Show HN: Learn a language quickly by practising speaking with AI (prettypolly.app)
Hope everyone is well. This app was borne out of my own frustration. I thought that I was terrible at learning languages at school, since I didn't become conversational in French after 5 years of study. However, I later traveled with some French friends and, in just under 3 weeks, I was able to hold a reasonable conversation. I realized that there's no substitute for speaking to native speakers.
I tried to adopt this approach for other languages, but it's much harder to find people to practise with when you aren't travelling. I started using iTalki to meet people from different countries and chat to them. It quickly became very expensive and time-consuming to schedule the calls, so I gave up.
I made PrettyPolly so that anyone can easily practice speaking 26 languages orally. The app uses ChatGPT (amongst other tools) to allow you to practice speaking whenever you want. It also generates a fluency score for each conversation so that you have an objective way of tracking progress.
It's free to use (up to 15 conversations per month). I've found that using it once or twice per day is plenty, and you'll be amazed at how much you will pick up in a week. I've added some FAQs here in case useful - https://www.prettypolly.app/learn
Would really appreciate any feedback. Let me know if you have any questions, issues or suggestions.
Thanks, Chris
257 comments
[ 2.3 ms ] story [ 384 ms ] threadThen you can chose to push it to github or similar, but please prepare a good readme.md file.
English and Spanish seemed to be functioning OK though, but I really wanted to test my German.
PS: Just happened with Spanish now as well, which was working fine. (You: Subtítulos realizados por la comunidad de Amara.org)
I noticed the transcription APIs clean up my mistakes (which is good for the transcript) but I wonder if there is a way to show the raw and corrected transcript to help guide corrections? Either way, it's already useful as is, looking forward to using it more.
I was using that for a bit, but typing in another language was enough friction (vs. speaking) that I didn't use it that much.
For this, audio is perfect -- all I need is the gentle reminders about what to fix, and why. GPT could probably have a parenthetical part in the official transcript too.
Anyway, hope that helps give context.
Great job!
Also after 3-4 sentences the questions got a bit "dull-person-at-a-party" small-talk... "What are you doing today?" / "I'm programming." / "What programming language are you learning?" / [I didn't say I was learning...] "Java." / "Oh, interesting. Java is a popular programming language. What do you like about Java?".
For me in that language I need to work on understanding native speakers, so currently it speaks too slowly for what I personally need (it's too "easy"). I did ask it twice to speed up but it didn't seem able to - I guess it's hardcoded in your text-to-speech code? Is that something you can add an option for?
I personally would be cautious learning an extra language through a tool like this though, especially for a huge list of supposedly supported languages like this. Chat-GPT gets basic concepts like verb suffixes wrong, that is, explaining those concepts and generating example sentences, when I was trying it out a few months ago. I wouldn't mind conversations feeling a bit awkward or unrealistic, (EDIT: as they do here), but I wouldn't trust AI tools atm to get sentence structure, spelling and pronunciation (!) all completely right which is imperative for such a tool to function (and this one didn't for the two languages I tested).
If we assume the AI is already at that level, it would be trivial to have it show translations to user's native languages instead of only to English and excluding a number of potential revenue-generators for the capitalist machine ("learners").
Your prompt leaked in the text box when I pressed the Start Conversation button multiple times, and the site seems to be getting HN-hugged-of-death right now.
Also, adding to the person who mentioned this being close sourced, if a "deep-rooted desire not to look foolish in front of others" was among my reasons not to talk to a stranger in an extra language, I don't think I'd be any more likely speaking into a microphone, alone, in a room, like I'm conducting my biannual mandatory TOEFL© test every two years.[1]
[1]: This one is actually worse because you're in a room with 10+ others simultaneously talking into a computer screen, not talking to a person but just having your voice recorded, and it's outrageous ETS is getting away with charging people like 200 bucks (getting to see feedback for your grade is extra)
That makes sense. I do understand the worries about learning from AI. It's worth saying that different software is used for transcribing what you say (rather than ChatGPT), and that's been trained on lots of data (including YouTube videos) of people speaking that language, not to say that it could never get it wrong. But I definitely hear what you're saying about ChatGPT sentence structure on the less popular languages.
Good point about open sourcing. I definitely agree.
This seems much more a tool for practicing the stuff you learn in another context to me, rather than a way of learning in itself. You can use it without the social pressure of stumbling slowly through sentences with another person.
This matters if you ask it for grammar. But you can get to a pretty advanced level before this starts to affect you when trying to have a conversation which is usually far more forgiving. And while ChatGPT certainly makes errors, even for a minor language like Norwegian it gets it close enough that I can get it to have a perfectly fine conversation in minor regional dialects.
I think the best thing to do is to pair something like this with a more traditional course for learning the specific rules, because starting to speak as early as possible is a great way of building a level of fluency that takes ages otherwise. Not least because ChatGPT will still understand you pretty well if you mix two languages within a sentence, so you can start talking almost right away and tell it to translate as needed.
You can already ask this app to translate things to your own language - I had it both translate French to Norwegian, and asked it a question in French which it translated to French before responding.
The point isn't that you wouldn't benefit from it doing better, but that it doesn't need to be anywhere near perfect to help a typical language student improve.
I really appreciate you having Japanese as a language choice. I've been dying to hone my japanese skills with AI in lieu of reading grammar/vocab books etc.
I definitely intend to use your product more, because it is definitely scratching that itch!
A couple of things that might help me personally would be the ability to cancel my current response and redo it, as frequently I will stutter or pause on a thought and wish I could restart over.
In that same vein I would love to see the output of what I'm saying in real-time. If only to gauge and understand what the application "thinks" I'm saying and to potentially correct and miscommunications from spoken input.
I would also love the chance to role play or have the tool help me learn contextual role playing. For example in Japanese keigo is a skill I just haven't mastered. I would love a tool to help put me in positions where I need to use keigo, and then be corrected where I'm failing.
Regardless, this is absolutely fantastic! Thank you so much for sharing! You're awesome :)
Thanks for the feedback. The processing point has come up a couple of times so I'll definitely be adding that, and I'll look into doing some contextual scenarios. If your language is good enough, you could try prompting it to act as, eg a waiter in a restauraunt, but that's far from ideal for beginners!
Sure - realtime transcription makes a lot of sense. I'll look into it.
Please please please keep it in Japanese. Phonetic english for Japanese is awful. Hiragana only for Japanese is really not ideal.
The current output is absolutely perfect.
Also, I think it's really cool I don't need an account to try that out. Very cash money of you.
However, it'd be extra cool if there'd be an option to display furigana - in case user had forgotten or doesn't know some particular kanji. Or maybe just throw an option to replay the audio.
Please do NOT use romaji. I honestly hate it when language-learning apps try to force romaji on me; it's not useful for learning the language. The written language in Japan is Japanese (hiragana/katakana/kanji), not romaji, so I just find it a distraction. Part of learning the language is learning to read it, not just to talk in it, and being forced to read it in its native script is far more useful than latin transliteration. That said, having furigana for unfamiliar kanji is really helpful too.
Definitely Japanese writing system. Thanks.
Amazing tool.
Fwiw, if you’re looking to monetize, you may want to try to get a contract with the DoD. I would start with special operations (lots of money and urgent mission/training needs), and then move on to the Defense Language Institute.
Oral proficiency interviews (OPIs) are part of the qualifying standard, and everyone wants more practice.
Thanks again, Chris
The only changes I would make are to the UI, clicking the start and stop listening button feels awkward. Perhaps make it so you can click, talk, and release the button. And perhaps the option to select a few different voices.
Also intrigued to see where you go with Anki integration. Excellent work, you should feel very proud of what you've built so far.
Got it. Thinking of making it possible to control the mic by holding the space bar, although that wouldn't work for mobile obviously. What devices were you testing it on if you don't mind me asking?
Other than very common scenarios like introductions, spare yourself the headache.
If you are a diplomat or something similar, understanding it might be useful, but using it can be a minefield (e.g., you better know the hierarchy of everyone around you so that you use the appropriate language).
> I would love a tool to help put me in positions where I need to use keigo
In most if not all cases, if you find yourself in a situation that keigo is both standard and expected, one of two things will likely be true:
1. You will have been selected based on your ability to use keigo (e.g., customer facing roles that use keigo like banks).
2. There will be one or more people in your organization who will make sure you know what you need to know.
Most non-native speakers I have known who try to learn keigo use it in really unnatural and sometimes awkward ways.
I have known three people who “got it right”, and maybe a fourth. All are super fluent in “normal” Japanese and are lifelong students of the language.
1. Currently a professor of Japanese. PhD in Japanese from U Hawaii.
2. Polymath Cambridge grad who worked for Cambridge University Press. It was not uncommon for Japanese people to whisper to me about how freakishly good his Japanese was, especially when speaking about formal or technical topics.
3. Power nerd who went deep into the Japanese sword drawing martial art (iaidou). Also a professor.
4. Just a guess, but HN’s patio11 is probably good at keigo. I would listen to anything he has to say about the topic over anything I say.
To put it another way, it's a bit like trying to to learn about how to write in the style of a judicial opinion when you're still learning how to talk to someone at the bar.
Yeah. I can see that. Let me see if I can expand.
1. Keigo falls into the category of “specific purpose” (SP) language. SP language can be relatively simple things like tourism language, or it can be very deep and technical like scientific, medical, engineering, etc. SP language is typically taught and learned on a need to know basis, and it’s totally possible to be highly fluent (usually measured in terms of general proficiency) and not know anything about SP language.
2. Keigo (and this is way more than basic formal and honorific language) is used in very specific situations. As a foreigner, in almost all cases that matter, there will be an interpreter or the foreigner will be trained in keigo.
3. For reference, I think that most of the keigo that I would recommend a non-native speaker learn can be found at this link (it’s a small and easy to learn list):
https://www.fluentu.com/blog/japanese/japanese-keigo/
Furthermore, I think that most of this language is more useful receptively (listening and reading) and will almost never need to be produced (spoken or written).
4. As far as proficiency goes, most keigo would be ILR 5 / CEFR C2, with the basics linked above being ILR 4 / CEFR C1 (used dynamically… much lower as memorized set phrases). When you’re at that level and needing keigo, you know you are lacking in keigo and make an effort to learn it. Before that would probably be a learning sequencing error (other than nerdy curiosity).
Beyond learning the content in the link above, most foreigners will not find themselves in the context of needing to know or use keigo. As special purpose language, it should really only be pursued if necessary. Otherwise, the knowledge learned will most likely be forgotten due to lack of use, or it will be used awkwardly and possibly inappropriately (as I mentioned before).
If it’s just a nerd itch to scratch, then go for it. For most people, I think there are more compelling aspects of Japanese to spend time on.
If you put it like that - OK. I was under the impression that you were implying "learn no Keigo at all beyond introductions (except Teineigo)", which would seem rather odd to me, as I've definitely heard 行ってまいります, Xでございます, etc. in Anime and movies.
If you're talking about the advanced uses that even many native speakers struggle with (unless properly trained), then yeah, maybe it's specialised vocab that you won't necessarily need.
To me, this is the part that is keigo. The other stuff is relatively simple and early in terms of language acquisition.
Assuming that others share my definition of keigo may be assuming to much on my part.
In learners' resources (where Teineigo is introduced usually right at the start), my impression is that Teineigo is not included, and that Keigo starts with Sonkeigo and Kenjougo. That's still introduced comparatively early, but much later than Teineigo (I think, it's in Genki 2, for example).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36982980
> Keigo isn't some high-level PhD topic
It gets multiple book level treatment in Japanese (if you’re in Japan, please ask about the keigo section at a decent bookstore), and I am familiar with at least a few post-graduate papers on the topic.
Some additional comments:
1. Something like this link (http://keigo.livedoor.biz/archives/cat_14420.html) might be a good intermediate level of keigo. A lot of the less common keigo on those pages get butchered by non-native speakers when they try to use it (mainly because they shouldn’t be using it).
> given how common it is it's a very reasonable thing for even an intermediate speaker to want to practice
2. Unless someone is a diplomat, a 会社員 or in some sort of traditional arts, I would humbly suggest that they could go their entire lives without producing any keigo outside of memorized words and phrases (e.g., おはようございます) and could be seen as a highly fluent, high-functioning speaker by Japanese people. The basic link I provided in my first reply and the intermediate link in this reply are plenty to have receptive knowledge of, but one could argue that the important keigo in these lists simply falls under slightly more difficult memorized words and phrases (something acquired relatively early at lower proficiency) rather than advanced generative rules (something acquired much later at higher levels of proficiency).
3. Referring back to your “not a high level PhD topic” comment , I sure as hell would love to read some detailed breakdowns of top tier keigo use and keigo faux pas (especially in high level negotiations). I’ve never seen anything first-hand, but have I heard some stories. I’m pretty sure the best stories never leave the room they were uttered in.
To close, I’m not sure what your experience is with Japan and Japanese language, but I get the sense they you and I see keigo very, very differently.
Fwiw, I have been part of a training team that trained folks who were in “protocol positions” in Japan, and I can tell you that keigo was a constant sphincter-clinching aspect of that training (usually bypassed with an interpreter in high stakes Japanese-language situations, using English-English most of the other time in less formal situations, and using memorized words and phrases the rest of the time).
I'm using the term the same way wikipedia does, and all the links you posted - it's a broad category of usages including 尊敬語, 謙譲語, etc. It's not some rare thing - if you walk into a 7-11 or restaurant, literally every sentence spoken to you will include some kind of keigo. It sounds like you're using the term solely to mean the highest heights of formalism, but I don't know where you're getting that usage.
The keigo you refer to is the easiest keigo to learn, and much of it is learned as a beginning learner as memorized words and phrases.
In the context of the person I originally replied to, this type of content is either trivially easy to study/learn or not worth learning (e.g., most learners don’t really need to know that おはようございます is a highly stylized form of はやい — the memorized phrase and others like it are more than adequate until one is an advanced learner).
The keigo that would warrant using an AI speaking partner would, imho, lean towards the much more complicated aspects of keigo.
Note that I have actually referred this tool to folks who do training in keigo (and other language things). I’m not sure how the tool will do or what type of prompts need to be used to get the right type of engagement, but I think that there is potential on this front for advanced learners. For lower level learners, this tool is massive overkill.
Edit:
Note that most English-language web pages about keigo cover the simplest (and least interesting, imho) parts of keigo. Part of this is due to SEO, but part of it is probably due to ignorance about the topic.
For anyone interested, and if their Japanese is good enough, just search Amazon Japan for books on keigo. The topic is quite deep and can be incredibly fascinating. The content covered on English web pages just scratches the surface of the scope of keigo.
Serious question…
Unless this “intermediate learner” works in a Japanese-language position (like a 会社員), is a diplomat, or is involved in a traditional art (or these types of relatively rare categories), in what context would they ever produce utterances using any of these words appropriately and naturally?
This is just not the type of language that intermediate learners need to produce very often. When they do, their organization will most likely train them beforehand, use an interpreter, or just not care.
I lived in Japan 8 years, and I worked in a Japanese-language environment. I’m pretty sure the times I had the opportunity to use any of the words you listed appropriately could probably be counted on my fingers and maybe extending to my toes.
Granted, I was not in a position of power (those folks used keigo all the time), and I was not directly involved in any highish stakes negotiations or business transactions (e.g., didn’t buy a house) but still…
Part-time job? Friends or in-laws they'd like to impress? Studying for JLPT? Just wanting to be able to speak everyday Japanese as it's spoken?
Respectfully, I really think you have a distorted sense of this due to whatever your background is. Per a quick google, some of the terms I listed earlier show up in JLPT from level 3. I'm no expert but I don't think N3 is considered high-level diplomacy territory. If you got by here without using such terms that's fine, but it's no argument against studying them - lots of people get by without learning kanji, etc.
There are entire PhD theses on aspects of English (or Spanish, German, Italian, French, Russian, ...) grammar too. That doesn't mean that people can not learn to use the aspect in question intuitively. It just means that it's difficult to provide an explanation for this behaviour.
The key indicators that kept coming up were the number of unique words used and the speed at which you speak, so they're involved. I'm hesitant to give the full equation, because I thought it might be better to leave some mystery so we aren't consciously trying to game it while we learn.
It is by no means perfect, but I think it's useful to have some objective metric to track progress.
One followup: does it take into account grammatical errors, incorrect conjugations and that kind of thing?
Sort of. It will try to understand you even if you get the grammar wrong (a bit like a human would), but if it really has no clue what you're trying to say, it will ask you to repeat. I think it's best that way as it mimics learning in real life. If you keep getting your point across, over time, your grammar will slowly improve. The only evidence I have for this is anecdotal from learning Romanian with it myself.
That's useful feedback on pointers for improvement - I'll see what can be done.
I could see this tool to be very useful in my Japanese studies. I only have two problems with it:
- AI feedback can sometimes be pretty overwhelming. Maybe you could implement a level selector (beginner, intermediate and expert?) so that the AI would switch to using shorter/simpler or longer/harder sentences accordingly?
- The speech to text works fine most of the time, but sometimes it gets a few words wrong. Could there be a way to correct the last sentence input?
Just to check that I understand, do you mean changing the text manually when it gets it wrong? If so, sure - I can look into it.
(Also an undo button would be easier to implement than a whole system to edit previous sentences, right?)
I feel your pain, I've also been a stuttering mess in Romanian.
Imho UX would be improved by a larger text box, more clear demarcation between "stuff I've said" and "stuff the bot said," similar to how iMessage or Whatsapp have two-column message layouts or blue-vs-grey or both.
Also maybe some "hold spacebar to activate mic" keybindings would not go amiss, similar to how Zoom or Gmeet makes the mic hot if you're muted but hold spacebar. That would save a lot of choppy/distracting clicking. (Or possibly just make the mic hot all the time when the bot isn't talking?)
Good point on not being able to discern between what you said and what the AI said. Will change that when I get a chance.
Sure - I'll look into 'hold spacebar' type functionality. Thanks for the useful feedback.
I also got fluency score None which, let’s be real, is pretty accurate. But I feel like I need a bit more to help me learn.
The microphone interaction is really nice.
Makes sense - getting from 0 to 1 can be a bit of a struggle with this method, so could be good to find some ways to make that easier.
I've asked to teach me how to construct past tense in Spanish. It gave me a few examples (Spanish and English translation right next to it, text-to-speech engine hadn't realized that some words were in English, though, and pronounced them in Spanish manner), then suggested I try to form my own sentences. So I've replied "Yo entendí sus ejemplos!" (uh, I hope I've got it right) but somehow it transcribed it as "You: Suscríbete para no perderte nuestros próximos videos." While I think I've stuttered and may be mispronounced something, it surely didn't sound anywhere close to that.
Being an LLM, it didn't bat an eye and asked me about the name of my channel :)
But I'm wondering if there was some request-response mismatch with the Speech-to-text API you're using and I've somehow got a phrase intended for someone else.
I’m unable to sign up, though. On mobile, I’m trying to hit the sign up button after filling out the form, but it’s not doing anything or giving me an error.
That's weird. Any chance you could ping me an email with the email you're using to sign up and I'll work out what's going wrong? chris@prettypolly.app. Thanks again.