> The prototype is Ukraine’s 21st-century answer to the V-1 flying bomb, or doodlebug, the long-range ballistic missile used by Nazi Germany during the second world war against targets in south-east England.
The V1 was not a ballistic missile - it was more like a cruise missile. The V2 was a ballistic missile.
No. V-1 and V-2 have very bad accuracy, because in 1940s does not exist better.
To be exact, standard deviation was about 500meters.
I can't remember details about V-1, but for V-2 I read too much to forget. V-2 have analog guidance, azimuth "programmed" just rotating start stand, active part of trajectory curve preprogrammed by programmatic drum (like in washing machine), and total impulse integrated by electrolyte accumulator (precharged before start).
And this is when V-1 costs comparable to prop fighter, and V-2 like strategic bomber.
Because of these flaws, even Germans don't use they really much, and US just forgot about them.
Even Soviets planned to use missiles mostly for air defense and as NUC carriers.
But approx in 1980s, with new technologies (mostly, digital computers, but also, high frequency radio and high precision frequency generators, for example atomic time), appear high accuracy navigation systems.
For example, claimed accuracy of Minuteman is about 10 meters, and Himars MLRS 1 meter.
As example of Himars MLRS usage, attacked bridge near Antonovka Ukraine, made few holes in road, so it become impossible to drive by truck, but pedestrians could pass it.
For about "trembita", I'm sure this is just propaganda, because cheapest military grade navigation cost about 10k$, and make 25kg explosive with civilian navigation is just crime.
Yes, I know, Iran make drones with 50kg explosives with civilian navigation, but they already got sanctions for this. I don't think, Ukrainian leaders will wait for sanctions if "trembita" will be produced in series, most probably, will just appear few new dudes, jailed "for nothing".
What are you advocating for? Would you ask the Ukrainian population to lay down their arms and suffer war crimes at the hands of the Russian army without resisting? What choice do they have? Speaking for myself as an American who lived in Ukraine for many years, I am glad the US are supporting Ukraine. I am not pro war in general, but the only paths to peace from where we are seen to be through war.
Ukraine isn't even close to "winning" anything. Diplomacy has been fragrantly ignored by the west and ukraine. I dislike russia and yes Putin IS a thug, however there is no metric that indicates ukraine is winning or that a hot war with all of nato would do anything. Again I dislike russia, when I was visiting a friend in russia I was detained and harassed by their border authorities and found the people incredibly rude. That said, they are still entitled to sovereignty.
It's also painfully ironic, that in early 2022 we accused russia of "war crimes" for using cluster munitions and this week just signed over hundreds of cluster munitions to ukraine...
Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions. At the very least Zelensky should be replaced with someone who's willing to negotiate. It's sad, however continuing to "fight" will just erase any and all genetic lineage in ukraine. We've also already failed when it comes to "weakening russia" because the west already ran out of artillery ammunition.
I don't understand why the only path out of this to you is continued war. Knowing the history of Georgia what happened in Ukraine is not surprising. If anything, this is a failure of American and Western geopolitics.
Currently things are stalled. But the overall trajectory is that they utterly destroyed Russia's initial attempt at immediate conquest (of at least Kyiv, Kharkhiv, Odesa). And have retaken about 50 percent of the territory that Russia initially occupied, and have imposed disproportionate losses on the aggressor in basically every category.
Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions.
Currently this idea has essentially zero support in Ukraine (outside perhaps those regions).
Do you think the Ukrainians are not capable of evaluating both the cost of the fighting so far (and the cost of the alternative) -- and making a decision about these matters on their own?
Very generous of you to give them Donbas and Crimea. How about Transnistria? Maybe Riga? Where is your line in the sand where Russia shall not cross? And wherever that is - why not have that line along the 1991 borders of Ukraine?
> Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions.
This vaguely reminds me of the appeasement of WW2. Why should Ukraine give up territories instead of Russia when pursuing for peace? Ukraine didn't invade Russia.
> It's also painfully ironic, that in early 2022 we accused russia of "war crimes" for using cluster munitions and this week just signed over hundreds of cluster munitions to ukraine...
Is Ukraine planning on using those munitions on Russian civilians? It's not like the US has a moral ground on war crimes but giving munitions to an ally is not the same thing as a war crime.
> If anything, this is a failure of American and Western geopolitics.
Yes, let's blame the US and western allies when Russia is conducting "special operations" in Ukraine. Why do you think Finland and Sweden joined and planned to join NATO, respectively when historically their populace was against joining NATO? Ukraine too, I might add.
You can be as anti-war as you like until your neighbor invades your country. Then you have a choice: capitulate or fight. For allies of Ukraine and proponents of future peace, you can’t allow a precedent of invasion without meaningful consequence. The cost needs to be high for the aggressor so that future would-be aggressors think twice.
Such nonsense information bubbles made for Russian propaganda, to render Ukrainians as bloody terrorists, who made low tech weapons, which will be dangerous only against civilians, but nothing significant for military.
This is nonsense. I talked with "inventors", they do not understand, how this weapon dangerous for civilians and how fast they will got sentenced to jail for crime.
If something very bad done by Iranian or Russian terrorists, this is not meaning, same done by Ukrainians will be tolerated by US or EU.
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[ 0.24 ms ] story [ 67.9 ms ] threadhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trembita
The V1 was not a ballistic missile - it was more like a cruise missile. The V2 was a ballistic missile.
And unfortunately, it is not much threat for Russian military.
Iran/Russia use so low tech, just because they already under sanctions, and for them additional sanctions will be negligible.
Ukraine totally different case, even brake NATO/EU integration, will kill many Ukrainians, but sanctions will kill Ukraine.
My doubt is: Is this new missile guided? (I guess so, but it's strange that the article compare it to a V1.)
And this is when V-1 costs comparable to prop fighter, and V-2 like strategic bomber.
Because of these flaws, even Germans don't use they really much, and US just forgot about them.
Even Soviets planned to use missiles mostly for air defense and as NUC carriers.
But approx in 1980s, with new technologies (mostly, digital computers, but also, high frequency radio and high precision frequency generators, for example atomic time), appear high accuracy navigation systems. For example, claimed accuracy of Minuteman is about 10 meters, and Himars MLRS 1 meter.
As example of Himars MLRS usage, attacked bridge near Antonovka Ukraine, made few holes in road, so it become impossible to drive by truck, but pedestrians could pass it.
For about "trembita", I'm sure this is just propaganda, because cheapest military grade navigation cost about 10k$, and make 25kg explosive with civilian navigation is just crime.
Yes, I know, Iran make drones with 50kg explosives with civilian navigation, but they already got sanctions for this. I don't think, Ukrainian leaders will wait for sanctions if "trembita" will be produced in series, most probably, will just appear few new dudes, jailed "for nothing".
It's also painfully ironic, that in early 2022 we accused russia of "war crimes" for using cluster munitions and this week just signed over hundreds of cluster munitions to ukraine...
Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions. At the very least Zelensky should be replaced with someone who's willing to negotiate. It's sad, however continuing to "fight" will just erase any and all genetic lineage in ukraine. We've also already failed when it comes to "weakening russia" because the west already ran out of artillery ammunition.
I don't understand why the only path out of this to you is continued war. Knowing the history of Georgia what happened in Ukraine is not surprising. If anything, this is a failure of American and Western geopolitics.
This one especially explains my position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJ4JIoGnzc
Currently things are stalled. But the overall trajectory is that they utterly destroyed Russia's initial attempt at immediate conquest (of at least Kyiv, Kharkhiv, Odesa). And have retaken about 50 percent of the territory that Russia initially occupied, and have imposed disproportionate losses on the aggressor in basically every category.
Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions.
Currently this idea has essentially zero support in Ukraine (outside perhaps those regions).
Do you think the Ukrainians are not capable of evaluating both the cost of the fighting so far (and the cost of the alternative) -- and making a decision about these matters on their own?
Why do you feel you need to decide for them?
This vaguely reminds me of the appeasement of WW2. Why should Ukraine give up territories instead of Russia when pursuing for peace? Ukraine didn't invade Russia.
> It's also painfully ironic, that in early 2022 we accused russia of "war crimes" for using cluster munitions and this week just signed over hundreds of cluster munitions to ukraine...
Is Ukraine planning on using those munitions on Russian civilians? It's not like the US has a moral ground on war crimes but giving munitions to an ally is not the same thing as a war crime.
> If anything, this is a failure of American and Western geopolitics.
Yes, let's blame the US and western allies when Russia is conducting "special operations" in Ukraine. Why do you think Finland and Sweden joined and planned to join NATO, respectively when historically their populace was against joining NATO? Ukraine too, I might add.
This numbers dont seem like they exist in reality.
> Bloodshed needs to end
I agree! Russia must leave Ukraines 1991 borders and never come back, im sure you agree with me as you are anti-war.
> Sad day to see HN is now solidly pro war.
I think its less pro war and more defending yourself from a regime that seems to want to wipe your existence off the map.
Capitulating to Hitler didn't help and capitulating to Putin won't help.
If something very bad done by Iranian or Russian terrorists, this is not meaning, same done by Ukrainians will be tolerated by US or EU.