Ask HN: Where to go after giving up on big growth-obsessed tech companies?
My name's Brandon, 27, USA, been in the tech biz since graduating college (so 5 years now).
Last month, I quit my job. Big public tech company, great compensation and benefits and snacks and all that, but realized it was really not my bag by my third year there. The set of individual incentives at any company so large can lead to irresponsible or nonsensical roadmaps, taken-advantage-of coworkers, etc -- by the end I was left frustrated and sad most days. I'm happy to say I'm taking a few months off now.
But, I love making software and want to get back into it soon! So the next question is, "if not that, then what"?
The short version is, I want to work somewhere I can feel good about. Somewhere every worker is treated with respect, and we actively cull sprouts of "political" or egotistical behavior -- a place that prioritizes transparency, trust, and psychological safety over revenue growth. For me (and hopefully some others), that's the catalyst for feeling motivated and responsible to deliver excellent work.
(and please no cynical comments like "good luck finding a business that puts culture over money, i.e. its own reason for existing" -- yes, I know what I'm looking for is not the norm, that's why I wanted to try casting a wide net here on HN, thank you!)
So, I figure this immediately rules out public companies. Them having the constant pressure (a legal obligation?) to put shareholder interest above everything else. Besides -- it seems hard to get such a large group of people with similar-enough values all working towards the same goal anyways.
I think it actually also rules out most startups. They take VC money, and are then beholden to those VCs just like a public company is beholden to shareholders -- growth at any cost. Bootstrapped startups could be OK, but those are pretty rare.
Maybe worker-owned tech companies would be a solution? But those are even more rare than bootstrapped ones as I understand it, at least in the US?
Anyways -- as you can see my ideas are pretty scattered when it comes to "where can I find what I'm looking for"! If anyone here has had similar thoughts, or wanted something like this and did something about it, I'd love to hear about your experiences :)
Thanks!
15 comments
[ 2.1 ms ] story [ 49.5 ms ] threadThank you for the idea!
1. Start your own company - the hardest and most stressful option by miles, but most potentially rewarding.
2. Work for a startup - smaller team, greater impact, less "politics" but a greater risk of being a complete shitshow
3. Public tech company - What you did, didn't like it, most of these companies seem to be about the same now, what matters is the local management and product area's importance to the company
4. Public nontech company - The worst, tech is either seen as cost center and burden, or it's the CEO's pet project that no one understands and you're basically being paid to be a magician because the CEO read something in Harvard business review that your specialization is the future of their industry or something.
I think you should go for 2 personally, but if you have a business idea that you believe in, 1 is the best. In both cases you may realize that 3 is actually the best option for you, but not today.
Good luck!
I've worked for every type of employer: public companies, government contracts, and all size of private company. Mid-size private companies (between 100 and 10,000 people) seems to be the sweet spot in terms of culture.
Interestingly, I think my most recent company fits into that range, they're about 5,000 now I believe. Though only about 1,000 when I joined; even in such a short time the change in culture was pretty hard to miss. And 10,000 just sounds massive to me!
Anyways -- it's interesting, there may be companies in that range with cultures that are good TODAY, but you have to have really solid leadership that you can trust to make sure nothing perverse sneaks in TOMORROW, you know? Definitely they are out there, it's just finding them that's the hard part, perhaps
(part of me wishes I could help in that crusade, but at that point I'm either joining a 10-person business or starting my own thing I guess, lol)
The smallest company I worked at was 7 people and the largest was 80,000. I like a certain level of professionalism (distance from personal life) in my work, so startups aren't really for me. Past 10,000 people, there's so many layers of red tape and formality that you can't do anything useful.
> Anyways -- it's interesting, there may be companies in that range with cultures that are good TODAY, but you have to have really solid leadership that you can trust to make sure nothing perverse sneaks in TOMORROW, you know? Definitely they are out there, it's just finding them that's the hard part, perhaps
Everything is always changing year by year. You'd be surprised how much can change on a team in three months after a simple change of senior manager.
In my experience, smaller, profitable companies like this have more of what you're looking for. Often times, they only have a few full-time staff other than the founder, so they tend to fly under the radar.
> so they tend to fly under the radar
Though, I wonder how to work with this -- there's probably no central place to find these kinds of businesses :P still, I will look into it for sure, thanks for the comment!
At some level though, you need management to be focused enough on revenue to keep the lights on, and make sure you are getting raises and career progression. (I do think like many posters have mentioned, there are teams within bigger companies that are values driven with good management that shields ICs from the bigger org challenges -- until they don't)
The incentives do change when outside money is involved.
A few ideas:
- Companies that serve values driven industries (gov, nonprofits, medical)
- B-corps
- Bootstrapped Companies
- Higher Education / Research Labs
Some examples:
- https://www.olark.com/values (company I founded - which fits your target, but isn't currently hiring)
- https://www.bcorporation.net/en-us/find-a-b-corp/
- https://smallgiants.org/
- https://www.usworker.coop/directory/
My guess is smaller companies in general will have less politics and more autonomy.
If I were in your shoes I'd take a look at:
- https://buffer.com/journey (founder retained enough control to drive culture)
- https://automattic.com/work-with-us/ (I've always admired wordpress and the team behind it, they've been customers multiple times and they've been a joy to work with)
- https://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_mit/externa... (I am a former academic, the pay isn't great, but lots of cool problems to work on, search for "media lab", teams are small enough politics is likely less of an issue)
fun problem to solve, I am curious where you'll land.
I fell in love with programming again. I really get to express myself with code instead of using it as a small cog in a big machine.