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Amazon is giving all of your personal information to courier companies

59 points by KyleSanderson ↗ HN
This one is wild. I ordered some medication from Amazon as I usually do. The medication gets dropped off this afternoon around 3PM. At around 7PM the driver from this morning (Intelcom) sends me a text, asking to give him a 5 star review. Amazon is giving complete customer profiles to third party courier companies and is denying it on the phone and in writing.

"Hi this is your Intelcom driverYour package was delivered today by me. If you liked my service please give me a 5 star rating in your emails from "Intelcom". It will mean a lot to me! Have a good one :)"

Finally, I've connected with a "supervisor", who is saying that drivers texting from personal lines after hours is totally normal, and that they're not permitted to use their cell phone while driving as it's a safety concern.

Anyway, I'm now more upset about it than I should be because I've wasted 2 hours already with Amazon on this.

50 comments

[ 4.6 ms ] story [ 122 ms ] thread
getwiththeprog
Theory:

The request for a rating is initiated by the supervisor/management of the company. By providing a review, the company has 'friended' you and built a relationship of personal trust. This all done to pretend they are not taking commercial advantage of you.

It is just a new form of manipulation. I would not fill in anything.

tlb
Can you explain what you mean by "all your personal information?" The evidence is only for them having a phone number and email in addition to your (obviously necessary) name and address.
KyleSanderson
The email makes sense, because that's the primary means of communication for your amazon profile. The phone number is no where to be found, and was clearly given.
graftak
Our local big online retailer proxies emails sent to customers by third party vendors on their market place. There’s absolutely no need to share your email address.

In those mails there usually is an incentive in the form of a review/discount to persuade you to share info though, but that’s easily ignored.

badrabbit
In case they can't get in your gate or can't find your apartment, they need to call you. This is a commom practice in any home servicing industry to ask customers to rate them. The contractor is likely just doing this to stay on amazon's payroll.
carstenhag
Amazon merchants can't get the email, it always goes through an "email proxy" aka an email that amazon provides to them, in your name
OJFord
They often try to get you out of it though, e.g. will reply with nothing but an attachment which is an image of their typed non-proxied email address they want you to use. (I guess Amazon filters it or tells them off if it's typed in the body of the email.)
KerrAvon
serious question: how can you trust Amazon to provide non-tainted medication?

they sell used razors as new. they sell counterfeit devices. they sell used pet drinking fountains as new.

graftak
Medication is often sealed with brand specific seals and sometimes comes with instructions what it should look like or otherwise be returned.
KeplerBoy
Not surprised by this. I occasionally get calls from Amazon drivers asking where i am if I don't open the door. For some reason it never occurs to them that I'm simply not at home.

Then again when you order stuff on AliExpress, they might just print your phone number on the parcel.

popcalc
Are you sure the call is coming from their work phone? Typically with food delivery contractors the driver's app has a VoIP button that acts as a bridge, so they don't actually see your number. Also important because the person ordering might have an international number with high inbound rates, so it would be a hassle dealing with billing that you would rather have Amazon/Doordash/Foodora handle with their gateway.
miked85
Yeah, I've had this happen a few times and the call is from a Seattle area code.
beeburrt
I don't know why people are so gung-ho to give their hard-earned money to mega-corps.
nightfly
1. Only option 2. Only option they can afford 3. Cheapest option 4. They really don't care
veave
I hate megacorps but I hate local businesses even more.
bombcar
People seem to never understand this - megacorps have a certain generic level of shittiness, but small local businesses can be absolutely amazing or insanely shitty.
jeffwass
Amazon’s not unique here.

I once rented a car and after returning it the guy who inspected the car was very excited to tell me there was no damage so I get my full deposit back, and I should be thanking him.

But was no damage at all, so it’s not like he did me any favor by covering something up.

He called my mobile that night asking me to give him a review. I reluctantly said I would take a look when I get home.

He called me the next day and told me he hadn’t seen my review yet and asked for it again.

I was seriously annoyed, and considered leaving him a negative review for being so intrusive, but I was hesitant, not knowing what other personal information he has of mine.

This was just a regular business transaction, it’s not like he went over and above with customer service, or did anything exceptional.

I wound up leaving no review, and would consider never renting from this company again.

dazc
I worked with a guy like this, he would always ask clients to phone his boss to say what a good job he had done. It worked well for him because sometimes bosses are that gullible.
Ekaros
It is not unreasonable for driver to get phone number.

However this bullshit of leaving reviews on everything is... Why should I even need to review a delivery? Maybe we should be able to give 1 star to CEOs and boards of these companies asking for reviews. And maybe their compensation should be affected. Let's say not getting perfect 5 star rating would mean no extra compensation this year.

willcipriano
Reviews are like self checkout but for people management. Outsource the annual review to customers in aggregate.
gruez
What's the non self checkout version then? Staking out the delivery drivers a few times a year to see how they do? That seems like a massive hassle.
willcipriano
Fine, take that at face value, but if the costumers are managing employee performance and attendance is managed by the time clock, what are the line managers managing?
gruez
>what are the line managers managing?

I don't know how the org structure is like at the DSPs that Amazon contracts with, but do they even have "line managers" in any meaningful sense? Given that DSPs are basically small businesses, I find it unlikely that the owner will needlessly add "line managers" that don't do anything. If anything, the "line manager" is probably the owner, who has a bunch of clerical/admin tasks in addition to being "manager".

willcipriano
This review thing is happening all over the place. Have management levels dropped noticably? Put another way: Are customers reaping lower prices due to this labor now being asked of them?
carstenhag
Because some deliverers don't put the parcel where you wanted to. Because some don't ring. Because some are rude. Many things can happen.
figassis
So you give a 5 star review when someone does their job? I always assumed such reviews should be reserved for those who go above and beyond. For your job it should be enough not to get complaints. At most a yearly or quarterly “satisfactory” should suffice. But now we’re offloading the responsibility of promoting everyone on customers. Every single service or product you buy requires a review and/or a tip.
Spooky23
I’m sure tipping will be next.
thunky
> So you give a 5 star review when someone does their job? I always assumed such reviews should be reserved for those who go above and beyond

But why should they have to go above and beyond to get full marks?

If they put the undamaged package in the expected place at the expected time then what more do you expect, a song and dance?

gusthecat
Your review isn't some reward you are bestowing upon the person. It's for management to evaluate their performance. So yes 5 star review for when someone does their job. Its a customer survey not a fucking critique. So yes when someone does their job its 5 stars because you shouldn't expect anything else
SoullessSilent
A 3 star review for when they do their job. 5 if its above and beyond such as if there were complications of difficult delivery.
thunky
So if they don't face adversity when deliverying your package it's just not good enough? That's crazy.

Maybe give them a break, they're working hard.

olyjohn
That makes no sense. If there are complications and the delivery is delayed, then they get 5 stars for getting it to you? How do you know what complications or difficulties they ran into? All you're gonna see is delayed package, and by your scale that's less than 3 stars.
Ekaros
Review and feedback are different things. Sure offer a feedback channel. But asking a review for regular things seems just useless.
WeylandYutani
I personally hate how every company wants my feedback. Do people really waste their time leaving reviews for everything they do?

I am getting dozens and dozens of emails begging for my opinion.

Ekaros
Kinda reminds me when the car dealership wanted feedback on my reservation of maintenance... Not yet actual maintenance, but the reservation process. FU Delta Auto...
bredren
Unless something has changed, customer data leaks to any merchant selling through Amazon.

You can fulfill an existing SKU via Prime and get full name and shipping detail on anyone who buys.

This means anyone selling on Amazon can ~buy personal data of people who want a particular product by setting the lowest price among sellers, clearing your inventory first.

At least this was what I observed selling an ebike part I designed (new sku) and competing to sell bafang ebike motor brake sensors.

nottorp
From this country, the weirdest thing is leaving packages unattended on the porch. How do you do that in an apartment building anyway?

All couriers have my phone number here because the delivery only goes into my hands.

There is no review system though, so there's no incentive for them to talk to me after delivery.

jackvalentine
Courier threw my engagement ring delivery in to the bushes outside my apartment building. Got the text it was ‘delivered’ while I was at work and panic rushed home!

At least he had no idea what was in it I guess.

unmole
In my country, virtually every package sent by courier has the phone number of the recipient on the label. Is that not the case in the rest of the world?
carstenhag
I have noticed that for all couriers in Spain (and we did get called many times because they couldn't find our place), but in Germany it's very uncommon.
Symbiote
It's very common in Denmark, and it makes it easy for the courier company to leave the package at a kiosk or parcel locker instead of trying to deliver several times.

I was called several times for packages sent to work when the office was closed to non-essential staff, as there was no receptionist and it wasn't clear the building was open. (Business parcels are generally not redirected to a kiosk.)

I can't remember being called for personal deliveries. It's more common to just get an automatic text saying which nearby kiosk/locker has the parcel, with a code to claim it.

bombcar
The building not open problem is annoying. UPS seems to understand it but lots of the courier companies are still learning. I’ve had to paste a large sign to the door saying “I’m here please call X and don’t return as undeliverable”.
devoutsalsa
I’ve been to 41 countries, and I’ve learned the USA’s precise address locations is more the exception than the rule. I expect the courier to have my number out of necessity. I’ve had packages shipped to several countries, and often the most precise address I can provide is “the blue door right of the cheese shop on $STREET”. Dubai is interesting in that it has fairly good addresses, but uses nearby landmarks instead of postal codes. “123 Sheikh Abdul St, Dubai, next to the Desert Cinema”.
bombcar
Even in the USA, once you step outside the cities and the rural areas with regular streets, a phone number is often a good idea, especially if they haven’t delivered before.

Homes a mile down a driveway, various gates, etc. Things can happen.

But Amazon could do what Craigslist does for email -have a bank of a bunch of phone numbers that they forward to you until delivery is confirmed.

PaulWaldman
You'll also find that both FedEx and UPS will put your phone number right on the shipping label.
bombcar
That’s up to the shipper, the fedex and ups software is pretty configurable.

You can also enter information for UPS etc that are visible to them by scanning the tracking but not on the label.

pfp
"all your personal information" != contact details != phone number

but enjoy your meds, anyway