Obviously the government should think about the welfare of the general population, not just the winemakers. Instead of destroying wine, the government should sell it at market prices.
You must not have read the article all the way through: the problem — if we can call it that — is a decrease in consumption but not in viniculture, hence the issue of a market glut.
I do not know which kinds of wine are to be destroyed, but I’d hazard a guess that it isn’t the kind that ages well.
There is definitely more non-alcoholic consumption in the UK, with the major supermarkets allocating larger sections for AF beer. I don't know about the situation in France, but it would hit exports here in addition to Brexit problems.
I presume you are implying that the folks who aren't going sober will just consume more to offset if prices decrease, but there is going to be a limit to the amount they can.
The government could also just pile it up in the town squares of France, as freebies from the EU for everyone. Would be gone in a day. Seems strange to “destroy it” when the public will do it for free and it’s been subsidised and paid for. Unlikely I realise, but it’s not like wine goes off. Maybe they need the space for the next load of wine they’re going to cellar and then destroy…
Plus the article says the alcohol from the destroyed wine can be reused - seems like a bit of an effort to go through given the alcohol content of around 12%.
Yes but at the same time, the people have paid for the wine - so the government is saying “you can’t have this wine you paid for, you have to buy more, even though you’re buying less wine”. The operation might stimulate an interest in wine and drinking, causing an increase in wine sales afterwards.
The entire point of this is to decrease the oversupply of wine. If anything this would make it worse assuming some proportion of the wine they bought would’ve been exported.
> the people have paid for the wine
Yes, it’s definitely unfair. So are gazilions of other subsidies paid out by most governments.
I'm not defending bailouts of winemakers, but based on my knowledge of the industry, the government would simply be unable to sell the wine at market prices. They would probably need to be sold at a loss.
France has been over-producing low-quality wine for a long time, mostly in the south as referenced in the article. These bottles normally sell for 2-5 euros at retail within Europe. There is a massive amount of competition at this price point.
Also not mentioned in the article is that French wine is falling out of favor in lower price categories. Spanish and Portugese wines are growing in popularity as are so-called "natural" wines.
Wine is at the extreme end, but the subsidy is to preserve food security and jobs in rural communities. It applies to a wide range of agricultural goods and basic products of those goods (cheese, wine etc).
Wine is not really critical for food security, even in France. Their wheat farmers are.
No, in France there are two aspects: first, the wine lobby is powerful. Second, vineyards and wine are seen are very symbolically important for the country and its identity, down to how the countryside looks.
I got sober at the beginning of the year and it’s been the single best lifestyle decision I’ve ever made.
There’s definitely a growing sobriety movement, at least in the US, I’ve noticed a major shift in bars accommodating non-drinkers in the last couple of years.
As a teetotaller for many years (35->20 years ago), the quantity of social life was fine but the quality often wasn't great - aside from the constant questions about why not drinking, etc., the gradual slide of everyone else into drunken shouting instead of conversation was a suboptimal experience. Gets wearing after a while.
I don't find it tedious at all, and I say that as someone who has never had a single drink in his life. There are many people with alcohol addiction that need to hear messages like the GP's. Perhaps you need to develop your sense of empathy.
And comments on an article about French overproduction of wine is where they, more than others, are congregating?
It's like commenting on an article about the fire at Notre Dame cathedral to say you converted to Judaism and are loving life and everyone else should too. Cool, happy for you stranger, but also don't really care and it's not relevant here.
I wonder what the issue is at play here. HN if full of off-topic comments; I'd venture to say under most articles the number of off-topic comments is higher than the ones strictly on topic. And most people are fine with it and go with the flow, developing the discussion threads. It is quite rare to hear someone "don't talk about this here." Ever in the case of crypto people just downvote the (lets call them) "web3 evangelists" or reply why they disagree, but it's rare to see the "don't discuss it here" statement. Unless, well, it's dang because someone started a flamewar. So I'm wondering why you feel this way about people being happy to have achieved a small but important personal victory.
Do you know how fucking annoying it is to have to defend not drinking? We live in such an alcohol centric culture that we should celebrate anyone not participating in it because of the bad effects it has on society.
I drink very little (small kids , living so I have to drive to get home), maybe 3-4 times a year. At every social gathering I have to defend not drinking at least once. I am so frickin tired of it that I started saying I get too violent when drinking or that I can't drink because I would hit my girlfriend. At least if they point it out in a rude way. That shuts them up.
I once had to help social services get a child from an alcoholic father. He was their 3rd child that evening and they were one of 20 teams. That is when I decided alcohol is poison and that anyone not drinking is commendable.
I understand the nice effects of alcohol. Indo consume it. I have started being the sober guy at every event where there are kids to show that you don't have to. Every person not drinking is a benefit to society.
I can definitely see it being a lot harder when it's 'not tonight thanks' versus 'I don't drink'. I've never heard anyone try to persuade someone teetotal to start, and I assume in a group there'd be voices of reason stepping in.
At just 3-4 times a year though you could probably get away with the latter? Even if the same people present they'd probably just be briefly confused and forget or move on I'd have thought.
> Every person not drinking is a benefit to society.
I think your personal experience is perfectly valid but that quite a jump. I would say moderate drinking is a net benefit to some societies in multiple different ways.
While everyone is different I personally find that I generally become less violent when I drink.
Never once did I tell anyone else that’s what they should do, and I clearly communicated that I’m not a recovering alcoholic. You’re the one ascribing assumptions and intentions that clearly aren’t there.
I said recovered (not recovering), but admittedly that was an assumption yes, but it did seem implied. IME of these tedious comments the proselytisers call themselves alcoholics anyway. I didn't mean any offence by it.
I, for one, appreciate it, and I would like to express my support and admiration for the people who managed to do it. Moreover, I'd say most of the time your personal well-being is more important than the contents of alcohol-related articles.
Same, my wife got pregnant and now that she doesn't drink I stopped and honestly it's been a very easy change. I suggest people to give it a try and reap the savings and benefits before knocking it.
- One of your officials pays farmers to produce surplus food while the next office pays people to destroy the surpluses.
- That's not true!
- No?
- It's not the next office, not even the same floor!
I am not a drinker nor do I do pot so I could be wrong but I think in the west at least a lot of people are moving away from getting drunk to getting high.
Can they use the excess of wine to make some sort of non-alcoholic beverage? If my local supermarket sold "soda made of repurposed French wine" I would definitely buy a bunch of it and drink it at each social occasion, provided that the labeling on the can or bottle uses very big letters to state "this soda is made from French wine surplus." The real thing I wouldn't consume, it's bad for my health.
Boisson sells smth similar to what you described: https://boisson.co/
I got a few bottles since my GF is pregnant. IIRC the bottles I got were from Germany.
My GF claims they taste more like kombucha than sparkling wine.
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[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 198 ms ] threadI do not know which kinds of wine are to be destroyed, but I’d hazard a guess that it isn’t the kind that ages well.
There is definitely more non-alcoholic consumption in the UK, with the major supermarkets allocating larger sections for AF beer. I don't know about the situation in France, but it would hit exports here in addition to Brexit problems.
I presume you are implying that the folks who aren't going sober will just consume more to offset if prices decrease, but there is going to be a limit to the amount they can.
Plus the article says the alcohol from the destroyed wine can be reused - seems like a bit of an effort to go through given the alcohol content of around 12%.
The entire point of this is to decrease the oversupply of wine. If anything this would make it worse assuming some proportion of the wine they bought would’ve been exported.
> the people have paid for the wine
Yes, it’s definitely unfair. So are gazilions of other subsidies paid out by most governments.
France has been over-producing low-quality wine for a long time, mostly in the south as referenced in the article. These bottles normally sell for 2-5 euros at retail within Europe. There is a massive amount of competition at this price point.
Also not mentioned in the article is that French wine is falling out of favor in lower price categories. Spanish and Portugese wines are growing in popularity as are so-called "natural" wines.
You don’t want to lose the capacity to produce vital products like wine or cheese in case some unexpected event happens.
What if 30% of all wineries close and you have a severe drought in a few years. It would result in a extreme humanitarian tragedy…
If winemakers produce wine that the market does not want they should change or go under.
No, in France there are two aspects: first, the wine lobby is powerful. Second, vineyards and wine are seen are very symbolically important for the country and its identity, down to how the countryside looks.
Maybe they could send/smuggle it to others countries (e.g. Scandinavia) and sell it at 50% of what they paid though.
There’s definitely a growing sobriety movement, at least in the US, I’ve noticed a major shift in bars accommodating non-drinkers in the last couple of years.
I've never really done it myself, but I've had several friends over the years who didn't drink, and their social lives seemed fine.
It's like commenting on an article about the fire at Notre Dame cathedral to say you converted to Judaism and are loving life and everyone else should too. Cool, happy for you stranger, but also don't really care and it's not relevant here.
I feel similarly when I see RISC-V mentioned (at least 4 times out of 5) for instance.
I drink very little (small kids , living so I have to drive to get home), maybe 3-4 times a year. At every social gathering I have to defend not drinking at least once. I am so frickin tired of it that I started saying I get too violent when drinking or that I can't drink because I would hit my girlfriend. At least if they point it out in a rude way. That shuts them up.
I once had to help social services get a child from an alcoholic father. He was their 3rd child that evening and they were one of 20 teams. That is when I decided alcohol is poison and that anyone not drinking is commendable.
I understand the nice effects of alcohol. Indo consume it. I have started being the sober guy at every event where there are kids to show that you don't have to. Every person not drinking is a benefit to society.
It is about alcohol politics which makes it about drinking.
I must however admit that I have a tendency to become a polemic ass-hat, and trying to persuade people to drink alcohol is a shitty thing to do.
At just 3-4 times a year though you could probably get away with the latter? Even if the same people present they'd probably just be briefly confused and forget or move on I'd have thought.
> Every person not drinking is a benefit to society.
I think your personal experience is perfectly valid but that quite a jump. I would say moderate drinking is a net benefit to some societies in multiple different ways.
While everyone is different I personally find that I generally become less violent when I drink.
If good wine, wouldn't they just store it and wait for the prices to go up again limiting production?