i can't wait for the fine-tuning and improvements to the wing design and mechanical assistance system to reach flying finesse.
with all respect though, he really looks like a giant bird taking off and then gliding.
on another note, it'd be so cool to watch human flying sports to spawn from this à la track or polo.
I'll also go on record here calling shenanigans. There are a lot of things that look mighty fishy about that video. I hate to rain on the parade, but I'll be surprised if it turns out to be legit.
Have you ever tried to video kids trying to launch a kite or a glider?
They really do act just like that. The camera person stops to video and everybody runs in front of him. The camera person needs to change position quickly so you tape the grass whirling for a few seconds.
You're not the only one. If this is real, they seem to have gone out of their way with editing to make it look like a fakery. I would have been far, far more convinced by simple, unedited HD footage. For what it's worth, a friend of mine who is a Boeing engineer saw it and cried "fake." I think I need more information.
If this is an attempt at viral marketing, it's worth remembering how many people got pissed at the shoe company that commissioned the Liquid Mountaineering ad - Hi-Tec I think it was.
Edit: If you watch his previous video, at 1:53 here you can clearly see the leaves changing as it blurs and cuts to another shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0tKFOcHyrI&t=1m50s Debating this is a waste of time, it's another hoax.
Liquid Mountaineering looks to be the exact opposite of this.
That was clearly a platform just under the surface of the water. The actual footage was genuine, they just weren't doing what they claimed to be doing, whereas this certainly looks to be a total fake job.
Which parts seemed to be cgi? There was edited footage, but it doesn't seem wrong. I don't know why someone would go through all that trouble with the other 14 videos to create 1 fake one.
It's oh so convenient that the cameraman "happens" to look down and the camera happens to blur (what is it refocusing on?) between the time when the wings are resting on the ground and when they are picked up and ready for the test flight. Then the camera is conveniently moving and keeping things just a tad blurry while the wings start up. If you compare the appearance of the wings before and after the cut you'll notice some slight differences.
Definitely fake as there is a black square on the right wing in the later (CGI, after the camera has looked up again) images that doesn't exist in the earlier (real) footage. You can clearly see this in the video and your screengrab.
From the video it is also obvious that there is no way someone could have stuck that there in the time it took for the camera to turn away and back again.
1. He's received criticism about his videos before, but still insists on filming in random parks, only releasing to press after the event, and using blurry/shaky footage.
2. When he takes off, the camera shakes heavily. When he lands, someone steps in front to block the view.
3. At 0:35, his legs lift up so that his body is parallel to the ground (necessary for flight.) If he had been placing his legs on some sort of device for flight, why would the liftup be that smooth?
This would be awesome if it were real, but... just seems fishy.
Top screenshots: Before CGI switch. Below images are after CGI switch.
When seeing a video they point the camera down, so you "forget" the exact details of the wing. But when you put them next to each other, it's a dead giveaway.
I was looking at that video too and thinking it doesn't look or feel natural. It's a good trick and actually a good demo. I think the physics are kind of off in the final video though.
It could be the camera being wonky, legitimate post-production work, auto gain adjustment, etc.
So, no, look at the equipment used, look at the mechanisms involved, and tell me that it is completely infeasible. Don't rely on analysis of some cheap Youtube video.
As for the black square, I'm willing to chalk that up to being under the fabric until its stretch taught.
EDIT: Black square is not under the wing--probably a patch if its real.
What's off about your screenshots? It looks pretty consistent to me, e.g. the shadows and the marking of the wings.
I definitely noticed that they didn't show the landing clearly. I expected him to fall if he had any kind of velocity going but it wasn't clear, and that seemed fishy.
1) Missing square element in real footage.
2) What bothers me more is that shadow properties are not consistent. In CGI it is more diffuse and changes properties like if the Sun is positioned 10m above.
Also, birds don't generate lift from merely flapping their wings up and down, they generate lift due to the angle of attack of the wing during the upstroke and downstroke. The wings in this video don't address this issue.
Depends on the bird and mode of flight. Large birds like condors basically glide like fixed-wing aircraft, flapping every few minutes; hummingbirds flap at 200 Hz and use various aerodynamic tricks to stay aloft. The flight in the video looks similar to the that of those toy flapping birds powered by a rubber band. It's possible to flap & fly without fully articulated twisting wings, just not as efficient.
True, however those toy birds generate forward thrust and rely on the tail to move upwards or downwards since they're so simplistic. There is no tail on the device in the video, so there's no mechanism driving it upward.
Just to be clear, the power is coming from electric motors, and he is flapping his arms just because that is how the control system was designed, right?
I believe this could be real, but the wings are powered by 4 electric motors. He uses an HTC Android phone and a WiiMote to read the movements of his arms, and that readings are used to control the wings.
There's no need for you to position yourself as a gatekeeper for HN comments, either, but you're doing it anyway. Who elected you to quota individual comments? When you went after me, I had left three comments on this entry. There were more than a dozen by the time you said something, and I had made my point and was willing to back out.
If you've identified a noise problem in the signal -- the only possible reason to go directly after another commenter and expect that you're improving HN at all -- how does spamming yet more about the noise problem improve the situation for anybody?
Thanks for reminding me why I don't contribute to HN, by the way. I'll show myself back out.
No, it's not. I'm just pointing out the 4 electric motors because they're not directly visible in the video, and their use makes the whole flying thing a bit more plausible.
1) You have the engineering fortitude to come up with something that has never been done before, and you choose to attach it to your body with a consumer grade backback? And not even a full hiking one with multiple points of attachment? No rock-climbing harness?
2) Fabric is waaay too loose on the wings to be effective in any kind of aerodynamic sense. At best this is a kite
3) He would "only be able to come up with 5% of the power needed", so he used a bunch of Turnigy motors and some magical super-compact power supply to provide the necessary lift? Not to mention, motors aren't exactly built for rapid oscillation back and forth, and I see no complex mechanisms to turn rotations into a very strong/rapid oscillating force
4) There are ZERO control surfaces on those wings to be able to pull up for a landing like he does. No, that pillow case between his legs doesn't count.
5) An Android operated system, that dynamically reads two separate wii remotes, and converts that accelerometer input into wing movements would not be that responsive.
6) No continuous shot from take-off to landing
7) No shot of the gear used to accomplish this, whether it be the motors/batteries/wiring/pulleys
The disregard for the physics of the situation is actually quite insulting. The "demonstration" is so far from realistic its not even worth a debunking.
Here is an example of what this man is claiming to have done, actually being done, by a team of engineers working for years:
Great video. Notice the difference in the motion of the wings? So much more fluid and natural than the flat and rigid motion of the video from the Wired article.
It's an entirely different mechanism, hence the difference in movement. Note also that the wings are powered by peddling, whereas the birdman has accelerometer-controlled wings (individually controlled, rather).
2) If it's a kite and gets off the ground, so what? Worked, didn't it? Also, for wings, it just has to be glider plus produce enough thrust off the flapping to keep it aloft, yeah? We're not making an airplane here. EDIT: Looks like there is an internal core wing structure (http://www.humanbirdwings.net/wp-content/gallery/fixingwings...) with the extra fabric functioning somewhat like secondary feathers.
3) Motors alone aren't made for rapid oscillation--that's why we have other mechanical devices such as cams, pistons, etc. If you listen carefully at liftoff you can hear a highpitched whine, perhaps a small IC engine. EDIT: Confirmed as electric motors using battery packs.
4) You probably just need to change the angle of attack, and maybe dick around with Cg and Cp. So, until I see your numbers, I'm not discounting this out of hand.
5) Where in the press release does it say he uses an Android OS? It says he uses accelerometers from an HTC smartphone, sure, but I didn't see anything about running Android. EDIT: Taking my own advice, look here for system diagram: (http://www.humanbirdwings.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/exp...). He uses one phone per wing, plus additional computation power.
I call fake, if you watch his previous test video you can see it's CG/Composited, they point the camera at the ground to swap clips with/without the real man/wings.
This one seems to be much better however when he lifts his legs you can see it's too smooth.
There is simply not enough air being moved by those airfoils to lift a 150+ lb object off the ground. He'd need much more speed than that. Or much more wing area. Or much faster articulation. And in any of those cases, the pathetic "wings" would deform horribly and ruin any aerodynamic properties they might possibly possess.
*edit
Now that I've actually watched the video, there's something I'd like to add to the list of red flags others have already pointed out: His landing trajectory. It's way too steep and forward. He'd have to enjoy a near 1:1 thrust ratio to land at that angle, and he'd have to have been pitched up and back to apply all of that thrust against gravity and his forward motion.
The only part that really ruins it for me is, where is the battery powering the electric motors?
I mean, since I am ignorant about aerodynamics and a bunch of stuff, I can suspend my disbelief about the wing actually providing enough lift, and suppose that there exist incredibly powerful motors that could operate in that way.
I would even like to believe that there is an ultrapowerful battery that would be able to provide enough juice for these incredible motors. But where is it?
He is just flying for 30 seconds, you don't need much battery for that. 500gram LiPo should have more than enough juice for that.
Look at your laptop battery, they are around 50Wh which should be able to provide 2kW for almost 2 minutes, disregarding the maximum current it can pump out.
This is what makes me doubt if it really is fake or not. "Why has nobody done this before"? Because light weight power storage and motors has not been available until now. But the videos smell CG so I'm still calling fake on this one.
163 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 229 ms ] threadThis makes me wonder what Leonardo da Vinci could've accomplished given some base robotics technology to work off of.
They really do act just like that. The camera person stops to video and everybody runs in front of him. The camera person needs to change position quickly so you tape the grass whirling for a few seconds.
If this is an attempt at viral marketing, it's worth remembering how many people got pissed at the shoe company that commissioned the Liquid Mountaineering ad - Hi-Tec I think it was.
Edit: If you watch his previous video, at 1:53 here you can clearly see the leaves changing as it blurs and cuts to another shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0tKFOcHyrI&t=1m50s Debating this is a waste of time, it's another hoax.
That was clearly a platform just under the surface of the water. The actual footage was genuine, they just weren't doing what they claimed to be doing, whereas this certainly looks to be a total fake job.
Stage magic vs cut-rate Michael Bay
It's oh so convenient that the cameraman "happens" to look down and the camera happens to blur (what is it refocusing on?) between the time when the wings are resting on the ground and when they are picked up and ready for the test flight. Then the camera is conveniently moving and keeping things just a tad blurry while the wings start up. If you compare the appearance of the wings before and after the cut you'll notice some slight differences.
You tell me, does this look real or fake? http://i.imgur.com/YtPMI.png
From the video it is also obvious that there is no way someone could have stuck that there in the time it took for the camera to turn away and back again.
I'd be amazed if this is real, because it would be far easier to fake than to really pull off.
1. GoPro-camera viral ad... 20% 2. funny joke... 10% 3. this is real ... 70%
damn... the track record of incredible, but fake videos in the recent past makes me feel skeptical, but I wish it was real
btw 0:57 the tracks on the grass.. look suspicious ;)
Why does it add up to 115%? Because apparently basic physics is bullshit so why not math?
1. He's received criticism about his videos before, but still insists on filming in random parks, only releasing to press after the event, and using blurry/shaky footage.
2. When he takes off, the camera shakes heavily. When he lands, someone steps in front to block the view.
3. At 0:35, his legs lift up so that his body is parallel to the ground (necessary for flight.) If he had been placing his legs on some sort of device for flight, why would the liftup be that smooth?
This would be awesome if it were real, but... just seems fishy.
http://www.humanbirdwings.net/project-timeline/
It would seem that arguments about the system instead of the filming might, you know, be more productive.
In this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0tKFOcHyrI#t=101s The switch happens in a moment of blur at 1:53.
Here's some damning evidence: http://i.imgur.com/LODDp.jpg
Top screenshots: Before CGI switch. Below images are after CGI switch.
When seeing a video they point the camera down, so you "forget" the exact details of the wing. But when you put them next to each other, it's a dead giveaway.
The color saturation is a little different, but the camera is at a slightly different angle to the sun too.
The black square is a bit suspicious.
So, no, look at the equipment used, look at the mechanisms involved, and tell me that it is completely infeasible. Don't rely on analysis of some cheap Youtube video.
As for the black square, I'm willing to chalk that up to being under the fabric until its stretch taught.
EDIT: Black square is not under the wing--probably a patch if its real.
I definitely noticed that they didn't show the landing clearly. I expected him to fall if he had any kind of velocity going but it wasn't clear, and that seemed fishy.
There are many more details on his blog http://www.humanbirdwings.net/project-timeline/
Edit: JoeCortopassi raised some good points in his comment. I'm not so sure this is plausible, even with the 4 motors.
If you've identified a noise problem in the signal -- the only possible reason to go directly after another commenter and expect that you're improving HN at all -- how does spamming yet more about the noise problem improve the situation for anybody?
Thanks for reminding me why I don't contribute to HN, by the way. I'll show myself back out.
You can see a pic of said motors here: http://www.humanbirdwings.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Tim...
http://gawker.com/5539222/how-not-to-fall-for-a-viral-market... (Yes it's Gawker but they did have one of the better write-ups :/ ).
A few minutes browsing the project homepage (http://www.humanbirdwings.net) and WHOIS (http://whois.net/whois/humanbirdwings.net) makes it look more legit though...
1) You have the engineering fortitude to come up with something that has never been done before, and you choose to attach it to your body with a consumer grade backback? And not even a full hiking one with multiple points of attachment? No rock-climbing harness?
2) Fabric is waaay too loose on the wings to be effective in any kind of aerodynamic sense. At best this is a kite
3) He would "only be able to come up with 5% of the power needed", so he used a bunch of Turnigy motors and some magical super-compact power supply to provide the necessary lift? Not to mention, motors aren't exactly built for rapid oscillation back and forth, and I see no complex mechanisms to turn rotations into a very strong/rapid oscillating force
4) There are ZERO control surfaces on those wings to be able to pull up for a landing like he does. No, that pillow case between his legs doesn't count.
5) An Android operated system, that dynamically reads two separate wii remotes, and converts that accelerometer input into wing movements would not be that responsive.
6) No continuous shot from take-off to landing
7) No shot of the gear used to accomplish this, whether it be the motors/batteries/wiring/pulleys
Here is an example of what this man is claiming to have done, actually being done, by a team of engineers working for years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E77j1imdhQ
2) If it's a kite and gets off the ground, so what? Worked, didn't it? Also, for wings, it just has to be glider plus produce enough thrust off the flapping to keep it aloft, yeah? We're not making an airplane here. EDIT: Looks like there is an internal core wing structure (http://www.humanbirdwings.net/wp-content/gallery/fixingwings...) with the extra fabric functioning somewhat like secondary feathers.
3) Motors alone aren't made for rapid oscillation--that's why we have other mechanical devices such as cams, pistons, etc. If you listen carefully at liftoff you can hear a highpitched whine, perhaps a small IC engine. EDIT: Confirmed as electric motors using battery packs.
4) You probably just need to change the angle of attack, and maybe dick around with Cg and Cp. So, until I see your numbers, I'm not discounting this out of hand.
5) Where in the press release does it say he uses an Android OS? It says he uses accelerometers from an HTC smartphone, sure, but I didn't see anything about running Android. EDIT: Taking my own advice, look here for system diagram: (http://www.humanbirdwings.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/exp...). He uses one phone per wing, plus additional computation power.
6) So what? That alone isn't implausible.
7) That's probably because this is worth good money in patents. EDIT: Check the website here (http://www.humanbirdwings.net/press/).
Why is it so absurd that this might work?
Maybe it's fake but plenty of effort went into it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbas_Ibn_Firnas
This one seems to be much better however when he lifts his legs you can see it's too smooth.
*edit Now that I've actually watched the video, there's something I'd like to add to the list of red flags others have already pointed out: His landing trajectory. It's way too steep and forward. He'd have to enjoy a near 1:1 thrust ratio to land at that angle, and he'd have to have been pitched up and back to apply all of that thrust against gravity and his forward motion.
The only part that really ruins it for me is, where is the battery powering the electric motors?
I mean, since I am ignorant about aerodynamics and a bunch of stuff, I can suspend my disbelief about the wing actually providing enough lift, and suppose that there exist incredibly powerful motors that could operate in that way.
I would even like to believe that there is an ultrapowerful battery that would be able to provide enough juice for these incredible motors. But where is it?
Man I hope Mythbusters does this one!
Look at your laptop battery, they are around 50Wh which should be able to provide 2kW for almost 2 minutes, disregarding the maximum current it can pump out.
This is what makes me doubt if it really is fake or not. "Why has nobody done this before"? Because light weight power storage and motors has not been available until now. But the videos smell CG so I'm still calling fake on this one.