Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web (shimmer.care)
A quick recap before I dive into our new launch: Shimmer is an ADHD coaching service for adults. We took apart the traditionally expensive, inaccessible ADHD coaching offering ($300-600+/session) and redesigned it from first principles. You get matched with one of our expert ADHD coaches, meet weekly over video, and get supported throughout the week via text and with learning tools. This solution is special to me personally (and our community) because it doesn’t just give you “knowledge” or offer another “tool”—our coaches help you set realistic goals, take personalized steps towards it, and keep you accountable.
Today we’re excited to launch our most-request feature: Web.
Over the past 9 months, we learned (and iterated) a lot with our members and coaches. A few key challenges pointed to the need for a web version: (1) ADHD “object permanence” challenges (e.g. out of sight out of mind), we needed to be multi-platform so when you finish a task or goal or encounter a challenge, regardless of if you’re near your laptop or phone, you can check it off & ping your coach right away, (2) members used reflection modules (e.g. after each task, you’re prompted to reflect on what worked and didn’t work, and it informs your coach) more thoroughly than we originally anticipated, and web allows for deeper reflection and typing, (3) overarching coaching goals were often forgotten during the day-to-day, and the web makes it easier to use visual cues to keep goals top of mind for motivation, (4) many of our members struggle with phone addiction and driving members to the mobile app ended them up in Tiktok/IG, whereas the web app offers a focused environment to get in their “coaching zone”.
Our new web app was designed alongside over 1,200 members, 22 coaches, countless hours of testing and iterating. We’re excited (but nervous!) to unveil this new version. If you have ADHD (or think you do), we’d love for you to check out our platform and give us critical feedback (or positive reinforcement!). It’s a super streamlined and ADHD-friendly signup process and in honor of our web launch and back to school/work, the first month is 30% off.
Our pricing: $115/mo. for Essentials plan (15-min weekly sessions), $230/mo. for Standard plan (30-min weekly sessions), $345/mo. for Immersive plan (45-min weekly sessions); all plans additional 30% off first month, HSA/FSA-eligible.
We know these prices are expensive for many people with ADHD and we’re committed to bringing costs down over time. It’s more affordable than what many people are paying for coaches, but the fact that we’re relying on humans, and not going the “we can automate all this with AI” route, puts a floor on how low the costs can drop. That said, here are some actions we’re taking to drive down costs for those who need it: (1) we offer needs-based scholarships and aim to have 5% of members on them at any time, (2) we often run fully sponsored scholarships with our partners—over 40 full ride scholarships and 100 group coaching spots have been disbursed alongside Asian Mental Health Project, government of Canada, and more, and (3) we have aligned our coaching model alongside Health & Wellness Coaching, which is expected to be reimbursed in 2024. If you have ideas or expertise here, please reach out to me directly at chris@shimmer.care.
On behalf of our small but mighty & passionate Shimmer team, I’m excited for the Hacker News community to share your thoughts, feedback, and ideas. If you feel comfortable, I’d also love to hear your personal ADHD story and what has worked / hasn’t w...
282 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 227 ms ] threadCoaching works least effectively for those with severe comorbidities like depression/anxiety/bi-polar that are not concurrently being treated or at least do not significantly impair their day-to-day functions.
We have really extensive testimonials on our homepage (you can load more as well) but a few of my favorites are: (1) a 45-50 y/o man who got promoted after thinkng he would not ever get promoted again—now he is director level and manages dozens of reports and has a renewed sense of confidence in himself; (2) and 24-34 grad student who was able to find her dream job post-MBA after burning herself out at almost every other job she's had before and never feeling like she "fit"; her Shimmer coach helped her look at jobs that fit her unique ADHD, find ways to approach the job hunting process in a way that fit her brain, and then eventually secure that job.
Meaning "if our product doesn't work, it's really your fault"
Please please put a link to this information on the main site. Anything I'm half interested in using I do a cmd+F "Pricing" and if there aren't results I usually bail.
Also when I hit "Find my coach" and am redirected to the quiz, I just get a blank screen.
This service looks great, and I intend on using it.
That's a pretty specific thing to measure folks on
It's great to see they freely added the price. I suspect they're not guilted of anything above.
Hm, I'm not able to replicate the blank screen. For now you can bypass this section by going to app.shimmer.care and creating an account directly, but let me check in with my co-founder on the blank screen issue.
And awesome, glad you resonated! Let me know if I can help with finding the right coach! chris@shimmer.care
I appreciate you accommodating my request. Normally the cmd+F route gets me to a "Pricing" link at the bottom near things like "Careers" and whatnot, which is totally fine.
> Hm, I'm not able to replicate the blank screen. For now you can bypass this section by going to app.shimmer.care and creating an account directly, but let me check in with my co-founder on the blank screen issue.
https://imgur.com/a/zvQ72hT
Happens every time.
Again I appreciate the update + response. Best of luck with your service.
Also for the blank screen, I wasn't able to reproduce either but the quiz is an embedded Typeform. There may be a plugin/extension enabled on your browser that could be blocking it. What browser are you using and are you able to try viewing it on incognito?
Also, can we take the next step? If we do now treat ADHD as a brain energetics disorder, how do we treat it? Are drugs like Adderall or Ritalin sufficient based on this view?
The book "Mind and Tissue" by Ray Peat, available on LibGen (and amazon, for $200 used).
>Are drugs like Adderall or Ritalin sufficient based on this view?
From the text,
> the observation that drugs which stimulate the sympathetic or adrenergic nerves (ephedrine or caffeine, for example) will relieve the symptoms,
So yes, stimulant drugs can treat ADHD insofar as they cause a greater supply of energy to be delivered the frontal lobes. Needless to say that stimulants wear you out over time though. A more sustainable solution is to optimize for brain/body bioenergetics generally. You can read more on his website, raypeat.com.
I'm not a shill, the man is dead, I just think this information is far too important not to share vigorously. It's how I resolved my lifelong depression nearly effortlessly.
The somewhat higher rate of mental illness among higher-IQ people (according to some studies), to me, also points to an insufficiency of brain energy as the principal cause. A more energy-hungry brain will fail more readily under an even slightly faulty energy supply.
Also some of our members (for various reasons) can't or won't take medication (which is a whole other conversation) so any behavioral or natural solutions I love to be aware of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb2F8xLQMvw
And yes, I agree. ADHD is not a "mental" problem, and cannot be "coached" away. ADHD Coaching is one part of a greater pie (e.g. I personally use both medication and ADHD coaching, and a mix of productivity tools). What ADHD Coaching uniquely offers, is to work with what you have, create systems around you and your life, and to get support from someone who gets it.
However, as you mentioned, it doesn't "solve" ADHD or "coach it away", that is not the purpose for sure!
I can personally (and our members too) attest to the fact that there definitely are benefits, perhaps not for every single person and every single coach out there. For me, I've become more productive as I work to manage my energy, align my days with my circadian rhythm, I've learned new techniques around time blocking, my coach has kept me accountable to things that are hard for me to pull through on, and my general quality of life has improved. Could I have gotten this a different way, on my own? Sure, most definitely. Tons of alternatives including self learning and experimentation! That route was just personally very hard for me.
(To be clear: I'm not recommending Shimmer; the fact that they mention positive psychology is a red-flag for me).
1. Incorporating things from previous research that are relatively uncontentious (e.g. flow
2. Tainted by academic fraud (e.g. Critical Positivity Ratio)
Given that you can have #1 without defining a new field of psychology, I associate the field of Positive Psychology with #2.
Our key approach has been providing a mix of psychoeducational coaching interventions to enhance positive attributes in combination with other help our members can obtain - and not on short-term prescribed psychotherapies or medication as a sole mode of intervention.
It's like being sober versus being attached at the hip to Narcotics Anonymous. Sure, it helps people, but it's much better, if possible, to not even need it.
It's great to learn how to get by without meds. That's important, and the meds aren't a magic wand that will miraculously make you happy and productive without any lifestyle changes. But oh, wow, what a difference those meds can make!
I got meds with 37.
Did a degree in CS and was successfully self-employed for years until that.
Everything worked out okay-ish, but meds are a game changer. It really felt like I was playing "life" on hard mode until then.
I was 50th percentile on the CAT in 2nd grade, unmedicated.
I was 90th percentile on the CAT in 3rd grade, medicated.
Figure out how much catch up and passing I did in 1 year... 1 year.
I've gone on to have a nice successful career and life. But without meds and help... No way.
Not because I became smarter, but because I could concentrate for the time IQ tests take.
Brains are complicated stuff so everyone is going to find a different ideal treatment path - some people can manage with exercise alone and have a strict morning regiment, some people find medication to be the perfect pills - others use a mix of both. Trying to train yourself to not be ADHD and maintain completely through self-discipline is indeed hard mode.
1. There are some people that respond terribly to normal ADHD meds and they were part of the reason that ADHD used to be divided into the ADHD and ADD labels with the older version of ADHD labeled persons usually responding poorly to standard medications like methylphenidate.
A good friend almost certainly has ADHD (I say that as someone on the spectrum) which impacts their daily life in a negative way, and I'm just curious if meds could help.
Of course would need to get a diagnosis first but they haven't pursued that yet, and I'm wondering if this could serve as motivation.
Now I can see that a thing needs to be done next week, and hey, I don’t have anything else more pressing at the moment, so I’ll go ahead and start on it.
Unless you’ve experienced both sides of that, it’s hard to understand how people on the other side of it go through life. Me: “Am I the only person in the world who can’t just go what I’m supposed to do before it’s an emergency?” Everyone else: “He had 3 weeks to do this thing. How lazy must he be?”
You don't say.
I think there's some important things to say about neuroscience and ADHD, but I don't think Ray Peat is the authority you want to quote about this subject.
What is "undergo our Shimmer Coach Training program developed alongside our clinical advisors Dr. Amin Azzam (MD, MA), Dr. Anil Chacko (PhD), and our Head ADHD Coaching Psychologist Xenia Angevi"?
Are they doctors or not? Psychologists or not? AI or not? There is so much mumbo jumbo and scams and pseudo medicine in psychology related issues, that this sentence simply reads as "yeah trust us, some of us are doctors, people who are doing the work, are not".
Also amount of usage of word "coaching" is abusive. Are coaches respectable? Do they have credentials? Why coaches and not psychologist or psychotherapist?
Overall though, we use PhDs/psychiatrists/master-level coaches to supervise, create protocols, trainings, etc. and use coaches to deliver. (Not AI). Our coaches are either credentialed by ICF (International Coaching Federation) like BetterUp or Ginger or Lyra's coaches, NB-HWC (National Board - Health & Wellness Coaching), or have masters-level psych degree and go through our training.
Happy to expand on any of the above!
You are not providing licensed medical services. Just come out and say it, since it's true. Yes, saying that will cause people to distrust you, and well it should. You are right about there being a shortage, but there is no substitute for a real doctor.
That said, being upfront about it instead of trying to beat around the bush or make excuses doesn't help you. It only serves to make you even more untrustworthy. Your attempts to obscure the fact that you aren't providing real medical service only suggests that you know in your heart that what you are providing is not the same. If you believed your "coaches" were good enough, you wouldn't have to do anything at all to hide the fact that they were not real doctors. You could just come out and say it.
However, we do a lot of work to work with the right experts (which include clinicians, psychiatrists, etc.) to ensure what we do it safe, follows best practice, is science-backed, and is effective. And we definitely want to highlight this work that has been done and the importance of it.
We will update the language to better reflect this immediately.
In which case I personally find the phrase "All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals" to be quite deceptive.
What decides who gets what coach? Is it a triage based on symptom severity or first-come-first-serve?
Original wording: All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals* or have extensive experience with ADHD & undergo our Shimmer Coach Training program
> Overall though, we use PhDs/psychiatrists/master-level coaches to supervise, create protocols, trainings, etc. and use coaches to deliver. (Not AI). Our coaches are either credentialed by ICF (International Coaching Federation) like BetterUp or Ginger or Lyra's coaches, NB-HWC (National Board - Health & Wellness Coaching), or have masters-level psych degree and go through our training.
If the licensed or certified mental health professionals aren't actually hands-on with your clients, it's awfully misleading to say that all of your coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals or blah blah blah. If you were being honest, you'd skip the nonsense about using mental health professionals as coaches and just say that your coaches go through your training program and are supported by mental health professionals--you know, the actual truth.
You've certainly nailed the best way to articulate "we haven't worked out how to best phrase our bullshit to fly under the radar" though.
You are providing medical services, trying to claim you aren't is absurd. Changing the wording to claim you aren't to avoid legal liability is exactly the kind of deception people are calling you out on.
> You are not providing licensed medical services. Just come out and say it, since it's true.
If a fitness trainer started throwing around things like "clients reported reduction of sciatica symptoms" you would of course assume they are licensed physical therapists and that you are treating sciatica. They could just as easily say "pain management through exercise" and not get caught in that kind of credential limbo.
> HSA/FSA-eligible.
Try harder?
psychologists, mental health therapists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, pharmacists, and so on, do not practice medicine - but the services they provide can be paid for with HSA and FSA money
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_health_professions
There's nothing wrong with stating the objective reality that the cost of Shimmer is HSA/FSA-eligible. HSA/FSA-eligibility is directly relevant to one of Shimmer's key goals, making ADHD coaching accessible to people who can't afford traditional coaching. Using HSA/FSA funds brings down the overall cost significantly, so it's going to be a factor when budgeting. It isn't even close the same thing as snake oil treatments claiming to be "FDA cleared." Consumers may not realize that "FDA cleared" is an absolutely meaningless phrase, but I think we can agree that most adults know the difference between a condom and a licensed medical professional dispensing FDA-approved medication.
"HSA/FSA-eligible" is a legitimate, accurate phrase to describe the services Shimmer provides. Plus, anyone who has a HSA/FSA has most likely received education or literature about it through the company providing it for them (typically their employer). They're not reading this post thinking, "Since I can pay for this with the account that I use to buy sunscreen and band-aids, I will surely see a physician and get drugs." Personally, I thought, "Gee, I wish I had a HSA/FSA so I could use it to pay for this health-related service." All brains are different, especially ADHD brains. It's unhelpful to assume they'll all draw the same false conclusion as you did.
You can argue medical vs healthcare or whatever semantics you want but if it quacks like a duck it's a duck.
You might get lucky with your golf coach. There are people that went to medical school for that though. Your choice.
Positive human interaction goes a long way.
The notion that ADHD 'really is' a neurological disorder and 'really isn't' anything else misunderstands the purpose of psychiatric diagnostic categories like ADHD in the first place. Psychiatrists and psychologists aren't in the business of ontology, and clinicians especially aren't.
Take it from someone who has it: this is a stupidly narrow way to think about ADHD.
Executive function theory, delayed rewards theory, everywhere you go, when the axioms of the presenter changes, so does the "root cause" of ADHD change.
Granted it's common for these problems to pop up every where in online media the past five years or so...
... but when Law and Order SVU episodes from the 90s have more empirical cause-and-effect rigor to their detective stories than half the opinions-masquerading-as-theories in the ADHD space, then I find his skepticism understandable and I empathize with it.
I wish it were not true. I deeply, deeply crave a scientist in a lab coat to point to a chain of chemicals that describe the problem in concrete unarguable terms. The smoking gun, if you will. Something Feynman and Einstein (so to speak) could analyze, criticize and come up sucessfully defeated in attempting to prove the theory wrong, admitting the shown evidence and resulting theory is true.
We see instead research universities pouring money and big minds into Diffusion Tensor Imaging, doing hundreds/thousands of high resolution scans on kids' brains who obviously have ADHD and not only being unable to find the root cause of the problem, but they cannot even show a difference in the data that relates to ADHD at all.
Wtf is going on...
It is probably deeply impolite for me to say this, because I'm directly challenging your livelihood and it's 'more good' if I just ignore your website and move on.
I just want to push back on the notion that 'this is a neurological disorder' is the only acceptable or useful way to think about ADHD.
To your point, I think it's clear that the world hasn't really figured out what ADHD is yet. That is, we haven't figured out the best way to think or talk about it, let alone treat it.
That's why I think it's important to hold onto that label with a light touch, and an understanding that our conception of the problem is likely to change a lot in the future. The 'real core' that we do know about ADHD is in the common struggles of people, situated as they are, who have ADHD-like symptoms and experiences. Those are worth addressing with anything that helps, and if you have those struggles yourself you know you can't wait for an ideal 'final answer' from scientific or other authorities to try to improve your life.
All that said it's way easier to be comfortable with non-commercial, community-oriented efforts of people sharing their experiences and trying to figure out what works for them in an ad-hoc way. Companies offering solutions to people, especially people who fear that their ADHD-ish struggles might cost them their livelihood or are destabilizing their lives, do have to prove themselves trustworthy and effective somehow and there's a lot of room for scammy bullshit with something like this. I don't disagree with the skepticism so much as the scientism and medicalism.
Unless they changed the onboarding process, it’s made obvious to the user what it is.
Not saying that's what this is doing, but that's what this whole industry does. Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough health care providers.
I would argue that most therapist are incompetent, undertrained, and potentially more damaging than helpful. Of course, there are absolute diamonds in the roughs, but they are few and far between in my (and many others') experience.
It's interesting how I was downvoted. I am just curious, I am not saying one or the other is "true". I have no idea, I am not a professional. However, I do think it is a relevant question to ask and discussion to have.
I am just looking into this as someone who only in his 40s discovered that he had significant childhood trauma that he was not in any way aware of, and my mother too which is something we never talked about, and that my symptoms and my "suffering" has finally almost disappeared now that I'm doing proper trauma therapy. I would have claimed I had "great parents" and "no childhood trauma" in the same way as you, and rejected that theory, if you had asked me a few years ago.
I also want to add that the scientific-ness of it or not doesn't invalidate it as an explanatory device in your personal journey - they are on orthogonal axes.
To pick a random study of many: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29086104/
"Children with ADHD were more likely than controls to have ever experienced a traumatic event (27 vs 16%; OR: 1.99; 95% CI 1.21, 3.27). This difference remained significant in the adjusted model (OR: 1.76, 95% CI 1.03, 3.01) accounting for child factors (age and gender) and family socio-demographic factors (parent age, parent high school completion and single parent status). Among those with ADHD, trauma-exposed children had higher parent-reported ADHD severity and more externalizing problems than non-exposed children, however, this effect attenuated in adjusted model. Children with ADHD were more likely to have experienced a traumatic event than controls. The high prevalence of trauma exposure in our sample suggests that clinicians should evaluate for trauma histories in children presenting with ADHD. "
Or another: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27816036/
"Childhood Trauma Exposure is common in Substance Use Disorder patients and associated with adult ADHD but not with the persistence of childhood ADHD into adulthood. These findings suggest that the increased rate of adult ADHD in SUD patients with CTE is not the consequence of a negative effect of CTE on the persistence of childhood ADHD into adulthood, but a direct expression of the high rate of childhood ADHD in SUD patients with CTE."
Or this one: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19337826/
"Controlling for demographic variables, comorbid disorders, and ADHD severity, we noted significant associations between lifetime depression and environmental adversities, including victimization trauma, parent-child conflict, and behaviorally-independent negative life events. "
Brain stuff - it just ain't simple.
When I'm hearing now is "ADHD has a correlation with traumatic events." What I was hearing before was "If you don't think your ADHD is a result of trauma, you need to dig deeper."
It goes to show you that what's being written isn't always how folks interpret it.
If the comment was intended to say that some people may have ADHD like symptoms due to childhood trauma and that might be resolved by working that out it was quite poorly worded - to me at least it read as coding all ADHD as treatable by therapy and environmentally caused and that is simply untrue for me. There may be a certain amount of defensiveness in our community in particular because for a long time ADHD was written off as behavioral issue causing laziness rather than being treated as a true neurologically divergent condition. I was diagnosed about twenty two years ago and I've seen a lot of FUD around my condition and the ineffectiveness of ritalin and other stimulants - they very well may have been mis-prescribed in the 90s but for a decent chunk of us it has been highly impactful.
see e.g. "The hidden links between mental disorders" https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-020-00922-8 available on sci-hub
"Since the 1950s, psychiatrists have used an exhaustive volume called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, currently in its fifth edition. It lists all the recognized disorders, from autism and obsessive–compulsive disorder to depression, anxiety and schizophrenia. Each is defined by symptoms. The inherent assumption is that each disorder is distinct, and arises for different reasons. However, even before the DSM-5 was published in 2013, many researchers argued that this approach was flawed. “Any clinician could have told you that patients had not read the DSM and didn’t conform to the DSM,” says Hyman, who helped to draft the manual’s fifth edition. Few patients fit into each neat set of criteria. Instead, people often have a mix of symptoms from different disorders. Even if someone has a fairly clear diagnosis of depression, they often have symptoms of another disorder such as anxiety. “If you have one disorder, you’re much more likely to have another,” says Ted Satterthwaite, a neuropsychiatrist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.
This implies that the way clinicians have partitioned mental disorders is wrong. Psychiatrists have tried to solve this by splitting disorders into ever-finer subtypes. “If you look at the way the DSM has evolved over time, the book gets thicker and thicker,” says Satterthwaite. But the problem persists — the subtypes are still a poor reflection of the clusters of symptoms that many patients have. As a result, the world’s largest funder of mental-health science, the US National Institute of Mental Health, changed the way it funded research. [...]"
It is, however, very true that they can look the same. I work with kids who have been through trauma and it is only on the order of years since people started recognizing that in these kids, many ADHD symptoms were caused by trauma and could be reduced or go away entirely with trauma-specific therapy.
What I meant was that a kid who doesn't have any background of trauma can still have ADHD, but does not have PTSD, and no amount of therapy for childhood trauma will help their ADHD symptoms. That's my point - that there is overlap in symptoms but they are still different problems, that require different treatment.
"You didn't have childhood trauma you say? Sounds just like something somebody who did have childhood trauma would say!"
Like what the hell are you supposed to say to something like this?
"There is a theory that claims everyone who has ADHD has pink hair." - "I don't have pink hair." - "Are you sure? Did you check?" - "Yes, I did."
Actually, this kind of thing is exactly what you learn in trauma therapy to watch out for, take note, and investigate. You call it "triggers".
Nowhere in this thread did I claim that the theory is proven. Just that it is out there, has a big following, and is also actively being investigated by the research community. I do think that it is worth discussing, which I tried to do in ways that should not offend anyone.
Also, very likely what we have here is a misunderstanding of what we agree to call "trauma", or "adverse childhood experiences" (and more importantly, what they have meant for a little child that went through them).
I didn't say I find this offensive, I said "I just hate this sort of thing". That implies annoyance and disdain, not offense.
> There is a theory that claims everyone who has ADHD has pink hair." - "I don't have pink hair." - "Are you sure? Did you check?" - "Yes, I did."
> Actually, this kind of thing is exactly what you learn in trauma therapy to watch out for, take note, and investigate. You call it "triggers".
I'm confused what point you're making with these two paragraphs. That example back and forth is a great example of what sort of thing I meant when I said "I just hate this sort of thing". I would suggest that if you don't find the first interlocutor in that dialogue to be really annoying, then you're the weird one, not the person who already knows they don't have pink hair and really did not need to check.
If asking someone with non-pink hair whether they've checked the color of their hair is indeed an important part of training for trauma therapy, then I'm skeptical of those training programs. (But I doubt this is actually the case, and think it's more likely that it's an incorrect representation.)
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Emojis everywhere, boxes, Intercom, sign up to the newsletter, animations, confusing wordings, multiple colors for the text. I doubt the author has a grasping of ADHD.
Many of our members and team need the emojis for the visual relation but I definitely see your point. I will tone down the emojis and make the newsletter show up only at the end of the article. I'll also send this to a content editor for the confusing wordings, etc.! If there are any specific examples, don't hesitate to let me know.
I would also personally appreciate a more neutral professional tone to writing but it's important to get a wider understanding of your audience before over tuning your presentation.
1. (And if you really want to engage me put hyphens everywhere - I do mean everywhere... but that's just me.)
Yes, I hear your point on neutral tone as well, I'm a bit dramatic at times.
I am the same with brackets. I use brackets so often-I type them then delete them (or at least reduce them to a "normal" amount) before hitting send, usually.
We'll look into this for sure—I'd love a confetti mode.
Do you? It can be hurtful to tell someone they "aren't ADHD enough".
First line of the article:
> I was diagnosed last year & wasn’t able to find an affordable, quality ADHD coach
ADHD people might like the animations, emojis, and colors, and might not read a long boring plaintext article linearly from start to finish. Everyone has different preferences though...
Personally I didn't find anything confusing or distracting about the article, and I felt like I could jump between random sections that look interesting (where the colors, emojis, and animations draw me in to different topics).
The author can have ADHD, but not have a grasping of how to solve this. One doesn't preclude the other.
Keep in mind they are the ones trying to sell a ADHD solution. Cutting off on visual and auditory distractions is very 101. It doesn't inspire lot of trust if they don't grasp that. Even if they all have ADHD for real.
Therapy helped for me until it didn't and then medication did and still does. That's just me. My nephew struggles with medications. It's so easy just to get an initial reaction with mental health issues, and then want to evangelize whatever stimulated that reaction, but this stuff is nuanced. There's all kinds of variables commonly shared and some not so common.
Anyway, be cautious of telling people what they grasp with personal health issues, they likely just don't grasp your particular flavor. But with regard to this website, I'd be cautious in general.
It reeks of excited evangelizing done by someone who's way of interacting with the world is business and computers.
People with ADD understand why they shouldn't distract others, but theory and practice are poles apart, even by academic standards. Seeing tangents in text is a good indication they have an accurate diagnosis.
It was the wildest and easiest conversation I've ever had in my life.
And yeah, I definitely understand what you mean when you say it’s wild and easy. I don’t know if I can go back to talking with normal people lol.
Does anyone know if there is a dating app for people with adhd? I’m curious if I have this kind of connection with other people as well or if it’s just her.
I don’t believe a virtual assistant can cook, nor clean, nor anything else physical.
1. Clean up your place JUST enough to get some cleaning people in. (Yes, you can hire people to clean the apartment. Even if you are SITTING IN IT.)
2. Cooking: Find a meal service you like, and order. Honestly there's many good ones, we've been using Top Chef.
3. Get all your bills on auto-pay against your credit card. This will also make sure you are never late on your bills.
Money is merely potential energy. If you need to convert it into real energy... do it.
That's a neat way to put it!
That maybe sounds asymmetric and unfair, but though I'm healthy now, I've been in situations in the past where I couldn't even dress myself and she took care of me. It's a lifetime partnership. Workload doesn't need to be perfectly symmetric at all times. Besides, when I lived alone before getting married, I also paid all the bills and did all the cooking and cleaning myself, so it's not like this added work.
Congratulations, you are just like every other human on the planet. We really need to stop passing off regular human traits as medical disorders.
>...I am so down in a hole...
which as another commenter said, sounds like depression.
Besides, medical diagnosis advances with time and better understanding, and some "regular human traits" turn out to be symptoms of problems we didn't previously understand. Yes, not everything is a disorder, but an argument that amounts to "in my day we just got on with it" isn't very helpful either.
Having spent years battling through medical services and alternatives, and doing self work, and being in community to handle this, it's such a breath of fresh air to see it being done well and in celebration of what ADHD can be.
(2) makes me laugh because these things don’t take 2 fucking months. An initial protocol for a study, maybe. In reality such studies take years and years - I’ve done it with surgical skill development training program validation.
My advice would be to conform your thing to an existing body of knowledge and build your arguments on that - that’s what we did. Congrats on the language in your answers though. Why don’t you tell us a bit more about tying up those “loose ends” and “infrastructure for data collection etc.”
(2) I'm not saying that it takes 2 months. I'm saying we will begin enroling folks into the pilot in 2 months. We have been planning for a while now. Also, we are not trying to plan a randomized control trial nor prove medical outcomes, so our pilots are different.
Thank you for your advice! Would love to learn more about what you're building!
Re: "loose ends": we're currently conferring with adhd experts in academia and medicine to choose the right outcome metrics to study, make sure they have the right (recent) peer reviewed literature, incorporate them into our processes/tech such that the UI/UX is friendly for folks with ADHD, etc. The outcome metric(s) are the most challenging part right now because we want it to be aligned with existing body of knowledge (as you mentioned), yet reflect what we're working on (most aligned with Health & Wellness Coaching and Acceptance Commitment Training)—e.g. we're not looking for simply measuring symptoms, more so impairment and life quality. And for "data collection", we're also working with our clinical advisor on the minimum amount of data (and what variables) we'll need to ask from our members for the study. Happy to elaborate on any of the above and our process, where we're at, etc., offline! chris@shimmer.care
These are my experiences: With our product I found several experienced and reputable professors who assisted us. They did not take any money and they did not put their fingers on the scale. Their researchers were paid out of their budgets and we had to stay away from it as much as possible. The research took well over 2 years, and many of the results did not conclusively verify that our product really works. Instead they were broadly insightful on what could be modified our changed about it. Hence the "these things don't take 2 fucking months".
What I really mean is that I think they're full of shit. And they're laying it on pretty thick instead of being honest and humble about what they've got - which is an early stage monthly subscription coaching service/community. In response to questions they're laying it even thicker with even more happy-go-lucky obtuse language.
I find this repulsive because I have ADHD. This presentation can really take advantage of how the condition works. Feelings of community are something we have a tendency to be enamored by in the short-term. On the other hand I got my help in no small part thanks to participating in conversations in places like this one here, so there might be folks with this problem reading these comments. And this is very important - there are psychiatrists, experienced therapists and qualified IRL coaching that you should go to get proper help. It's worth the money. This help is not going to come from (young) people who say they have all the answers along with a business model just 3 months after they've gotten their own diagnosis.
Man I'm glad I don't live in the US. Healthcare for a profit is gross. Go get some government funding and release your service for more accessible prices.
Conversely, most US hospitals are nonprofits and US insurance companies' profits are capped by ACA. But that doesn't stop them from being expensive.
> You're in the right place! 41% of Shimmer members rated 5 for the impact ADHD has on their lives, just like you. Shimmer is the newest way to work with your ADHD: You'll build skills and implement systems that are catered to YOUR life.
or
> Thank you for sharing. Shimmer members work on similar challenges and 86% have improved within 3 months.
it evokes an image in my mind of a guy holding open a trench coat saying "I got what you need."
At the same time, as someone who has spent a lot of time developing insight into the spectrum of disorders around emotional and internal regulation trying to understand my own life and mind, the workflow was helpful. It showed me that I'm not the target audience for your product. That's OK though, different strokes for different folks.
Best of luck and I hope you're able to support people and do good in the world. :+1:
I'm working on something in the same space but for autism and social skills. I'd love to hear more about how you went through the process for HSA/FSA eligibility.
Umm, am I missing something? It reads like "web access" is your unique selling point? Weird...
one of the scummier ads i've been shown is for "happyo", after digging in, it's just a collection of some lame ass planner apps. it costs $3 for the first week, but then jumps up to $67.99 for the next 3 months. to me, what they're doing is predatory.
my 2 cents is just go through some telehealth platform and find a therapist who specializes in ADHD that is covered by your insurance. if your copay is $25 for an HOUR session.... then 1 visit a week is only $100/mo. and if you want to go "immersive", schedule 3 visits a week lol
Unfortunately ADHD-specialized therapists are few and far between, especially once you layer in insurance. We are working on creating recommendations & databases of other ADHD-specialized helping professions like therapists to informally connect our members to when they need that!
With my hamster brain, I saw a wall of text at the top of this page, clicked the link, a wall of text on the landing page, even the title is too much information to digest. I literally have no idea what this thing does, and I won't allocate any effort in diving deeper. Focus is precious, I don't give that away easily.
I don't want to make assumptions, but this seems it has been done and designed by someone that has no idea how ADHD works.
Here's the ideal landing page for a product like this tailored for us: a clear tagline, 3 bullet points, pricing, and a FAQ section. That's it. Anything else is completely wasted on us.
People with ADHD like me don't read, they skim for anchor points. Even under the magical effect of amphetamines, unless I am deeply engaged, reading one sentence after the other is asking too much, especially since I learned to extract a ton of information from skimming and by the shape of things on a page. 80% of prose is filler after all.
In any case, good luck and I hope this help reaches those that need it and cannot afford focus in pill form.
I also got diagnosed as an adult but though things started making sense when I went through the evaluations it has taken years of conscious thought to unravel my difficulties and even start to see what I should do and avoid doing because of it.
Personally I just can't find myself trusting a service like this unless it has strong connections to ongoing research or as part of treatment by professionals.
But I could really use a coach. I need someone to help me stick to and maintain my to-to list and/or help me write reminders but I'd really like them to really understand ADHD and be able to spot thoughts and behaviors and help me do well.
I've found some great paycholigists can do this, and I think it's very very rare among the rest of the population.
I have ADHD and am, and always have been, a reader and writer. Once I get locked in on something, I have trouble refocusing my attention elsewhere.
I work with individuals with ADHD who regularly point out that I have provided too much text for them to process.
We each have our own unique challenges in this, and recognizing that helps strengthen the community as a whole IMO.
It is presented as having an evidence base with trained clinicians, but then the T+Cs state: 'Coaches are not trained or licensed medical professionals and are not qualified to diagnose, treat or manage any healthcare conditions, including behavioural health conditions.'
It makes me really sad to see so many companies like this - the services are always hugely expensive and target vulnerable people.
[1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
I'm bombarded with ads from ADHD apps since my diagnosis and I have tried many. None, none at all, have helped me. It's praying on the weak.
[1] (a) you acknowledge and understand that Coaches are not trained or licensed as medical professionals, and you agree to not request that Coaches provide you with any medical or healthcare advice or guidance, and (b) you agree to not rely upon any information provided to you by Coaches, content received through the Services or other Members when making important lifestyle, health, financial or relationship decisions.
I'm sorry nothing has worked for you so far—I had similar experiences when I was diagnosed. If you're willing to, I'd love to do a free consultation with you to see if we (or any other program our coaches know of) can help! chris@shimmer.care
In terms of cost, we do try our best to keep costs as affordable as possible and have a needs-based financial aid program. We also do a lot of scholarship sponsorships whenever we can with our community partners. We hope to do more in the future (and some are coming in October!)
Is this a better price than a licensed therapist? Yes
Is this a more practical solution than what you might get? Yes
But it just feels ethically wrong to promote your services to people who are "undiagnosed" or "think they have" ADHD. This is exactly what social media is doing today in the sense of trying to convince you have something because you happen to engage in said content.
I mean just look at the eligibility:
- Adults 18+
- No formal diagnosis required
- Smartphone with internet access
- No suicidal ideation with plan and/or intent
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/29/well/mind/tiktok-mental-i...
Good luck finding a licensed therapist who has bookings or availability. In Seattle I have had almost 0 luck over multiple years, and I have talked to many other people who have had the exact same amount of luck. The very few therapists around here who do specialize in ADHD either specialize in children, or they are so booked up they don't even bother with a wait list.
Mind you this is for cash payments, if you want insurance to cover care you are completely out of luck no matter how good your insurance is.
• Big shortage of providers
• Providers see taking insurance is like pulling teeth because they never want to pay and why should they because they can get a full appointment book from cash patients alone, due to the shortage.
So things like therapy become completely out of reach unless you're very wealthy, or if you've gotten to the point that you are desperate to go into ruinous debt, trading one problem for another one.
If so many people need mental health treatment, then I think it's a more gigantic sign that our society is absolutely toxic and FUBAR.
I had reasonable lucky but ymmv.
Not affiliated/etc.
Sorry about the rant…
So yeah, there’s a fucking mental health crisis and no one seems to want to do anything about it.
I thought it was just being a hyperactive kid — that wasn’t me. But then I learned about all the symptoms as an adult. Yup, I’ve got ‘em all, like friggen ash catchem. I feel like a lot of adults failed me here but I’m not blaming anyone, even my mom. She had the best intentions but didn’t trust the “medical industrial complex” as she called it.
Somehow I’ve managed all this time by placing myself in environments where my executive function isn’t impaired (I dunno if that’s even the correct terminology), but now I’m in a job where I can barely function leading people to get upset with me, and I don’t know what to do. I’ve been trying to get a diagnosis for over a year, and fiiiiiinally I have something on the books for November. It’ll be over $1000 out of pocket and I have excellent insurance. Top notch.
Anyway, this is just to say keep fighting the good fight. Don’t know if I’ll use your service but I’ll consider it after I get my diagnosis.
As someone that has been treated for over a decade, I swear this combo is perhaps better than the treatments. Not initially, for there is a "honeymoon" period of course, but definitely over the longer term.
I'd go back to the combo if it weren't for the legal and social issues that come with it.
Do not let me discourage you by any means. I am just some random person with an n=1 experience. I truly hope you get the help you need, and that you find something that works even better.
I’ve quit weed more or less (became a daily thing, now just occasionally). Today what I’m doing is exercising (a lot) and this is really helping me. But I do go back to the weed pen every now and then, and there’s nothing that makes me feel more focused and capable than that first hit (is that how normal people feel all the time?).
But the problem I have with it is it plugs me up and I also am driven to eat like shit. So I’ve gotta figure out the right balance still.
All I could think while looking for a little mental health support this past year as a relatively wealthy and high functioning person was "god, what in the actual hell do people who are a lot sicker and a lot poorer than me do?". Of course the tragic answer is "things just go really badly for them".
1. "I see them all in the same light unfortunately of profiteering in various ways around the incompetent medical system the US has."
You're right, it is unfortunate that you see them all as profiteering off of the failures of the American medical system. As you've noted, the issue here is your choice not to look for nuance or independently evaluate each service.
2. "Is this a better price than a licensed therapist?"
Shimmer has been very clear every step of the way that coaching is not the same thing as — or a substitute for — therapy. For some people, therapy isn't necessary. For others, like me, therapy isn't enough. Coaching fills in the gaps and covers areas that aren't necessarily a great use of time in therapy. In my case, I use therapy to dig into major mental health issues (MDD and PTSD, primarily). I use coaching to help me figure out how to overcome executive functioning barriers and prioritize day-to-day tasks. Both are incredibly helpful in different ways.
3. "It just feels ethically wrong to promote your services to people who are 'undiagnosed' or 'think they have' ADHD."
Have you ever tried to get an ADHD diagnosis in the US? Until recently, testing was virtually impossible for many Americans to access because of scarcity and cost. I was initially quoted $1,700 for an ADHD evaluation from an out-of-network provider, and that was after calling around to numerous places that took insurance, all of which were booked up indefinitely and required referrals (which not everyone's PCP will provide for ADHD testing). I got lucky and found a $500 option, which was then treated as "unofficial" by some prescribers. Finally, I got an "official" diagnosis from an online testing service (unrelated to Shimmer) for $150. I'm incredibly fortunate to have had access to the $650 it cost me to get a diagnosis, along with medical and therapy providers who supported me along the way. Others are less privileged. Do those people not deserve help simply because they can't access a formal diagnosis?
4. "This is exactly what social media is doing today in the sense of trying to convince you you have something because you happen to engage in said content."
Shimmer isn't in the business of telling people they have ADHD or handing out stimulants to any random undiagnosed person who asks. If you take a few moments to look up Shimmer's website and social media, you'll see that they're clearly not aiming to convince people they have ADHD. Each potential client meets with one of the founders (or, I assume, another qualified team member) to discuss their specific situation and needs. If they're a good fit for one of those coaches, they're allowed to sign up and begin coaching. On the off chance that someone did fall through the cracks and begin coaching despite not having ADHD, and their coach didn't notice it right away, then one of two things might happen. Either they'd leave because ADHD coaching isn't suitable for them, or they'd continue because a lot of what happens in ADHD coaching is helpful for all kinds of people with executive dysfunction and trouble focusing.
5. "I mean just look at the eligibility"
"Eligibility" requirements are a bare minimum. One can easily infer from the content Shimmer creates that its services aren't intended (or useful) for all adults with smartphones and internet access.
6. Your link to an article titled "Teens Turn to TikTok in Search of a Mental Health Diagnosis"
Take another look at the eligibility requirements you posted. Shimmer is for adults only. Yes, technically people ages 18 and 19 have ages in the "teens," but they are legally and developmentally considered adults capable of making informed, reasoned decisions about their health. An adult seeking out ADHD one-on-one ...
You don't have to 'actually have' ADHD (whatever that means!) to benefit from advice, habits, or practices typically leveraged by ADHDers. You just have to have a similar enough struggle that works in a similar enough way that those techniques help you somewhat. Whether you have ADHD matters way less than whether those things help you.
That said, idk how to really evaluate for-profit companies orienting themselves around the ADHD label to provide services along those lines as opposed to freely associating online communities or whatever.
But the truth is that just like with an actual therapist (or medication) you actually have to evaluate the efficacy of the treatment for yourself. There actually isn't a formula for treating ADHD, and it's not something you can just hand off to someone else. In that respect, services like this are no different from their more authoritative counterparts in psychiatry or psychology.
> This is exactly what social media is doing today in the sense of trying to convince you have something because you happen to engage in said content.
Not quite, imo. The TikTok phenomenon is decidedly less practical (that is, less about doing anything) and more identitarian. It's about asserting membership in an informal group and differentiating yourself from others. It's 'finding yourself' like teens and young adults have always done laden so heavily with (sloppy use of) medicalizing language and a tendency to essentialize, run a bit amok. It's also innocent stuff, like in-jokes about the catharsis of finding a suitable label, of discovering that your struggles aren't totally idiosyncratic but 'a thing'.
But 'if you think you might have ADHD, check this thing out' isn't at all the same thing as 'if you laughed at this meme, you have ADHD'.
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2023/05/23/surgeon-general-is...
I don't have ADHD, but met the founders of https://neurode.com 2 days ago, and I'm in the neurotech space.
I'm surprised to see coaching based solutions continue to exist in a space where more direct interventions exist.
Can you give some of your thinking on this?