Ask HN: What do you put in a “in case of death” file?

234 points by cjohnson318 ↗ HN
I recall seeing a guide on what to put in a text file so that surviving family have an easier time dealing with all of your loose ends, e.g., digital accounts, safe deposit boxes, utilities, etc. Do any of you have thoughts on what to put in a file like this? Here is a rough list of things:

  - Will
  - Living trust
  - Power of attorney
  - Life insurance policy
  - Birth certificate
  - Marriage license
  - Bank and credit card accounts
  - Loan documents
  - Automobile titles
  - Property deeds
  - Copies of keys to automobiles, safe deposit boxes, etc.
  - Account and device passwords

145 comments

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I don't know. But your post just made me feel a bit uneasy - in a good way. thanks.
Hey, no worries. It's good to sit down and review something like this once a year. Especially if you've got kiddos.
I went over some of this with my wife earlier this year. She was a bit concerned about why I was bringing it up, but it was only because I'd already dragged half of this stuff out to review while preparing our tax return. :-)
Good list. I would add:

- All contracts and how to reach the counterparty (esp. insurance, subscriptions, phone, water, power)

- Instructions on things that you take care of regularly so your partner isn’t aware of the details

Probably covered by passwords but..

- 2 factor seed phrases. Combined with a password manager and a list of services you use could be quite convenient

- Maybe also the answers to silly questions like ‘first pets name’

- list of professionals you use, like accountant, financial advisor, lawyer, psychologist

- list of people you’ve lost touch with but hold in high regard, so they don’t have to think too much about who to contact in case they want to come up the funeral

- Investment accounts and stock plan accounts

- 401(k)s, IRAs, etc.

- 529s

- SSNs

I don't think I would create a file like this. It is a lot of sensitive information that I wouldn't want on my computer, and, how would I be sure it was found if when needed?

I would take all of the the things you listed (and what others have listed) and put them in a safe or fire-resistant box then give a sealed envelope to whoever is going to be the executor of your estate with information about how to find and access the box.

This.

Key thing: do not put in a safe deposit box at a bank. Those are sealed once the bank determines that you’re dead.

Safest thing to do is tattoo it on the inside of your cheek
Only if you kill the tattoo artist after.
Sounds a lot easier than properly securing my home network
I heard that tattoos inside your mouth don't last super long, not sure if it's true though.
Only if you trust your dentist (or your proctologist, depending on which cheek you were referring to).
Don't trust either of them with the whole thing; have them meet in the middle.
May vary by country, but we added both of our adult children on our safe deposit box. They should have full access regardless.
In the US it’s by state. In New York, opening the box requires a court order no matter what. Getting access to the contents of the box after opening may also require an order from the surrogate court. There’s also a statutory procedure for appointment of an executor that can be complicated by many factors. All of this crap takes time and wastes a lot of money.

Don’t do it. Pay for an attorney to hold it on your behalf if you want a third party to hold on to it.

On top of this, safe deposit boxes are not very safe in general. Banks frequently fubar operations around them and lose, destroy, give access to the wrong people, etc.

I print this all out. I don't trust a file on a computer that can be hacked.

I also have qr codes with my ssh keys.

Better yet, don't even write it in a computer, make it hand-written.
You want to make it easier for people, not harder.
All of this stuff is important to have available for your loved ones, but I wouldn't recommend storing it all digitally in one place. It's just a recipe for a really, really hard to unscrew identity theft. Instead, keep a copy of each of those things in your safe deposit box at the bank, and the stuff most important immediately following your demise in a firesafe.
No, do not use a safe deposit box for this. It will be inaccessible as soon as you're dead.

Also, don't put your will among these things; your will will be required beforehand, so you'll want to file it directly with your attorney, family, or a close friend.

Après moi, le déluge.
Before me, the rain?

What does this mean? Sorry, I don't speak French..

My mom says "na mij de zondvloed", and Dutch has a tendency to loan from French (invasions and all that), and "après" is after iirc and "deluge" means a lot of rain in English right? So I guess it means what my mom says: "after me, the huge flood", or whatever that biblical story's rain/flood was called, the one where Noah got a ship with every type of animal to eat^W, ahem, rescue

More loosely translated: I don't care what comes after me

I'm sure GP's next of kin will be very pleased with them... but yeah it's the mode most people operate in. Short term gains, long term scorched earth

(My mom doesn't mean that seriously, more of a saying she uses in specific cases like about what happens to the house. Basically saying she doesn't care about a particular physical property or so.)

"after me, the flood" it's a quote from King Louis the 15th apparently.
Power of attorney- no real help, you are dead. Depending on your country.... When you die your estate "owns" everything and only your estate can operate it.

But any property in joint names AUTOMATICALLY becomes the property of the joint owner and IS NOT subject to any restrictions

What????

In most jurisdictions, the law says the executor of your will can operate on the will, its contents etc, but there are strict legal requirements and it is NOT automatic. A court usually has to OK it.

In Australia it is a probate court. It takes several weeks to make sure the will in question is the real and most recent.

As a general case, the courts allow the estate to pay for things like funerals etc.

If there is no will then someone has to apply to the courts for administration.

Your "next of kin" is a Hollywood dramatization and in Australia has absolutely no actual power to do anything.

Usually the "next of kin" will actually do the organizing to inform the executor (if the executor doesn't know)

So the important things to put in your "In case of Death file" Location of will Name of Executor Burial insurance details (if you have any)

Location of a secondary file for the executor with email account and website account passwords, Bank Account details, Insurance policy details Location of a secondary file for the executor with email account and website account passwords, in short everything the executor needs.

I also have a document containing the "order of my life"

This is how I have organized my life. Whose name the cars/boat/golf buggy is in, what insurance companies, Utility companies for power water and services, clubs I am members of, things like roadside assistance etc. How I buy and sell my equities and shares, who I am paying hush money to and who is blackmailing me from porn hub. Basically all the minor things I do in everyday life.

If you are uncomfortable with this topic, if nothing else investigate an "Enduring Power of Attorney" (it may be called something else in your jurisdiction).

This expires with your death but it allows the holder to make medical and other decisions should you become unable to make decisions for yourself (dementia, coma, stroke accidents that leave you in a vegetative stake) (In Australia a spouse has that right automatically but if your spouse is unable to make that decision (died in the same accident, has dementia etc) then you NEED an Enduring Power of Attorney). Your children do not have the right and your executor in the future can take legal action against them)

This is way more important than a "in case of death file"

I know the post above was long, but I must mention the contents come from personal experience.

One thing I found, sadly, was that people I love and trust including family often become greedy and grasping when there is inheritance at stake. Bear that in mind when you make a list with access details to things like bank accounts.

You may not believe it but that is what will happen to your family.

I like to think it is a reaction to grief, rather than an innate selfishness.

Sadly the greedy ones after death are often the government taking their part. If you are reading these comments, add tax planning to the list
I have screenshots of the pages where I've designated beneficiaries of my tradfi accounts with non-trivial money, just in case.

My parents and brother have an envelope containing instructions on:Bwhere my private "pass" repo is hosted, my yubikey pin, the name of the entry containing my bip39 key, and a list of coins to activate in ledger that contain balances.

Luckily my ex-teacher, non-techy brother is more into crypto than me and will know what to do.

You probably don’t need a list of passwords for most of these. It certainly helps to have a list of institutions you have accounts with, but you don’t necessarily even have to list actual account numbers.

The simple truth is that people die everyday and dealing with this stuff is normal for most any institution of note.

All you really need is a Will and an executor or administrator. A death certificate and set of Letters of Administration will open many doors typically locked.

Combine with a name, DOB, and SSN, there are departments that deal with all this.

Will Apple and Google open up with these documents? I can’t say with any specificity. But I imagine so. But even so, this is why you want a list institutions. In the old days, wait a month or a quarter and you’d likely as not get paper statements or bills from open accounts. With a lot of paperless things today, without access to email, it makes discovery more difficult.

So, a list of accounts and your email password in an envelope may be all you need. The estate process will likely deal with everything else.

> Will Apple and Google open up with these documents? I can’t say with any specificity. But I imagine so.

Not sure about Google/Apple, but I think Microsoft will not provide access to accounts of deceased owners unless required by law (Germany and China, apparently?):

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/accessing-outlook...

Better to share resources prior to death for those accounts, I guess?

Google and Apple support legacy contacts to facilitate transferring ownership of digital accounts. Life is easier for those you leave behind if you set that up now.

https://support.google.com/accounts/troubleshooter/6357590?h...

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212360

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Wouldn't just adding each other partner or a few trusted relatives as recovery email work as well?
The benefit of a legacy contact is more veracity when you present a death certificate. Not the same when you’re simply using recovery emails imho. It’s the digital equivalent of a beneficiary designation.
Sure, but instead of my spouse having to send a birth certificate to someone like google, and open a ticket and the whole thing, she can just dump my password in there and see if there's anything she wants.

It's easy to go through that process once, but I think you're underestimating the amount of busy work in a stressful time.

Does my wife need to deal with the fucking utility company to make sure water and garbage aren't stopped for none payment or would she rather just look in the password safe and pay the bill and move on to something worth thinking about?

> The simple truth is that people die everyday and dealing with this stuff is normal for most any institution of note.

Correct. The problem is, the tech SaaS companies like Google, which increasingly become critical to people's day-to-day life, are not "institutions of note", and in fact they do their damned best to avoid and weasel out of "dealing with this stuff", or account recovery support in general (or any support "that doesn't scale").

Maybe in a decade or two, when enough bereaved families (and people just breaking their phones at a bad moment) will end up cut off from important assets because of a broken/nonexistent account recovery process, that the public pressure will mount and tech companies will be forced by law to actually provide support.

I'd add draft obit or death notice and funeral/memorial/celebration of life wishes. Maybe a note of the number of death certificates to get.

My dad had three-ring binders for each member of the family with the info you listed plus some which others did, including obit info. He also created a list of things to do in order. The list and binder were both very helpful. I imagine if I hadn't been over it with him multiple times over the years that it would have been a lifesaver.

A printed copy of every single script from Frasier with a small handful of phrases changed.

An empty thumb drive.

Options agreements and, if a private equity shareholder, contact information for a trusted attorney or fiduciary you’ve previously contracted with who can execute a transaction with as favorable terms possible for unsophisticated next of kin.
Being survived by my spouse is one of my greatest fears. I have an "in case of death" file and my spouse knows where to get it. I don't find your list helpful in my case though. Mine is a lot simpler:

1. A list of all our financial accounts (checking, savings, retirement, etc) and bills. My spouse already has access to all these, but I handle all the day-to-day finances so it would be easy to forget a particular account or bill exists.

2. Phone numbers, URLs, and policy numbers for my life insurance policies.

3. Information about our internet and our off-site backups. Along with complicated networking equipment, I am self-hosting some software like DNS that could cause the home wifi to stop working if it's not maintained properly. I have instructions on how to unplug it all and set up an off-the-shelf router.

4. Instructions on how to get "In Case of Emergency" access to my password manager. I don't think this is necessary but might make a few things easier.

5. Personal advice on getting help and not withdrawing from family during the grieving process

Outside of this, I also have Google Inactivity Manager set up to automatically notify close friends if both me and my spouse pass away. While I'm guessing the police would notify our family somehow, my parents don't have contact information on my closest friends.

> Google Inactivity Manager

Interesting, did not know about this. I think there’s no good solution yet on how to be notified if an acquaintance (not close friend or family member) dies. It used to be death notices in the local newspaper, but that’s out because my acquaintances live in so many different places. Does anyone have experience with Google Inactivity Manager?

Google Inactivity Manager is supposed to be used to grant access to your account after you die. In my case my account is not important, I only use it for Youtube these days, but you can write a custom message so that's primarily my use case for it.

After you set it up, you get an email every few months reminding you that you have it set up. I have it set up to fire a few months after my account has no activity (YouTube logins etc).

However your question made me think. My email provider is forwarding emails delivered to my Gmail via IMAP and I'm not sure if this is considered "account activity." If it is, Google Inactivity Manager may take a very long time to kick in since this forwarding is likely to continue long after I die. I can't find any documentation about this online.

I've heard a few people talk about Dead Man's Switch[1] for this purpose but I've never used it. Theoretically it might be possible to self host a solution with a cloud provider. Using a free service like Lambda your account should survive you even if your credit card is closed.

1: https://www.deadmansswitch.net/

Huh. Is Google Inactivity Manager something one could use to safeguard against the failure modes of their push to 2-factor auth? As in, set it on shortest possible check-up period, so in case you break your phone and forgot where you put the backup single-use 2FA keys, all you need to do is log out from Google account on any other device, and wait a month or three, and you'll eventually get your account back?
In theory, yes. That's exactly how it would work - after whatever time you've set a nominated person gets an email allowing them to change your password and all authentication methods so yes, you could potentially get it back this way. Haven't even thought about it tbh and I have it set up.
A bit risky if you don't use it frequently, you could cause others in your family distress should you for some reason not log on for the period of time set. Perhaps a good idea to inform those people that you are doing this at the very least.
I think there’s no good solution yet on how to be notified if an acquaintance (not close friend or family member) dies.

Probably not a popular answer on HN these days, but Facebook is pretty good for this.

I might be one of the few with full experience (assuming the rest who have used it start-to-finish are dead).

I accidentally let mine trigger a couple years ago. It was on a Gmail address that my family knows is me, but I don't sign in very often, and I must have let it lapse.

Six family members each received slightly personalized "if you're reading this..." emails that I'd composed, and a couple of them were granted access to the account. I realized quickly what had happened, because I set my main email address as one of the recipients, and I reset it within about an hour.

Fortunately, I don't have any skeletons in my closet that I plan to disclose on my deathbed, so these emails were a lot closer to boring checklists than poems or confessions.

Everyone got the mail, but nobody panicked (or actually even acknowledged it), and as far as I know nobody used the account access.

This was an unsettling "what if I threw a funeral and nobody came?" moment. But it also showed me that many people just don't read their email that frequently.

I still think the feature is wonderful, and a great way to conveniently handle one element of digital-estate disposition. But the message does risk getting lost in the stream of crap that is most of today's inboxes, so I'd also recommend a Plan B.

Also, keep a copy of everything with a trusted lawyer who can execute your will (if you are on this forum, you can mostly likely afford one). Hardware and software can fail, don’t put all your faith in automated systems.
> if you are on this forum, you can mostly likely afford one

...what?

Okay I admit my reply wasn't that good. I'll take another shot:

I think it's ignorant to assume that everyone on hacker news lives in a developed country and makes a lot of money. The statement was completely unnecessary, and could've been much more useful if it instead said "if you can afford one".

> Being survived by my spouse is one of my greatest fears

Interesting, one of my greatest fears is my wife dying before me

Technically the same could still be the greatest fear of parent, but that wouldn't be relevant in the given context.
I don't know, I'm still in my 20s, maybe my mind will change as I get older. Today if I had to choose between my spouse grieving or the other way around I'd rather it be me.
To lighten the mood a bit, any bets on you outliving Google Inactivity Manager?
if OP survives >10y, this is assured. Thanks for lightening the mood.
Delete my browser history. Don't look at it.
Instructions for wiping Pinboard. I plan to be mourned!
I have a card for a mortuary service I've prepaid for. In theory they ship my body to the mortuary from anywhere in the world, supposedly. It's worth looking into, I think. Keep a copy of the card in your wallet and a copy of the policy in the "upon my demise" folder.
This is good only of your life is setteled. If you are young you might transfer and start a new life. If you live in Florida for the last 50 years of life, nobody will want to travel to California for your funeral.
I'm not sure I'll care people from California won't want to visit my family plot in Florida. I'll be dead.
This isn't about you, it is about those who remember you. Your funeral isn't where they are so they don't get to go. If they would visit your grave, they have to make a special trip.

At least i'm not aware of a religion that offers you reason to care. I leave figuring that to the reader.

If it isn't about me, then they can pay for my funeral.
To avoid the probate crap, add beneficiaries to your IRA/bank accounts/stock brokers accounts.

Trusts that don't own any properties are useless. Just transfer real estate and land to trusts asap. Even though it is true that trusts save one from the probate headache, lawyers want 10 percent for dissolving and/or administering trusts. One doesn't need lawyers to dissolve/administer trusts; if you are a trustee, better familiar yourself with dissolution of trusts.

+1. My brother and sister in law weren't thinking about that while she was in hospice and it was a major pita afterwards.
Shouldn’t those accounts be in your trust, not natural, name?
It is always about reducing the number of steps, and the cost associated with such processes, in order to pass down to beneficiaries both movable (chattel) and immovable (real) assets. Dissolution of a trust is tricky, unless you've been through it yourself earlier. By adding beneficiaries to one's bank accounts/IRA accounts/retirement accounts, one just need to present a certified death certificate to the relevant financial institution to get those stocks/bonds/cash.

Even for homes, one doesn't need a will, nor a trust. Just make it "community property with a right of survivorship". What if both spouses die in some accident? A fix: joint tenancy with kids. Again, this creates a host of problems: what if a kid owes a lot of money to creditors? What if a kid files for bankruptcy? So, joint tenancy with kids is NOT recommended in such scenarios.

Wait, I don't follow (also I'm not American). Can't you just write a will in which you decide how the assets are split in % terms? Or perhaps that's what creates the "trust"?
IANAL but my understanding is the contains your wishes about the distribution of your assets. However, the process of actually operating the will (ie probate) can take a while. Hence, you are better off moving your assets into a trust so that in the event of your passing, the trustee gets to distribute your assets according to your wishes immediately.
Worth checking all the tax implications for one’s situation. Trusts are typically taxed quite high in relation to humans.
It does seem complicated. User sowbug has commented above that in California the trust can actually get you out of significant taxation. I would even call it unreasonable taxation (why would you tax the assets, instead of assets - liabilities, that doesn't make any sense).
Yes, but at least some US jurisdictions require an attorney (and fee) to go through probate. California even charges the fee as a percentage of the gross value of the estate, ignoring debt. So you can die with zero net worth, but your estate still has to cough up $40,000 or so to pay an attorney because you owned a single family residence with an underwater mortgage. That's doesn't happen with a trust.
If you have zero networth (or the networth would be less than the fees), can't they just disclaim your inheritance?
Yes, but maybe it's your family's home, where your now-orphaned kids have lived all their lives, and they might not want to have to move and change schools just to pay an attorney whose services they didn't want. Their guardian might be able to figure out a way to pay the mortgage and maintain their stability, if it weren't for the irrationally calculated probate fee.
California also has processes that bypass probate depending on the net worth of the diseased. You should not be paying anyone $40K just for probate in California. There is a progressive fee schedule that would limit the costs of a $1MM estate to about $20K. If you really don’t want that property, just let the bank repossess it. You’re not required to do anything with it. If for some reason the house was not foreclosed on you would eventually be able to claim it from the state. Banks also have procedures for next of kin to take over mortgages while you sort this out, should you want to.

My brother passed this year and I paid an attorney about $1000 for some very basic templated documents on a probate-less estate in CA. The key was setting everything (before passing!) to have myself or the intended recipient as a beneficiary or joint owner. I further distributed the assets per his will and used the Small Estate process for what he had left.

Items my brother placed in my name are legally a gift and I’ll be filing gift tax paperwork in his final return. Note that the Gift Tax is not a paid tax in Federal returns, but a reduction in your Estate Tax exemption. This is still a zero tax transfer since my brother’s estate was no where near that exemption.

For what I further transferred, anything over the gift tax limit will eat into the portion of my Estate Tax exemption that is set to disappear in 2026. It’s low enough that it won’t materially affect me. If it’s extended and I manage to have my own $20MM estate there will definitely be trusts and distributions before I pass.

Estate planning isn’t difficult. Find a good CFP and/or Estate Lawyer and speak with them.

https://www.courts.ca.gov/10440.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en

Sorry for your loss, and glad you and your family got such good advice beforehand.

(The ~$40,000 is based on the fee for a sadly typical $2.5 million SF Bay Area home, bought before the interest-rate hike.)

This law is brutal and completely illogical. It's the kind of shit I'd expect from a very recent mess-turned-democracy country. I wonder if it has been challenged in the SCOTUS.
Imagine one leaves bunch of jewelry and antiques. Does a family member need a will/trust to sell them? Obviously not. You buy a lot of stuff on craigslist, Facebook marketplace, offerup, without having any proof whatsoever. Does this logic extend to immovable property (say, land or home)? Imagine I buy a home from one of the kids(say, X) with cash, without any financing whatsoever, as the will states that upon death, this home goes to X. Another kid disputes this will, saying that (a) there is another will, which supersedes; or (b) that will in the question is fake; or (c) that will in the question was written under duress; etc. That's why buyers want a proof that the will is proper/proved through the court system, before he/she buys such a home. That's why it is called "probate the will". 'Probare' in latin = to prove; probating the will is very important step for buyers of immovable property (land, homes).

In India, often times, multiple kids sell the same inherited property to different parties. Then, this property ends up in legal disputes. Often times, thugs buy such disputed properties, then kicking out other buyers who don't have the political/thug backing. Why such disputes arise in the first place? Dumb buyers, who don't demand the probate.

Probating a will takes time and money: you need to hire a lawyer; these lawyers want 10 percent of the estate or even more; and it takes some time. How to avoid this nonsense? Create another legal person/entity, called trust(treat trusts like companies with assets, stock holders, etc). Have the trust, transfer the ownership of land and real estate to that legal entity, establish trustee and beneficiaries. Dissolve the trust and distribute assets to beneficiaries, without involving the court or even lawyers.

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Consult a trust & estate attorney as there are potential tax consequences if the beneficiary of an IRA or Life Insurance policy is a trust rather than a person or persons.
And for giggles I put a copy of my "How to Disarm A W88 Thermonuclear Warhead" manual in my death-file.
If you have a partner (any kind), talk to them regularly about these things, especially finances. I'm now of an age where people passing is normal and regular, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like "[my partner] pays all the bills...I have no idea what bills we have" and "[my partner] takes care of that...I have no idea what I need to do". Even if you have a spreadsheet for them to stumble upon that lists accounts, that might not tell them things like "what's a normal payment and what's weird" or "this creditor is squirrelly so make sure you pay close attention to them". Or one I had recently: "I didn't know we got a discount on the lawn service because my partner gave the guy a case of beer when he came".

Don't just leave this to a folder full of documents on a computer for them to try and interpret post mortem. Make sure everyone understands what the real situation is and what needs to be taken care of.

"Please delete my browser history."
It is a bit weird to drag your ex-wife and old friends in a public "in case of death".
There’s bitter and then there’s whatever the fuck I just read.