Road vibration is also bad for MacBook batteries. I used to carry my laptop in a bicycle pannier, and after a while its battery puffed up and started bulging out of the case.
I was just shoving a couple notebooks into a file cabinet when I thought how far we've come with vibration/fall resistant SSDs, but I suppose that constant, vigorous motion is still a danger.
It's impossible to be sure, but I otherwise treated the battery well, and it wasn't an issue with previous or subsequent laptops transported with more care.
The 2015 macbooks had a problem were certain battery batches were bad, and it was basically just a matter of time until it ballooned and became hazardous.
Optical image stabilization in modern phone camera sensors uses (very) small leaf springs along with small actuators to stabilize the sensor from shaking. Undampened vibrations from vehicles, especially motorcycles, can damage this springs as the vibration is enough force to cause the springs to snap.
Usually the result is that the camera tends to look kind of "smudgy" since the actuators can't correctly position the sensor with a broken spring.
I love how everything has to be "blandified" to make it sound less significant than it is when it comes to diagnosing and characterizing a problem by Apple. And I don't exempt other companies from this dumbing down or "unhysterifying" language as well.
"Exposing your iPhone to high amplitude vibrations within certain frequency ranges, specifically those generated by high-power motorcycle engines, can degrade the performance of the camera system."
No, it doesn't kill your camera, it just "degrades" it to the point of unusability. Your battery didn't explode, it just experienced a "thermal event"! Your screen isn't cracked, it just has "user-induced fragmentation anomalies"!
Contrast that with all the intensifiers used when describing the circumstances. It's not vibrations from motorcycle engines causing it, it's "high amplitude" vibrations from "high power" engines.
All completely non qualified as well. What's high power? As high as you can imagine for marketing purposes, but as low as Apple wants it to be for warranty claims.
I've seen some bikeshare bikes that have a phone mount right on the handlebars. This is super-convenient for getting directions in an unfamiliar city (they even have wireless charging!) I couldn't help but thing that it might really be doing a number on the optics of my phone as I blasted across may cobblestone and brick streets.
how camera CCDs fail is sometimes very interesting. I had a canon ixus which failed on a road trip, it grew retro pinstripes. As if a dataline in the scan had failed, and so it had partial feed in a regular pattern out of the cells.
crap getting into otherwise sealed lenses is in some ways more frustrating. the whole device works fine. There's just the ONE speck of dust, which ruins every shot in exactly the same place. I tried taking 2 images with an offset and doing a join, but its harder than it looks. NASA carry this off very well, they have to do a lot of this with gamma ray damage and the like.
Vibration isolation is only going to take you so far. Interesting to wonder how built-in video devices in cars and bikes avoid the risks.
This isn’t about the CCD or sensor failing. It is about the OIS and AF systems failing from vibrations, both of which (to my knowledge) involve mechanical movement.
The part that breaks is magnetic autofocus/image stabilization mechanisms. I don't know exactly but electromagnet drivers getting fried by back EM force or something. Or could be severed coils. something along those.
I've had this issue with my Samsung Note 20 Ultra, but not from motorcycles. I run a couple thousand miles a year and about 6 months ago I noticed my camera would come up out of focus. If I tap the phone fairly hard it will usually come back in focus eventually, but its super annoying. I've started carrying my phone in a pocket on my outer thigh where it should get less impact, rather than a loose zippered pocket of my shorts, but the damage is done to this one. Hopefully my next phone does better.
The important point here is long distance on soft ground.
Don't run on a road or asphalt path or other hard surfaces. Your knees are NOT built for that, at least not without degradation you will regret in a few decades.
S22 ultra here, when I shake my phone there is something rattling, I always assumed it was some part of lenses, since they have some advanced stuff like periscopes and maybe for some good reason some part is not tightly held as the rest. Otherwise there shouldn't be a thing moving in the phone.
As long as it keeps working no concern, and it works fine, focus is quick. But yeah I won't be mounting it on motorcycle (or mountain bike) anytime soon
Most phone cameras rattle while the camera is off. If you turn the main camera on, then it normally stops the rattle temporarily, since the rattling lens assembly is now held in place electromagnetically.
Any phone with OIS or AF will rattle if you shake it hard enough. It's just the springs of the lens assembly hitting the endstops of travel. Shouldn't damage anything unless you really hit it quite hard (or, repeatedly, as a motorcycle would). I've also noticed you can sometimes get rattling from buttons on a phone too. Could also be that.
Not unique to iPhones but the way I see it, mounting a phone in a vehicle is a common enough use-case that it should be designed for. Doesn't matter if it's a motorcycle or not.
Would keeping the camera on help? When it is on, the stabiliser components are active and they should counteract most of the vibrations. If this works, it might be worth it for apple to detect motorcycle vibrations for more than x minutes and energise the stabilisers without actually turning on the other imaging related parts of the camera.
Mounted my iPhone to the handlebars of an Indian Springfield motorcycle, which certainly had some vibration from the motor ("111 cu in (1,811 cc)"), and the camera is now partly FUBAR. The phone says, "Unknown Part. Unable to determine if your iPhone camera is a genuine Apple part." Some features no longer work, some work improperly or poorly, etc.
Yup. The best bet is the handlebar bag with clear pouch and a cheap $100 android phone with offline google maps. I am personally using a Samsung Galaxy which I bought it from fb marketplace.
Fortnine recently recommended grabbing a used Sonim phone (https://www.sonimtech.com/) to use as a motorcycle mounted phone. They're designed for EMS workers, so they're waterproof and have mappable physical buttons so you can use key functions with gloves on.
I was thinking of grabbing a cheap phone for this, but still attached to the handlebars. If it's sunny, the phone would probably get too hot and shut off in a pouch, especially since my motorbike has a big enough fairing that mounting the pouch in the wind wouldn't be practical.
I mount mine on a mountain bike. While this isn't "high-amplitude vibrations," there are certainly lots of bumps and jolts. Fingers crossed as I really need to have my phone visible for directions, etc...
> Neither “high-power” nor “motorcycle” are words I would use to characterize the vehicle in that advertisement.
Words I would use are 'manipulating gig workers nto thinking they can/should/must own a phone that far exceeds the value of their scooter.'
I have a Mac (computer) that I used for work stuff but I will never get the cult-like fantacism that drives the mobile phone sales side, even this ad screams of RATM No Shelter:
The poor adore keep fiendin' for more
The thin line between entertainment and war
Fix the need, develop the taste
Buy their products or get laid to waste
I had an older iiphone (sub 9) and the reason I got it was because the app I used it for pretty much abandoned Android support entirely, nothing on the Android version worked and was not being updated despite a significant outcry for support. It then died when I took it to EU (where they have almost no penetration) and used a phone charger and lost like $60 worth of Bitcoin on that phone.
I'm glad I'm a millennial that never got sucked into these stupid things, unlike most of my generation: I almost always have a laptop on me that can do everything a mobile phone can do with a much better UX and security/privacy,
With that said, I drove with my older S. Korean made LG Android on my motorcycles all the time and never had an issue, so... blame Foxconn made QA?
Did that phone have OIS? That's what seems to break with the iphones. Anecdotally, my iphone 7 has ridden countless miles on motorbike handlebars with no issue.
Motorbike GPS, and more broadly mapping, is one of the main uses I get from my phone that my laptop can't provide. Also music, when out and about. Other than that, my phone sees little to no action. During COVID lockdowns, it would gather visible dust from lack of use. That's why I like looking out for deals on refurbished iphones, so I can keep them for a long time, while also getting updates.
Poor people, like gig economy workers, buy smart phones because it IS their computer. The reason you see people in low paying jobs with big expensive smart phones: it’s their computer, game console, tv, radio, camera, photo album, etc. etc.
That was one of the surprising marketing lessons for the early iPhones and is a well known social phenomenon.
I love when people who don’t know any poor people go on these rants.
> That was one of the surprising marketing lessons for the early iPhones and is a well known social phenomenon.
I don't think that invalidates my position, or argument: hence why I said that laptops provide a better UX, if I had been introduced to the bloated, spyware ridden version of the Internet provided by mobile as my first experience online, I'm pretty sure I would have never bothered. It is such an inferior version of the internet demanding more and more of the person's privacy in order to just to use as Surveillance capitalism relies on it's users data to be the ultimate product.
> I love when people who don’t know any poor people go on these rants.
And I love it when people's biases make them so blind they can rationalize the perverse system, that they likely benefit from one form or another, that underpins it and try to sound righteous (we help the poor) in the process. This is exactly what fueled the cult of effective altruism and why it was as effective as it was as it gave grifters a way to rationalize their cons.
> And I love it when people's biases make them so blind they can rationalize the perverse system, that they likely benefit from one form or another, that underpins it and try to sound righteous (we help the poor) in the process. This is exactly what fueled the cult of effective altruism and why it was as effective as it was as it gave grifters a way to rationalize their cons.
Nah, I'm not blind the the perverse incentives but ...
> I'm glad I'm a millennial that never got sucked into these stupid things,
I'm not blaming the poor people for their problems.
This is exclusively American "poor" people. Everyone I've known who struggles to pay bills could NEVER afford an iPhone, and wouldn't be able to get it on a payment plan either, because verizon stopped offering them contracts a decade ago, or they are stuck buying a $100 "smart talk" smartphone that is a stupidly old and underpowered machine that they then suffer through until it inevitably falls apart under normal use and they tape it back together so they don't have to buy another one for a little longer.
"Poor" people don't ever have the $800 needed to buy an iPhone at one time, like ever.
This makes a lot more sense when you look at less rich countries and see how much less popular iPhones are. It's only in America where people who aren't in poverty but rather deep into the lower class that will make sacrifices so they can buy an iPhone, or worse, pay $1600 over a two year payment plan and then UPGRADE after the plan is through. Americans are so terrified of being SEEN as poor, because they know how they vote for poor people to be treated.
> This makes a lot more sense when you look at less rich countries and see how much less popular iPhones are. It's only in America where people who aren't in poverty but rather deep into the lower class that will make sacrifices so they can buy an iPhone, or worse, pay $1600 over a two year payment plan and then UPGRADE after the plan is through. Americans are so terrified of being SEEN as poor, because they know how they vote for poor people to be treated.
Well said, and hence why I quoted Rage Against the Machine who later go on to say on a track for Sony's Godzilla movie no less:
Godzilla pure motherfucking filla'
Get your eyes on the real killa'
Despite being from the US, I will never understand this 'culture' and it seems so vapid and fake until you realize that is exactly what most people want out of their relationships as a whole: something so trite and cliche that fits in within the confines of a narrow attention span and is equally digestble on social media that signals to other like minded people in kind. The people who I see using phones as a status symbol are often the least economically stable I know: think children/teenagers or those older who simply have no other assets or investments to speak of.
I’m talking about Smartphones in general. The iPhone example was when we learned that there was a surprise uptake amongst lower income demographics because of the computer or phone affordability dilemma. This hold true for lower cost smartphones, even more so now.
Eh, it qualifies as a motorcycle IMO. Whether the engine's vibrations transit enough through the frame to damage the camera though is a matter of some debate. It's not just power; how well the engine's tuned, if it's been damaged, etc can affect that pretty drastically.
A big factor is the number of cylinders and their arrangement, which affect the so called primary and secondary engine balance. A smaller single cylinder produces much more vibration than a way larger inline four with a 1-3-4-2 firing order.
I would assume though that phone cameras are damaged by higher frequency vibrations, a big component of which is speed and type of tyres/road condition
This is a big factor. My Husqvarna Vitpilen 401 is a single cylinder 373cc engine and boy does it vibrate. My Kawasaki Versys 650 is a two cylinder and the vibrations are barely noticeable even at red line or high speeds.
I have a single cyl bike that goes over 160mph and tries to wheelie out of your control at every chance. The vibration is way worse than a similar 4cyl. The more pistons, the less vibration. That is why luxury cars have been the homes of v12s and the like. Harmonics are more impactful inside the engine. Uneven firing of the cylinder is actually a feature to maintain traction in sport bikes, look up 'big bang firing order' for an interesting rabbit hole.
Indeed. But, anecdotally, the absolute worst ride quality I've had on a powered two-wheeler was with that kind of scooter. All the legitimately "high-powered motorcycles" (>1000 CC and > 100 HP) I've ridden have been very smooth. Not Citroën Hydractive smooth, but still, night and day compared to the vibrating mess of small city scooters.
If it has two wheels ("bicycle") and a motor ("motorized bicycle") then it is a "motorcycle".
Declining to call it a motorcycle because the motor is small relative to other motorcycles is little more than snobbery, and it's a snobbery that discourages people from buying a (larger) motorcycle that fits their needs, because of a historic arbitrary distinction between small and large motorcycles that require separate licensing for large motorcycles; a distinction that should be eliminated either by applying licensing requirements uniformly to all motorcycles or uniformly eliminating the licensing requirements from all motorcycles.
It's not snobbery, a cheap scooter like the one in that ad makes it much harder to kill yourself than a real motorcycle, which is why there is a different licence required.
Here, a scooter like that you can't even drive in a highway - restricting its use to a city makes it much safer.
I would love to see accident statistics that supports that claim.
Last time I looked at it small bikes, generally used by delivery drivers to be fair, vastly overshadowed any other motorcycle accidents.
On the same note death rates per vehicle on the road was lower for motorcycles than all other vehicle classes and a large portion of those deaths were passengers on a motorcycle and not the driver.
This was all from the mid 2010s though. The statistics showed more to me that wearing correct protection equipment significantly reduced your chance of dieing, the displacement of the engine or even the type of motorcycle had some impact but definitely wasn't a major factor.
Are you sure that the statistics you looked into take into account number of vehicle on the road and miles/minutes traveled for each category?
Smaller bikes/scooters (you can drive them with a car license in my country if they are under 50cc) have a max top speed of 50km/h (31mph).
On the other hand, one of the most popular motorcycles (Yamaha MT-07) does 0-100km/h (0-60 mph) in under 4 seconds and can reach speeds of over 130 miles per hour. There is a lot that can go wrong if you are not careful. Also, it is almost twice as heavy.
If one wishes to take the perspective that licensure helps prevent injuries and death, then apply the licensure requirements to these lighter vehicles too. If one prefers the perspective that all such transport is inherently risky, and thus prioritize personal responsibility and assumption of risk, then let's get rid of the licensure requirements, which will surely help get more people out of their 4-wheelers, with knock-on improvements for the environment, traffic congestion, and parking. My problem is with the arbitrary distinction in the middle.
> Declining to call it a motorcycle because the motor is small relative to other motorcycles is little more than snobbery,
At least in my country, it's not a question of engine size but of having a step-through frame. A Vespa with a 300cc engine would usually be called a motor scooter, a CB125R with a 125cc engine is a motorbike.
Of course, my country's parlance is wildly inconsistent. Some motor scooters are also known as 'mopeds' despite not having pedals. E-bikes have motors and pedals, and yet aren't called mopeds or motorbikes. The tax authority considers motor scooters to be motorbikes. Certain motorbike tax bands call the vehicle a 'bicycle'. E-scooters are scooters with motors, yet aren't called motor scooters. 'Bikers' refers to motorcyclists, and 'cyclists' to bicycle riders. And so on.
The UK DVLA must be snobs too, I can ride the moped in the video with my car licence but not a motorbike. And a high-powered one - which you declined to mention - is another licence again.
Why does that matter to the government? It requires skill to use a knife, and if it's mishandled it can cause severe bodily harm; should we require people to get a license to use a knife in their own kitchen? If it's because of the potential lethality to others, then surely we ought to require licensing for all motorbikes (including small motorbikes); what if a toddler wanders into the bike lane where these small-engine motorbikes are permitted?
> speed
Non-motorized cyclists can hit speeds of over 120 km/h (admittedly an extreme case, but still): https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/122... . Should we require licensing for non-motorized bicycles simply because the vehicle has the potential to hit a certain speed? Wouldn't it then make more sense to require licensure for anyone who travels faster than a certain speed, and for any two-wheeled vehicle to be registered and plated?
Again I concede that there are naturally differences between large- and small-engine motorcycles. My point is that regardless of which rubric you choose, whether it's safety, skill, whatever, the decision that a mechanical engine requires licensure but an electric one does not, or 125cc motorcycles require licensure but "electric bicycles" do not, wherever that line is drawn is there for historical reasons only, not because of the safety or skill rubric, and therefore is arbitrary, therefore is unjust, therefore should be reformed to be more consistent than just whatever we have today due to historical accident.
It doesn't. It matters to the law, which is a different thing from the government.
And it matters because it matters to society whether someone with insufficient training and testing rides a huge motorcycle, or a truck, or whatever. Especially something like a sports motorcycle which needs more skill than an average car, and is much easier to slip (as accidents stats tell).
>Non-motorized cyclists can hit speeds of over 120 km/h
Rarely and in extreme conditions. Big motorcycles can do it trivially.
The world cycle record is 130 km/h, under very special circumstances and for just 200m or so. The highest end of the speed pros usually achieve is (according to wiki) around 70 km/h, quite less than 120 km/h. Not to mention a motorcycle (especially the kind more heavily regulated) has much more weight than a bike, and thus much more momentum even for the same speed.
>It requires skill to use a knife, and if it's mishandled it can cause severe bodily harm; should we require people to get a license to use a knife in their own kitchen?
I'm pretty sure people are allowed to ride any size of motorcycle in their own kitches or their backyard even. It's when they ride them on the road, and this can kill others, that it gets to be a concern for the law.
The same holds for knives btw. Carrying a knife in the streets in many jurisdictions is considered an offense, similar to carrying a gun. It sure is in mine.
And in general, for all over the US I read "(...) there are often limits on knives or bladed weapons that may be carried. Most states regulate an individual’s ability to carry a knife based on the following characteristics of the knife itself: The type of knife, including the purpose in which it is typically used for; (...) The length of the blade.".
> and this can kill others, that it gets to be a concern for the law.
As this is the crux of your argument, please provide data showing how large motorcycles are so much more lethal for pedestrians compared to cars. Because all the statistics I'm familiar with (and I do take issue with them) show risk for the riders themselves, not for others.
I don't deny that, of course, if you hit a pedestrian in a 500cc motorcycle going 50 km/h then the pedestrian will certainly suffer major injuries if not death. The difference is that the rider will as well, unlike a 4-wheeler that wraps its driver in a roll cage, seat belt, and airbags. This mutually-assured destruction, I argue, causes motorcycle riders to generally be safer on the roads vis-a-vis pedestrians, and that this should hold true regardless of licensure.
That makes no sense, yup.
Well, maybe Scooters, yes - they usually have their engine mounted in the swingarm instead of the central frame, which reduces vibrations at the handlebar.
As for power, that doesnt correlate, eg. I have a 20yrs old KTM single without a dampening balance shaft. It only has 48PS but boy, does it vibrate. 45min ride = tingling feet and hands. So, number of cylinders, crankshaft configuration and number of balance shafts make the difference.
Also: Vibration spectrum and power distribution probably also make a Zuge difference (for the iphone's lens/autofocus mechanism)
Apple also advertises their watches as water resistant and shows ads with people swimming. But as soon as you get some water ingress, you are SOL since it is not guaranteed.
Since the Series 2 they have a water-resistance rating of 50 metres under ISO standard 22810:2010. So despite how it affects the warranty it is definitely designed to withstand swimming.
And it does work, I would have over 150 recorded swimming workouts (45 minutes to an hour each) on my Apple Watch SE.
The problem is, the design is tested to the ISO immersion standard, but the product is not.
What do I mean? In hardware manufacturing lines, if you guarantee water immersion, you actually do that test as part of manufacturing, either using real water or something known as "dryleak" where you gauge air displacement in a fitted and known volume fixture.
Apple and most phone manufacturers aren't going bother with that test since it's extra labor and time, so they instead live with never warranting it.
It doesn't take much to have a water ingress issue. Even a tiny tiny defect in the adhesive gasket gluing the phone together can lead to ingress.
Sure, but isn't that mostly a theoretical issue or only problematic if the device is used at the limit of it's specification? I haven't heard any stories of water damaged iPhones recently. I've had my iPhone XS and 12 underwater without any problems. My apple watch has been in the shower hundreds of times.
Unless this is written in the warranty, your experience is no more useful than an anecdote -- "design to" only goes as far as the watch is still working, otherwise it is $249 down the drain.
Go to any watch forum and post something about wearing your watch that's rated for 100m to wash your hands and watch the flames come in.
They'll argue (maybe rightfully so) that a water resistance rating is not the same as the pressures of swimming. Just dunking something does not do anything such as swimming strokes that could force water into the watch. I find it a little absurd that people won't wash dishes with a 100m resistant watch, but then again, I'm not sporting a 5 figure watch either.
You think that. Get some water in your Ultra, Apple will tell you tough luck.
Many threads with complaints that people are using their Apple Watches as intended and as marketed, but once there is a bit of water ingress, Apple will not cover the damage (outside of normal warranty period).
> *but we don't recommend you use it beyond 40m and may degrade over time.
Worse than that. It was tested and as soon as you pass 40m, it gives a warning, stops displaying the depth and just tells you ASCEND. Once you are above 40m it functions again but the No Decompression Limit is no longer reliable, as it doesn't track the actual depth you were at, while >40m.
Is there a different warranty for the Ultra that gives you money back if the watch is dead because of water damage? (As far as I know, no.) If not, what's the point of your comment?
That disclaimer is shown for exactly 1.5 seconds, or 38 frames, mostly as white text against a white background. Yes, I downloaded and checked as I'm that sad type of person :-) No one can notice the text is there and read it that fast, so for all practical purposes it might as well not be there.
It always disappoints me regulators just let this kind of faux-disclaimer slide. This is just lying with your fingers crossed behind your back.
The fact that drug makers can hawk pills on TV telling you how much you need glockinflexadusal or whatever schizophrenic word-salad name they've come up with for your sporadic knee twinge and show you how you can be young and beautiful and imminently desirable again
(sometimes people who take this pill start pooping and never stop pooping again for the rest of their lives which are thankfully rather short, and on a few occasions people have immediately burst into flames and started screaming in pain but their bodies refuse to die for some reason)
You should ask your doctor if girexamusib is right for you. *images of children wearing white clothing and running through wheat fields and blowing dandelion puff seeds into a beautiful sunset play while the tranquil music of heavens elevator plays softly in the background*
is incredibly terrible for all of the worst reasons.
I'm betting that iPhone cost more than that motorcycle
(though to be fair to the other commenters, the vibration there is probably greatly reduced due to the fact of being more a scooter than a motorbike - being kept loosely on a holder instead of clamped also helps)
This happened to me with my iPhone using a QuadLock mount. The camera started just shaking uncontrollably. Luckily I got a new iPhone back from Apple since I told them I had no idea how it happened. Now I'm using a Vibration Dampener https://www.quadlockcase.eu/collections/accessories/products... that seems to work, but I had received no warning from QuadLock that their mount could potentially damage my phone beforehand. Now I see that they have a small warning when purchasing which is a lot better.
Nothing to say about the product, but man I needed to comment on the video that the product page shows. I think they did a fantastic job with it.
There was something utterly satisfying to me, about the detail of adding a "click" sound every time the image shows someone snapping a phone into its mount. I just assumed it as a natural and expected sound since the second instance when it happens.
I know colloquial usage has changed but I can't get over "vibration dampener" vs "vibration damper".
In olden times, the former would make your phone wet via vibration (how left as an exercise to the reader) while the latter would attenuate or suppress or reduce vibration.
The stalwarts of linguistic precision weep as the world moves on. I still cringe at "I wish I was there" instead of "I wish I were there" (they're both correct but mean different things!). But then, it's a potentially heated topic and the discourse could prove inflammable.
I eagerly await Steinway's new piano featuring a dampener pedal.
The product video features the
WINNINGEST MOTOX RACER OF ALL TIME (at 0:30)
which in terms of linguistic precision almost wraps around from awful to awesome.
That mistake makes a lot of sci-fi unintentionally funny. Especially if you interpret "energy dampener" to be some guy that runs around shooting any electronics with a water gun.
> dampen (v.) 1630s, "to dull or deaden, make weak" (force, enthusiasm, ardor, etc.), from damp (adj.). Meaning "to moisten, make humid" is recorded from 1827.
A "damper" and a "dampener" are actually technical terms that can be used to distinguish two different types of devices. Here, "dampener" is actually correct. [0]
I think that would be an example of overlap in meaning, not sure how that shows "the website can't figure it out" since such overlaps are explicitly mentioned.
Total aside, I and others have had bad experiences with QuadLock. Ended up moving to the Peak Design mobile case and moto or universal mount and it’s been shockingly amazing.
As a casual r/motorcycles browser: it's now common knowledge (there, at least) that you absolutely need a vibration damper if you're mounting your phone.
Yep, that traditionally happened after you had worked in a mine for years using daily a (air powered) drill or similar, though it has been recognized as a industry/work hazard only relatively recently, after the 1970's:
Both cycling and motorcycling have well-known associated pathologies. Groin, testicles, eardrums, hips, they can all suffer. However, this has been known for decades, so there are plenty of countermeasures easily available.
Does anybody know if this would affect bicycles as well?
I have a phone mount on my roadbike handlecars - one of the Quadlock ones - does anybody know if the road vibrations from cycling can cause as much damage as the motorbike?
If anything...I would have thought a fairly stiff road bike would have more vibrations than a motorbike?
I'm assuming not, since the article in the post specifically mentions high-powered engines found in motorcycles—unless you're competing in the Tour de France, you should be fine.
Surely the frequency of the vibration matters too? I would suspect that motorcycles will be closer to the resonant frequency of the springs. I don't pretend to understand enough to say with confidence though.
It happened with my iPhone X on a racing bike. I mounted it with sp-connect on the bike stem. After 2 years (about 8000 kilometers), the camera was completely shaky.
I don’t know about iPhones, but bicycle tourers who ride long stretches of washboard or rough singletrack have frequently complained that the vibrations broke their autofocus lens on an ordinary DSLR or mirrorless camera. And that is not even with the camera mounted, but rather tucked away in a handlebar bag.
A friend of mine told me that the microphone on two different Fairphones broke from mounting them on their rather high-end mountain bike's handlebar (he realized it must be the handlebar after the second breakage.)
Pretty common complaint in reviews for bike mounts when I was researching was breaking autofocus mechanism and IIRC either gyro or accelerometer which messed up screen orientation. Seemed like it happens in city riding as well but might depend on road quality of city.
Supposedly it's any OIS camera. But I've had my Pixel on a Quadlock with a dampner and I've had no problems so far. Could it be that iPhones are more sensible?
it's not just mounted iphones. An iphone doesn't fit in the motorcycle mount but an old oneplus does, so that gets mounted and iphone stays in my jacket pocket. Iphone camera is fubar, oneplus is working just fine.
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[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 238 ms ] threadI was just shoving a couple notebooks into a file cabinet when I thought how far we've come with vibration/fall resistant SSDs, but I suppose that constant, vigorous motion is still a danger.
Usually the result is that the camera tends to look kind of "smudgy" since the actuators can't correctly position the sensor with a broken spring.
Official support page on the matter, even iFixit have recommended not mounting iPhone's on handlebars for years
"Exposing your iPhone to high amplitude vibrations within certain frequency ranges, specifically those generated by high-power motorcycle engines, can degrade the performance of the camera system."
No, it doesn't kill your camera, it just "degrades" it to the point of unusability. Your battery didn't explode, it just experienced a "thermal event"! Your screen isn't cracked, it just has "user-induced fragmentation anomalies"!
My rocket didn't explode, it "spontaneously disassembled" mid flight.
That deployment that pushed me beyond my physical and emotional limits, of which I may never recover, was "challenging".
That absolute cluster fuck of a rollout "presented opportunities to improve our organization".
It's just the fact that continued degradation will result in a non-functioning device eventually =)
Contrast that with all the intensifiers used when describing the circumstances. It's not vibrations from motorcycle engines causing it, it's "high amplitude" vibrations from "high power" engines.
All completely non qualified as well. What's high power? As high as you can imagine for marketing purposes, but as low as Apple wants it to be for warranty claims.
crap getting into otherwise sealed lenses is in some ways more frustrating. the whole device works fine. There's just the ONE speck of dust, which ruins every shot in exactly the same place. I tried taking 2 images with an offset and doing a join, but its harder than it looks. NASA carry this off very well, they have to do a lot of this with gamma ray damage and the like.
Vibration isolation is only going to take you so far. Interesting to wonder how built-in video devices in cars and bikes avoid the risks.
CMOS is what's used in most commercial applications now
Don't run on a road or asphalt path or other hard surfaces. Your knees are NOT built for that, at least not without degradation you will regret in a few decades.
As long as it keeps working no concern, and it works fine, focus is quick. But yeah I won't be mounting it on motorcycle (or mountain bike) anytime soon
Tsk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn50z2PEDEA
> high-power motorcycle engines
Neither “high-power” nor “motorcycle” are words I would use to characterize the vehicle in that advertisement.
Words I would use are 'manipulating gig workers nto thinking they can/should/must own a phone that far exceeds the value of their scooter.'
I have a Mac (computer) that I used for work stuff but I will never get the cult-like fantacism that drives the mobile phone sales side, even this ad screams of RATM No Shelter:
The poor adore keep fiendin' for more
The thin line between entertainment and war
Fix the need, develop the taste
Buy their products or get laid to waste
I had an older iiphone (sub 9) and the reason I got it was because the app I used it for pretty much abandoned Android support entirely, nothing on the Android version worked and was not being updated despite a significant outcry for support. It then died when I took it to EU (where they have almost no penetration) and used a phone charger and lost like $60 worth of Bitcoin on that phone.
I'm glad I'm a millennial that never got sucked into these stupid things, unlike most of my generation: I almost always have a laptop on me that can do everything a mobile phone can do with a much better UX and security/privacy,
With that said, I drove with my older S. Korean made LG Android on my motorcycles all the time and never had an issue, so... blame Foxconn made QA?
Motorbike GPS, and more broadly mapping, is one of the main uses I get from my phone that my laptop can't provide. Also music, when out and about. Other than that, my phone sees little to no action. During COVID lockdowns, it would gather visible dust from lack of use. That's why I like looking out for deals on refurbished iphones, so I can keep them for a long time, while also getting updates.
That was one of the surprising marketing lessons for the early iPhones and is a well known social phenomenon.
I love when people who don’t know any poor people go on these rants.
I don't think that invalidates my position, or argument: hence why I said that laptops provide a better UX, if I had been introduced to the bloated, spyware ridden version of the Internet provided by mobile as my first experience online, I'm pretty sure I would have never bothered. It is such an inferior version of the internet demanding more and more of the person's privacy in order to just to use as Surveillance capitalism relies on it's users data to be the ultimate product.
> I love when people who don’t know any poor people go on these rants.
And I love it when people's biases make them so blind they can rationalize the perverse system, that they likely benefit from one form or another, that underpins it and try to sound righteous (we help the poor) in the process. This is exactly what fueled the cult of effective altruism and why it was as effective as it was as it gave grifters a way to rationalize their cons.
Nah, I'm not blind the the perverse incentives but ...
> I'm glad I'm a millennial that never got sucked into these stupid things,
I'm not blaming the poor people for their problems.
"Poor" people don't ever have the $800 needed to buy an iPhone at one time, like ever.
This makes a lot more sense when you look at less rich countries and see how much less popular iPhones are. It's only in America where people who aren't in poverty but rather deep into the lower class that will make sacrifices so they can buy an iPhone, or worse, pay $1600 over a two year payment plan and then UPGRADE after the plan is through. Americans are so terrified of being SEEN as poor, because they know how they vote for poor people to be treated.
Well said, and hence why I quoted Rage Against the Machine who later go on to say on a track for Sony's Godzilla movie no less:
Godzilla pure motherfucking filla'
Get your eyes on the real killa'
Despite being from the US, I will never understand this 'culture' and it seems so vapid and fake until you realize that is exactly what most people want out of their relationships as a whole: something so trite and cliche that fits in within the confines of a narrow attention span and is equally digestble on social media that signals to other like minded people in kind. The people who I see using phones as a status symbol are often the least economically stable I know: think children/teenagers or those older who simply have no other assets or investments to speak of.
I would assume though that phone cameras are damaged by higher frequency vibrations, a big component of which is speed and type of tyres/road condition
Declining to call it a motorcycle because the motor is small relative to other motorcycles is little more than snobbery, and it's a snobbery that discourages people from buying a (larger) motorcycle that fits their needs, because of a historic arbitrary distinction between small and large motorcycles that require separate licensing for large motorcycles; a distinction that should be eliminated either by applying licensing requirements uniformly to all motorcycles or uniformly eliminating the licensing requirements from all motorcycles.
Here, a scooter like that you can't even drive in a highway - restricting its use to a city makes it much safer.
Last time I looked at it small bikes, generally used by delivery drivers to be fair, vastly overshadowed any other motorcycle accidents.
On the same note death rates per vehicle on the road was lower for motorcycles than all other vehicle classes and a large portion of those deaths were passengers on a motorcycle and not the driver.
This was all from the mid 2010s though. The statistics showed more to me that wearing correct protection equipment significantly reduced your chance of dieing, the displacement of the engine or even the type of motorcycle had some impact but definitely wasn't a major factor.
Smaller bikes/scooters (you can drive them with a car license in my country if they are under 50cc) have a max top speed of 50km/h (31mph).
On the other hand, one of the most popular motorcycles (Yamaha MT-07) does 0-100km/h (0-60 mph) in under 4 seconds and can reach speeds of over 130 miles per hour. There is a lot that can go wrong if you are not careful. Also, it is almost twice as heavy.
If one wishes to take the perspective that licensure helps prevent injuries and death, then apply the licensure requirements to these lighter vehicles too. If one prefers the perspective that all such transport is inherently risky, and thus prioritize personal responsibility and assumption of risk, then let's get rid of the licensure requirements, which will surely help get more people out of their 4-wheelers, with knock-on improvements for the environment, traffic congestion, and parking. My problem is with the arbitrary distinction in the middle.
They require a licence to drive, but the licence tests aren't as thorough as the tests to drive a motorcycle.
At least in my country, it's not a question of engine size but of having a step-through frame. A Vespa with a 300cc engine would usually be called a motor scooter, a CB125R with a 125cc engine is a motorbike.
Of course, my country's parlance is wildly inconsistent. Some motor scooters are also known as 'mopeds' despite not having pedals. E-bikes have motors and pedals, and yet aren't called mopeds or motorbikes. The tax authority considers motor scooters to be motorbikes. Certain motorbike tax bands call the vehicle a 'bicycle'. E-scooters are scooters with motors, yet aren't called motor scooters. 'Bikers' refers to motorcyclists, and 'cyclists' to bicycle riders. And so on.
I don't think it's in any way arbitrary. There are speed, engine, and other differences, affecting skill levels required and potential lethality...
Why does that matter to the government? It requires skill to use a knife, and if it's mishandled it can cause severe bodily harm; should we require people to get a license to use a knife in their own kitchen? If it's because of the potential lethality to others, then surely we ought to require licensing for all motorbikes (including small motorbikes); what if a toddler wanders into the bike lane where these small-engine motorbikes are permitted?
> speed
Non-motorized cyclists can hit speeds of over 120 km/h (admittedly an extreme case, but still): https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/122... . Should we require licensing for non-motorized bicycles simply because the vehicle has the potential to hit a certain speed? Wouldn't it then make more sense to require licensure for anyone who travels faster than a certain speed, and for any two-wheeled vehicle to be registered and plated?
Again I concede that there are naturally differences between large- and small-engine motorcycles. My point is that regardless of which rubric you choose, whether it's safety, skill, whatever, the decision that a mechanical engine requires licensure but an electric one does not, or 125cc motorcycles require licensure but "electric bicycles" do not, wherever that line is drawn is there for historical reasons only, not because of the safety or skill rubric, and therefore is arbitrary, therefore is unjust, therefore should be reformed to be more consistent than just whatever we have today due to historical accident.
It doesn't. It matters to the law, which is a different thing from the government.
And it matters because it matters to society whether someone with insufficient training and testing rides a huge motorcycle, or a truck, or whatever. Especially something like a sports motorcycle which needs more skill than an average car, and is much easier to slip (as accidents stats tell).
>Non-motorized cyclists can hit speeds of over 120 km/h
Rarely and in extreme conditions. Big motorcycles can do it trivially.
The world cycle record is 130 km/h, under very special circumstances and for just 200m or so. The highest end of the speed pros usually achieve is (according to wiki) around 70 km/h, quite less than 120 km/h. Not to mention a motorcycle (especially the kind more heavily regulated) has much more weight than a bike, and thus much more momentum even for the same speed.
>It requires skill to use a knife, and if it's mishandled it can cause severe bodily harm; should we require people to get a license to use a knife in their own kitchen?
I'm pretty sure people are allowed to ride any size of motorcycle in their own kitches or their backyard even. It's when they ride them on the road, and this can kill others, that it gets to be a concern for the law.
The same holds for knives btw. Carrying a knife in the streets in many jurisdictions is considered an offense, similar to carrying a gun. It sure is in mine.
And in general, for all over the US I read "(...) there are often limits on knives or bladed weapons that may be carried. Most states regulate an individual’s ability to carry a knife based on the following characteristics of the knife itself: The type of knife, including the purpose in which it is typically used for; (...) The length of the blade.".
As this is the crux of your argument, please provide data showing how large motorcycles are so much more lethal for pedestrians compared to cars. Because all the statistics I'm familiar with (and I do take issue with them) show risk for the riders themselves, not for others.
I don't deny that, of course, if you hit a pedestrian in a 500cc motorcycle going 50 km/h then the pedestrian will certainly suffer major injuries if not death. The difference is that the rider will as well, unlike a 4-wheeler that wraps its driver in a roll cage, seat belt, and airbags. This mutually-assured destruction, I argue, causes motorcycle riders to generally be safer on the roads vis-a-vis pedestrians, and that this should hold true regardless of licensure.
it has a motor
behold: a motorcycle https://productnotes.com/uploads/default/optimized/2X/5/5313...
This is a motorcycle: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpoydU...
Also: Vibration spectrum and power distribution probably also make a Zuge difference (for the iphone's lens/autofocus mechanism)
Electric motorcycles are also really smooth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYCnHebwTCM
And it does work, I would have over 150 recorded swimming workouts (45 minutes to an hour each) on my Apple Watch SE.
What do I mean? In hardware manufacturing lines, if you guarantee water immersion, you actually do that test as part of manufacturing, either using real water or something known as "dryleak" where you gauge air displacement in a fitted and known volume fixture.
Apple and most phone manufacturers aren't going bother with that test since it's extra labor and time, so they instead live with never warranting it.
It doesn't take much to have a water ingress issue. Even a tiny tiny defect in the adhesive gasket gluing the phone together can lead to ingress.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AppleWatch/search/?q=water%20damage...
They'll argue (maybe rightfully so) that a water resistance rating is not the same as the pressures of swimming. Just dunking something does not do anything such as swimming strokes that could force water into the watch. I find it a little absurd that people won't wash dishes with a 100m resistant watch, but then again, I'm not sporting a 5 figure watch either.
Many threads with complaints that people are using their Apple Watches as intended and as marketed, but once there is a bit of water ingress, Apple will not cover the damage (outside of normal warranty period).
*but we don't recommend you use it beyond 40m and may degrade over time.
Worse than that. It was tested and as soon as you pass 40m, it gives a warning, stops displaying the depth and just tells you ASCEND. Once you are above 40m it functions again but the No Decompression Limit is no longer reliable, as it doesn't track the actual depth you were at, while >40m.
Anyone going deeper would be doing tech diving and would need to be using a proper dive computer.
> Always use a dampener with your iPhone when riding as shown. Use only with low-powered bikes and avoid prolonged use.
It always disappoints me regulators just let this kind of faux-disclaimer slide. This is just lying with your fingers crossed behind your back.
(sometimes people who take this pill start pooping and never stop pooping again for the rest of their lives which are thankfully rather short, and on a few occasions people have immediately burst into flames and started screaming in pain but their bodies refuse to die for some reason)
You should ask your doctor if girexamusib is right for you. *images of children wearing white clothing and running through wheat fields and blowing dandelion puff seeds into a beautiful sunset play while the tranquil music of heavens elevator plays softly in the background*
is incredibly terrible for all of the worst reasons.
(though to be fair to the other commenters, the vibration there is probably greatly reduced due to the fact of being more a scooter than a motorbike - being kept loosely on a holder instead of clamped also helps)
Nothing to say about the product, but man I needed to comment on the video that the product page shows. I think they did a fantastic job with it.
There was something utterly satisfying to me, about the detail of adding a "click" sound every time the image shows someone snapping a phone into its mount. I just assumed it as a natural and expected sound since the second instance when it happens.
In olden times, the former would make your phone wet via vibration (how left as an exercise to the reader) while the latter would attenuate or suppress or reduce vibration.
A damper [1] doth damp, dammit.
[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/damper
I eagerly await Steinway's new piano featuring a dampener pedal.
> dampen (v.) 1630s, "to dull or deaden, make weak" (force, enthusiasm, ardor, etc.), from damp (adj.). Meaning "to moisten, make humid" is recorded from 1827.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/dampener#etymonline_v_36691
> dampener (n.) > "one who or that which dampens,"
It's an older phrasing, but it checks out.
[0] https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/dampener-vs-damper
> How To Use Damper In A Sentence
The rain put a damper on our plans for a picnic in the park.
...
Examples Of Using Dampener In A Sentence
The rainy weather put a dampener on our outdoor plans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration_white_finger
I have a phone mount on my roadbike handlecars - one of the Quadlock ones - does anybody know if the road vibrations from cycling can cause as much damage as the motorbike?
If anything...I would have thought a fairly stiff road bike would have more vibrations than a motorbike?
It's the fact that a motorcycle will vibrate at a specific frequency for tens of minutes or hours at a time while driving.
On a bicycle it's more random and not uniform, unless you drive on a completely uniformly covered gravel road for an hour at a constant speed =)
If not, there's nothing vibration could break.