From another perspective, My views were considered left in the early 2000s. Now that our culture and many aspects of our government has shifted further and further to the left in the past couple of years, my views are considered more right-wing.
What I would consider "Left" is so far from what conservatives call leftists right now. Even the democrats are essentially conservative now. No one even wants to touch the boat, much less rock it. Liberals have become conservatives, conservatives have become reactionaries. It's brutal for leftists...
I don't know why you think that our government has shifted left. Unions are being strangled, rights are being revoked, cost of living for necessities is going up, social programs are being cut off, and everything left is being destroyed piece by piece. The only possible left shift is maybe some social issues. The days of the trusts and robber barons seem to be coming back.
In one comment you "don't want to discuss" politics but yet you are throwing loaded statement "authoritarian left" and are unwilling to back up such claims or discuss it because you will be attacked. What is the point?
Again, I'm not going to be goaded into discourse only to be digitally shouted down via a massive downvote. This already should say a lot about the current state of our culture (and politics).
Sorry Comrade, I didn't know that the authoritarian left had taken over. You will be re-assigned to work in Ohio as a bread maker tomorrow. Please say goodbye to your family and pack your bags. The worker train will be waiting at the station at 2PM tomorrow. Good luck! Long live the great leader and the workers revolution!
Edit: It has been brought to my attention that the workers revolution has not occurred and we are ruled by capitalist dogs. Please disregard the above. Also, there is no train station because it was bulldozed to make way for the expansion of highway 19257.
Edit 2: Apparently bread was banned in Ohio because someone put a rainbow flag on it. Please disregard bread. Go woke go broke.
Edit 3: Please do not shoot the rainbow bread without making sure that the Bug Light beers you are using for a backstop is not in front of a preschool. I repeat, please stop shooting schools.
Socially things have definitely moved left. Pick $SEX_THING, consider its status now relative to 10/20/30 years ago and it should be pretty obvious.
Economically it's...weird, and you could argue that it hasn't really made leftists or rightists happy. That Nikon link the other day (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36131319) --- that doesn't seem to be what White Fascists For Swole America or Free Citizens of Stolen Native Land want. Corporatist is how I'd describe the econ policies of...since I can remember.
I agree that a lot of progress has been made with regards to sexuality. I think mostly because the sex things didn't threaten the status quo in any significant way. It was a useful distraction from the actual crimes being committed. Sub-prime mortgages, military contracts, offshoring, selling secrets, taking money from hostile foreign powers, regulating away competition, not enforcing anti-trust laws, protecting friends from the law, etc...
But what substantive changes have we made progress in on the left in the last 30 years that required even the smallest sacrifice on the part of the elite? Health care reform? Still private and more expensive than ever. Affordable housing? Ha! Improved working conditions? Nope. Expanding social programs? Nope, even less entitlements. Decreasing retirement age? Bringing equity to oppressed minorities? Reducing imprisonment?
Culture i can grant you (but we probably disagree on the importance of a lot of that), but what parts of the government have become "more left"? Can you point to specific policies?
Fair, I understand these are hard to talk about without getting attacked. I'm legit curious, when I read your comment I couldn't think of a single "left" thing the government had done recently outside of covid relief payments or student loan stuff but that's not really enough to make for a historical trend
> I'm legit curious, when I read your comment I couldn't think of a single "left" thing the government had done recently
Depends on which governments you're talking about but here's some things I think are becoming more commonplace and are generally considered Left or Progressive policies
* Banning single use plastics
* Investing in renewable energy
* Running UBI trials
* Carbon taxes
* Investing in safe injection sites
* Any number of pro-LGBTQ policies
* High Immigration numbers / refugee support
Of course these vary regionally wildly, and in many places in the USA are actually being reversed instead of progressing.
But I think in many places outside of the USA these types of policies are become much more common
> I can't believe you are even being serious right now. I should have also specified. We are now being ruled by the authoritarian left, which is different than the classical left.
I'm replying to this here since the comment itself is flagged and dead.
Out of curiosity: What makes you think this way?
The only differences I see among the candidates are within the realm of social issues.
Moderate left-leaning economic policies (e.g., 90%+ capital gains tax and the reinstatement of the pre-1980s welfare system) aren't anywhere to be found among the current Democratic politicians.
True leftist policies would be considered pipe-dreams by even Bernie Sanders.
Is it possible that your views in the early 2000s weren't truly "Left", but just like... "left-leaning on social issues"?
Any sensible writing of the policy would come with reasonable bounds in order to not hurt citizens surviving primarily on time & skill capital.
The clear targets of such a policy would still be filthy rich with only 10% gains.
I'd wager that most left-leaning persons would be in favor of reducing the entirety of the capital class to "rich, but not rich enough to control the government or buy entire countries". If most would be in favor of it, then referring to it as a moderate policy is reasonable.
A policy like this would be the first step in applying a strong band-pass filter to our "income inequality"^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcapital distribution problem.
> I think I see the problem here…
I mean, shit, it's not a forced redistribution policy like what's championed on the left proper.
Do you know what Leftists actually support or are you under the belief that American Liberals are Leftist and that the left is all about flags, gender identity, and student loan debt relief?
>Any sensible writing of the policy would come with reasonable bounds
Oh, so we presume that our left policymakers are sensible and reasonable?
There's a joke about economists where the punchline is "assume a can opener..."
>If most would be in favor of it, then referring to it as a moderate policy is reasonable.
A supermajority of Labrador Retrievers in my household believe that a eating a 12oz can of Crisco from the pantry is a fine moderate lunch, but that eating the 2lb can would be unreasonable.
>are you under the belief that American Liberals are Leftist and that the left is all about flags, gender identity, and student loan debt relief?
The Old Left && its economic policy prescriptions have been a dead letter in the US since the '90s. The cultural focus is more useful to peel off blocs who might be inclined to vote, as an afterthought, for a redistributive economic policy.
What a wonderfully insightful comment, as is to be expect of modern HackerNews. I'm sure your understanding of "the left" is very well researched and thorough.
"The right is so angry, ignorant and willfully uninformed." /s
Note that this is looking at voting patterns, not surveys on political beliefs. So a lower proportion of millennials voted for Biden in 2020 than they did for Obama in 2012. This could have more to do with the Democrats being viewed as corrupt than it does with Millenials actually liking conservative politics.
I really wish politics could be about discussing policy, rather than this endless football-tier obsession with "teams". The worst part about American politics (Anglosphere politics in general) is that every single political discussion devolves into shouting and insults, because people have made their political group their identity. It's harrowing, and I don't know how we can change this.
Not everyone is like that, but the average person is stupid and yes this includes individuals in the hackernews space. People who are unwilling to discuss policies and just want to shout and repeat political propaganda are just not good people to associate with in general.
Policy discussion is healthy. Supporting your political "team" is stupid.
The NYT doesn’t mention that white people of all generations lean republican, and non-white people of all generations are strongly for democrats. White millennials identify as or lean republican 45% to 43%, while non-white millennials identify as democrats, 61% to 23%.
This is important because as the population is getting more diverse, gerrymandering districts and suppressing non-white votes are more important than ever for republicans.
"This is important because as the population is getting more diverse, gerrymandering districts and suppressing non-white votes are more important than ever for republicans."
That would seem reasonable. If Republican is to be taken as Conservative, then if you are wanting to keep things to how you're used to it then suppressing votes is a natural way to achieve that.
I don’t think it’s simply a race issue. It’s more about urban versus rural. Look at just about any US election map and it’s a sea of red with a couple of big blue sprinkles where all the major cities are. Minorities are heavily concentrated in the cities.
Also, people of nearly all demographics become more conservative as they age. This makes sense, because the more you have, the more you want to maintain and protect your current way of life. Those who are young and/or poor are much more interested in pursuing changes to the system as they have less to lose and everything to gain.
This PhD Student's data analysis project provides clear evidence on the effort by major news & entertainment media to shift the political culture.
"1/n Spent some time on LexisNexis over the weekend. Depending on your political orientation, what follows will either disturb or encourage you. But regardless of political orientation, I'm sure we can all say 'holy fucking shit'"
36 comments
[ 6.1 ms ] story [ 75.4 ms ] threadI don't know why you think that our government has shifted left. Unions are being strangled, rights are being revoked, cost of living for necessities is going up, social programs are being cut off, and everything left is being destroyed piece by piece. The only possible left shift is maybe some social issues. The days of the trusts and robber barons seem to be coming back.
Edit: It has been brought to my attention that the workers revolution has not occurred and we are ruled by capitalist dogs. Please disregard the above. Also, there is no train station because it was bulldozed to make way for the expansion of highway 19257.
Edit 2: Apparently bread was banned in Ohio because someone put a rainbow flag on it. Please disregard bread. Go woke go broke.
Edit 3: Please do not shoot the rainbow bread without making sure that the Bug Light beers you are using for a backstop is not in front of a preschool. I repeat, please stop shooting schools.
Economically it's...weird, and you could argue that it hasn't really made leftists or rightists happy. That Nikon link the other day (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36131319) --- that doesn't seem to be what White Fascists For Swole America or Free Citizens of Stolen Native Land want. Corporatist is how I'd describe the econ policies of...since I can remember.
But what substantive changes have we made progress in on the left in the last 30 years that required even the smallest sacrifice on the part of the elite? Health care reform? Still private and more expensive than ever. Affordable housing? Ha! Improved working conditions? Nope. Expanding social programs? Nope, even less entitlements. Decreasing retirement age? Bringing equity to oppressed minorities? Reducing imprisonment?
Depends on which governments you're talking about but here's some things I think are becoming more commonplace and are generally considered Left or Progressive policies
* Banning single use plastics * Investing in renewable energy * Running UBI trials * Carbon taxes * Investing in safe injection sites * Any number of pro-LGBTQ policies * High Immigration numbers / refugee support
Of course these vary regionally wildly, and in many places in the USA are actually being reversed instead of progressing.
But I think in many places outside of the USA these types of policies are become much more common
edit: immigration is an interesting one. Leftists want it for a variety of reasons, and usually right-leaning uber-capitalists want it to lower wages
Yes, but they will implement policies that are hostile to immigration as a result because they give too much power to employers.
Leftist is more "open the doors and let them in"
I'm replying to this here since the comment itself is flagged and dead.
Out of curiosity: What makes you think this way?
The only differences I see among the candidates are within the realm of social issues.
Moderate left-leaning economic policies (e.g., 90%+ capital gains tax and the reinstatement of the pre-1980s welfare system) aren't anywhere to be found among the current Democratic politicians.
True leftist policies would be considered pipe-dreams by even Bernie Sanders.
Is it possible that your views in the early 2000s weren't truly "Left", but just like... "left-leaning on social issues"?
I think I see the problem here…
The clear targets of such a policy would still be filthy rich with only 10% gains.
I'd wager that most left-leaning persons would be in favor of reducing the entirety of the capital class to "rich, but not rich enough to control the government or buy entire countries". If most would be in favor of it, then referring to it as a moderate policy is reasonable.
A policy like this would be the first step in applying a strong band-pass filter to our "income inequality"^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcapital distribution problem.
> I think I see the problem here…
I mean, shit, it's not a forced redistribution policy like what's championed on the left proper.
Do you know what Leftists actually support or are you under the belief that American Liberals are Leftist and that the left is all about flags, gender identity, and student loan debt relief?
Oh, so we presume that our left policymakers are sensible and reasonable?
There's a joke about economists where the punchline is "assume a can opener..."
>If most would be in favor of it, then referring to it as a moderate policy is reasonable.
A supermajority of Labrador Retrievers in my household believe that a eating a 12oz can of Crisco from the pantry is a fine moderate lunch, but that eating the 2lb can would be unreasonable.
>are you under the belief that American Liberals are Leftist and that the left is all about flags, gender identity, and student loan debt relief?
The Old Left && its economic policy prescriptions have been a dead letter in the US since the '90s. The cultural focus is more useful to peel off blocs who might be inclined to vote, as an afterthought, for a redistributive economic policy.
"The right is so angry, ignorant and willfully uninformed." /s
Policy discussion is healthy. Supporting your political "team" is stupid.
This is important because as the population is getting more diverse, gerrymandering districts and suppressing non-white votes are more important than ever for republicans.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-...
That would seem reasonable. If Republican is to be taken as Conservative, then if you are wanting to keep things to how you're used to it then suppressing votes is a natural way to achieve that.
Also, people of nearly all demographics become more conservative as they age. This makes sense, because the more you have, the more you want to maintain and protect your current way of life. Those who are young and/or poor are much more interested in pursuing changes to the system as they have less to lose and everything to gain.
It would be interesting to see if they can separate that effect and it's rebound out.
This PhD Student's data analysis project provides clear evidence on the effort by major news & entertainment media to shift the political culture.
"1/n Spent some time on LexisNexis over the weekend. Depending on your political orientation, what follows will either disturb or encourage you. But regardless of political orientation, I'm sure we can all say 'holy fucking shit'"
https://twitter.com/zachg932/status/1133440945201061888?s=11
Source: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/06/th...
The result... An attempt to shift the Overton window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
The whole batch of millennials won't be graduating to 40, till 2036. Atleast, wait till then.