherwise, it's a nice group of people that I see every week. A lot of churches have a "coffee hour" or a meal after the service, and it's a time to chit chat with others. They care about me and I care about them, and people check in on each other to see how everyone is doing. When we had a baby, people brought us food, and we always get cards in the mail for birthdays and such. It's nice.
Since we're a community of people, we can sometimes work together to accomplish things I wouldn't be able to do on my own. We run a food pantry and we've supported families fleeing from bad situations (and not in abstract sense, but doing the legwork of finding an apartment in town and providing furniture and stuff). One family attends our services, and their kid is about my kid's age, so we've become friends over that.
Again, I know religion can invoke strong feelings, so if the very idea is offputting, leave it alone, it's fine. But for me, it's been a community I've appreciated having.
I’m fine with the concept of the right church because of the community effects especially as a parent and wanting my kid to have as many positive role models as possible in his life; peers/adults/seniors. So after many years of being with my wife, we decided to start when my kid was 4. We actually wanted to start earlier but it’s a hard habit to just introduce, then 2020 happened, etc so here we are. It’s been quite a positive adjustment. It’s easy to see the cult and abuse headlines and write it off, but when done right I still think it’s incredibly powerful and religion as a whole is just a framework for peaceful civilization and coexistence with communities.
I think a lot of the advice like "join the church" or "do an activity" are lost on chronically online people like myself.
For us, it should be "find an online community that makes you challenge yourself to improve", but it's hard to articulate that.
I just don't think someone should live 100% online. Having real life and strong relationships is pretty valuable, also for your mental health.
Been playing for 15 years at all levels, it's amazing!
I guess similar things exist for Golf and pickleball.
I grew up in India and now live in the U.S.
Socializing or being a part of a community is surprisingly very very hard.
I know rather more Indians who play cricket. I think you have to have critical mass to get a cricket team going though... Not everywhere has enough interest.
I was talking about socializing outside of "in groups" which is what I found challenging.
Anecdotally: -drama clubs/local theatre productions -run clubs: while running is typically fairly isolated, there are social run clubs in cities that often go for a drink (no booze necessary) post-run -book clubs: random collections of people that discuss a book together -dinner clubs: sharing food with folks in a way where different people cook for others in turn -partying: most places have a community of folks that enjoy dancing and/or recreationals
Note that I believe that the strong relationships can come from overcoming a shared struggle, so if you can think of something that's difficult and with one or more other person/people, you will probably form a community around it over time (co-founders and cohorts are a great example).
1. family and extended family. Not everyone, but some are great.
2. Communities based on your hobbies or passions; for example, I ride motorcycles and I built a small team that go on tours across Europe and I am in progress to do the same for adventure/offroad bike tours. You can do many others, from hiking or fishing or dancing to flying sports planes, depending on what you love and what you can afford.
It's work related, but not directly
Outside of that, I don't really have much of a community. I sometimes go to local meetup groups for fun. However, I feel like these are usually a waste of time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At the right gym you'll also find community.
Separately just being a regular at a bar is a very good way to get to know people, again you need to find the right spot.
I'm not religious but I know many people who find community there. Other places I've seen friends have success are gaming guilds/circles and fraternities (Mason lodges, etc.)
Speaking of which I grow my friend circle by meeting friends of friends and then developing my own first order friendships with them.
Check this list [0], maybe there is one close to you – and if you by any chance live in Oslo – swing by Hackeriet [1].
[0] https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/List_of_Hacker_Spaces
[1] https://hackeriet.no/index.en.html
Im quite active at https://k-space.ee in Tallinn, Estonia.
I've been trying to find a space that has a similar energy as my old university CS lab. There was a bit of a perfect time in my final year, whereafter 2+ years most people seemed to know each other and at the same time everyone was specialising in their degree. So you could walk into the lab and find people working deep in their own game engine code, others would be working on ML models and others may be working on mobile apps or websites. But with a sense of overall camaraderie and sharing of what you're working on and why.
I suppose it just sounds like I'm describing something like a WeWork but when I've attended those they seem much more employee focused and I rarely saw employees of different companies talk to each other.
I also realise that some of what I describe is often fulfilled by talking to others at your workplace, I'm fully remote so I am missing out on that part.
If anyone knows of anything similar to what I describe above in or near London feel free to reach out to the email in my profile!
[0]: https://chaitinschool.org/
For what you're more closely describing I've found local programming meetups in a few major cities that happen at local bars and restaurants to be like that, mostly just people coming in and working on their projects (Either personal or together), maybe not on the same level as what you had in uni but definitely worth checking out too.
In hackerspaces, I find that software-focused people have different patterns of use than tool focused people. They need to sit down for some focus time, which is hard to distinguish from just browsing from afar. When people use tools, it's clear to see. Speaking from experience with SF/Noisebridge, Oakland/SudoRoom-Omni-commons, Sacramento/Hacker Lab, and visiting some spaces while traveling.
Music festivals with camping are magical ways to build community and inspire yourself around other like minded and curious people. I never attended these events until a near death experience prioritized my love of dancing in my early 30. Now nearly 10 years later I'm even more convinced this is the way.
I wasn’t athletic before I started running and I wasn’t a dancer before I started square dancing, so I think an important aspect is stepping out of your comfort zone yo try something new.
Sadly, in my experience, few Coworking spaces provide the things good communities provide.
I recommend trying all the Coworking spaces near you until you find the one that feels right.
Like good coffee shops, it’s usually the ones that aren’t part of a chain that are best. High-end interior design, flashy marketing and all the amenities you can imagine aren’t the things that matter.
I don't really have the time to venture far from the house for hobbies, so most of mine revolve around dogs/gardening and electronics tinkering that I do inside the house.
And obviously hanging out with long time friends.
The Choruses tab here[1] is a good place to start. This[2] may be a little outdated. Or just Google.
[1] https://chorusamerica.org/member_directory
[2] https://www.singers.com/lists/choral-groups/
a PSA from HN's lurking choral director
I've never been happier in my life, and the sense of purpose, community, and security has never been higher. I won't espouse any religious teachings here, that's what the link above is for should you choose to visit it.
The most amazing part is that it's genuine and trustworthy. It's all made of imperfect humans to be sure, but you'll be hard pressed to find more trustworthy people who show a sincere genuine interest and truly care.
The difference between this and say, a rec soccer team, is that it's an all-or-nothing endeavor. You can't "casually" become a Jehovah's Witness (or any other religion), you have to decide that your entire life is aligned to those principles.
I'm not knocking it (here, anyway), but I would hesitate to join a religion to make friends.
I don't know anything about Jehovah's Witnesses but certainly there are a lot of religions that are comfortable with people coming by out of curiosity and/or participating sporadically.
I think that's how most people do it.
If you want to find out what we actually believe: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovahs-witnes...
How's this: "literally expect you to die if you're in need of a blood transfusion to survive". Seems pretty much in line what what you espouse.
Lets say all of those "transfusion alternatives" demonstrably fail, and someone has two choices left: Transfuse or Die; you might phrase that as "Transfuse or Pray", but either way...
...What then? When all other options are exhausted, the prayers aren't working, and your last chance to live involves transfusions, are they permissible?
That doesn't make it easy, but if one truly believes something, shouldn't they be be willing to make sacrifices for it? People don't think twice about giving their life for their country, so why would somebody be any less convicted?
Now replace Santa with God, this is what atheists believe...
I know at least for the Christian based religious groups I'm aware of, you don't even need to share faith to be part of the community.
Believe it or not, they don't get into fist fights when they meet someone of another faith either.
And you're right; warring religious groups don't use fists...
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_congrega...
That’s not a thing. They’re probably among the worst examples of religion as a hobby.
I also have known "Catholic-lite" adherents, but they ultimately identify as Catholic. Anyway some of the minor sects don't take the distinctions between theirs and others lightly.
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/boy-dies-after-re...
Nobody joins for purely the social aspect. "All or nothing" is fairly accurate.
Sounds like any friend/social group that has strong political beliefs too? Was enlightening to see this in 2016 when I shared I didn't vote for Hillary. Heaven forbid I voted libertarian, was like having a scarlet letter on my chest.
Also good for your friends, they were right.
She somehow ended up giving talks at church events and got invited to speak out of town (she would talk about subjects such as helping refugees etc).
Eventually though she felt like she was being excluded in subtle ways and being asked to give too much of her time.
I also went to a couplebbible reading events some years back (free food lol) as my gf used to be religious and wanted me to go along.
Everyone was nice, food was good, but I couldn't get over how everyone in the group would listen to a story (which would literally make zero sense) and swallow it down as if it was a bed time story.
Religion is weird.
I think it's fair to say that there are people who:
{believe | disbelieve} x {true things | false things} x {for good reasons | for bad reasons}.
Deciding what's true can be a challenge.
It's not too hard when you hear ridiculous stories and treat them as if they were to happen today.
The one I remember from the church event was about a big guy that couldn't be subdued and then ended up breaking through chains.
So many questions from a single statement. Everyone else literally sat there and didn't blink an eye.
Maybe it hinges on which parts of the stories you imagining happening today.
E.g., if Jesus rose from the dead next week, I'd find it pretty thought-provoking. If he were merely crucified but stayed dead, I'd cross Christianity of my list of plausible world views.
I.e., a lot really depends on whether or not those miraculous events actually happened.
In today’s environment, how would you evaluate the truth value of a claim like that? It seems like the only way to 100% convinced of the truth would be as a first-hand witness, unless there was some kind of detailed and airtight evaluation.
Maybe the foundation document for the next world religion will be a 100-page paper that definitely establishes causality.
Most faith communities I’ve been part of have had some form of space for questions and encouraged discussion about stories they have heard. I’ve found probably 1 in 10 people would start a discussion about this and maybe half would engage with it, suggesting community is a big part of the draw but also that for a significant minority, community is centred on some of these “big if they were to happen today” events.
I do think wrestling with our reality to understand the nature of the world is a pretty powerful force for creating meaningful relationships! But this depth can also be uncomfortable or abstract at times.
[1]: http://mliccione.blogspot.com/2006/11/apropos-of-episcopal-p...
I could be a white supremacist and find great fellowship with other white supremacists but this would be destructive in the long run, in the short term to others due to my prejudice but in the longer term to myself because those beliefs are objectively abhorrent. But not all shared belief systems are abhorrent.
Instead, groups of people for centuries have found camaraderie exploring what it means to follow a certain historical figure, Jesus Christ. Looking at his teachings you can see that this will lead to vastly different outcomes than following a Joseph Smith, a Muhammad, a Richard Dawkins, etc.
For that matter, it's debatable whether or not the believers actually believe things. They probably wonder themselves sometimes. They don't often make a big deal out of it, if they do find themselves no longer believing... and there is a conceptual framework built into the religion (that of "loss of faith").
Like the ancient religions, being willing to perform the rituals non-cynically is really the only requirement. You and everyone else already perform dozens of non-religious rituals and think nothing of it. What's a few more?
I mean, don't do it if you don't want to. But don't pretend the option's not open to you. Even if there's a clever believer there that somehow reads your mind, you're not unwelcome at most of these places even then.
>but for folks who care about reality
You tried
The reason I ask is that there are a lot of people recommending churches (of various kinds) in this thread, and I take it most of the non-religious among us would very much not be comfortable regularly attending a religious organization's meetings purely for community, while not believing any the things that organization believes. (With the exception of religious organizations that are explicitly accepting of people with any faith, such as Unitarian Universalists.)
To me, it's sort of implicit in the question that what we are looking for is something you can show up to and get involved purely because you want somewhere to show up and get involved, without people side-eyeing you because of that or expecting something more than that (like a declaration of faith) in the months or years to come.
Some people think that because many of us have left other ways behind that we're fanatical or something- nope, we just found something that makes more sense to us than anything else, and genuinely believe we've found the things most others are still looking for- meaning to life, answers to why things are the way they are, and a secure future.
We're welcoming of anybody who wants to visit and check us out. We expect that if somebody doesn't want to share in our beliefs that they'll probably move on, and that's fine. We aren't about membership, we're about showing people what the Bible says about things.
To that end, we've re-evaluated the Bible without any pre-conceptions, which is why a lot of other religious that believe in things like the Trinity or the immortal soul look at us as heretical or crazy. But, when we objectively looked at the Bible (KJV originally) we didn't find those things, so we don't believe them. Pretty simple really.
Kinda reminds me of what the Christadelphians say about themselves as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christadelphians
Might be interesting to look at a point-by-point comparison between JW and Christadelphians.
Some meetings are intended as outreach to non-Christians. E.g., to present reasons for being Christian, or to let outsiders see what a typical worship service is actually like.
Some meetings (or parts of meetings) only make sense for actual Christians: singing worship songs, testifying what they believe God is doing in the world, or taking communion.
I think a lot of awkward discomfort stems from lack of clarity on these points, and confusion about which attendees are professing Christians.
...until you decide it's not for you and you are summarily kicked out and effectively exiled.
I am glad it works for you but JW acts like cult, and probably is a cult. I've seen first hand the damage it does to people who choose to no longer partake.
From this source: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4zzruz/iama_exjehovah...
'Those who leave the faith are called "apostates" and are "disfellowshipped", a term for formal expulsion and shunning, where members are "prohibited from talking, and even from saying 'hello' to them".
You could say this community is implicitly a secular one, but OP's answer frames things within HN's guidelines.
I guess in the spirit of HN's intellectual curiosity, we should at least acknowledge alternative life experiences here.
If there are multiple lodges in your area, I would highly encourage you to visit all of them. Every lodge has its own personality. You might be a good fit for one lodge and a poor fit for another.
Disclosure: I used to be a card-carrying Freemason.
My great grandfather was a Mason, but having grown up Catholic I understand that there's a bit more nuance and trickiness behind it if I wanted to join. I've been curious about it for a while.
I have to give some context of how things are in the US. At its most basic level, Freemasonry is what you hear Masons refer to as the 'blue lodge'. The blue lodge has 3 degrees. There are a number of affiliated or 'appendant bodies' that tie into the Masonic family. The Scottish Rite has 32 degrees (and a 33rd degree that is bestowed on someone deserving after a number of years and much service). There is also the York Rite. I don't know much about the York Rite because I never belonged to it. Then there is the Shrine - the guys who wear the red fezzes and commonly participate in parades.
At one time, a Mason (3rd degree in blue lodge) had to first belong to either the Scottish Rite or the York Rite BEFORE they were eligible to join the Shrine. To be clear, only Masons can join the Shrine. Back in the early 2000s, the Shrine dropped the requirement that you also belong to either the Scottish Rite or York Rite. Why? Because it was another obstacle to getting new members and they (the Shrine) desperately needed new members to replace the ones who are dying.
[Stepping up on my Masonic soap box for a rant] The fundamental problem is that there are many who want to join the Shrine just for the fun and partying. (And speaking of fun and partying, they're the only ones who are allowed to have alcohol at their functions.) Remember me saying that to be a Shrine, you first have to be a Mason? Due to pressure from the Shrine, a significant number of lodges have resorted to one-day classes in order to obtain all 3 blue lodge degrees in a single day. Traditionally, they're given one at a time and then the person who received the degree must study and learn some 'proficiency work' that they must be able to demonstrate before being allowed to obtain the next degree. Usually, there is AT LEAST 1 MONTH between each of the 3 blue lodge degrees.
The blue lodge degrees are very special and a person who is planning to become a Master Mason (3rd degree in blue lodge) should be a part of the ritual for each degree. Why? Because it's a very special and solemn ritual and experiencing it first hand, it's easier to learn the proficiency work.
A 1-day class is where they round up about 20 guys and they're herded through the 3 degrees quickly. For each degree ritual, 1 person is selected to be the 'candidate' who actively participates in the ritual. The 19 others only watch it. They don't experience it.
The truth of the matter is that the Shrine has no real Masonic connection, yet they (the Shrine) still require their members to be Masons. So, they (the Shrine) push very hard to get 1-day classes to rush guys through so that they're then eligible to join the Shrine. The Shrine was the only affiliated organization that was allowed to have alcohol at any of their functions. Blue lodge wants to have a 'table lodge' with wine or beer? Forbidden!! This was true in the state where I was. It's possible that other states would allow it.
In summary, because of the Shrine's Masonic requirement for membership, they (the Shrine) watered down the blue lodge by: (1) 1-day classes, and (2) bringing guys through who had NO interest in Freemasonry, but were only there to have fun with the Shrine. [end of Masonic rant]
Additionally, there was lots of petty bickering. Freemasonry PROMISES a great deal! What you read about the fraternity is impressive. However, walking the walk is not nearly as common. I eventually had enough of it all and dropped out.
Again, what I described above is what I experienced in the state where I was (and I don't want to mention the state). It might be completely different in your state.
When the work in masonry is good, it lets guys really, really shine. When it's weak, it's hard to watch, but seeing what any mason can do and how well he chooses to do it gives you a lot of perspective on where you are. If anyone from HN does get initiated in the Toronto area, track me down and I will show up for it.
I'm having trouble interpreting what you meant with this excerpt but it sounds interesting. Care to elaborate?
Edited - fix typo
That said, since its self-proclaimed purpose is to make good people better and a Mason should attempt to become better version of themselves, you'll most likely find people who seek purpose and self-improvement beyond shallow self-optimization (honing your skills is very much encouraged, too, though).
Since the rounds of the tournament are randomized groups of four, every round is a chance to introduce yourself to three other players and learn each others' names. If you come back regularly, you'll start to recognize and be recognized by the other regulars. Everyone gets to know each other better at a natural and unforced pace.
I've been playing every Wednesday night for about a year, and I like it so much that I'm shifting my work schedule so I can join the same local regulars for a Thursday night tournament at a different arcade too.
I really hope you have the chance to give it a try!
You can find tournaments in your area at: https://www.ifpapinball.com/calendar/#