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Ask HN: Robot vacuum but without the privacy invasion?

24 points by evolve2k ↗ HN
After six months of research I’d finally settled on my dream robot vacume. Sure it was expensive but it would do everything I wanted including having its own self emptying bin into another robot.

The company had a decent enough privacy policy and i was pretty much set to go.

Then word of the privacy scandal hit [1] and I ran a mile.

It’s 2023. I want a robot vacume but I don’t want the privacy compromise.

What options exist?

- maybe it’s a mainstream robot that can be put into offline mode so it never connects to the internet

- maybe it’s some software I install on my local network that intercepts traffic and helps the robot keep running none-the-wiser that it’s not actually phoning home anymore

- maybe it’s the holy grail, the release of the Framework laptop of robovacs. An open hardware dream.

What suggestions do you have for this privacy weary soul who just wants some automated help with household chores?

1. https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-irobot-robot-vacuums-artificial-intelligence-training-data-privacy/

23 comments

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fckgw
Where is your tolerance level? There's plenty of robot vacuums that don't have cameras on them (the majority actually) and they use mapping via LIDAR. They may lose features such as object avoidance however.

If you're concerned with house mapping data then there's always the dumber bump-and-run models that don't map anything.

Some of the older Roomba models use a remote control to set schedules and timers and can be use completely without an app.

kevincox
Yup, I ended up purposely buying an old Roomba that doesn't have WiFi. Unfortunately the newer ones are dependent on an internet connection for many features. If you turn off WiFi scheduled runs don't even trigger! I had to return it and get an older model that I can set up a schedule with the buttons on the top and it runs reliably.
BrittonR
Many models can be hacked to run https://valetudo.cloud which is completely local. I’m using it with a Roborock S5.
mr_machine
This is the way. I have a Dreametech Z10 Pro running Valetudo and integrated with Home Assistant. It works really well - better than I'd hoped it might.
evolve2k
Great advice on that site.

“If you’re really only looking for a general recommendation, just buy the Dreame L10S Ultra. It can do proper mopping, has an auto-empty-dock, obstacle avoidance, a rubber brush to better deal with long hair, it can detect pet waste, it’s priced competitively and it’s also rootable without doing too scary things. Basically it ticks all the boxes.”

Here’s a list of all supported robots:

https://valetudo.cloud/pages/general/supported-robots.html

archi42
As much as I like the L10su (recommended it to a friend and put Valtudo on it for him), caveat emptor: The ultrasonic sensor used for carpet detection is prone to fail. Most detect no carpet anymore (and proceed to mop it), others detect it everywhere (and don't mop anything anymore).

You should be prepared to sending it in for a warranty repair, probability for failure seems to be 5 to 10% from what I notice on the Valetudo telegram channels. Check Google for other peoples experience with Dreame repair centers. He replaced the sensor himself, but that breaks the warranty seal.

Others than that, he's absolutely happy with it.

Check https://valetudo.cloud/pages/general/buying-supported-robots... for the list of recommendations. I've a L10pro myself and it works well, too. But looking at the prices, I'd get a D10s plus or pro myself these days (that is, if the L10su wasn't an option, since it has the superior feature set; I'd be willing to take the risk with the sensor and just swap it).

evolve2k
Thanks! Any idea where to get the replacmemt sensor if I needed one. Also is it difficult to replace?
archi42
Uh, I think my friend ordered one locally and (because that was the last one in stock) another one for his parents from AliExpress.

I didn't do the replacement, but it seems reasonably simple - the cylindrical sensor unit has a cable with a 4 pin connector and is clipped in place.

The new one doesn't look exactly like the old one and had different makings. I hope this means it now doesn't randomly fail.

Raed667
> priced competitively

900€

hypfer
The MSRP for its competitor, the Roborock S8 Pro Ultra, is $1,599.99.
housemusicfan
Anker/Eufy 11S is a fully-offline robovac.

Internet-connected vacuums could represent peak Silicon Valley extravagance. There is no shortage of new dumb ideas every day but they don't get anywhere close to this.

Get your cloud-powered AI bullshit out of my vacuum cleaner.

Amazingly they have succeeded in normalizing the concept that you need an always-on internet connection and a smartphone app to run a vacuum. To clean my floor.

The ghost of Juicero weeps in the corner, wondering how today's companies were more successful in marketing something equally useless.

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spansoa
> maybe it’s some software I install on my local network that intercepts traffic and helps the robot keep running none-the-wiser that it’s not actually phoning home anymore

Yeah all my IoT devices connect to my pi-hole[0] and I manually disable connecting to various hosts. If there was some pre-made IoT filter list that would be great and would save me from manually disabling all the phoning home.

[0] https://pi-hole.net/

tra3
Not sure why you're being downvoted, pi-hole is a solid choice for the privacy conscious.

@op most consumer grade routers let you easily block devices on your network. you might have to connect it initially to activate it, and then block?

omniglottal
Pihole is a DNS solution, not a firewall. Any IoT that calls home via IP address gets right through
praet
I used to have a Eufy 30C. Though inferior to a modern Roomba in many ways, it can operate full offline, doesn't have any cameras, is easily serviceable, and kept my house clean for the better half of a decade.
whywhywhywhy
Might be out of date because I bought it 5 years ago I think but Botvac at least my model (D8 I believe) has excellent room navigation using LIDAR and can run completely offline if you don’t mind turning it on manually.

Not sure how bad it is privacy wise if you connect the app etc. but I chose it because it uses floor level LIDAR when Roomba at the time pointed a camera at the celling and numbed around to build a map.

consoomer
In my experience, these robot vacuums all suck and not in a good way. You're better off paying a premium for a good stand up vacuum and doing it yourself... especially if you live with 1+ females that seem to shed hair like crazy ;p
kevincox
Yeah, long hair is a problem. Even with 2 cats I rarely had to clean the brushes on my vacuum, but after someone with long hair moving in they get locked up quickly.

However I wouldn't agree that the robot vacuums suck. I don't think they are a replacement for a regular vacuum but they definitely extend the time between when I need to clean myself. Running it regularly on a schedule greatly reduced the buildup of dust. Now I only need to occasionally clean the corners rather than regular vacuuming. I do agree that if you expect to buy one and never sweep/vacuum again you will be disappointed. But if you just want to halve or quarter how often you vacuum you might be quite satisfied.

alibrarydweller
My Roomba is on a VLAN without internet access and is controlled via rest980[1] running in a container. It has a basic but functional web interface. Valentudo is probably nicer but I opted to trade that for the broad iRobot install base and spare part/consumable availability.

1. https://github.com/koalazak/rest980

jfoster
Would be great if products could indicate being "offline capable". I am pretty sure that many robot vacuums don't require internet access, but it's often unclear whether it's optional or required.
nicbou
My Roborock S5 works fine with no internet connection. I just put it down and pressed a button. Otherwise there is Valetudo which has been going solid for over a year on it.

Oh and it runs linux. I managed to run a website off it.