They bought into something they fundamentally didn’t understand (not implying I do, it just seems they didn’t).
Podcasts are radio for the modern era, and radio has never been a hugely profitable business. When it is, it makes money on ads, full stop. Subs don’t make up for ad revenue.
They made some shows exclusive in a medium overflowing with content, so people like me said “huh this is exclusive to a service I’m not paying for, I guess I’ll just listen to one of the million shows in my queue instead.”
Good for Gimlet for getting while the getting was good.
> people like me said “huh this is exclusive to a service I’m not paying for, I guess I’ll just listen to one of the million shows in my queue instead.”
This is what happened back in the day with Howard Stern too. His reach and cultural importance shrank, just like Joe Rogans now, as soon as he took the cash went behind a paywall.
To be clear, I'm sure there are plenty of people that do, but I still think it's a minority, and I also think it's an illusion of liking them.
I've tried many times, but I just don't get the value proposition: If I'm doing something else at the same time, I would rather listen to music because anyway I won't be focused enough to not lose track of the podcast every 30 sec. If I'm fully dedicated to the podcast, well I'd rather watch it as a video or read a book.
I just feel like it tries to fit in a niche that simply doesn't exist.
To me people that like podcasts are the same that like self-improvement books. It makes you feel like you did something productive, when you actually barely listened, achieved nothing, and just had less of a good time than if I did something else.
The sheer diversity of content, and low barriers to entry ensures that almost anyone could find something that suits their interests, no matter how niche.
Many people such as myself don't have trouble focusing on a podcasts while doing mundane tasks (cleaning, gardening, driving, going to the gym etc) and happily fill that time by listening to something interesting/entertaining. I don't really understand your point about being "productive", as being productive is not my objective when listening to a podcast.
Maybe podcasts are not for you. That's fine. There's lots of entertainment forms that are not for me.
I don’t know whether other people do but I certainly do. I listen to Rich Roll or Peter Attia while running and find the interviews they do informative or inspiring or both. I could listen to music instead but despite the options I still find myself choosing to listen to podcasts. Same thing happens on the rare occasion when I have to drive a distance longer than 30 min - I nearly always find myself choosing a podcast and excited to get into something interesting!
You are right though - try cooking dinner while listen to a podcast and I’ll screw it up. Too much competition for cognitive load between these activities.
> If I'm doing something else at the same time, I would rather listen to music because anyway I won't be focused enough to not lose track of the podcast every 30 sec.
I tend to listen to then when doing something relatively mindless (walking, cleaning, on the bus, etc etc). I don't find concentration to be an issue there; your mileage may vary. I found I listened to them a lot more during the pandemic, when I really wanted to avoid silence.
> It makes you feel like you did something productive, when you actually barely listened, achieved nothing
This... feels like a weird way of looking at it? I'm not looking to _achieve_ something; I generally listen to podcasts because they are _entertaining_. I'd put them in the same general bucket as audiobooks.
I think people, particularly people who don't listen to podcasts, tend to assume that they're all interview-format. None of the podcasts I listen to are; the closest would be "Behind the Bastards", which does generally have a guest; however the role of the guest is effectively for the host to have someone to tell a story to.
I like radio shows. I listen to some BBC radio 4 comedy shows that are available as "podcasts". Only in the car though, that seems to be the only situation where my attention level is just right.
Other than that I'm with you though. It works for comedy. For anything else I'd rather an engaging video or text.
As an aside, I wish more people listened to comedy, especially satire and absurd. Most podcasts seem to be lengthy talk about something you could read about in 1/10th of the time.
The only one I listen to is 538, today it is relevant to my job but I was a fan before I was working on a web site about public opinion.
For the most part I prefer reading but I do follow quite a few YouTubers who I often listen to in the background. It seems to me this is the best way to follow the Ukraine war and it was Techmoan that rekindled my interest in A/V gear.
>I've tried many times, but I just don't get the value proposition: If I'm doing something else at the same time, I would rather listen to music because anyway I won't be focused enough to not lose track of the podcast every 30 sec. If I'm fully dedicated to the podcast, well I'd rather watch it as a video or read a book.
>
>I just feel like it tries to fit in a niche that simply doesn't exist.
The primary times when I listen to podcasts is:
- While biking
- While doing manual work involving low mental stimulation (washing dishes, laundry, other cleaning, etc.)
- While taking a walk
If I have my eyes available, I watch video content. If my brain is occupied, I listen to music at most.
As someone who has entirely replaced listening to music with listening to podcasts and audiobooks your post confuses me. I experience no more cognitive load than I would if I was having a conversation on the subject. If I have the mental bandwidth to listen to music while I’m working on a task then I have the bandwidth to listen to a podcast too.
Your last paragraph also seems to be painting people who listen to podcasts into a very narrow corner. You can find podcasts on everything from history and science to comedy and games. Personally one of my favorite podcasts right now is a comedy focused dnd campaign that I throw on when I drive to work.
I concur. I've tried listening to podcasts in the background while doing anything on PC and it always results in me losing track of what has been said. So work, games and any video with graphical content (i.e. not just faces of people talking) all hinder listening to podcasts which cuts out about a half of the awake time. And in the rest - I would either listen to a music or to silence. The only viable place for podcasts I've found was driving, and not any driving (because same issue occurs - losing track of the topic when actively driving), but specifically standing in the traffic jam for an hour. There yeah, it fits.
And another problem is that after listening to chunk of a podcast and having to stop in the mid stream I almost never return to continue it. It just stops being interesting and I lose context. With some exceptions of course.
This whole idea of platform-specific podcasts always seemed a little odd, anyway. If a podcast that I listen to went to a specific platform, I'd... probably just stop listening to it? Life is too short.
> “Someone joked to me the other day that Spotify spent a billion dollars to become Acast,”
I think that's probably optimistic for Spotify. I listened to, at peak, I think, three podcasts from Acast (two have since ended), and would definitely recognise the name. I'd completely forgotten Spotify even _did_ podcasts until this article.
I know I'm just one voice, but a podcast I listened to moved behind the Spotify platform, and I just stopped listening to it. I was already bought-in to that platform. I use Spotify premium for music. But only for music. I don't want my recommendations filling up with podcasts, I want my music platform to be my music platform. I use my podcast app for podcasts. It's better at it. And no amount of exclusives is going to change that when there is an endless ocean of interesting podcasts that can fill each my interest niches easily available on my podcast app.
I started using Spotify for podcasts occasionally, and it hasn’t seemed to clutter anything up for me. But if you already have a podcast app you love, that makes sense.
Spotify’s podcast player is fine, but there are better ones. They clearly did put effort into it, it’s on par with the Apple Podcasts app IMO, but small indie apps have a knack for making better products than huge companies.
I don't watch Youtube, in general (exception; certain old BBC sitcoms which the BBC doesn't bother copyright claiming are there). I subscribe to a couple of TV streaming services, but if something isn't on one of them, well, I don't watch it.
I'm actually a Spotify subscriber, but I don't think I'd listen to podcasts on it; I have a workflow for listening to podcasts which I don't want to mess with. Ultimately, podcasts come and go, and I have too many of them to listen to anyway.
(Exception: if Three Bean Salad went to Spotify, I'd probably grudgingly listen to it there. Don't get any ideas, Spotify.)
There is one non Spotify platform specific podcast I sometimes listen to (the Nebula podcast for Jet Lag) but they distribute it as an RSS feed + the honor system or a player in their app/website for people who don’t know how to set up RSS, and it makes sense since the podcast is effectively a bonus perk for the people who are funding the show so it’s not like they’re building an exclusive podcast platform or anything.
The title of the article implies that Spotify had a plan.
I don't think that's accurate.
Unless their plan was "1. sign Joe Rogan 2. ??? 3. Profit", implying that they had a plan at all is stretching it.
They are a digital music platform, nothing more, and nothing less. They waded into unknown territory, spent a ton of money (that should have been going to artists already on their platform) making a stupid bet that backfired. They did this while having little real revenue outside ads and subscriptions. They angered their primary userbase and alienated content providers. The inevitable blowup was foreseeable.
22 comments
[ 12.9 ms ] story [ 1184 ms ] threadThey bought into something they fundamentally didn’t understand (not implying I do, it just seems they didn’t).
Podcasts are radio for the modern era, and radio has never been a hugely profitable business. When it is, it makes money on ads, full stop. Subs don’t make up for ad revenue.
They made some shows exclusive in a medium overflowing with content, so people like me said “huh this is exclusive to a service I’m not paying for, I guess I’ll just listen to one of the million shows in my queue instead.”
Good for Gimlet for getting while the getting was good.
This is what happened back in the day with Howard Stern too. His reach and cultural importance shrank, just like Joe Rogans now, as soon as he took the cash went behind a paywall.
To be clear, I'm sure there are plenty of people that do, but I still think it's a minority, and I also think it's an illusion of liking them.
I've tried many times, but I just don't get the value proposition: If I'm doing something else at the same time, I would rather listen to music because anyway I won't be focused enough to not lose track of the podcast every 30 sec. If I'm fully dedicated to the podcast, well I'd rather watch it as a video or read a book.
I just feel like it tries to fit in a niche that simply doesn't exist.
To me people that like podcasts are the same that like self-improvement books. It makes you feel like you did something productive, when you actually barely listened, achieved nothing, and just had less of a good time than if I did something else.
But maybe I'm missing something.
https://explodingtopics.com/blog/podcast-listeners
The sheer diversity of content, and low barriers to entry ensures that almost anyone could find something that suits their interests, no matter how niche.
Many people such as myself don't have trouble focusing on a podcasts while doing mundane tasks (cleaning, gardening, driving, going to the gym etc) and happily fill that time by listening to something interesting/entertaining. I don't really understand your point about being "productive", as being productive is not my objective when listening to a podcast.
Maybe podcasts are not for you. That's fine. There's lots of entertainment forms that are not for me.
I don’t know whether other people do but I certainly do. I listen to Rich Roll or Peter Attia while running and find the interviews they do informative or inspiring or both. I could listen to music instead but despite the options I still find myself choosing to listen to podcasts. Same thing happens on the rare occasion when I have to drive a distance longer than 30 min - I nearly always find myself choosing a podcast and excited to get into something interesting!
You are right though - try cooking dinner while listen to a podcast and I’ll screw it up. Too much competition for cognitive load between these activities.
I tend to listen to then when doing something relatively mindless (walking, cleaning, on the bus, etc etc). I don't find concentration to be an issue there; your mileage may vary. I found I listened to them a lot more during the pandemic, when I really wanted to avoid silence.
> It makes you feel like you did something productive, when you actually barely listened, achieved nothing
This... feels like a weird way of looking at it? I'm not looking to _achieve_ something; I generally listen to podcasts because they are _entertaining_. I'd put them in the same general bucket as audiobooks.
I think people, particularly people who don't listen to podcasts, tend to assume that they're all interview-format. None of the podcasts I listen to are; the closest would be "Behind the Bastards", which does generally have a guest; however the role of the guest is effectively for the host to have someone to tell a story to.
Other than that I'm with you though. It works for comedy. For anything else I'd rather an engaging video or text.
As an aside, I wish more people listened to comedy, especially satire and absurd. Most podcasts seem to be lengthy talk about something you could read about in 1/10th of the time.
For the most part I prefer reading but I do follow quite a few YouTubers who I often listen to in the background. It seems to me this is the best way to follow the Ukraine war and it was Techmoan that rekindled my interest in A/V gear.
I do, I listen to >50 hours a month.
>I've tried many times, but I just don't get the value proposition: If I'm doing something else at the same time, I would rather listen to music because anyway I won't be focused enough to not lose track of the podcast every 30 sec. If I'm fully dedicated to the podcast, well I'd rather watch it as a video or read a book. > >I just feel like it tries to fit in a niche that simply doesn't exist.
The primary times when I listen to podcasts is:
- While biking - While doing manual work involving low mental stimulation (washing dishes, laundry, other cleaning, etc.) - While taking a walk
If I have my eyes available, I watch video content. If my brain is occupied, I listen to music at most.
Your last paragraph also seems to be painting people who listen to podcasts into a very narrow corner. You can find podcasts on everything from history and science to comedy and games. Personally one of my favorite podcasts right now is a comedy focused dnd campaign that I throw on when I drive to work.
And another problem is that after listening to chunk of a podcast and having to stop in the mid stream I almost never return to continue it. It just stops being interesting and I lose context. With some exceptions of course.
Ad supported infotainment is nauseating. Roughly the same low signal to noise across mediums (print, cable, radio, TV, podcasts).
I still sometimes scan corporate media headlines for general purpose news. And, obviously, use HN, lobste.rs, and others for geek news.
> “Someone joked to me the other day that Spotify spent a billion dollars to become Acast,”
I think that's probably optimistic for Spotify. I listened to, at peak, I think, three podcasts from Acast (two have since ended), and would definitely recognise the name. I'd completely forgotten Spotify even _did_ podcasts until this article.
I'm actually a Spotify subscriber, but I don't think I'd listen to podcasts on it; I have a workflow for listening to podcasts which I don't want to mess with. Ultimately, podcasts come and go, and I have too many of them to listen to anyway.
(Exception: if Three Bean Salad went to Spotify, I'd probably grudgingly listen to it there. Don't get any ideas, Spotify.)
There is a vast chasm between podcast listeners and video viewers....
I don't think that's accurate.
Unless their plan was "1. sign Joe Rogan 2. ??? 3. Profit", implying that they had a plan at all is stretching it.
They are a digital music platform, nothing more, and nothing less. They waded into unknown territory, spent a ton of money (that should have been going to artists already on their platform) making a stupid bet that backfired. They did this while having little real revenue outside ads and subscriptions. They angered their primary userbase and alienated content providers. The inevitable blowup was foreseeable.