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I like the idea of cataloging all my possessions. It seems like a nice way to put that particular necessity of life (owning things) in a box that can be neatly put away when you don't want to think about it and quantify/measure it in a way that lets you manage it (I don't want to own 200 things, etc). It also seems like it would be helpful for legal situations like a manifest for a house fire or a will.
This is something I like about backpacking / camping. I make a mini-list of everything I bring with me, consider each item, and then know exactly what I have as I set off. Doing it for all my possessions is probably too hard.
You can also catalog when you use something - many things we own are once a month or year items - and some can be replaced with a rental or hiring out.
I've done this, and it's very liberating. Basically, all things I own, including consumables, fit inside a small Org file. It's less than 100 items. I went this route because I wanted to emphasize some good habits, and de-emphasize things that I considered less valuable.

The process I went through was basically thinking about my core habits, mapping said habits to some objects, and then thinking about extra objects to support those habits. After that, I slowly started purchasing what I needed. Timing was great, because I sync'd that with moving countries. I spent some effort thinking about quality of individual purchases, and I ended up with a very minimal home, which is also great for maintenance.

Something I am curious about. Does this list would include tools and all the thousands of parts and pieces one accumulates over the year when hobbying around?
I relocated and I no longer have any hobbies that involve tools.

For a different lifestyle, this list would be much longer and that is fine.

There is nothing special about having just 100 items.

>There is nothing special about having just 100 items.

Depending on where you are located geographically there may very well be something special.

I live in the PNW and I bet if I counted all my forks, spoons, coffee cups, pots and pans, etc., I'd have more than 100 items right there, to say nothing about my tool chest. Between my home office and my wife's purse I probably have 100 pens and pencils around the house.

To own a grand total of 100 items would be extremely spartan for just about anyone around here.

I meant it's nothing to brag about. I agree that in many situations, it'd be inconvenient to own so few items as it'd leave you unprepared for e.g. emergencies.

But if you are renting a condo downtown, as it was my case, you may want to trim down your possessions as much as possible.

Nonetheless, I think people tend to own too much stuff and this prevents focusing on what actually matters, it's a bit like with bloated software.

>Nonetheless, I think people tend to own too much stuff and this prevents focusing on what actually matters

On this I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's very easy to accumulate cruft that one "might need later". I have a whole toolbox full of that shit. I might actually need a bunch of random capacitors, who knows?

My minimal backpack camping checklist has 25-50 items on it, and that's with counting "first aid kit" as one thing, "tent pegs" as one thing, not counting clothing I'm wearing, "food" as 1 item, etc.

There is no way that an adult has 100 things inside an entire flat they eat, work, leisure, and sleep in. I assume that they mean 100 valuable things that they wouldn't want to just lose.

You never know, some people go to extremes. One fork, one toothbrush, one sleeping bag, one laptop, one credit card, done. Toothbrush doubles as a shower brush and credit card is used to scrape off water instead of a towel.
Lol.

Of course, the shower isn't yours so it doesn't count. Using this, we can get rid of the sleeping bag and just roll up the carpet in the rented flat and sleep in that.

What else can we cut?

Toothpaste. We have soap/shampoo.
No no, dirt works perfectly as a natural scrubbing agent.
It's funny this came up. I ended up writing a small webapp that runs locally and allows me to catalog my tools, parts and other important odds and ends in a SQLite database (and attach datasheets and other information I've picked up along the way). I'm almost certainly the opposite of a minimalist, but going through and actually documenting what I have, where I put it, and sometimes what it was intended for, has been incredibly useful, especially being able to use full text search to quickly look up things.
I have an inventory.yml. It’s not complete yet but every now and then I extend it. I put everything there and belongs together in a meaningful way. For example, AirPods. I don’t list each one and the case but just AirPods. I also note when I bought it and what it costs.
related useful post about insurance and keeping track of your possessions https://www.reddit.com/r/Tennessee/comments/fdju8r/cookevill...
My Hack: For insurance don't try and catalog everything in a spreadsheet or such; you're prematurely optimizing for a rare event that hopefully will never happen, you'll miss stuff or forget important details and it's impossible to keep it up to date.

Once a year walk through every room in your house with a video camera, openning all drawers and closets and record it all. Drop your 20-plus gigs of high-dev video somewhere (I use AWS glacier for pennies a month) and then IF you ever need to, you can painfully go through it and catalog everything.

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> I even keep a record of all my worldly possessions in a visual catalogue spreadsheet on Airtable. 192 items at my last count.

> I don't count hoodies, t-shirts, socks or usb cables but I really don't own many. I count a pair of shoes in a box as 1 item.

Huh? Either you're counting things or you're not. Saying you own 192 items except for the 800 (?) you're not counting doesn't make a lot of sense. Why are shoes an item but socks aren't?

192 makes no sense to me. I've probably got 192 items in my kitchen alone, just from wanting to be able to cook and serve a meal for 4 people because it's nice to eat with friends. A fork is a worldly possession, after all.

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I have two items because I count my house as one and my car as the other.
You also have keys to each so that's at least 4 items, and then your clothes and computer, i'm sure you have soap and toothbrush and toothpaste, and hopefully you have toilet paper and a bed, and having a bed means you likely have a pillow, pillow cover, sheet, blanket, and mattress, etc
I count all those as parts of the above!

(Counting owned items can get entirely silly).

I don't own anything at all, but my wife sure does have a lot of stuff I use often that she never uses, and happen to be in a men's large.
G. Gordon Liddy of Watergate fame once said something on his radio show along the lines of "well, as a convicted felon, I'm not allowed to own firearms. However, Mrs. Liddy has a large collection that she occasionally allows me to use under her supervision."
If you would like to reduce the number of possessions you own by 50% you could park your car in the garage. You're welcome.
>192 makes no sense to me. I've probably got 192 items in my kitchen alone, just from wanting to be able to cook and serve a meal for 4 people because it's nice to eat with friends. A fork is a worldly possession, after all.

You're assuming people are the same as you - I follow the same but I live out of suitcases and can travel at a moments notice for the best flights and pick up an airbnb somewhere.

But this is the life I want - literally 95% of my things fit in 2 suit cases, a third is my bike and a bike is a bike thought if you want to get really technical you can count the wheels, the brakes, the brake rotors, the frame, chain, groupset, etc as different but together it's a bike (and a bike bag!) but I do count the clothes/water bottles, etc.

It's also so cool because you can use pivot tables to group items into necessary or not - so if you want to wing just a one backpack 25-40l trip, you know what to grab and also the rolling cost of items associated too - and for more fun, deprecation, purchase cost, etc.

I enjoy it, but thats the spirit, a pair of socks = 1 or do you have 12 socks?

Can't people who live out of chests of drawers and closets also "travel at a moments [sic] notice for the best flights"?
Suitcase, chest, drawers, yes - it's just the thinking and not having "possessions."

The bigger takeaway is learning what keeps you grounded or anchored. Nothing is wrong with that - can be family, can be cars, can be real estate/houses, can be business, etc.

The idea is you inventory your life and see what is the most minimal you need (haha, MVP basically.) and go from there.

You can do it for spending, you can do it for consumption via money, diet - eating/consumption/purchasing,etc.

It's fun, I enjoy keeping an inventory list, knowing what I have where and for larger valued items, e.g. $500+ I can put in last time usage so if I don't need it, I sell it - lower value items giveaway/free.

For me, I've live in the PNW too - and it's quite fun to just have a suitcase/duffel bag, and just camp out in my car or drive somewhere new and do that - or like I said above, hop on a flight and have everything I need for the duration of my stay.

I get it can sound boring or non-exciting to many people, but once you get into it - it really is fascinating. What things do you need for everyday life?

Up in the air had a great segment about it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsRP9EUrXjo I haven't read the book, but I should - I've been seeing it quite a bit.

Is the idea that you're renting apartments and counting the pots and pans, toilet brush etc as not being yours because you leave them with the house?

So my bath mat is "mine" because I own the house and had to buy it myself, but yours isn't because it's rented?

Because if we can cut that out then yeah, now I own far fewer things. It seems like a weird distinction to make.

It can be - if you do a STR/Airbnb/Hotel, the pots and pans should come with the place and they're not yours. Many hotels do include the above, especially mid to higher end ones.

If you're renting on a standard long term lease - not short term rental, and it isn't furnished with them, yes they're yours because you bought them.

It's up to you what you want to "count", but toiletries are like petty cash. Pots/Pans can have realistic value, and the rabbit hole for them goes deep from cheap iron, stainless steel, ikea standard purchase, etc.

The idea is to take a break, catalog what you have and go from there. You can catalog 1000+ items and just get rid of ten but then you know "oh just ten items were fluff" vs not knowing or getting rid of 200.

The idea is the exercise.

So if I rent everything, I can live my exact same lifestyle but be called a minimalist?
Minimalist is just a self-identified label, so you're welcome to call yourself a minimalist if you feel that it fits.

You don't have to look for some technical workaround to some exact definition here, and pedantically arguing about descriptive terms can get tiring real quick.

Maybe you're not trying to be pedantic and are coming from a place of curiosity, and I do apologize for my tone if that's the case. It is coming off as sounding a little "debate-bro" though.

And, really, don't we all rent everything?
Most people buy everything, even their homes, using rented money!
You don't own it - its furniture, comes with the house - it's the lifestyle itself. While you technically seem correct on it, you're missing the point.
I make a distinction between things I have sentimental attachment to, important or expensive to replace vs things that are not.

I wouldn’t count all my dinner plates and cutlery as “possessions” as such, but I’d count my good knives.

Those are "prized possessions". Possession means property. If you own it, and would have to pack it up and take it with you when you moved, it's a possession.
Well you see I have a mortgage and if I walked away they would take everything within the house thus I don't own anything other than the clothing on my back.

Same with the cars.

wanting to be able to cook and serve a meal for 4 people because it's nice to eat with friends

Don’t be silly, having three friends is hardly minimalist. Have you ever considered how friends weigh you down? One is more than enough, and frankly even that might be too many.

Yeah and he’d have to list his friends on his airtable bringing him dangerously close to that problematic 200 figure.
He’s gotta be ready to walk out in 30 seconds flat when he spots the heat round the corner.
This is not a joke for me. The same impulse that says I don't want to maintain a lawn or bed frame makes me count the benefit of a friend against the cost of committing time every few weeks, time I could be using for whatever I want. Some of us feel really burdened by commitments. We feel about each outlay the way a normal person only feels when they get right to their limit and have to cut back.
Do they count the spreadsheet itself? It does not have physical weight but mental one certainly.
This article, and people posting in this thread are saying that they own 100 or 200 things.

I can't believe this at all.

My utility room, which basically just has stuff like cleaning products and rags/cloths etc, has more than 200 items in it. It's all useful, we're talking things like bleach, deodorant, shampoo, handwash, etc.

My house probably has 50 or more pieces of art on the walls and then another 50 pieces of furniture. My computery odds and ends bin easily has more than 200 items in it.

Either you guys are all just-moved-out kids, single and living in a single room, or we're defining "thing" differently. Which is it?

exactly. If you just count cutlery, dishes, pans, cleaning products, chargers, cables, etc... it goes up way too fast.
No kidding. If you own 100 items, a made bed is like 10% of your belongings. That's nonsense.
Everything else is in their parents' basement.
"Either you guys are all just-moved-out kids, single and living in a single room, or we're defining "thing" differently. Which is it?"

It's just a different lifestyle, there are obvious exceptions to it - but I was there once with a house and countless things - most of them I forgot I had and such.

The idea is to do inventory and then catalog and see what you need and don't need. But no, I can say with assurance my life right now is basically two suitcases, by choice - and airbnbs/hotels. 20 lb of clothes/about 80 pieces total.

Misc electronic stuff takes a ton of space, spare usb - chargers, usb cables, etc - having spares for spares.

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To be fair, I don't think it really makes sense to count consumable items like the bleach, deodorant, shampoo, handwash, etc. examples you gave. I wouldn't expect him to count the milk in his fridge or the olive oil in his pantry, either. Point being that just the natural day-to-day use of that stuff uses it up.

But yeah, I agree with the general point.

> I don't think it really makes sense to count consumable items

On the other hand if I count something it is more likely to be consumable item, so I have track of what is missing. Why bother with other stuff? That sounds like opposite of minimalism.

I think your house must be a bit bigger than most people, based on 50 pieces of art, compared to a minimalist living in a rented 2 bedroom apartment
It sounds like the entire distinction is just renting vs owning to be honest, which makes it all a bit more boring.

My house is a fairly normal sized house, there are millions of it in the UK.

I used to travel for extended times, and I actually counted the items in my backpack. It was about 70 items (if you count a money wad as one item and each sock pair as one item). That's all I needed.

Of course, much more items are accumulating while staying stationary. Easily approaches 1000, and I'm not a hoarder type. If some item has not been used for 1 year, out to the garbage it goes.

> This article, and people posting in this thread are saying that they own 100 or 200 things.

> I can't believe this at all.

> Either you guys are all just-moved-out kids, single and living in a single room, or we're defining "thing" differently.

I feel like the assumption in this is that people who are single and living in a single room are not "people", and shouldn't be posting about how much they own? My utility room contains a washer, a dryer, one bottle of Tide, and a paper bag for dryer lint. I'm not posting "people say they have 2000 square feet in their home, I can't believe this. Either you guys live in houses, or we're defining 'feet' differently".

So in your house do you have things like -

antibacterial spray

bleach

cleaning cloths

washing up liquid

floor cleaner

dusters

etc?

They might not be yours, but someone uses these? Maybe the cleaner brings them?

I don't think that people who are flatsharing or whatever are not people. I just think that it's a super narrow slice of life. You might do it from 25-35 maybe and then get a partner and like, not do that any more.

I see what you're saying now: "Is everybody here from the single 15%?!" Meanwhile I've never not been single so being single feels like normal conditions to me and not "that slice of life I barely remember after college".

I have bleach sometimes during flu season and I have hand soap. Probably my cleaning habits are in the bottom 15% too.

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Things I have bought well and once:

Vitamix 5300 - going strong after 13 years of near daily usage, 4 family blenders from department stores failed/poor quality blending before this

Zojirushi Rice Cooker - also close to 13 years, usage of a few times a week

Breville Burr Grinder - decade or a bit older, frequently used

Sonicare Toothbrush - $150ish or so model, probably 8 years of near twice daily usage. Presume I’ll have to change the battery sooner or later, but fine aside from that.

Being from poverty, I don’t think anybody in my family prior to me had ever spent nearly this much money on singular appliances. Having made the money spent on them on my own in my early teens, I consider it money very well spent - they’ve been with me in the Midwest, to the East Coast, and the West Coast (and through more than a few TSA baggage scans with people maybe wondering why is a young male flying with this kitchen equipment)

Sadly, my Diamond Sonicare toothbrush failed after just over 2 years. I spent several weeks back and forth with Philips. Initially they offered me 10% off buying a new one, which I was not happy with having spent so much on a top of the line model. I asked about the possibility of repair, they forwarded me the details of several local certified Philips repairers who, when I rang, all said they only really repair TVs or large consumer electronics devices and have no idea where to even start with repairing an electric toothbrush.

I contacted Philips again and explained that nobody is able to repair it, they again offered me 10% off a new one (which I'd have to buy through the official web store, which is already more expensive than a retail store) which I declined, they sent me details of a repair shop in a completely different state. I rang that repair shop and explained in detail the entire story, they were empathetic but also said they have no idea how they'd repair a toothbrush or even why Philips would suggest I send it there.

I'd say you got lucky with your Sonicare, and based on the runaround they gave me, poor customer service and poor serviceability, I would not recommend anyone buy an expensive Sonicare unless they're made of money and don't care about the possibility of having to replace it within a few years.

I was disappointed to learn Vitamix and Instant Pot aren’t dual voltage compatible. Can’t use them in Europe.

So basically only low wattage stuff is 120 and 220 volts.

Mi Zojirushi/Micom rice cooker is good, but the battery is essentially not user-replacable. I just set the clock any time I'm going to use the timer; it's a real letdown in something that otherwise has lasted me over a decade.
If you own a screwdriver and a soldering iron, some solder braid and some solder, the battery becomes replaceable!

This is my objection to minimalism (not that you're advocating, but ObOnTopic): Tools and materials are capability, which seems senseless to minimize!

I own all of these things, but after watching repair guides for my specific model, I decided that it was a better choice to have a definitely working rice cooker that needs the clock set when I want to use the timer (I only use the timer maybe once a month). I agree about the repair thing in general though; I own trackballs; the buttons are almost always the first thing to wear out and they are very replaceable with an iron.
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I’ve noticed some minimalists go to the extremes of limiting items based on numbers. In a way it’s a bit of a luxury.

Many people keep items or leftover stuff (one time use tools or extra glue, etc) because it saves money and time from having to drive to the store or order it online again incase they need it again. Those just incase items build up but they can end up being handy.

As someone that’s moved every year for like 6 yrs in a row, I sell about 95% stuff I don’t use but I still have a lot of things just in case that take up little space in junk drawer, etc. I think focusing on what you like and enjoy is better. Putting a hard round number on items is too much of a mental waste of time

The few hard core minimalists I’ve met are single, get paid well enough to buy whatever they wish… and their parents are all holding their old stuff at home.

All extra luxuries that enable them to live minimalist type lifestyles, but it’s not quite the whole story.

I think its a bit different. When you can buy whatever you want, you realize stuff doesn’t really improve your life.
However, not having to drive to Home Depot every single time you need a screwdriver does. As does having more than one bowl.
That's the spirit. Everything is a single use item if you are rich enough.
You also can discard things easier… knowing they can be had at will later.
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I have trouble keeping up with the minimalist type lifestyles. I don’t necessarily buy into many of their numbers (in this article we count things… except when we don’t), and I have trouble with the “buy it for life” type groups too.

The latter groups surface goals I like but I find a lot of times they’re just interested in paying more for what are effectively pseudo luxury brands or strange ideas that because it is made of metal it will last longer…. but little in the way of anyone actually using the items much.

It’s frustrating as I like the gist of the ideas but the folks practicing that I find on the internet seem off / miss the target IMO.

Buying plastic and MDF everything because the minimalists are in the pocket of Big Steel.
My gramps will once a while gather a bunch of stuff in the house and throw it out. He always has great fun doing it he loves it lol.
Thought the saying was buy it nice or buy it twice
"Buy once cry once"
I've also heard "I'm too poor to be cheap."
Honestly it's a fair point. For me it's I don't have enough time to be cheap.
This is the one I always use. Especially popular in the overlanding world which is fitting because everything is so overpriced.
I'd rather risk it once and splurge the second time if that item felt important. I have plenty of cheap tools that last.
Amen. Not exactly a minimalist thing this, but more about sourcing quality to "buy once": Rotel multi channel sound system (amp and pre amp) from 1997 here, still going strong with one repair five-ten years in, along with Infinity Kappa speakers from the same time - their surrounds replaced once, a decade ago.

Amazing sound, I love how it feels.

Where it loses most is connectivity. Amps use DB25 cables both between each other and for input, so the audio cable I've got hooked up to the HTPC's Xonar Deluxe with RCAs out is a very special one indeed - I'm amazed I found it at all, all those years ago (DB25-RCA). All audio has to go through the HTPC, for that reason, so the Samsung 65" QLED from 6-7 years ago is just a dumb display (not a bad thing!).

For longevity I rarely if ever power the equipment down; it's gotten a bit finicky to start the preamp after a power outage, but for now it's still coming back.

I'll attempt to have it repaired prior to getting a replacement if it ever fails.

Oh and the Win10 HTPC is a decade old at the core too, but I've updated it with a modern case, cooling and storage - works fantastic with a wireless Logitech keyboard.

Speakerbits in Melbourne who did my surrounds (they had all disintegrated) has ceased to exist now, but they did a stellar job - guy said the speakers had appreciated since my purchase, as decent mid range speakers just didn't exist anymore, it was either low end (rubbish) or the extreme high end.

I respect using that stuff for a while (my amp is about 12 years old but I'm upgrading this year).

Stick with what you have if it sounds good to you, but I do feel the need to point out two things: There have been significant improvements in room correction DSP algorithms particularly in the last decade. You don't need to ditch your amp to add these, there are DSP boxes you can put in the preamp stage. These will improve sound quality considerably. Audyssey, Dirac, and Anthem ARC are common names; there are others.

And there are a huge abundance of speakers in the mid range $200-$600 that are absolutely fantastic; it's a pretty wide market segment. There's plenty of old options too, but... it's not hard to find a new set of speakers capable of great sound at a decent price these days. I don't know what exactly Speakerbits was implying, but it's not true now.

Thanks for those tips, great to know! I hadn't thought of maybe upgrading the pre-amp only (one with a room processor built in, for simplicity?), that's actually something that would make sense especially for connectivity also.

I haven't really been following hi-fi products over the last couple of decades, due to wanting to "settle", but it wouldn't surprise me if things have improved since January 2010 (checked the date they were repaired) - or maybe the technician just had a particular affinity for the Kappa 6.2is (4x same plus their centre speaker).

I enjoyed this article about the minimalist man getting two minimally useful extra wallets.
Mostly single-stitched and with unfinished edges to boot
Therein is the kernel of every hoarder pathology, which is ironic.

“This is too <whatever> to get rid of!”

Wrong. Throw it away and don’t replace it.

or if throwing it away makes you feel bad, give it away.

either it finds its way to somebody who will value it, or somebody will throw it out for you. either way is a win.

Giving it away has now haunted me. Father passed away two years ago and a bunch of computing equipment he bought for me had been donated years before he had passed when it was worth very little. Now in this post covid era all of those things are 'vintage' and super expensive. I have tracked down some of the original equipment through the people I originally gave it to but it has not really been possible to get those things back. Yes I was a mild hoarder aspiring minimalist before but now I have become a full on hoarder. I desperately do extreme organizing in places like my basement to be able to contain so much of the stuff I have. I don't really know how to reconcile this fear of losing something for good.

A fellow hacker at VCF once mentioned to me that this obsession that many geeks have should graduate into letting go of items because down the road you can always buy another one if it scratches your itch again. He made a good point.

I'm going through my own journey with this at the moment, the thing I keep telling myself is that "this item will have a better life somewhere else" and "my house isn't a landfill". It's tough though.

Plus selling stuff is a full-time job really and it's annoying AF if it's not your day job. So I guess the question is - are you going to ever sell it? If not, then it doesn't really matter if it's expensive, it's just taking up space.

I've gotten rid of a lot of stuff I've accumulated over the years--including most computer-related hardware and software I don't use. One thing I find hard is that you know you have stuff that someone would be delighted to get for cheap/free. But it really isn't worth my time to try to make that connection. And a lot of it is niche enough that I doubt I'd find takers at a yard sale out in the country.
Keeping things isn't free, especially at scale. And it's not just about the space, as you've noticed organising and keeping track both of what you have and where to find it is a lot of hassle. Only for 95% of things decreasing in value over time, with no reliable way to identify the 5% worth keeping.

Your income/purchasing power definitely plays a role here too. Hoarding is more worth it if you don't have an efficient way to covert time into money.

Giving things away definitely is a win. Good Will seems to be a quick solution for this - is it a good place to give things away? Hope the things find a second life.
I disagree. It’s another pathological behavior. In many of these cases you are taking your problem, something you have no use for, and turning it into someone else's problem. My wife and sister in law are terrible about this. Rather than just getting rid of things they go to a relative to sit around for years or decades, out of sight, before finally making their way to the trash. I absolutely hate it when the sister in law shows up with a new box of “priceless treasures” for us to deal with.
I used to be interested in minimalism, but I realised that they just obsess over objects in a different way.

I wanted to save money, avoid maintenance and reduce my mental load. I found people who keep spreadsheets of their stuff and debate whether it's okay to own tools or multiple coffee cups.

Thank you for this, it put into words my uneasiness with this practice. Our household definitely has too much stuff and we always seem to be at battle with it but minimalism just feels like a mirror image problem.
> Replacing broken or worn items often feels like a nightmare of upheaval and system change

It seems like if this is where someone's application of minimalism lands them, they have missed the point.

On that note I went from owning one pair of shoes last year to three. It was a great non-minimalist decision. My shoes now take three times longer to wear out, and now I'm always wearing shoes that are more useful or more fashionable for the situation (or both) than what I used to wear.

Whenever I try to do this, I inevitably settle on wearing one of the three 100% of the time. How do you manage it?
Buy identical shoes in different colours.
I go by function. A pair of everyday shoes for regular days, a pair of cross-trainers for gym days, and an expensive pair of boots for days when I get dressed up.
Im finding out that the way I was brought up is not universal. I was always taught that you have to alternate shoes every day to make them last longer, because feet sweat too. That's why expensive dress shoes have shoe trees (not just to hold the shape better).

So two pairs of shoes for the office so they always have a full day to dry out etc. Now with WFH that sort of goes out the window as I don't wear shoes for as long any more.

That sound pathological, why would you do that to yourself
> I used to be interested in minimalism, but I realised that they just obsess over objects in a different way.

This is really interesting, particularly since you use the word “obsess”. I meet all of the criteria for OCPD (obsessive compulsive personality disorder — NOT the same thing as OCD), except for “unwilling to throw out broken or worthless objects, even if they have no sentimental value”. In fact, I’m quite the opposite because I try to be as minimalist as I can and am constantly throwing away or donating objects that I don’t need or that don’t meet my quality standards.

I always thought it was strange that I don’t match this one specific symptom of OCPD, but then I started thinking some more, and I realized that I do obsess over objects in a way but not by hoarding them. If I want to order nail clippers for example, I have to spend hours online researching the best pair of nail clippers. I am currently wiring my house for networking, and everything has to be of the highest quality using data center components. Even rented a Fluke network tester. Closet needs repairs? Now I’m learning about drywall and level 5 skim coats. It’s a nightmare because I can’t do anything in a way that I consider half-assing it — I feel compelled to either do nothing at all or go into an extreme level of detail with it.

This constantly causes relationship and work problems, but to a lesser degree than I suppose hoarding stuff would.

In case you haven't already, please consult a professional. Do yourself the favor, you're worth it.

Edit: @asddubs: thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, though you never know what reality faces the person on the other end of a link, which is why I still try. Sometimes you might be surprised. And thank you for helping get my karma back to an even number, all is well again. Your friendly friend, MD.

seems like a useless piece of advice to give to someone with that level of awareness about it.
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This will probably rub you even wronger, but your defensive response here makes me think the advice was more useful than you think.
Except I'm not the same person the advice was given to
Ah I see. Now I'm just really confused about why you commented. Oh well.
I already gave my reasoning, maybe you could just accept it at face value?
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I didn't downvote you if that's what you mean. Sorry if my post seemed rude, but I think the other side of the coin is that it can be a little grating to talk about yourself without requesting help or indicating that you're not already getting it and be offered extremely obvious advice, so I think your post just rubbed me wrong a little.
Hm, I find aspects of myself in this description that seem like they should be troubling.

Nail Clipper: Green Bell G-1008

The frustration of needing to build expertise in things you want to not do shabbily is particularly familiar. Especially with home repair tasks that contractors end up doing but not doing well ... I've learned far more about roofing, flashing techniques, the guidelines for handling, installing, and storing prefinished siding that were nowhere near followed by contractors ... than I would have expected or even truly wanted. It really emphasizes the "ignorance is bliss" mindset which is a hard pill for me to swallow.

Please talk to a doctor. Looking at the Merck manual, the criteria are 4 or more symptoms. If you have 7 of 8 symptoms, then you may have OCPD.
It sounds kind of woo, but I tried the Konmari method and it really was helpful without being overly prescriptive. It definitely felt good to get rid of a lot of that stuff. Though there are a couple that I'd probably take back if I could do it over.
It's a great technique, but I'd rather focus on reducing purchases instead of getting rid of purchased stuff. The environmental damage is already done, unless it finds a second user.

I like that Konmari can also apply to obligations and how you allocate your time. Thats the premise of a book: the life-changing magic of not giving a f**.

Part of the promise of the book is that going through the process once will change how you shop as you develop your sense for which things you really want to have around.
I think Dieter Rams captured it best with the phrase, "less but better". It's more or less the ethos I try to (and seldom do) achieve.
It was suppose to be like Simple, but not Simpler. But modern minimalism went to an extreme.
> reduce my mental load

That's has become my goal for new purchases. For some items that means getting higher quality that will last longer, for others it's get the cheapest that will work and replace it if it breaks. It does lead to weird purchases like higher quality charger cables, but cheaper a cheap TV.

well, i think it is mostly a form of self-therapy where you project a mental stressor onto something you can touch, see and deal with. then you try to manipulate that stressor and heal your trauma by manipulating that object or set of objects - or maybe an animal, a spouse or your child. of course that won't work.
As soon as I read they store every item they own in a database, that seemed like unhealthy obsessive-compulsive behavior to me. Using technology to shame yourself does not seem like a path toward happiness. I wasn’t sure why I want to take advice from someone that has that level of anxiety around owning things.
One also has to admire Whitstable man's marketing genius if he's able to live of his $100 "wallets" (which mostly amount to two badly sewn together pieces of leather). This article feels a bit too on the nose though. But he probably knows his audience.
They're really more like card holders, but I looked up that term and found they've now been rebranded as "minimalist wallets." Hey, even minimalism can be commoditized and sold. All that is solid melts into air after all.
A lot fewer people regularly use business cards and a lot more people rarely use cash or need to carry a lot of cards with them given they can store info on their phone. I carry one made by Saddleback and it's perfect for me.
I would love to be a minimalist. Unfortunately I have a wife who is the opposite of that and a woodworking hobby.
Hobbies are a great reason to accumulate stuff though. You can’t get good at stuff if you have nothing or need to hire gear all the time.
They had me with the title but the content reads like an elder-millennial whose conversational voice got inescapably stuck in memes and referral links.
I loved the faux naïveté. “I can’t believe I’m getting a ~surprise~ package in the mail from the guy who recycles leather just two weeks after I sent him a passel of recycled leather totally out of the goodness of my heart!”
I might have over 100 physical paper books. I know I have well over 100 computer parts and accessories (including cables, adapters, extra hard drives, USB drives, game controllers, webcams, old CPU fans, PCIe cards, etc)

I don’t think I’m making it to less than 500 items total. Maybe not even less than 1K.

I also don’t see anything wrong with that.

I’m in the midst of a life transition and I’ve found that it’s a good opportunity to do some culling. I’m fine with some extravagances (I have probably about 1500 books, of which I’ve cataloged 1,166 on LibraryThing (my transition has paused cataloging activity as my library is mostly living in boxes now and part of the cataloging is shelving everything by Library of Congress call number). On the flip side, I have a very well-defined wardrobe now, with 9 long sleeve shirt, 9 short sleeve shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, 10 pairs of socks and 10 pairs of underwear (I make a point of doing laundry once a week, the more than 7 of everything allows me to occasionally let laundry day slip a little). I have a complete list of all the furniture in the house, which is going to end up being reduced somewhat. I don’t know that I’ll be down to 200 items (excluding books), but I think that once I’ve finished my transition, I will be definitely much more deliberate about what I allow into my home.
A ways ago I started sliding towards DRM free digital books. They take up much less hoarding space.
I like the way a bookshelf looks on a wall. I like that friends can browse and discuss and borrow. I like looking at book titles and thinking about when I bought them or how I felt when I read them.

An e-reader is amazing for travel, but doesn't give you any of the above.

Pretty much that. My bookshelves are not merely a collection of books, but they’re also an expression of myself. Many of the books I have, I can tell you where, when and why I bought them. Even books that I’ve let go for the sake of space still carry that memory with them. Not to mention that many of the books I own are not available as ebooks and likely never will be (a lot of my collection veers towards the esoteric and specialized).
Sure, but you should be intentional about the books you want a paper copy of. "I will read this again regularly", "I want to page through this for reference often", "I want to display my love for this book" are all good reasons to own a physical copy. But if you have 1,500 books, how many fall into that category? Maybe a hundred?
I like the concept, but this reeks of native advertising.
Agreed, it just comes off as really odd. They don't want random stuff, but now they all of a sudden have two random wallets that they are grateful to have. While they "luckily" have a blog where they can thank the random stranger they sent their old leather to, who happened to take their time to handcraft them new objects out of it. It just seems too coincidental, and I don't believe that would ever happen to someone without advertising potential.
In a way I admire committed minimalists. But I often wonder what their long term lifestyle is like. Surely many of them are single (or they only count the items which are solely theirs). They surely rent at a higher rate than own property. They surely own vehicles at a lower rate. And so on. I just get this picture of a person in an urban area, living alone in a studio apartment, dependent upon everyone else for basically everything.
I’m fond of the conspiracy theory that the rise of minimalism is actually propaganda to placate Millennials who can’t afford the same level of material comfort as their parents and other earlier generations enjoyed.
Or a conscious choice to live an alternative lifestyle to their parents. Seeing an unattainable future and choosing a separate path.
Same with having children. “I don’t even want kids. They are needy, expensive, and tie you down.”

All true, but having kids was never a choice for you given your financial situation so let’s not pretend you had a say in the matter.

I agree with you but I don't think it's a financial thing but a psychological/maturity thing.

People have kids at all income levels. For every one who claims they can't afford kids - someone is raising a family on that same income.

Yes but one of the most common desires is that you want your children to have a better childhood and life than yourself. Some people don't care or don't explicitly make the choice to get children, they just get them. But some people won't get children if they can't provide an environment that is at least as good as the one their parents provided to them.
People need to learn that material possessions are way less important than emotional environment. For most of us, being better parents is about how we parent. Not what we can afford.
Childcare, education, housing (often tied together) and health care. Those are the big 4 expenses that are killing fertility rates, and only one is somewhat material.
All of them are tied to money, really. If you are rich, then you can afford nannies (or a stay at home parent, this is nowadays a luxury too), housing, and if you are in a district with high property taxes, your public school is well funded. College is also easier if you don't rely on scholarships or on your children to work so that they can support you. Health care also suddenly becomes affordable with money (although in the US for big things it's still inaccessible).

In general, if you get N children, then you either favor one child, or each child gets 1/N of the inheritance. Same goes for money available for sending your kid to college. Meaning, as a rule of thumb, the more children you get, the poorer those children will be from that point of view. Like a single can live well from €2k euro per month in most of Germany, but for a family with 3 children the same sum is very little.

And of course there is the entire dateability aspect, too. People with higher income are seen as more attractive than those with lower income.

That’s true. I meant more so for those that purposeful have children. My brother had two children that were definitely unplanned.
That's what I am referring to as well. Plenty of people at income X intentionally have children while plenty of people at 5X lament not being able to afford them. I think this is true for every X.

I suspect income has a negative correlation with the number of children in general, if anything.

It’s always a choice. People in 3rd world countries are having 5 kids in a mud hut without doctors.

It might not be a choice to have kids, and a new car while also going to the cafe every day. But having kids is always an option.

What if its just Millennials discovering it own their own as a result of their reduced standard of living? The powers that be would want maximum consumption and minimalism goes against that no?

Same probably goes for "vanlife". It is millennials just realizing they cant afford a home ever and so they improvise with what they can resource.

Consumption is not just buying things. And even in buying things, many so-called minimalists still buy a lot, maybe less in tonnage, but GDP-wise they still spend a lot of money.

Of course, there are zen style minimalists. But many seem to be in it for aesthetic.

Where have you been? TPTB are desperately trying to make you poorer by banning cars, banning air travel, banning meat, and inflating the fuck out of our money.
Oof, was really hoping for a /s at the end of this one.
Vanlife is still very costly if you try to maintain any kinds of creature comforts. I think it is more so millennials seeing the romanticized side of it on social media, and then finding out its actually a lot of work and you are one break down from being literally homeless.
My grandma grew up in the US without even indoor plumbing. She had to use an outhouse. She's still alive today.
OTOH, if you're poor, it might be best to save every item in case it becomes useful later, whereas a rich minimalist can afford to give away or sell for cheap everything not needed right now, knowing that replacements can be bought when necessary.
To me, minimalism seems like a natural reaction to the transient lifestyles that people live now. A generation or two ago, many would grow up and settle down in the same town or county with 4 years of college being the most time that one spent outside their hometown. If you have a permanent home, it's easier to invest in filling it with stuff.

Today I hesitate to buy anything that I can't pack in a suitcase or wouldn't feel comfortable throwing away or donating to Goodwill in ~2 years.

Most of the gung-ho minimalists are upper middle class or rich, they may have only a sofa and coffee table and a lamp in their $6000 a month apartment but those 3 items cost over $10,000.
Millennial here and half-baked minimalist here.

At least it’s not true for me. For all my life I’ve been drowned in objects. My parents are still telling that I had so many toys.

Minimalism is a way for becoming aware of the objects around me. Not so much about the pure number of objects.

Since, I started thinking about what should be part of my life and also letting go of things I don’t really need, my savings rate has skyrocketed. Also, many things I own have much higher quality than my parents or grandparents.

I guess minimalism is a counter-movement to super-cheap consumerism.

Precisely. We are constantly bombarded by messages to buy buy buy. Fill that hole in your life with plastic crap that will surely be the thing you were missing that finally makes you happy. And when that doesn't work, well, just buy some more!

The trick they pulled is telling us all that inconvenience is bad and needs to be eliminated, but what I've come to see is that life happens in inconveniences, and consumerism tells us we should trade our life for their junk.

You can add tiny houses and van life to the list.
The massive carbon emissions campaigning seems to be this. Since generations of young and hard working people are being so heavily exploited that they can't afford things, blast out the message that they are saving the world from being doomed by not having a vehicle, not traveling, not having land, not eating quality food, and most importantly: not having children so that they aren't interrupted in their duties of paying taxes and profits.

It is completely free to convince people they are saving the planet by living less than others.

Steve Jobs was known for living in such a way that I don't think was entirely a put on. He did own vehicles but refused to put license plates on them apparently for aesthetic reasons. Ironically, it seems like having a lot of wealth helps with the minimalist thing.
Heh, don't think that fits. I heard he figured out the related california law that you had 1-3 months before you'd get a legal penalty for not putting a new plate on the car. So he worked it out with the car dealer to swap cars every 1-3 months, so he could park whenever he wanted and never get a ticket.
To be honest it's not like the guy in a suburban home is self-reliant either; it's just easier to kid yourself. But I do agree that a picture-perfect minimalist lifestyle will face some challenge if you live with others, especially kids.
Dunno, seems like we might be past peak materialism. Do people really need 2000 ft^2 with a 2 car garage just packed with crap. So much so that they often buy things because they can't find what they own. Even renting storage units on top of a full size house is surprisingly common.

China closets, album collections, file cabinents, many book cases packed, shelves of games/cartriges/cdroms, many different kinds of sports equipment not used for a decade, dead appliances, 3 toolboxes filled with crappy tools, drawers filled with disposable pens, large closets packed with clothes not worn in a decade etc. Every trash day with overflowing garbage cans from all the disposable stuff.

Buying decent shoes, tools, a decent pen, a decent razor, and decent wallet can last decades. Even more disposable things like cars, computers, stereos/electronics can last a decade or more, but often have a somewhat higher cost up front/but cheaper to own per year. In general if it's made in plastic my first conclusion is that it's not worth it. Don't eat out of plastic, drink out of it, don't use a plastic keychain, even cans these days are plastic lined. Don't even touch it if you can avoid it.

Yes this kind of attitude is possible even with wife, kids, and a dog. If it's not been used in the last year considering upcycling, donating, giving it away, or pitching it.

200 sq ft sounds great, just don't fill it with crap.
Yeah that is kind of me. I like it though
Yeah it's great. You can pack up and leave whenever. Why get tied down?
My relationship to stuff is at a weird point. I've watched a bit too many documentaries about impact of overproduction on our world to a level where I tend to over analyze and over scrutinize every purchase, probably to unhealthy levels. I tend to use objects i have to the point they become unusable, trying to get their full worth.

But at the same time, I've realized that buying the best of everything every time is not the best way to go. Sometimes your taste changes but the object still is in a great condition with no other takers. So you're stuck with something you don't like anymore.

A good compromise seems to be buying the cheap version of everything the first time around. That way if you don't use it as much, you haven't spent a lot of money on it. And if you do it use it, the cheap stuff will wear out sooner and you can replace it with better made stuff.

Buy used. You pay less and nothing gets produced.

I have the same obsession as you and this is how I reconcile with it. If I'm not ready to meet someone across town I probably don't need it.

Buying used has become a huge pain. The platforms are absolutely full of scammers and time wasters, the items are either overpriced or immediately purchased by flippers, and they often aren’t very accessible without owning a car.

I prefer to just buy new, where I can have stuff delivered, and then use it until it’s completely worn out or obsolete.

Depnends on the item I suppose - half of my small board game collection (100+ titles) is used games bought from local eBay equivalent. And almost all of them were in perfect condition but half the price.
Same! I paid 5-10€ each and slowly acquired most of the Spiel des Jahres winners.

You can often find near-new Apple products and great tools at a steep discount too.

In Germany (eBay) Kleinanzeigen works rather well. People are still people, but at least the platform is good.
I vacillate on this a lot. On one hand, yes, it's nice to have well-designed items that last decades or a lifetime. And obviously we're awash in disposable goods at great environmental cost. On the other, who hasn't been burned by buying a garment "for life" that no longer fits, no longer appeals to us, or otherwise gets rendered unusable? Or buying a beautiful, premium tool that only sees one or two uses? Or having an item that by all rights should have been disposable last for years of regular use?
For the tool conundrum, I’ve found that the best course of action is to buy the cheapest option (within reason) to start with. If you don’t use it, no sweat, it was cheap. On the other hand, if you use it soo much that it breaks it you outgrow it then you get to buy the best version of that tool. At that point you know what you like and don’t like, as well as what’s worth paying extra for, so you end up with the perfect tool for you.
Yes, this is a commonly recommended strategy. But you do run the risk of being stuck with an unsatisfying but functional tool you feel guilty getting rid of, and even in the best case, who feels good about having bought a lousy tool that breaks?

I tend to go with a bit of a sliding scale based on factors like "how often do I expect to use it?" and "how afraid am I of it injuring me?"

On the other hand, you risk considering a whole tool class as not very useful, when actually it is just that the one you own is crap...
A better idea might just be to ask a neighbor to borrow their tool. Or subscribe to a tool library which may be near you.
This is a decent strategy and well-trotted in every buy-once thread but I'll offer my advice as someone who has been on this tool purchasing train for a few decades now. If you know the precision you require you can buy the tool you actually need. As an example if you are doing some leveling work over a 20ft by 20ft area you can figure out how well it can be done with an 8ft water level including disaster scenarios where you fuck it up and then you can consider a self-leveling laser and weight up your choices properly. Following the advice to get the cheapest tool will likely lead you into disaster scenarios because you end up with the entirely wrong class of tool.
Unrelated, but anyone know a good desktop program for home inventory? No webapp, no mobile app.
My grandma always says: “We are too poor to buy twice”.
personally I "buy mid-range, and replace when it breaks". Not obsessing over your possessions is freeing.
Maxi checking in. I have racks of labelled drawers full of bearings, screws, glues, specialty tapes, oodles of hand tools, power tools, ad infinitum. I'm honestly not super competent or anything (I barely know what I'm doing, in any domain) but I do learn new things all the time and it brings me joy.

I miss the clarity of minimalism, but I can also have a different view on wallets - they're just leather and some stitching and such, and I can change them to be what I need.

Of course it's a very particular type of programmer disease to fixate on having equipment that can compile any possible wallet to solve the problem of having a wallet.

I get a kick out of dumb stuff like fixing the dishwasher latch by bending a new spring rather than getting the $70 replacement part (... probably spending $100 of my labour, good thing my free time is worthless!).

I spend a lot on storage systems and need a lot of discipline around stuff like deciding a place for things before acquiring them. It's a tradeoff I'm OK with.

I was using a broccoli rubber band as a wallet for years but they have a tendency to break after a while. Have settled on a metal binder clip and it’s worked much better - less friction in/out of pocket too
This is my favourite kind of minimalism.
I use a broccoli rubber band as a minimalist iPhone 'case'. [1] It makes the back and bottom of the phone grippy, so it's easier to hold. It does slightly block the corners of the screen, but not much. It doesn't provide much protection in case of a drop, obviously. But the added grippiness makes drops much less likely!

I have occasionally bought broccoli that I didn't need just so I could get another rubber band, after my previous one broke. They typically last 2 months or so.

1: https://imgur.com/a/E2yO6XX

> It doesn't provide much protection in case of a drop, obviously. But the added grippiness makes drops much less likely!

I found popsockets and ring holders a better option in that regard https://image.gsmpunt.nl/blog/image/image_3.png

> popsockets

Oh so this is what those weird phone attachments are called. Thanks!

Be advised that they seemed to have changed their design and tape material. They advertise the lower quality tape as "re-adjustable".
How do those interact with the MagSafe charging are on the back of the iPhone?
No idea, I haven't had an iPhone in ages. They have magsafe versions though https://www.popsockets.com/en-us/more/magsafe so I suppose it's compatible ?
Ah, thanks for the link. I think this means they can occupy the MagSafe slot, but if you want to charge via MagSafe then you have to remove them and reattach after.
I don't care that as a man in my 50s that I look like a teenage girl with my phone, but I immediately put a Popsocket on any phone that I own. They are wonderful.
I don't think I have seen rubber bands that thick in ages. It surprises me they don't use the tiny ones?
Even asparagus will often come in thick rubber bands. Leeks too.
I relate to this so much.

I love bring the extra screw up from the basement I saved 4 years ago knowing this moment would one day come where I need it. Now is it on the bottom of the red or the blue folgers coffee can.

That said - tools and home improvement objects are allowed in the maximum as long as they fit in the basement workshop, that’s my only rule.

My box of wires in the attic is often the butt of my wife’s jokes, but every once in a while I find that satellite coax connector I’ve been saving, or the scart cable that is the only thing standing between old vhs tapes and nostalgia.
"rather than getting the $70 replacement part"

Appliance repair usually starts at a $100 house-call fee and goes up from there. It is cheaper to buy a new dishwasher than get it repaired.

The person is talking about buying the part and installing it themselves, not paying someone to come repair it for them.
When I moved into my apartment, the racks in the dishwasher were badly rusted. I told the management.

They replaced the entire dishwasher. They said they couldn't get a replacement rack.

> They replaced the entire dishwasher. They said they couldn't get a replacement rack.

What are the margins on replacement racks?

Someone would have to pay for warehousing, stock tracking, employees for packing/shipping, then add shipping costs. Why would anyone offer them?

This problem is multiplied by the fact that most consumer goods have subtle differences in design between brands and even model lines within the brand. If there were only 2 or 3 different, standardized dishwasher racks for all models, stocking those few would be cost effective.

As someone that owns a number of small-engine powered devices, I'm always amazed at how easy/cheap it is to find parts. Most small engines are either one of a couple Briggs and Stratton models, or a knockoff of same. Even across models, B&S usually did a pretty good job of reusing common parts. When you need a part, you can cross reference various part numbers to find either the OEM part or dozens of cheap Chinese copies.

Small engine devices also often utilize belts so you can replace the whole engine with various different ones and only have to line up and size the proper belt.
We bought a house recently and the racks in the (old) dishwasher are rusted. I thought it would be cheap to replace them. $400 for new top and bottom racks. $425 for a new dishwasher. I am gobsmacked.
You often can get the part, but it’s expensive and with shipping and hassle you might as well but a new dishwasher.

Especially as a landlord, spend $200-400 to replace the racks or buy a new for $500 and pretty much guarantee no calls on that item for five years.

Unless you repair it yourself. I’ve done things like replacing the bearings and a cracked spider arm in our clothes washer. Not only was it cheap to do so, I also learned a lot about how a washer is put together by dismantling one down almost all the way. Same with replacing the heating element in the dryer.
Living in a country that is a smaller market really sucks on this front because I either cannot get the parts, or they cost more to ship here than the cost of the part itself. Last time I got something for my coffee machine that the manufacturer refused to sell it cost $80 to ship it here from a parts warehouse.