You know what I love? Identifying plants, looking things up and reading ebooks. I don’t take many pictures, but I appreciate having them as a way to situate an experience in time. I am fine with this way of using technology in nature.
Let me enjoy nature how I damn please. My experience is valid too. You do you, I do me.
> For those apprehensive about giving up their devices, the “digital fasting” is entirely voluntary – the island has a fully functioning mobile network.
Right? We're so sorry that you can't stand the thought of other people not being on their phones in order to find out what plant they are looking at, but there really is a very simple solution. Don't go there, and don't be one of those people looking at those plants.
You write as if I'm foaming at the mouth typing this. I'm using the comments section to comment about something. I think it's dumb and I won't think about it ever again.
In any case it's not actually phone-free, just a publicity stunt.
The way that I phrased my comment was a little rude. I apologize. I was meaning to agree with the parent poster, but in doing so I was uncharitable with my interpretation of your comment. I shouldn't have taken such a dismissive attitude, that doesn't really help anything.
They put a sticker on people's devices and ask them top pretty please not use them. Anyone can still go there and use their phones as much as they like. It's another social advertising campaign by 'Parks and Wildlife Finland', intended to be spread around internet forums and social media. Doesn't cost them anything, it's a clever idea. And some food for thought, you'd never know about it if you weren't online, nor would you ever have heard of this random island. Of which Finland has hundreds of similar ones.
The converse is also true: If someone likes to be without phone, couldn't they go literally anywhere on the planet, and just choose to leave their phone at home without that place they're going to officially encouraging them to do so?
Or is it about the disturbance caused by other people using their phones? ...or maybe to have a plausible story to tell the people who tried to reach you? ("Sorry you couldn't reach me at the weekend, boss, I was at this island in Finland where ...").
The nice thing about places that were supposedly ruined by Instagram is that most of them were already overcrowded and boring anyway.
As an Australian it's hilarious to talk to tourists and hear they're going to get a bus from Melbourne to the 12 Apostles and back, which is an 8 hour round trip, but aren't planning to spend time at the rest of the spectacularly beautiful coastline or national parks in between. The most popular tourist destinations all seem to be like that: you go there to cross them off the list even though comparably beautiful and much less popular attractions are nearby, for the sake of going somewhere recognisable.
There's nothing wrong with going to a few well known spots in a holiday, but if you just go straight from tourist trap to tourist trap you'll miss all the most enjoyable things.
>... a lot of the problems we have in the West is ... obvious that smartphones are terrible for people especially when they are trying to relax in nature.
Over here in the Far East, everyone has a phone with them, whether they're in the city or up in the mountains enjoying nature. If you get attacked by a bear or have some other emergency, not having a phone means you'll probably die, so not carrying one is a good way to get a Darwin Award.
So weird when people try to blame things on "the West".
Are there really that many bears in the cities of the Far East? Shouldn't you do something about them instead of waiting for those panicked phone calls?
It's like that time my mom bought a VIP ticket to a Drake show so she could talk to him afterwards and tell him to his face that she doesn't much care for rap music. (this anecdote is a complete fabrication but I had fun writing it)
(your mom) "Drake! I don't appreciate your music."
(Drake) "Oh, I'm... sorry."
(your mom, nodding emphatically) "I came here to give you a piece of my mind. I paid $740 to get me and my children in here so I can say this to your face."
(Drake, nodding) "Madam, please... it is your right."
(your mom) "Well I didn't like it! I don't like any of your music!"
(Drake, nodding again) "Ma'am, I'm not sure I like it either. I'm just selling records here."
The point of a comment system is to discuss the content of an article. This is what I did. The likelihood of me going there either way is pretty small.
When you make belittling comments like you just did, it really takes away from your point. It wasn't necessary to lower the conversation into name calling (i.e. rebellious-teen juvenile). You could have made your point without lashing out.
I imagine some people worry how they would deal with getting lost or being injured. It’s a fair point because so much now assumes you will have a smartphone with you at all times.
That’s why it’s nice having somewhere that doesn’t assume that.
Dumb mobile phones still have SMS, so 2FA still works and since it is a telephone, talking to friends and family is also possible.
I suspect the reasons the OP gave up on the smart phone was to get away from all of those phone apps.
While SMS-based 2FA may be worse than the alternatives, it is clear that the previous commenter has decided that having a smartphone is much worse than the alternatives.
Unless their financial institution offers a non-smartphone 2FA option, such as a PIN-based card reader[0], having to use SMS-based 2FA is a reasonable price to pay.
For wire transfer there are still alternatives although becoming more and more difficult unfortunately. Other things one can still do without a smartphone, and the benefits outweigh the cons (for me at least).
How about you just put your phone on silent, and leave it in backpack? I need phone for maps, accommodation booking etc.. But on hike battery lasts a week, because it is in airplane mode.
Because I lack willpower. For those with strong willpower, I know I sound like a lily-livered idiot, but it's easier for me to impose controls I can't easily escape.
An important point for me was realizing that free will is an illusion and that conditioning myself to respond correctly is more effective than trying to be rational and have self control. Impulse will act before thought has even got a clue, so the impulse must be trained, not the mind.
Human nature is complex. Not everyone is as able to just put their phone on silent and leave it as you are. We've all got different levels of "noise" in our heads, telling us to do things, and it's not always trivial to turn off that noise.
Think of it this way: you can wear a silly hat anywhere you want. What effect would it have on silly hat population if you explicitly invited people to wear silly hats on your island?
I'm not so sure about something unusual becoming an empty fad. Medieval fairs are enclaves of the different, and yet you don't see every event turning into a medieval fair to dilute the idea.
A designated place matters for the experience: you can expect that the door frames and ceilings will be adjusted to accommodate your hats (i.e. no one will require a phone from you to do basic things).
You may also expect other people to already be in the same mental space as you, or learning to see the world from a new perspective at the same time as you are.
Yes, for the most part if other people around you are doing something, you'll be more tempted to do the same thing.
There are exceptions to this (and you might be one of them), but I know that I'd feel awkward using a phone on a phone-free island.
That's not how human nature works. The fact that the island is set up to be 'mobile free' means there'll be a strong stigma about using your phone there. Everyone will stare, some people will give disapproving tuts, and I wouldn't be surprised if some even ask you to put the phone away. If you're really unfortunate people who feel very strongly will be quite angry about it.
You need a strong personality to ignore 'society' when practically everyone wants you to stop doing something. Social pressure is very powerful.
The island will not just be a few signs you can easily ignore. Using your phone there will be considered antisocial behavior.
Half the benefit is that everyone puts their phone away. No other screens, selfies, browsing at restaurants or calls interrupting people. Everyone simply being present with the humans and nature around them.
What I'd love to see is a drone free island. It feels invasive to have a drone hover over you at the beach and not even know who is filming, not to mention the annoying noise. When you look at a peaceful valley and drones are flying all over, it just kills the vibe.
I wish I could disable drones with some kind of device so it would fall down and its owner would have to at least look me in the eyes to get it back.
i had a wifi jammer i bought from some chinese site killed everything in a sphere around you, fairly sure it would disconnect drones aswell, we had some fun times with that :)
In all European countries I've looked the regulations of (Portugal and France), it's illegal to run drones without prior permission from the relevant authorities (in Portugal if it's near the coast, you need permission from the coast guard too), over people, and over protected places (which in France it's most of it).
This is great!! In Germany there is a map with the areas that are strictly forbidden (all private areas of villages and cities, residential areas, and I think all governments buildings and security at-risk facilities), those that require permission (certain city areas and parks), and those which no permission required (middle of the woods). Also the height matters, often only above 100 m is allowed — there is a whole ordnance about this which surely is constantly being updated.
My co purchased a drone and I had to test before shipping it abroad and I risked running for 1 minute in my garden area flying over 100 m. But then I found out that I could film our head office premises closer than 50 m height but not the streets around it. Finally I found that the parking place of the park could be filmed but not the park. All this was duly cataloged online with overlapping areas. In the end too much hassle.
When the drone was abroad (in South America) no trouble whatsoever…
89 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 138 ms ] threadYou know what I love? Identifying plants, looking things up and reading ebooks. I don’t take many pictures, but I appreciate having them as a way to situate an experience in time. I am fine with this way of using technology in nature.
Let me enjoy nature how I damn please. My experience is valid too. You do you, I do me.
http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
In any case it's not actually phone-free, just a publicity stunt.
Or is it about the disturbance caused by other people using their phones? ...or maybe to have a plausible story to tell the people who tried to reach you? ("Sorry you couldn't reach me at the weekend, boss, I was at this island in Finland where ...").
I think this is a lovely initiative and I think it would be great if it could cause a bit of a trend.
As an Australian it's hilarious to talk to tourists and hear they're going to get a bus from Melbourne to the 12 Apostles and back, which is an 8 hour round trip, but aren't planning to spend time at the rest of the spectacularly beautiful coastline or national parks in between. The most popular tourist destinations all seem to be like that: you go there to cross them off the list even though comparably beautiful and much less popular attractions are nearby, for the sake of going somewhere recognisable.
There's nothing wrong with going to a few well known spots in a holiday, but if you just go straight from tourist trap to tourist trap you'll miss all the most enjoyable things.
Caltopo has helped me not get lost on long loops where turning around isn’t an option.
Over here in the Far East, everyone has a phone with them, whether they're in the city or up in the mountains enjoying nature. If you get attacked by a bear or have some other emergency, not having a phone means you'll probably die, so not carrying one is a good way to get a Darwin Award.
So weird when people try to blame things on "the West".
Bears are common in the mountains. No, nothing needs to "be done" about those bears. Wear bear bells and be cautious.
Do they also use their device to block stairs or crosswalks? If their first reaction to this was "but I need it", then maybe.
(Drake) "Oh, I'm... sorry."
(your mom, nodding emphatically) "I came here to give you a piece of my mind. I paid $740 to get me and my children in here so I can say this to your face."
(Drake, nodding) "Madam, please... it is your right."
(your mom) "Well I didn't like it! I don't like any of your music!"
(Drake, nodding again) "Ma'am, I'm not sure I like it either. I'm just selling records here."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
That’s why it’s nice having somewhere that doesn’t assume that.
They are still selling paper maps.
I loved it.
The days passed more slowly, I wrote more freely, read more deeply, and spent more time being aware of what was around me.
I love it.
I have a dumb phone hardly anyone calls, so often I leave it at home.
Never need Google Maps? No whatsapp and messenger to talk to friends and family?
I'd love to be smartphone free but fail to see how I could do without those uses
Unless their financial institution offers a non-smartphone 2FA option, such as a PIN-based card reader[0], having to use SMS-based 2FA is a reasonable price to pay.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_Authentication_Program
I’m not sure what this is beyond saying “if you want, you can put your phone away!”
You always had that option everywhere. Are people more tempted to phone if they see other people on their phones? I never felt that.
But anyways, why does it matter? Will my silly hat experience not be as good if other people aren’t wearing one? I’m wearing for myself.
A designated place matters for the experience: you can expect that the door frames and ceilings will be adjusted to accommodate your hats (i.e. no one will require a phone from you to do basic things).
You may also expect other people to already be in the same mental space as you, or learning to see the world from a new perspective at the same time as you are.
You need a strong personality to ignore 'society' when practically everyone wants you to stop doing something. Social pressure is very powerful.
The island will not just be a few signs you can easily ignore. Using your phone there will be considered antisocial behavior.
> when practically everyone
Where did you get everyone? I assumed this is just a marketing campaign started by a few people.
I wish I could disable drones with some kind of device so it would fall down and its owner would have to at least look me in the eyes to get it back.
My co purchased a drone and I had to test before shipping it abroad and I risked running for 1 minute in my garden area flying over 100 m. But then I found out that I could film our head office premises closer than 50 m height but not the streets around it. Finally I found that the parking place of the park could be filmed but not the park. All this was duly cataloged online with overlapping areas. In the end too much hassle.
When the drone was abroad (in South America) no trouble whatsoever…