Very nice... The EU saving the world again... First with micro USB... Then USB-C and now with replaceable batteries... I think companies could do it before 2027 though
More materials will be used. People will change batteries that don’t need to be changed, and will buy and carry more batteries than they need. There will be a massive inventory of batteries in the supply chain, many of which will simply age out of their shelf life before ever being useful.
The chances of this being a net gain for the environment are basically zero, but the waste will make money for a bunch of people.
> The chances of this being a net gain for the environment are basically zero, but the waste will make money for a bunch of people.
You mean as opposed to now with locked down serialized batteries requiring special tools to replace? I'm sorry I just cannot understand your point at all.
As opposed to unnessary batteries unable to be reused? Or even the hardware of the devices themselves having a far higher chance of being thrown out in favor of the consumer 'just buying a new one,' as battery replacement costs get more and more prohibitively expensive.
Why exactly would people change batteries that don't need to be changed? Phones do have battery health indicators, and buying one costs money. There's no logical reason to change one, until they have degraded significantly. The only difference is that now you can change it more easily yourself, rather than having someone else do it for money, which they will happily do regardless of battery health.
When combined with requirement for longer support with updates, this change in legislation will help creating a healthy second-hand market for more devices. Cheap, non-serviceable Android phones that get updates and are used only for a year or two are the real source of waste, we need a proper second-hand marker for those similar to expensive Apple devices.
There were in past samsungs with easy replaceable batteries AND waterproof. The neat part is, with current legislation it could be done better bc it doesn't require hot swapability unlike oledr samsung models. It's not difficult, it's just not in their priorities
I guess Apple could argue the current iPhone 14 design [1] ( Not iPhone 14 Pro Series ) are already "removable and replaceable by the end-user,". And if not it could be (in their views) quite close to that definition.
[1] iPhone 14 earns a 7/10 score on iFixit thanks to new back assembly
Which honestly in my opinion is fair and I’d be happy with that as long as apple didn’t used proprietary screws and didn’t lock down phones which have user replaced parts in software.
The iFixit score is primarily about it being replaceable at all, without requiring you to damage other components for example.
A core part of the EU law is that the repair should not require detailed technical expertise or uncommon tools. The current iPhone 13 design is not even remotely close to that. It requires a pentalobe screwdriver, a y000 screwdriver, picks which can only be inserted 3mm, a special clamp, a hairdryer to melt glue, and finally isopropyl alcohol.
The iFixit guide consists of 30 steps, with several warnings about accidentally causing significant damage. That is quite a bit beyond the intended "open battery cover using philips screwdriver" type of repair.
Are there any other design which offer similar if not better water proof spec while offering easy battery replacement? What I am saying is that many ( not all but many ) of those steps are because of water proofing the phone.
That's just more rehashed propaganda from the Apple camp. They said the same thing about removing the 3.5mm headphone jack, until the excuse quietly switched to "it's about more battery space".
Apparently a similar hole into the enclosure for the Lightning port was impervious to water in ways other holes weren't. The RDF kept the water out.
I've owned multiple waterproof phones with a simple o-ring gasket around the battery door. Low-tech I know.
Removability and replaceability of portable batteries and LMT batteries
1. Any natural or legal person that places on the market products incorporating portable batteries shall ensure that those batteries are readily removable and replaceable by the end-user at any time during the lifetime of the product. That obligation shall only apply to entire batteries and not to individual cells or other parts included in such batteries.
A portable battery shall be considered readily removable by the end-user where it can be removed from a product with the use of commercially available tools, without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless provided free of charge with the product, proprietary tools, thermal energy, or solvents to disassemble the product.
Any natural or legal person that places on the market products incorporating portable batteries shall ensure that those products are accompanied with instructions and safety information on the use, removal and replacement of the batteries. Those instructions and that safety information shall be made available permanently online, on a publicly available website, in an easily understandable way for end-users.
> "Any natural or legal person that places on the market products incorporating portable batteries shall ensure that those batteries are readily removable and replaceable by the end-user at any time during the lifetime of the product. That obligation shall only apply to entire batteries and not to individual cells or other parts included in such batteries."
If printers ink cartridges taught us anything, I'm prepared for chipped spare phone batteries costing as much as 1/2 of the phone.
> 7. Any natural or legal person that places on the market products incorporating portable batteries or LMT batteries shall ensure that those batteries are available as spare parts of the equipment that they power for a minimum of five years after placing the last unit of the equipment model on the market, with a reasonable and non-discriminatory price for independent professionals and end-users.
> 8. Software shall not be used to impede the replacement of a portable battery or LMT battery, or of their key components, with another compatible battery or key components.
Really? Assuming you think this is a bad thing because phones with replceable batteries are bulkier and less durable, we're still affected by this outside the EU, we just didn't have any say in the matter.
I mean, it’s not happened yet… I’m assuming there’s a non-zero chance that the removable-battery (inferior) versions might be contained to the EU and the rest of us get access to models with non-removable (higher capacity) batteries.
Maybe its just me, but I'd happily trade raw single battery capacity for the ability to swap in new batteries at will.
Not only does it make battery replacements easier, you don't need to carry bulky power banks around as all you need is 1-2 spare batteries to swap into your phone and instantly be at 100% again.
Because its simply not as profitable as the alternative. Same reason why companies continue pushing subscription services despite the average consumer being sick of paying monthly for services(0).
Galaxy s5 proving waterproof phones with replaceable batteries don't need to bulkier aside, perhaps they might engineer phones to be a bit thicker but more durable so they don't need a gaudy case on them to protect them, so net they will actually be thinner.
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[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 107 ms ] threadThe chances of this being a net gain for the environment are basically zero, but the waste will make money for a bunch of people.
You mean as opposed to now with locked down serialized batteries requiring special tools to replace? I'm sorry I just cannot understand your point at all.
Unnecessary batteries being sold = people profiting from waste.
When combined with requirement for longer support with updates, this change in legislation will help creating a healthy second-hand market for more devices. Cheap, non-serviceable Android phones that get updates and are used only for a year or two are the real source of waste, we need a proper second-hand marker for those similar to expensive Apple devices.
You can't seriously be saying you don't understand why people buy things they don't need.
It's already been done countless times.
seriously, splash resistant is more than enough for almost everyone...
[1] iPhone 14 earns a 7/10 score on iFixit thanks to new back assembly
https://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_14_earns_a_7_10_score_on_ifi...
A core part of the EU law is that the repair should not require detailed technical expertise or uncommon tools. The current iPhone 13 design is not even remotely close to that. It requires a pentalobe screwdriver, a y000 screwdriver, picks which can only be inserted 3mm, a special clamp, a hairdryer to melt glue, and finally isopropyl alcohol.
The iFixit guide consists of 30 steps, with several warnings about accidentally causing significant damage. That is quite a bit beyond the intended "open battery cover using philips screwdriver" type of repair.
If the back was screwed on vs clipped on (allowed with new laws), it could have easily been ip68 rated.
Apparently a similar hole into the enclosure for the Lightning port was impervious to water in ways other holes weren't. The RDF kept the water out.
I've owned multiple waterproof phones with a simple o-ring gasket around the battery door. Low-tech I know.
The text of the regulation: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=consil%3... — some bookmarks:
• skip to page 90 of the English version if you aren't interested in the recitals
• skip to page 107 if you aren't interested in the definitions
• skip to page 127 if you want to know about the removability/replaceability part specifically
Article 11
Removability and replaceability of portable batteries and LMT batteries
1. Any natural or legal person that places on the market products incorporating portable batteries shall ensure that those batteries are readily removable and replaceable by the end-user at any time during the lifetime of the product. That obligation shall only apply to entire batteries and not to individual cells or other parts included in such batteries.
A portable battery shall be considered readily removable by the end-user where it can be removed from a product with the use of commercially available tools, without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless provided free of charge with the product, proprietary tools, thermal energy, or solvents to disassemble the product.
Any natural or legal person that places on the market products incorporating portable batteries shall ensure that those products are accompanied with instructions and safety information on the use, removal and replacement of the batteries. Those instructions and that safety information shall be made available permanently online, on a publicly available website, in an easily understandable way for end-users.
If printers ink cartridges taught us anything, I'm prepared for chipped spare phone batteries costing as much as 1/2 of the phone.
> 7. Any natural or legal person that places on the market products incorporating portable batteries or LMT batteries shall ensure that those batteries are available as spare parts of the equipment that they power for a minimum of five years after placing the last unit of the equipment model on the market, with a reasonable and non-discriminatory price for independent professionals and end-users.
> 8. Software shall not be used to impede the replacement of a portable battery or LMT battery, or of their key components, with another compatible battery or key components.
Maybe its just me, but I'd happily trade raw single battery capacity for the ability to swap in new batteries at will.
Not only does it make battery replacements easier, you don't need to carry bulky power banks around as all you need is 1-2 spare batteries to swap into your phone and instantly be at 100% again.
[0] https://www.thedrum.com/news/2022/11/16/us-subscription-fati...
It does not. It stipulates that a battery must be replaceable without proprietary tools, and without the use of glue or similar adhesives.
A common head screw will be fine, it does not have to be cold-swappable[1].
[1] Is that a term? Hot-swappable would imply the device is powered on.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36712894