Growing public fruit trees, handing out food, stopping to help an injured person, all of those are illegal in some jurisdictions or can get you into serious legal trouble.
That is because laws exist not just to stop bad things but also to stop good things from happening, or at least centralize how good things are done.
I mean, otherwise what would happen? We’d all probably just take care of each other, and we can’t have that happening.
You know, one aspect that doesn't appear to be covered in that article is scams. There are often scams perpetrated where someone fakes injury or accident, either to create a diversion, or to attract wannabe "Good Samaritans" who come to render assistance and then find themselves pickpocketed or in worse trouble than they started out.
There are also people who pretend to be out of gas and just need a can filled at the local service station. A guy came up to me at a train station and showed me all his sores, and I offered to take him to the drugstore and purchase some bandages, but the only reason he was showing me sores was because he was a panhandler and he wanted cash.
I stay away from anyone who looks like they require assistance. Life is too short. I am not a professional first responder and it's not my job to diagnose or treat any illness or injury. I may call 911 if I see something unambiguously egregious, but nowadays, there are usually so many witnesses carrying mobile phones that I don't need to bother.
Thanks for the commentary-free Wikipedia article link, but in skimming across it, I don't see any significant mention of the cases I discussed which are scammers who are faking it. The article chiefly seems to be concerned with real, or perceived real, emergencies, and how they relate to large crowds of witnesses.
If is often the case that scammers who are faking distress will isolate and approach potential victims rather than attract a crowd. Especially with people who lurk outside of grocery stores or some other venue. Once I was approached by an "out of gas" individual at a rather lonely intersection of downtown. There were no other witnesses around, until an official in a uniform vest came to intervene.
I don't stay away. I frequently get stuck in, calling the police, ambulance and fire services for people, assisting epileptics in shops and planes, helping lost children, picking up random dogs and returning them to their owners...
Why do you think life is too short, I've always thought it the perfect length, do divulge what it is that takes the time for you?
I suppose you're just the epitome of a good samaritan in the right place at the right time.
None of that stuff happens to me. How would I assist an epileptic, or a lost child, in a way that could not be better done by a professional who is trained and commissioned to do such things? I would do more harm than good, me, a stranger in a big city, putting my nose in where it doesn't belong. Especially with minor children. That's unthinkable--where are their parents? If I found a minor without her parents then I would contact authorities, not try to place myself at risk, because whatever separated her from her parents, must be bad news.
I do charitable works through the organizations where I am a member. I assist in humanitarian missions in an organized way, not as a stranger on the street with a mobile phone. My life is too short to get caught up in strangers' drama, because that will definitely shorten my life, and possibly also drain my pocketbook, place marks on my criminal record, or indeed put my own self at risk of injury. The cost is too great and there is no reward for random involvement like that. As I said, it usually turns out to be a scam anyway.
"I suppose you're just the epitome of a good Samaritan in the right place at the right time."
And you will be in the right place, at the right time, at some time, then you can choose to act or ignore, I hope you can find it in you to act.
I think I am just normal, and you are avoiding getting involved because of fear, but I guess as none of that stuff happens to you then really you have no idea of what you would do?
The epileptic had an episode mid flight, after the request for a doctor or medical personnel raised no assistance I stepped into to assist a 20'ish flight attendant with no idea what to do, in case you are wondering, here's what you do.
"
It might be scary to witness, but do not panic.
If you're with someone having a seizure:
only move them if they're in danger, such as near a busy road or hot cooker
cushion their head if they're on the ground
loosen any tight clothing around their neck, such as a collar or tie, to aid breathing
turn them on to their side after their convulsions stop
stay with them and talk to them calmly until they recover
note the time the seizure starts and finishes
"
"If I found a minor without her parents then I would contact authorities"
Ok, so let's play a scenario, you are walking along the street alone, and you see a small child, of the age you'd normally expect to be accompanied. In your world you what? Phone the authorities, right, so in the 10 to 30 minutes that it might take to raise that help, what are you going to do, just walk off and think, well, I called the authorities and now it's not my problem, you just walk away leaving a child on their own?
The minor's I assisted were walking through a park late at night in their bedclothes, me and a partner contacted the authorities then hung around as it seemed odd, not long after some very grateful parents turned up, the children had simply decided to take a walk.
"I would do more harm than good, me, a stranger in a big city, putting my nose in where it doesn't belong"
Everyone is a stranger in a big city. That's the thing isn't it, now imagine if everyone felt like you, no one would get involved in anything that didn't directly benefit them and carried no risk. You are content to let the police, fire and ambulance services get involved, they are people too, do you think they don't fear injury or perhaps because you feel you pay them to do it, that makes it okay for them to take on risk and you to avoid it?
That is a sad state of affairs. Evil thrives when average people do nothing...
"My life is too short to get caught up in strangers' drama, because that will definitely shorten my life, and possibly also drain my pocketbook, place marks on my criminal record, or indeed put my own self at risk of injury"
You have no idea what tomorrow brings, how long or short your life will be, or if your actions today will set into motion an event that is bad, or good. You are worried about your pocket book, having a criminal record, injury, I understand that, now, can you tell me what you do with this life that is so worth distancing yourself from any risk? Would you make exceptions if you had family or friends who need help, or would that too be based on an initial risk assessment?
What if you helped a stranger who spotted a mole on the back of your head that looked odd, then you got it checked out and removed and that saved your life... I'm not saying that's likely, but your spin, that any involvement in society carries too much risk is perhaps forgetting how little of life we have control over...
"As I said, it usually turns out to be a scam anyway" based on your experience, which you state is that you don't get involved, so what experience do you have to judge?
It covers it in specific cases for specific people. If you help someone not in those specific cases and/or are not that specific kind of person, you can be punished for it.
In all of those cases I’m pretty sure you can’t in fact be arrested just for the act as described. You need to be in some way negligent or malicious in doing so, and in most countries at least you have to be extremely negligent to get prosecuted for anything done while rendering aid to an injured person.
Even more generally, some form of harm needs to be shown to prosecute. Unfortunately there’s an increasingly broad definition of “harm”, at least here in the UK, but for now you do have to really screw up in any of the cases you’ve listed.
> I feel like if we did we’d see more good things happening.
The problem is that we'd see more bad things happening. This time someone correctly patched the devices, but maybe next time they make a mistake and leave things more vulnerable, and the next time someone just bricks devices outright because they decide that's better than vulnerable devices on the open internet.
Someone who decides to mess non-consensually with 100,000 other people's network routers... Maybe it's a bit like the saying about politicians: you don't want anyone who would want the job.
While it may be possible for this person to face criminal charges, I doubt any police force or attorney general would really want to investigate or charge this person. And a civil case would require the claimant to prove damages, which they'd struggle to do.
So aren't we already at a point where this is condoned/ignored?
Perhaps for one person doing it a few times and competently patching systems.
What happens when a more novice grey hat tries it and bricks the machines? What happens if they patch the routers with software patches that have embedded malware?
Ultimately, patching systems on the internet means you are very likely crossing jurisdictional boundaries, so beware what governments you might piss off.
Personally, I like that prosecutors in the US are ethically bound to understand why the suspect did what they did (their intentions/motivations) and that prosecutors have the duty to prosecute only cases that they can convince juries to convict on. More than that, prosecutors rarely have lots of spare cycles, so they have to plan+choose their prosecution resources judiciously.
And then civil liability is very different from criminal prosecution.
>What happens when a more novice grey hat tries it and bricks the machines? What happens if they patch the routers with software patches that have embedded malware?
Then a civil claim could show damages, or there would be some amount of motivation for the state to go after them.
Problem is, there's a bad update combination for the RB1100 that can cause it to get into a reboot loop that has to be resolved in person with a direct connection and a recovery tool.
That's not really true; the default firewall set is configured by quickset.
What roles are available in quickset depends on the device; routers/APs for SOHO segment do have sensible firewall rules there.
You used a switch with L3 capabilities. This isn't intended for firewall or NAT application (the performance would be abysmal), so it does not have similar rules by default.
33 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 108 ms ] threadI feel like if we did we’d see more good things happening.
That is because laws exist not just to stop bad things but also to stop good things from happening, or at least centralize how good things are done.
I mean, otherwise what would happen? We’d all probably just take care of each other, and we can’t have that happening.
can you be more specific please? where and in which case?
There are also people who pretend to be out of gas and just need a can filled at the local service station. A guy came up to me at a train station and showed me all his sores, and I offered to take him to the drugstore and purchase some bandages, but the only reason he was showing me sores was because he was a panhandler and he wanted cash.
I stay away from anyone who looks like they require assistance. Life is too short. I am not a professional first responder and it's not my job to diagnose or treat any illness or injury. I may call 911 if I see something unambiguously egregious, but nowadays, there are usually so many witnesses carrying mobile phones that I don't need to bother.
If is often the case that scammers who are faking distress will isolate and approach potential victims rather than attract a crowd. Especially with people who lurk outside of grocery stores or some other venue. Once I was approached by an "out of gas" individual at a rather lonely intersection of downtown. There were no other witnesses around, until an official in a uniform vest came to intervene.
Why do you think life is too short, I've always thought it the perfect length, do divulge what it is that takes the time for you?
None of that stuff happens to me. How would I assist an epileptic, or a lost child, in a way that could not be better done by a professional who is trained and commissioned to do such things? I would do more harm than good, me, a stranger in a big city, putting my nose in where it doesn't belong. Especially with minor children. That's unthinkable--where are their parents? If I found a minor without her parents then I would contact authorities, not try to place myself at risk, because whatever separated her from her parents, must be bad news.
I do charitable works through the organizations where I am a member. I assist in humanitarian missions in an organized way, not as a stranger on the street with a mobile phone. My life is too short to get caught up in strangers' drama, because that will definitely shorten my life, and possibly also drain my pocketbook, place marks on my criminal record, or indeed put my own self at risk of injury. The cost is too great and there is no reward for random involvement like that. As I said, it usually turns out to be a scam anyway.
And you will be in the right place, at the right time, at some time, then you can choose to act or ignore, I hope you can find it in you to act.
I think I am just normal, and you are avoiding getting involved because of fear, but I guess as none of that stuff happens to you then really you have no idea of what you would do?
The epileptic had an episode mid flight, after the request for a doctor or medical personnel raised no assistance I stepped into to assist a 20'ish flight attendant with no idea what to do, in case you are wondering, here's what you do.
" It might be scary to witness, but do not panic.
If you're with someone having a seizure:
only move them if they're in danger, such as near a busy road or hot cooker cushion their head if they're on the ground loosen any tight clothing around their neck, such as a collar or tie, to aid breathing turn them on to their side after their convulsions stop stay with them and talk to them calmly until they recover note the time the seizure starts and finishes "
"If I found a minor without her parents then I would contact authorities"
Ok, so let's play a scenario, you are walking along the street alone, and you see a small child, of the age you'd normally expect to be accompanied. In your world you what? Phone the authorities, right, so in the 10 to 30 minutes that it might take to raise that help, what are you going to do, just walk off and think, well, I called the authorities and now it's not my problem, you just walk away leaving a child on their own?
The minor's I assisted were walking through a park late at night in their bedclothes, me and a partner contacted the authorities then hung around as it seemed odd, not long after some very grateful parents turned up, the children had simply decided to take a walk.
"I would do more harm than good, me, a stranger in a big city, putting my nose in where it doesn't belong"
Everyone is a stranger in a big city. That's the thing isn't it, now imagine if everyone felt like you, no one would get involved in anything that didn't directly benefit them and carried no risk. You are content to let the police, fire and ambulance services get involved, they are people too, do you think they don't fear injury or perhaps because you feel you pay them to do it, that makes it okay for them to take on risk and you to avoid it?
That is a sad state of affairs. Evil thrives when average people do nothing...
"My life is too short to get caught up in strangers' drama, because that will definitely shorten my life, and possibly also drain my pocketbook, place marks on my criminal record, or indeed put my own self at risk of injury"
You have no idea what tomorrow brings, how long or short your life will be, or if your actions today will set into motion an event that is bad, or good. You are worried about your pocket book, having a criminal record, injury, I understand that, now, can you tell me what you do with this life that is so worth distancing yourself from any risk? Would you make exceptions if you had family or friends who need help, or would that too be based on an initial risk assessment?
What if you helped a stranger who spotted a mole on the back of your head that looked odd, then you got it checked out and removed and that saved your life... I'm not saying that's likely, but your spin, that any involvement in society carries too much risk is perhaps forgetting how little of life we have control over...
Even more generally, some form of harm needs to be shown to prosecute. Unfortunately there’s an increasingly broad definition of “harm”, at least here in the UK, but for now you do have to really screw up in any of the cases you’ve listed.
The problem is that we'd see more bad things happening. This time someone correctly patched the devices, but maybe next time they make a mistake and leave things more vulnerable, and the next time someone just bricks devices outright because they decide that's better than vulnerable devices on the open internet.
So aren't we already at a point where this is condoned/ignored?
What happens when a more novice grey hat tries it and bricks the machines? What happens if they patch the routers with software patches that have embedded malware?
Ultimately, patching systems on the internet means you are very likely crossing jurisdictional boundaries, so beware what governments you might piss off.
Personally, I like that prosecutors in the US are ethically bound to understand why the suspect did what they did (their intentions/motivations) and that prosecutors have the duty to prosecute only cases that they can convince juries to convict on. More than that, prosecutors rarely have lots of spare cycles, so they have to plan+choose their prosecution resources judiciously.
And then civil liability is very different from criminal prosecution.
Then a civil claim could show damages, or there would be some amount of motivation for the state to go after them.
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/2023/02/15/ethical-hackers-can-...
Edit: Found it. They were patching exchange servers, around when 4 zero-day vulnerabilities were disclosed for Exchange
https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-fbi-removed-hacker-backdoo...
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-...
Ask me how I know.
When I briefly used my (since-returned) CRS-tier switch as a router, it kept getting popped within five minutes of me resetting it!
What roles are available in quickset depends on the device; routers/APs for SOHO segment do have sensible firewall rules there.
You used a switch with L3 capabilities. This isn't intended for firewall or NAT application (the performance would be abysmal), so it does not have similar rules by default.