Oh no! I never used their server, but I followed them and was very impressed about the work they did and the community they created. All the best to their family.
Gutted to hear this. We had the privilege to speak with her late last year on the work she had done on Hachyderm -- and to get her perspective on the Mastodon and the Fediverse more generally.[0] She was a great presence and technologist, and inspiring to many people. It is tragic to have lost someone so young; RIP.
I don't know, but she did enjoy mountain climbing, and she's seemed to be in good spirits lately (https://krisnova.net/posts/ego-death/) so I'm guessing a climbing accident until we hear more.
I always figured I'd bump into her again and reconnect. Kris was unlike anyone I've met before. "infectious energy" exemplified. Big ideas and the determination to chase them. I still remember some words of encouragement she gave me, seemingly so easily. :( RIP Kris
I was lucky enough to work with Kris Nova. I was gutted when I heard this and I'm still in shock. She was in the middle of doing the hachyderm thing and I was struggling with some other stuff and we ended up just happening to meet at a restaurant. "Fuck what people say and think, do you what you want, that's what I'm going to do."
Here's a segment from one of her recent streams. This is how I will remember her:
I was supposed to climb a mountain with her. There really aren't that many people in this world to whom you can say, "let's do a (slightly out there) thing", to which they say "yes" without hesitation and with 100% certainty.
Awful, scary. My son loves climbing things. I enjoy a bit of indoor bouldering, I'd love to get him into it, but I'm terrified of him deciding to do silly shit like free soloing.
I've been climbing on and off for 30 years. Most people are not "free" soloing as it's called in the US (just soloing in the UK). If he's the sort of person that's attracted to those kinds of things he'll find other dangerous stuff to do anyway like sky diving, riding motorbikes. Most climbing is relatively safe although accidents do happen from time to time often due to complacency.
I'm sorry to hear this much loved person has died. RIP
I know this terror as a parent now, and recognize just how scary it must have been for mine. I was one of these kids growing up; I didn't free solo but I found plenty of cliffs to jump, steep hills to bomb, and difficult dangerous things to do in the ocean beyond the watchful eyes of my parents. I don't believe there was anything they could have done to prevent this. I also think that they recognized this, because while they always cautioned me to be careful, instead of trying to prevent my adventuring they consistently prepared me with training, information and opportunities to (semi-)safely test my limits.
I recognize myself in my son now, and while I also am sometimes terrified of what that might mean, I think my parents took the right tack and I'm trying my best to do the same. I'd rather he's a strong swimmer, a trained climber, a confident adventurer, than an adolescent just taking risks in defiance.
I used to climb up in the roof of my parents terraced house and walk along the steep roof towards my neighbours. The drop was 3 floors on both sides and I would do this in the middle of the night as a teenager (I was "inspired" by Daredevil comic books).
Looking back on those moments now as an adult, the hair on my skin stands up just at how incredibly stupid and dangerous it was.
I sometimes think of my parallel selves in other worlds, and wonder how many of them are dead and how my family progressed through the grief, from this action alone
Last Wednesday evening Kris Nova had a climbing accident and died.
All of us that loved her are heart broken and stunned. She was an amazing person that lived out loud and built connection and community wherever she went. She will be horribly missed.
Apologies, that's not what I intended to say, and not what I said to her either.
It's unfortunately true that my behaviour (and the behaviour of many autistic people) can be easily characterised as being an asshole, and vague rules do not help us function.
The condition is very much characterised by being unable to understand social cues.
I really was trying only to be helpful and got quite hurt in the interaction.
Dijjt, I do have some empathy for you. I'm on the spectrum but only mildly.
You're right that social cues are complex and inconsistent.
But it's not helpful to the autistic community to suggest that they are unable to learn how not to be an asshole - in online, or irl communities. I know many that started with struggles, but learned how to handle it.
The trick was wanting to try. To decide that the empty annoying irritating things that allstics do are not malicious either. And that social interaction is like the rules of a very complex game.
It takes time, it takes effort, it takes humility.
I don't know you so I would never presume what your situation is. But I know of several people in my life who are on the spectrum that I got close to before I realized that they genuinely have no interest in self improvement, and they use their autistic diagnostic as a cover to see themselves as above petty human social squabbles, and that their assholishness is a mark of pride that they use to refuse to better themselves. I hope that's not where you are at.
The fundamental issue is that Autism itself is at least partially characterised by being unable to read social cues, this is harder in text form.
Its very easy to say something in perhaps not the best way. To welcome autists you have to do what the hackernews guidelines do: State that “Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.”
This is not essential to operating your site, but if you are trying to be inclusive to neurodivergency then its extremely helpful to them to have a guideline like this which allows them to feel a bit at ease.
A rule like “don’t be an asshole” requires a emotional intelligence that may be lacking, it will feel like a guillotine around the neck waiting to strike if you comment something which is interpreted in way other than it was intended.
A fantastic example of this, ironically, is this thread and the original thread with Kris. Mal-intent was assumed but was not intended; people in this thread have genuinely called me an asshole- with no sense of irony.
That's not what was said. What was said was implying that autistic folks need the ability to have their actions judged from the perspective of their trouble rather than just blindly judged 'asshole' when they make a social miss-step.
Regardless, this isn't the time or place for moderation chat; one of our own had suffered a tragically early demise, and I mourn. My condolences to everyone affected.
To steelman your point, I believe you're saying that an Autistic person may have difficulty not "being an asshole" due to lack of understanding or awareness of how you're interactions with others may be perceived. Therefore, while the rules try to be inclusive of autistic people, they are simultaneously exclusive by requiring a level of social awareness that may be impossible.
I'm glad. I appreciate and understand (viscerally) your point, and I don't believe it is deserving of the backlash that you have received. Hopefully my restating will support a more intelligent conversation, or at least earn you a fake internet point or two back.
Sounds like your message implied that being autistic meant being an asshole, which categorically isn't true.
You can be accused of being an asshole, it doesn't mean it's because of your autism though - and going "autistic = asshole" is absolutely worthy of a ban.
Maybe don't be so quick to portray your own experiences onto autistic people as whole. If you wanted more specifics about what Kris meant by "don't be an asshole," you could've asked her (or any Hachyderm staffer).
You are not every autistic person, and not every autistic person is an asshole.
Portraying all autistic people as assholes - or implying that by virtue of being autistic, they can't not be an asshole - is incredibly ignorant and ableist.
While I sympathise with your struggle with intent or clarity, it does seem that you were an asshole, and your projected assumptions about autistic people because of your own experiences are harmful, not helpful.
I understood it fine, but thanks for the assumption.
It was put across in an asshole way, and bringing it up when it has no relevance to commiserating the loss of a great person and engineer, is an asshole move - autistic or not.
I'm on the spectrum, and my son even more so. It's painful when my heart is in the right place, but neuro-typicals mistake my intent and refuse to believe me.
It's taken a lot of effort for me to adjust my communication style to avoid those situations. Happily it's mostly paid off, but I'm sad that my son will likely need to walk the same path somewhat.
> neuro-typicals mistake my intent and refuse to believe me
This is an idea I had to unlearn. We struggle as much understanding ourselves as understanding other people. When people react negatively to our behavior often times we immediately jump to extending unlimited benefit of the doubt to our own intentions. In reality, our perception of our own intentions are often post-hoc fabrications to preserve our self-image as a nice person. Letting go of this assumption was helpful to a better understanding of interpersonal interaction.
Kris and I worked together only briefly on a small hack project, but everything about them was exactly what you'd imagine in a forward-thinking community leader and technologist.
I'm deeply saddened for those who knew Kris well, and hope some solace is found in knowing that their contributions left the world a brighter place.
155 comments
[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 238 ms ] thread[0] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/mastodon-wi...
[0] https://mirror.as35701.net/video.fosdem.org/2020/K.1.105/kub... [1] https://archive.fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/kubernetes/
> "@nova died unexpectedly late Wednesday in a climbing accident."
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1884973353
Said she was running and climbing and the happiest she's been in her life.
Here's a segment from one of her recent streams. This is how I will remember her:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1884973353?t=1238s
Nóva was a great friend and an asskicker, she loved being a hacker.
RIP. I'll be thinking of you on the mountains.
https://hachyderm.io/@quintessence/110922746691596046
> The person I cherished more than any other, @nova , died unexpectedly late Wednesday in a climbing accident.
> I have no words, only despair. The light in my soul is gone.
> Joe Beda @jbeda and Nivenly are posting announcements. Others will also.
I'm sorry to hear this much loved person has died. RIP
I recognize myself in my son now, and while I also am sometimes terrified of what that might mean, I think my parents took the right tack and I'm trying my best to do the same. I'd rather he's a strong swimmer, a trained climber, a confident adventurer, than an adolescent just taking risks in defiance.
Looking back on those moments now as an adult, the hair on my skin stands up just at how incredibly stupid and dangerous it was.
I sometimes think of my parallel selves in other worlds, and wonder how many of them are dead and how my family progressed through the grief, from this action alone
The best I can hope is that husbanding my son’s energy will ensure that I leave this place before he does.
Last Wednesday evening Kris Nova had a climbing accident and died.
All of us that loved her are heart broken and stunned. She was an amazing person that lived out loud and built connection and community wherever she went. She will be horribly missed.
https://twitter.com/jbeda/status/1693290822370787697
Calling all autistic people assholes is very worthy of being blocked and banned
It's unfortunately true that my behaviour (and the behaviour of many autistic people) can be easily characterised as being an asshole, and vague rules do not help us function.
The condition is very much characterised by being unable to understand social cues.
I really was trying only to be helpful and got quite hurt in the interaction.
You're right that social cues are complex and inconsistent.
But it's not helpful to the autistic community to suggest that they are unable to learn how not to be an asshole - in online, or irl communities. I know many that started with struggles, but learned how to handle it.
The trick was wanting to try. To decide that the empty annoying irritating things that allstics do are not malicious either. And that social interaction is like the rules of a very complex game.
It takes time, it takes effort, it takes humility.
I don't know you so I would never presume what your situation is. But I know of several people in my life who are on the spectrum that I got close to before I realized that they genuinely have no interest in self improvement, and they use their autistic diagnostic as a cover to see themselves as above petty human social squabbles, and that their assholishness is a mark of pride that they use to refuse to better themselves. I hope that's not where you are at.
The fundamental issue is that Autism itself is at least partially characterised by being unable to read social cues, this is harder in text form.
Its very easy to say something in perhaps not the best way. To welcome autists you have to do what the hackernews guidelines do: State that “Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.”
This is not essential to operating your site, but if you are trying to be inclusive to neurodivergency then its extremely helpful to them to have a guideline like this which allows them to feel a bit at ease.
A rule like “don’t be an asshole” requires a emotional intelligence that may be lacking, it will feel like a guillotine around the neck waiting to strike if you comment something which is interpreted in way other than it was intended.
A fantastic example of this, ironically, is this thread and the original thread with Kris. Mal-intent was assumed but was not intended; people in this thread have genuinely called me an asshole- with no sense of irony.
Regardless, this isn't the time or place for moderation chat; one of our own had suffered a tragically early demise, and I mourn. My condolences to everyone affected.
Is that correct?
It seems to be getting downvoted by people who misunderstanding the comment.
as others have mentioned, this topic is probably not a worthwhile one to bring up as the focus is on mourning one of our own.
You can be accused of being an asshole, it doesn't mean it's because of your autism though - and going "autistic = asshole" is absolutely worthy of a ban.
Maybe don't be so quick to portray your own experiences onto autistic people as whole. If you wanted more specifics about what Kris meant by "don't be an asshole," you could've asked her (or any Hachyderm staffer).
You are not every autistic person, and not every autistic person is an asshole.
Portraying all autistic people as assholes - or implying that by virtue of being autistic, they can't not be an asshole - is incredibly ignorant and ableist.
While I sympathise with your struggle with intent or clarity, it does seem that you were an asshole, and your projected assumptions about autistic people because of your own experiences are harmful, not helpful.
It was put across in an asshole way, and bringing it up when it has no relevance to commiserating the loss of a great person and engineer, is an asshole move - autistic or not.
It was not my intention to air a gripe.
I'm on the spectrum, and my son even more so. It's painful when my heart is in the right place, but neuro-typicals mistake my intent and refuse to believe me.
It's taken a lot of effort for me to adjust my communication style to avoid those situations. Happily it's mostly paid off, but I'm sad that my son will likely need to walk the same path somewhat.
> neuro-typicals mistake my intent and refuse to believe me
This is an idea I had to unlearn. We struggle as much understanding ourselves as understanding other people. When people react negatively to our behavior often times we immediately jump to extending unlimited benefit of the doubt to our own intentions. In reality, our perception of our own intentions are often post-hoc fabrications to preserve our self-image as a nice person. Letting go of this assumption was helpful to a better understanding of interpersonal interaction.
Kris and I worked together only briefly on a small hack project, but everything about them was exactly what you'd imagine in a forward-thinking community leader and technologist.
I'm deeply saddened for those who knew Kris well, and hope some solace is found in knowing that their contributions left the world a brighter place.