Breath [1] does a far better job of capturing southern ocean surf lifestyle and was filmed not far from The Right proper "storm of the century" offshore break [2].
no joking: it is probably related to an eye issue, it could be that your eyeglasses formula is not correct or that you need to wear them if you don't have them yet.
Yes. First line of attack should be to experiment with improving the quality and/or quantity of your night sleep. If this happens to you mainly after you've been awake for 8 hours, try a mid-day nap.
If none of that helps, investigate medical conditions that might affect your arousal, be they psychiatric (depression, ADD) or physical (sleep apnea, eyes).
A possible remote third option is that you're frequently traveling as a passenger and allow yourself to use the riding time to rest, so your mind associates the running car with a resting place.
I am 41 and still have no driving license. But I can relate to cycling alone outside the cities. There is just something about just moving forward outside the cities without a clear goal.
I’m also in my early forties and got a driver’s license not very long ago.
It seems to me that people who started driving as teenagers have a fundamentally different relationship to the activity. They presumably went through a phase where the license was a manifest symbol of adult freedom and they had fun experimenting with the car. With that fundamental mindset, you can probably enjoy just driving around.
Whereas myself, I don’t find any pleasure in driving. It’s just a necessary chore to get somewhere out of reach by train. It requires a constant level of attention that I’m not used to, and I’m always too conscious of the potential of catastrophic consequences beyond my own control if anyone in traffic makes a mistake or happens to be feeling suicidal. There’s no joy at this age in wrangling these big machines.
I think there’s something true about this, yeah. Which is a bit of a shame; getting over the neuroplastic hump gets harder the older you get, even if it’s to your benefit.
i recentlty heard a neuroscientist who is also an opera singer asked this, and she said that outside of language acquisition, there really isn't any strong evidence that learning becomes harder. old people just forget how much time and energy people put into practise and learning when young. it helps to be in school when your job is basically to learn, and you dont have kids to tend to etc.
i do notice the pull towards resting on ny existing skills as being less work than learning new skills (in software, in my 50s) but i can't be sure that hour for hour the rate is much lower. i do have less energy and more enjoyable leisure alternatives than 30 years ago.
right; i wasn’t exactly suggesting that there’s a physical limitation here (modulo the indeed well documented synaptic pruning in puberty), more that in adulthood, it’s just not possible to sink all your time into learning something the way you can more or less effortlessly do when you’re 15.
Maybe I just don’t need to drive enough to unlock that. On average I do a 4-hour roundtrip every month or so, and that’s all. It’s regular enough to make the drive feel boring, but doesn’t create the daily practice that is central to making progress in most activities. I don’t feel like forcing it either because public transport is so much more convenient in the city.
I think the other commenter is correct; you probably don’t have enough practice (which is fine).
I’ve been driving since I was 15 (almost 30) and have driven hundreds of thousands of miles at this point. I’ve also ridden motorcycles about 30k miles. Driving is what i do when i get upset or stressed and need to clear my head.
The worst part about it is the monetary cost. I moved to Europe and fuel is way more expensive here. I’m trying to get better at coping with long walks but sometimes i just need to drive!
It's a matter of practice for sure. I started noticing that driving started becoming second nature around 40k km driven. Now (>150k driven) it's about 90% subconscious.
not for every one. i am US born, driving forty years now, entire decades with long commutes during which my various skills improved a lot, but its just not that fun. i am not free to direct my attention as i wish, even for the outside scenes one can't let your eyes deeply take in the fog rolling over the mountain like you can on a bike or from a train seat, much less stop to pick up some oxious trash or take that half formed intuition into a good software idea or parenting plan. even light rail with a window seat and wifi is infinitely more enjoyable, for me.
biking will have times like that, and you can't read while biking, but there are always big periods of safety and silence while biking, and you can stop and stretch and take a pic and and sip your water so much more easily than from a car. and you can't avoid the touch of the breeze on your cheek or the smells of the tree sap and the meals being prepared and the garbage. So alive.
I think there's also some difference between whether you learned to drive before or after you gained an appreciation for your own mortality. Teenagers who get their license tend to do some level of stupid stuff, and it helps define what you're capable of behind the wheel. If you always have driven safely (because you're a mature adult who understands you could kill yourself or others), then the "what can I do with my car" border lies in an unknown space going outwards from normal commuter driving. If you spent your teenage years canyon racing, or speeding down the street at 2 am, etc, you know that you're capable of a lot more difficult driving than your day to day.
I had my diving license in my mid-30s as well, but since I did it out of necessity, I tried and took the opportunity to appreciate the potential benefits, because it otherwise would have been way too dull.
I really enjoy driving now. The best decision I've made is to NOT own a car, since I can very easily rent and it makes a lot more sense on every single dimension (finance and operations). I drove a lot of different cars on various trips and every time I rent a new car, I feel like I treated myself with a shiny new toy and everyone seems to enjoy the moment a bit more.
My experience can't compare with a daily commute, of course, but the occasions I have to drive, it is mostly towards a nice outcome, so it's easier to appreciate.
Actually... I'm even training to obtain a motorbike license this year \o/
Congrats to you on taking the hard decision to learn a practical, but let's be honest somewhat dangerous new skill later in life. I have a couple friends in their 30s who live in a rural area but do not drive and it's a real barrier to the enjoyment of their lives. They have been afraid to learn due to the inherent danger of it.
I do want to point out that learning to drive, but not driving regularly, can be a little dangerous. Unfortunately, like with any skill, a lot of driving ability/safety comes from a ton of practice. By not owning a car and only driving less frequently you are getting a lot less practice and in turn will be a less safe driver when you do drive. And constantly changing cars with different rentals all the time will only compound the unfamiliarity. Simply put someone with 100,000 miles of driving experience will tend to be a better driver than someone with 10,000 miles of driving experience. It's one of the reasons why a teenager, despite their excellent reflexes, is not necessarily a good driver (but also impulse control and other things from being young).
If the trade-off is worth it to you, that's cool. But you are what used to be called a "Sunday driver." My grandmother was one who learned later in life and then only drove very occasionally. It's a great life skill but you need to be extra careful. Experience does not come with age, but with miles.
In a bad marriage, you can feel more lonely than the most single person in the world.
In a big family, or in a suffocating relationship, you can dream to be alone because you need me-time to recharge the batteries, especially if you're an introvert.
It's true that humans do better in relationships that alone, but taking on long drives by yourself can be better than seeing a psychologist; reference: I rode motorcycles for 15+ years, and I've travelled the world. I miss it dearly. There is something to be said about experiencing the world for yourself and without sharing it.
if i enjoy it there's no need to write about it: trying to capture in writing such an enjoyment, unless superficial (like in the case of the author), destroys it. if you're into football, this quote by pep guardiola captures this attitude so well. journalist have been trying hard to write about and describe lionel messi. guardiola's advice?
- "don't write about him, don't try to describe him, just watch him."
replace "him" and substitute with something you enjoy.
The ancient Greeks were well aware that man is a political animal, but at the same time they had an entire genre of literature romanticizing shepherds who could sit alone in the wilderness and think their own thoughts. The desire for solitude out in nature is age-old.
(1) that there’s surveillance—whether based on username or vocabulary or ip address or a combination of them and more, we can’t tell.
(2) that calling out weak and unsound argument that is net negative information by way ad hominem—an accepted usage of ad hominem—is contra hacker news. it has resulted in the many and nonsensical comments.
(3) that dang goes hunting for people like me, politely threatening them with a ban if they don’t make quick adjustments to fit the culture. And what’s the culture? Don’t call out people for poorly thought-out argument, nor for potentially disparaging comments about whole groups of people.
What you actually posted was "you're very stupid". That has nothing to do with "thought-out argument" or "whole groups of people". It's just internet name-calling.
i see you edited your comment to remove the offensive bit, before i could ask quis custodes custodit? but doesn’t honesty and culture of hacker news require that you acknowledge the edit in the text that remains?
i was going to say that scolding is what abusive adults do to helpless kids when they assume that kids can’t be reasoned with. so good thing you realized and took it out. just as you hope that i don’t call anyone stupid so i hope you don’t scold any of hacker news’ patrons anymore :)
I add 'edit' once I think someone will have seen a comment, and certainly once there's a reply, but if there are no replies and the glue hasn't dried yet, I often take the first few minutes to edit. Lately I've taken to including the marker "[editing...]" whilst I'm doing that, but I can't remember if I did it in this case or not.
I use the word 'scolding' quite a bit: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., so it's not as if I was trying to hide any tracks there! But I don't use it in the spirit you're describing. I guess I use it to slightly mock the process, including my part in it. This whole internet forum thing is mostly trivial and largely ridiculous.
I'm assuming that you're not trolling so I'm going to reply. People deal in different ways to being alone. Some people abhor it. Totally, utterly despise it. It's the worst feeling in the world for them. I suspect you are in that group.
Then there are people that thoroughly enjoy being by themselves. It doesn't mean that they don't ever need company, just a lot of the time they feel a bliss being by themselves doing their own business. There is no overlap with that feeling and loneliness.
you're jumping to conclusion, my dear friend. i have spent more time alone and by myself than you can imagine, and i still do. it's one of the best things to happen to a human being.
now, being alone (stationary) isn't the same as doing an activity alone. you seem to conflate the two. if you think traveling solo is fun, well you're being sold bullshit at best, worst you're acquiescing to a terrible experience and trying to find joy in it. like a prisoner-author talking about the joys of being locked up because it afforded them the necessary solitude to contemplate.
> if you think traveling solo is fun, well you're being sold bullshit at best, worst you're acquiescing to a terrible experience and trying to find joy in it
Maybe, just maybe, people experience things differently than you, ever thought about that?
I have noticed this also, like some people need to be surrounded by a bubble of noise that disconnects them from others - even in fairly remote situations.
The next person I see who is blasting music from their idiotic bluetooth speakers up on a remote hilltop is going to have to be taken off the bottom of the nearest corrie by the Mountain Rescue Team.
I just argued against the OP by referring to the ancient Greek (and Roman) genre of bucolic poetry, but here, too, I should note that that same genre depicted the wilderness as a good place to play one’s flute or lyre. Maybe people with Bluetooth speakers are just continuing an ancient tradition.
Solitude is essential for mental health, especially for introverts. There's nothing lonely about solitude when you know you have friends, family, and love waiting for you at the end of the trip.
One of my fondest memories is driving back home from the university at 3 am after a 16 hour code grind with friends for final project. Ahh, i miss that.
I like road trips. I've done quite a bit both by myself and with friends.
If you read the text and have an urge to travel, please make sure to be safe.
It's extremely easy to get out of the beaten path and get in trouble.
I've had a couple of close calls in the desert in my early 20s (I'm 34 now), which I deeply regret.
Always have plenty of water (for multiple days if it's dry/too hot/too cold) and capable communication devices (and a smartphone won't cut it in the middle of a desert).
Fully agree. I even prefer the music turned off. I've driven for days like that, it's the ultimate way to travel. If I had the money, I'd book a one way ticket to Italy, and drive a new Lamborghini back home to Norway; stopping by wherever I wanted to along the way.
A friend of a friend of mine sold his business many years ago, and after he had sailed the globe, he took a plane to New Zealand and bought a Harley Davidson motorcycle down there. The he drove it back to Norway; using 6 months to do so (some ferry rides along the way of course); but not a bad way to spend half a year on the planet.
Similar applies train - limits you to the network obviously, but crucially you don't need to pay attention during the commute.
That moves potentially hours of dead time interspersed with occasional looking away from lane to time you can actually use. Stare out window uninterupted or watch a movie on tablet or sleep or read or whatever.
Loads of excellent reasons for preferring a car (big family, limited rail net, equipment etc) but for solo experience it seems inferior to me
Sure, you can optimize for different things. You could argue that the best way to travel alone is by private jet. You get there quickly and in luxury, with a birds-eye view, and have food and drinks served the whole way by your chef. It's all subjective.
The reason I love road-trips in foreign countries is being able to stop wherever I want, whenever I want. Talk to locals, visit small shops, visit a historical site, a museum. If I see a nice waterfall on my map I can just route my GPS to get there.
With a train you have to plan ahead for this. Get out at the right station, figure out how the bus system works and how to get to your destination. And hoping that I can even get there, as an example many countries don't have functioning local public transit on a Sunday. Or because the closest bus stop to where you want to go is a couple kilometers out. It feels very restraining to me.
Completely agree, did it in a few countries and truly enjoyed the freedom of stopping anywhere I wanted, wherever I encountered beautiful surroundings, and staying as long as I wanted, not to forget enjoying the place on my own rather than among a busload of fellow travelers.
Must say though that the Swiss certainly make this much easier to do with their excellent public transport and the Swiss Pass, which is your single ticket to go almost anywhere in the country including trains, buses, subway, boats and even cable cars! In the few cases its not included, you get a discounted rate. However parts of the country are so lovely that hiking through them is the only way to truly appreciate their beauty!
That's why I used to do when living in Tokyo. I would look on Google maps and find any interesting looking water feature (I like looking at large bodies of water) and then just drive in that general direction.
Sometimes it ends up being a dud[0], and sometimes you find something amazingly beautiful [1][2][3][4]
you can just leave the station and walk around aimlessly also. plans are optional to some extent. at least once you have gotten lodging. you might miss some specific waterfall but you will find lots of interesting events.
For me, traveling by train vs solo road trip are completely incomparable. I don’t feel as engaged on the train and much of my time is spent trying to pass by the time faster rather than just taking in the scenery. By contrast, driving solo by car is almost magical. You can go detour where you’d like, drive around to find the best vantage point, stop when and for how long you want. The engagement and focus I have when driving a car or piloting an airplane is totally different than being a passive participant in someone else’s adventure.
I would say that taking a train, flying in as plane as a passenger, or any other form of mass transport is always going to be destination oriented, driving yourself lets you make it about the journey as much or as little as you want.
You should try bike touring if you can! If you love the immersion of driving, cycling, especially in wild environments, is 10x more intense in that regard. Every smell, the feeling of fog or drizzle or sun, the feel of the dirt or road under your wheels and feet, the wind on your face. It's trivial to stop and inspect things near you in a way that the momentum of a car prevents.
That is my goal as I return to better physical fitness! I live in a place with excellent bicycle infrastructure and I’m working on building my stamina again with shorter, 10-ish mile per day stints.
>>crucially you don't need to pay attention during the commute
1. This isn't about "commuting". 2. I'd say "paying attention" is part of the point.
I had a phenomenal experience driving more-or-less this route ( https://goo.gl/maps/iuYPD2oRLwdvZsS36 ) solo very early on a Monday morning while listening to the audio book of Cal Newport's Deep Work. It's a demanding drive if done even a little aggressively (narrow road and a TON of corners). In anything sporty it's an absolute blast, and a great way to enjoy some personal time with no human along to distract you.
I had that feeling once when I was driving and saw a bus full of school children on the other road. It reminded me of when I was at their age and wondering how amazing it must feel for all those strange people in the little cars to have the freedom to go wherever they want.
Cycling is good for that.
I hit every street in what i thought was a tiny town i live nearest to...took ages, and it's on strava (so it counts).
Took all day because i had all day.
Place is a lot bigger than 'only' 8000 inhabitants would ever lead you to believe.
Depends on where you live, I guess. Where I grew up in NW Scotland you can easily rack up a couple of hundred miles a day without actually going anywhere.
I did this a few times on a specific route. It was a +-R1400km trip where about two thirds is desert, and the last third is grasslands. The last time I did this was in January 2022.
I find it very relaxing to drive alone on a highway for 16 hours straight, especially if you are taking it easy.
I do this a lot, it's very relaxing and a good way to take time to just think. When I lived in Seattle I'd often extend my drive home from work by an hour or two. It really helps to turn off work mode. All my holidays are road trips.
The longest one has been a 4400 mile EV (CCS) roadtrip in 2 weeks in July 2021, taking me from Seattle to Yellowstone to Arches to Big Sur and back.
Now that I'm back in Europe and no longer own a car it's probably the one thing I miss most about living in the US, the amount of unseen roads available to go drive on.
Scotland feels positively crowded in the tourist season. There aren't many roads but each of them is the only way in or out of a settlement without a massive detour. Especially if you're anywhere near the "North Coast 500".
I think my greatest empty road experience was, oddly, on the A1; it was shortly after dawn, and for a brief period there were four empty lanes ahead of and behind me. The experience of being the only person in a space designed to be crowded.
I remember being in Chicago on a Sunday morning. No traffic. No pedestrians. No sound other than the wind. I was the only person in sight for a few minutes. It was eerie but cool being somewhere that would be a parking lot in 24 hours.
It's a similar feeling to being the only person in a hotel other than the employee at the front desk.
True, I should have phrased that differently. I was spoiled with variety in Seattle. In a day of driving I could do mountains or desert or water or urban or ocean. Around Stockholm, where I live now, things are a lot more uniform. And it hurts going far with car sharing price per km. In Seattle I had the benefit of free Electrify America charging and flat monthly rate charging in my apartment building so driving was essentially free.
So yeah, circumstances.
I didn't realise how much I'd miss the driving when I moved back to Europe and switched back to a not-insane income level.
I used car sharing a lot during COVID lockdowns but now that I go to work once a week it is no longer financially sensible for me. I was spending over 250 euro per month for commuting once a week plus one weekend trip per month.
The biggest cost of car sharing was having to park the car in front of the office for 9 hours at €3,75 per hour. Or, during weekend trips, spending €75 just for having the car idle in front of the cabin, that price excludes any kilometers driven.
I was surprised this article was talking about driving alone in a car in nature, which is just a lamer version of going hiking, which is not cool, instead of driving alone in a car at night on the Autobahn, which is cool.
Or - also cool - enjoying the solitude whilst driving along the road that the autobahn/motorway/highway replaced because you managed your time so as not to have to hurry to your destination.
I strongly prefer solo motorcycle travel, but it’s at the same time often poignant; i want to share specific moments with a few people, but it’s more or less impossible to do so. So you lean a bit further into the turn, breathe, enjoy the moment, and hope the people you’re thinking of will get that moment one day as well.
There is something that you can only get flying an airplane solo or riding a motorcycle on roads outside of cities and traffic that I've yet to find a substitute for. The adrenaline. The air. The G's (even on small bike or small planes).
Slicing smoothly through the countryside on an empty road, golden hour after a spring rain, the smell of cow farm and cut hay, pulling through big sweepers fast enough to feel the countersteer but somehow dreamlike slow, nothing about the bike in your field of view, just the world and the wind? “i thank you god for most this amazing / day; for the leaping greenly spirits of trees”
Of the poppier books of musings and bikes, i like shop class as soul craft somewhat better.
zen and… would have clicked for me if i had found it as a younger person, but by the time i got around to reading it i had already come around to the major focal points of the book by other means and the impact was less.
I live in the western US. I didn't drive more than necessary because my only vehicle got 11-12mpg. I recently purchased a vehicle that gets 20-27mpg and can do light off-road travel as well, and just this weekend I went on a small expedition to camp, and when that destination was unreachable due to flooding, I had to improvise. I travelled roads I hadn't seen in 25 years or more, and many that I'd never seen at all. I was completely solo, and it was transformative in a wonderful way. Windows down, wind in my hair, radio off.
I had a similar experience when moving 700mi to my current home. I even wrote a song about the effect that solo driving, windows down, radio off, mind fully engaged. It's a thing.
Although it's the riskiest time for deer, I love centering my road trips around dusk, so that you get some daylight, some golden hour softness, a beautiful sunset, and some darkness. It feels like a complete experience that way, a miniature but whole life cycle.
I've taken about 40 solo road trips around North America, about 120,000 miles from Fairbanks, Alaska to San Felipe, Mexico to Key West, Florida to Nova Scotia, Canada and everyplace in between. All 50 states and most Canadian provinces. I spent all my software money but now have memories to replace it.
I did that in an attempt to get sober. I realized that if I stayed home drinking I was going to die, so I moved out one day and hit the road. The experience now forms the foundation of my sobriety. "When I’m alone in epic nature, I feel my own power" is how the article describes it.
I've never explained what I was doing to my family and no one ever asked, but this short article comes closest to an explanation.
I agree. Sometimes getting away from certain people can be beneficial. As William Gibson said "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." Then there's that other saying "Everywhere you go, there you are" which points to yourself as the problem.
I didn't know that quote, but I've thought the same thing often out walking with our dog and her dog friends (and my friends): that being exhausted by dealing with even a single asshole has seriously draining side effects, and that could look like being depressed. but the two things are very different.
Money well spent. And congrats on getting sober. I'm about a year into a my own journey, actually sort of the reverse of your situation - I went on a big bicycle trip (3000 miles) and the sense of agency I had coming home from that spurred me to take control of my substance issues.
In a way more similar to yours, I have planned an escape valve for myself should I come close to committing suicide. I've had a couple near misses, and it's been important for me to realize that I can...just leave. If I'm going to die otherwise, work can wait. Bills, relationships, expectations can wait.
Just get in a car, get on a train, whatever, and leave town.
Congrats on surviving. Your comment reminded me that I was suicidal on some of the trips so figured I'd see if I could get killed by putting myself into some very dangerous situations. I either had a guardian angel or it's not as dangerous to be out in the world as people think. I had to outsmart those who wished me harm and there were a few. I had some very close calls. I discovered I had a "spidy sense" that warned me off. I was amazed at how much courage I had when I didn't care if I died.
I totally agree with you, just leave and see if a change of scenery and getting away from people might bring a new perspective.
>In a way more similar to yours, I have planned an escape valve for myself should I come close to committing suicide.
I like this phrasing. I had a similar revelation when I realized I had the power to abandon everything and "join the circus" before enacting a more permanent solution. Just knowing it is a "plan B" helps avoid feeling trapped and powerless.
I think this feeling of choice and power really helps for some people depressed with their circumstances, but who fundamentally like themselves. Unfortunately, It it isn't a simple fix for everyone and I have to keep this in mind when talking about it with others. If someone's fundamental issue is self-loathing, then running away to join the circus doesn't help because their problem follows them wherever they go.
I lived in the city without a car for over a decade and just started driving again regularly last year. For some reason I absolutely hate driving on highways now. I recently drove from the Chicago area to the Ann Arbor area, and I absolutely hated it. Over the last week I've taken several trips farther into the NW suburbs and really enjoyed it. The big difference was hours of monotonous highways versus some heavily wooded areas.
Similar experience here. I'm almost certain that American drivers got even worse over the last 6 years as I was holed up in the city. Maybe it's more distraction from phones, worse controls/UX... or maybe drivers ed has gotten even worse. American roads have always been filled with absolute morons - maybe our IQ is dropping?
Whatever the reason, I despise driving now, until I get to the mountain backroads.
I used to do that drive about once a week. It can be lovely from Chicago to just around Benton Harbor (hug the bottom of the lake), and then plan to stop in K'zoo to break up the drive.
When you're on a solo road trip and everything lines up—empty, winding road, golden hour lighting, perfect song comes up on shuffle—its magic and sacred.
But a lot of the time, it's also about you driving behind someone going five miles an hour under the speed limit on a two-lane road for 50 miles, or desperately looking for a place to poop that isn't a rancid vault toilet.
Get yourself a car with adaptive cruise control. I've found not needing to manage my speed constantly really helps deal with these types of driving scenarios.
Of course, it also helps if you don't really have a timeline to meet for that trip. :)
Following getting laid off in June of '09, I did my "great unemployed road trip".
Starting from SF... Seattle; Pacific City, OR; (up the coast) Astoria, OR; (down the coast) Bandon, OR; Lassen, CA; Crescent City, CA; Astoria, OR; Pendleton, OR; Mt. Hood (Romana Falls); Forks, WA; Mt. Rainier; Seattle; Banff, AB; Waterton, AB; Glacier NP; Yellowstone NP; Salt Lake City, UT; Vernal, UT; Moab, UT; Denver, CO; Taos, NM; Aspen, CO (car broke - got a new one in Glenwood Springs); Lake City, CO; Steamboat Springs, CO; Devils Tower; Mitchel, SD; and then to family.
This lasted from June through October and had two oil changes on the way... and a new car (the old car was repaired and my family took the train out to pick it up and drive it back - just that I wasn't going to sit in Glenwood Springs for a week while the part was ordered).
It was just me, my camping equipment (went camping in some locations), and my cameras.
No responsibilities, no job, no apartment, no dependents.
I'm glad I did it then - I was younger and had the energy / endurance to do long days of driving and/or hiking with a heavy pack. I wouldn't have quite the same freedom now (house and cat) or endurance (I did a too long day returning from the eclipse in '17 that would have been OK a decade earlier).
This really spoke to me. I also love traveling alone but especially love road-tripping alone. I think part of it is the focus. When I'm driving, I'm doing exactly what I need to be doing, right when I need to be doing it. There aren't bills to pay, laundry to do. There isn't the feeling that I "should" be doing something else. I can enjoy the scenery, and listen to music or podcasts. My mind can wander, a little bit, but it can't wander too far from the task at hand.
This has got to be the most boomer article ever written. In praise of the atomized self in the automobile, not a word about carbon emissions, or the inefficiency of using a whole car to transport just one person.
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[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 211 ms ] threadIt was filmed in Oregon
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breath_(2017_film)
[2] https://youtu.be/xjHaFOGBPzk?t=148
If none of that helps, investigate medical conditions that might affect your arousal, be they psychiatric (depression, ADD) or physical (sleep apnea, eyes).
A possible remote third option is that you're frequently traveling as a passenger and allow yourself to use the riding time to rest, so your mind associates the running car with a resting place.
It seems to me that people who started driving as teenagers have a fundamentally different relationship to the activity. They presumably went through a phase where the license was a manifest symbol of adult freedom and they had fun experimenting with the car. With that fundamental mindset, you can probably enjoy just driving around.
Whereas myself, I don’t find any pleasure in driving. It’s just a necessary chore to get somewhere out of reach by train. It requires a constant level of attention that I’m not used to, and I’m always too conscious of the potential of catastrophic consequences beyond my own control if anyone in traffic makes a mistake or happens to be feeling suicidal. There’s no joy at this age in wrangling these big machines.
i do notice the pull towards resting on ny existing skills as being less work than learning new skills (in software, in my 50s) but i can't be sure that hour for hour the rate is much lower. i do have less energy and more enjoyable leisure alternatives than 30 years ago.
I’ve been driving since I was 15 (almost 30) and have driven hundreds of thousands of miles at this point. I’ve also ridden motorcycles about 30k miles. Driving is what i do when i get upset or stressed and need to clear my head.
The worst part about it is the monetary cost. I moved to Europe and fuel is way more expensive here. I’m trying to get better at coping with long walks but sometimes i just need to drive!
biking will have times like that, and you can't read while biking, but there are always big periods of safety and silence while biking, and you can stop and stretch and take a pic and and sip your water so much more easily than from a car. and you can't avoid the touch of the breeze on your cheek or the smells of the tree sap and the meals being prepared and the garbage. So alive.
I really enjoy driving now. The best decision I've made is to NOT own a car, since I can very easily rent and it makes a lot more sense on every single dimension (finance and operations). I drove a lot of different cars on various trips and every time I rent a new car, I feel like I treated myself with a shiny new toy and everyone seems to enjoy the moment a bit more.
My experience can't compare with a daily commute, of course, but the occasions I have to drive, it is mostly towards a nice outcome, so it's easier to appreciate.
Actually... I'm even training to obtain a motorbike license this year \o/
I do want to point out that learning to drive, but not driving regularly, can be a little dangerous. Unfortunately, like with any skill, a lot of driving ability/safety comes from a ton of practice. By not owning a car and only driving less frequently you are getting a lot less practice and in turn will be a less safe driver when you do drive. And constantly changing cars with different rentals all the time will only compound the unfamiliarity. Simply put someone with 100,000 miles of driving experience will tend to be a better driver than someone with 10,000 miles of driving experience. It's one of the reasons why a teenager, despite their excellent reflexes, is not necessarily a good driver (but also impulse control and other things from being young).
If the trade-off is worth it to you, that's cool. But you are what used to be called a "Sunday driver." My grandmother was one who learned later in life and then only drove very occasionally. It's a great life skill but you need to be extra careful. Experience does not come with age, but with miles.
And even if it would be about loneliness, there's nothing wrong in connecting with people over internet.
I do think everyone should travel alone at least once. I allows you to discover yourself.
In a bad marriage, you can feel more lonely than the most single person in the world.
In a big family, or in a suffocating relationship, you can dream to be alone because you need me-time to recharge the batteries, especially if you're an introvert.
It's true that humans do better in relationships that alone, but taking on long drives by yourself can be better than seeing a psychologist; reference: I rode motorcycles for 15+ years, and I've travelled the world. I miss it dearly. There is something to be said about experiencing the world for yourself and without sharing it.
- "don't write about him, don't try to describe him, just watch him."
replace "him" and substitute with something you enjoy.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
(1) that there’s surveillance—whether based on username or vocabulary or ip address or a combination of them and more, we can’t tell.
(2) that calling out weak and unsound argument that is net negative information by way ad hominem—an accepted usage of ad hominem—is contra hacker news. it has resulted in the many and nonsensical comments.
(3) that dang goes hunting for people like me, politely threatening them with a ban if they don’t make quick adjustments to fit the culture. And what’s the culture? Don’t call out people for poorly thought-out argument, nor for potentially disparaging comments about whole groups of people.
If your intent is to do something nobler than that, great - but the rest of us don't have access to your intent, so the burden is on you to disambiguate it: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....
i was going to say that scolding is what abusive adults do to helpless kids when they assume that kids can’t be reasoned with. so good thing you realized and took it out. just as you hope that i don’t call anyone stupid so i hope you don’t scold any of hacker news’ patrons anymore :)
take care and have a nice day!
I use the word 'scolding' quite a bit: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., so it's not as if I was trying to hide any tracks there! But I don't use it in the spirit you're describing. I guess I use it to slightly mock the process, including my part in it. This whole internet forum thing is mostly trivial and largely ridiculous.
Then there are people that thoroughly enjoy being by themselves. It doesn't mean that they don't ever need company, just a lot of the time they feel a bliss being by themselves doing their own business. There is no overlap with that feeling and loneliness.
now, being alone (stationary) isn't the same as doing an activity alone. you seem to conflate the two. if you think traveling solo is fun, well you're being sold bullshit at best, worst you're acquiescing to a terrible experience and trying to find joy in it. like a prisoner-author talking about the joys of being locked up because it afforded them the necessary solitude to contemplate.
Maybe, just maybe, people experience things differently than you, ever thought about that?
Trains will never replicate that.
If you read the text and have an urge to travel, please make sure to be safe. It's extremely easy to get out of the beaten path and get in trouble. I've had a couple of close calls in the desert in my early 20s (I'm 34 now), which I deeply regret.
Always have plenty of water (for multiple days if it's dry/too hot/too cold) and capable communication devices (and a smartphone won't cut it in the middle of a desert).
A friend of a friend of mine sold his business many years ago, and after he had sailed the globe, he took a plane to New Zealand and bought a Harley Davidson motorcycle down there. The he drove it back to Norway; using 6 months to do so (some ferry rides along the way of course); but not a bad way to spend half a year on the planet.
That moves potentially hours of dead time interspersed with occasional looking away from lane to time you can actually use. Stare out window uninterupted or watch a movie on tablet or sleep or read or whatever.
Loads of excellent reasons for preferring a car (big family, limited rail net, equipment etc) but for solo experience it seems inferior to me
With a train you have to plan ahead for this. Get out at the right station, figure out how the bus system works and how to get to your destination. And hoping that I can even get there, as an example many countries don't have functioning local public transit on a Sunday. Or because the closest bus stop to where you want to go is a couple kilometers out. It feels very restraining to me.
With public transport, you aren't responsible for the logistics of moving yourself. However, you also aren't free to move as you please.
With private transport, you are responsible for the logistics of moving yourself. However, you also are free to move as you please.
Public transport is circuit-switched like the Bell System (i.e. trains must physically "switch the road" to change track).
Private transport is packet-switched like the Internet. Not a big truck, not a series of tubes, but a series of small trucks :)
Must say though that the Swiss certainly make this much easier to do with their excellent public transport and the Swiss Pass, which is your single ticket to go almost anywhere in the country including trains, buses, subway, boats and even cable cars! In the few cases its not included, you get a discounted rate. However parts of the country are so lovely that hiking through them is the only way to truly appreciate their beauty!
Sometimes it ends up being a dud[0], and sometimes you find something amazingly beautiful [1][2][3][4]
[0]: https://goo.gl/maps/FoE51Cc8KzJVCocn7
[1]: https://goo.gl/maps/z5CMS4NpTAukgNct9
[2]: https://goo.gl/maps/ZEBCbw6d1h1YWFAYA
[3]: https://goo.gl/maps/A6ZHCT97z2kdrxas9
[4]: https://goo.gl/maps/SxLk2S4D1jFkDhU69
I would say that taking a train, flying in as plane as a passenger, or any other form of mass transport is always going to be destination oriented, driving yourself lets you make it about the journey as much or as little as you want.
1. This isn't about "commuting". 2. I'd say "paying attention" is part of the point.
I had a phenomenal experience driving more-or-less this route ( https://goo.gl/maps/iuYPD2oRLwdvZsS36 ) solo very early on a Monday morning while listening to the audio book of Cal Newport's Deep Work. It's a demanding drive if done even a little aggressively (narrow road and a TON of corners). In anything sporty it's an absolute blast, and a great way to enjoy some personal time with no human along to distract you.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35003547
I used to regularly drive 20h from where I lived to my family home to visit friends, show up in the office etc.
Dangerous if you do it in one take, so I split it into two legs.
I had no music on for the most part because it was tiring. Gave me a lot of time to ponder about some things in my life.
Power over what?
I've spent much time alone, driving, biking, but I'm not sure I understand what he means by feeling power.
The longest one has been a 4400 mile EV (CCS) roadtrip in 2 weeks in July 2021, taking me from Seattle to Yellowstone to Arches to Big Sur and back.
Now that I'm back in Europe and no longer own a car it's probably the one thing I miss most about living in the US, the amount of unseen roads available to go drive on.
Northern Scandinavia and Scotland are two good examples.
I agree that nothing quite compares to middle-of-nowhere USA or Canada, though.
I think my greatest empty road experience was, oddly, on the A1; it was shortly after dawn, and for a brief period there were four empty lanes ahead of and behind me. The experience of being the only person in a space designed to be crowded.
Driving in or around London at 4am is magnificent. Huge roads with no-one to use them.
It's a similar feeling to being the only person in a hotel other than the employee at the front desk.
So yeah, circumstances.
I didn't realise how much I'd miss the driving when I moved back to Europe and switched back to a not-insane income level.
The biggest cost of car sharing was having to park the car in front of the office for 9 hours at €3,75 per hour. Or, during weekend trips, spending €75 just for having the car idle in front of the cabin, that price excludes any kilometers driven.
Wir fahren, fahren, fahren auf der Autobahn"
Slicing smoothly through the countryside on an empty road, golden hour after a spring rain, the smell of cow farm and cut hay, pulling through big sweepers fast enough to feel the countersteer but somehow dreamlike slow, nothing about the bike in your field of view, just the world and the wind? “i thank you god for most this amazing / day; for the leaping greenly spirits of trees”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_...
zen and… would have clicked for me if i had found it as a younger person, but by the time i got around to reading it i had already come around to the major focal points of the book by other means and the impact was less.
I had a similar experience when moving 700mi to my current home. I even wrote a song about the effect that solo driving, windows down, radio off, mind fully engaged. It's a thing.
I did that in an attempt to get sober. I realized that if I stayed home drinking I was going to die, so I moved out one day and hit the road. The experience now forms the foundation of my sobriety. "When I’m alone in epic nature, I feel my own power" is how the article describes it.
I've never explained what I was doing to my family and no one ever asked, but this short article comes closest to an explanation.
Thanks for sharing that quote!
Money well spent. And congrats on getting sober. I'm about a year into a my own journey, actually sort of the reverse of your situation - I went on a big bicycle trip (3000 miles) and the sense of agency I had coming home from that spurred me to take control of my substance issues.
In a way more similar to yours, I have planned an escape valve for myself should I come close to committing suicide. I've had a couple near misses, and it's been important for me to realize that I can...just leave. If I'm going to die otherwise, work can wait. Bills, relationships, expectations can wait.
Just get in a car, get on a train, whatever, and leave town.
I totally agree with you, just leave and see if a change of scenery and getting away from people might bring a new perspective.
I like this phrasing. I had a similar revelation when I realized I had the power to abandon everything and "join the circus" before enacting a more permanent solution. Just knowing it is a "plan B" helps avoid feeling trapped and powerless.
I think this feeling of choice and power really helps for some people depressed with their circumstances, but who fundamentally like themselves. Unfortunately, It it isn't a simple fix for everyone and I have to keep this in mind when talking about it with others. If someone's fundamental issue is self-loathing, then running away to join the circus doesn't help because their problem follows them wherever they go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HQqXllXpfQ
Whatever the reason, I despise driving now, until I get to the mountain backroads.
But a lot of the time, it's also about you driving behind someone going five miles an hour under the speed limit on a two-lane road for 50 miles, or desperately looking for a place to poop that isn't a rancid vault toilet.
Of course, it also helps if you don't really have a timeline to meet for that trip. :)
Starting from SF... Seattle; Pacific City, OR; (up the coast) Astoria, OR; (down the coast) Bandon, OR; Lassen, CA; Crescent City, CA; Astoria, OR; Pendleton, OR; Mt. Hood (Romana Falls); Forks, WA; Mt. Rainier; Seattle; Banff, AB; Waterton, AB; Glacier NP; Yellowstone NP; Salt Lake City, UT; Vernal, UT; Moab, UT; Denver, CO; Taos, NM; Aspen, CO (car broke - got a new one in Glenwood Springs); Lake City, CO; Steamboat Springs, CO; Devils Tower; Mitchel, SD; and then to family.
This lasted from June through October and had two oil changes on the way... and a new car (the old car was repaired and my family took the train out to pick it up and drive it back - just that I wasn't going to sit in Glenwood Springs for a week while the part was ordered).
It was just me, my camping equipment (went camping in some locations), and my cameras.
No responsibilities, no job, no apartment, no dependents.
I'm glad I did it then - I was younger and had the energy / endurance to do long days of driving and/or hiking with a heavy pack. I wouldn't have quite the same freedom now (house and cat) or endurance (I did a too long day returning from the eclipse in '17 that would have been OK a decade earlier).