Ask HN: How to Focus Again?
I used to be able to set myself a task and focus on it until I finished. I could imagine a product and build an MVP in a weekend, flesh it out in a month and launch it. Now I can't focus on my tasks for more than a few minutes, I'm constantly context switching, procrastination is killing all productivity even for tasks that I was looking forward to. Today I wanted to really knuckle down and make some real progress on my side project. I've updated my iPad, fixed the leg on a tripod, cut the grass, cleaned the mower, scrubbed the driveway. Guess how much progress I made on the side project?
I talked to my GP - she said it could be undiagnosed ADHD, I filled in a quiz she gave me but she said it will take 2 years to get diagnosed(!) I can't wait that long.
How do I get back to how I used to be? Focused, driven, talented? I feel like part of me has rotted away and I want it back!
108 comments
[ 0.23 ms ] story [ 163 ms ] threadYou don't mention a life partner.
> Sounds like the work might not lead somewhere you really judge is useful, or judge will be painful.
As someone with ADHD I have realized that my executive function goes to zero if I think doing something isn't worthwhile. Not if I consciously think it's worthwhile, but if I know deep down that it's pretty much pointless. Thankfully my brain is a pretty good judge of what is worthwhile. The value of doing something doesn't have to be intrinsic, it can be extrinsic. Right now I am thinking about a potential architectures I could implement at work, even though I'd like to enjoy the weekend. But it's easy to hyperfixate on because it delivers immediate value and gives me a consistent hit of dopamine. Before this job I was unemployed for 6 months, and became unproductive after 3 months and just started wasting the days. I was concerned that I would come back into this job and be unproductive. Nothing could be further from the truth. My brain just quickly learned that there was no carrot at the end of the stick (no impact of my software) as long as I was unemployed.
All that to say, it sounds like whatever you have been doing has been fruitless, or at least appears this way to the man in charge of your brain. Either you haven't been hitting consistent milestones, or the payoff isn't really rewarding.
A practice that has helped me determine which tasks are going to be easy for me to do is to think about how measurable a success metric is. If the success metric is just "learn a new skill" then I probably wont do it. If the success metric is to make something that will make my life or the lives of others easier, or something really kick-ass, then it becomes really easy to do.
You probably should sit down and think about what constitutes "success" or "completion" for each of these projects and think about why you think you want to do them in the first place.
This could be true, or it could be a self-serving bias. It's something to think about. Presumably, there was a point in time when you thought that the thing that you now think isn't worthwhile felt very much so.
Thank you for putting this in writing in the way that you did. As someone who went undiagnosed for the first 37 years of their life, this is almost the exact wording I used to use to explain my executive (dys)function to my family, teachers, colleagues and friends.
Most of my teachers disliked me throughout my academic life, because while they could see the 'potential', my overall academic achievements were only ever good enough to level up to where I needed to be. However, I would win competitions and had a very high ceiling for the things I was into. As an adult I've struggled with myself a lot, but in the last 10 years I have built and sold a software company and successfully helped raise a family.
The ADHD label really made me question a lot of things for a couple of years, but I've now come back round to trusting and really appreciating that ability to subconsciously, intrinsically 'know' what is worth investing my time into and what is not. Rather than the hyperfocus people often cite, I consider that ability to be my real, true ADHD superpower.
I’m constantly having to convince myself of the worth of things in order to finish them even when I may innately disagree with them. It feels like a never ending struggle.
You know, this really hit home. I have very much failed to set milestones, or even properly break down the project into smaller chunks - in my mind it's just "the project" and sometimes it seems huge. I'm going to map it all out, then tackle it in smaller chunks. I'll hit the easy, quick tasks first - maybe those small wins will give me the motivation to tackle the bigger tasks. Thank you.
I didn't even get into coping mechanisms, but breaking things down into lists helps a lot. I am a one-man team at work but I still do stories and tasks and epics just to give a sense of progression.
I taught at a summer camp over the summer helping kids make games and all of the boys had serious attention issues, using a physical task board with sticky notes helped keep them on track and prevented them from losing morale.
> maybe those small wins will give me the motivation to tackle the bigger tasks
It sounds like you know exactly what to do. Usually I find starting is the hardest part, once I'm deep in the task it becomes effortless.
Finally, I wanna say that introspection is really helpful. I got diagnosed as a kid and never got medicated or anything, I never gave ADHD any thought until recently when I did some introspection and tried to understand /why/ I operated the way that I did, and how I could work around that. Asking why X was so easy but Y seems so hard is usually a good place to start. Good luck!
Because to me it sounds a lot like how I experienced burnout, and it sounds like you’re the sort of person who tends to work extremely hard.
ADHD is a big something. Don't be stupid.
Have you considered taking a vacation, maybe one without any use of computers or cell phones? It's not a cure-all, but stepping away like that will give you a fresh perspective once you get back to your day to day, and that in turn might bring insight into what has gone wrong. And if the real issue you're facing is burnout, then it will go a long way to fixing the problem.
Full disclosure, I am diagnosed with ADHD and take stimulants daily, and initially felt pretty defensive when reading your comments here and starting to read that article. I have some problems with the article and generally find that author pretty insufferable, but the article concludes that the risks of medically-supervised stimulant use are low enough that the author personally finds stimulants worth prescribing to patients who benefit from them.
Even Section 1 which you specifically referenced, and which admittedly made me pretty annoyed until I read it a few times, and even though the author certainly seems to be trying to insinuate that ADHD isn't real, doesn't really seem to be actually backing up that point. His main point or objection seems to be that ADHD is diagnosed using arbitrary subjective criteria rather than objective measurements like other spectrum disorders (isn't blood pressure also a normally distributed trait, where we* "arbitrarily" draw a line and say people on the wrong side of that line have hypertension and should be prescribed beta blockers?).
I'll admit to feeling a little argumentative after reading some of the comments here but I do genuinely want to understand these points better, and I feel like I must be missing some fundamental context or point that the article is making.
*for various definitions of "we", since different countries and organizations define hypertension differently.
In my reading, his main points are that (1) ADHD diagnosis is very wooly and (2) amphetamines have a similar effect on everyone, whether or not they believe themselves to suffer from ADHD. The second point in particular is one that is always disputed on internet forums, where it's held as gospel that stimulants have some kind of paradoxical calming effect on the neurodivergent, and that this is one way to distinguish 'real' ADHD sufferers from people who just want better focus.
So the upshot is, there's a powerful focus-enhancing drug that is available to anyone provided they believe in the existence of a condition called ADHD and know how to tell the right stories about it to gatekeepers.
There’s a lot of evidence and some decent work on neural circuits. What’s your take on autism? Just a label?
The search term "culturally-bound syndrome" makes for interesting reading in this area.
The degree to which any medical diagnosis exists is on a spectrum. A cancerous tumor obviously exists, high blood pressure exists but is relative, schizophrenia - and psychiatric diagnoses generally - exist but can be more difficult to observe externally.
The behaviors associated with ADHD are so common and relatable to most folks that the diagnosis seems less legitimate. To my knowledge, you cannot scan the brain of someone with ADHD and point out an abnormality associated with the disorder. Yet we give 8 year old boys stimulant medication because they can't sit still in a classroom for hours a day.
Fwiw I have ADHD and take stimulant medication daily. But I also understand folks' resistance to accept ADHD as being as legitimate as other medical diagnoses.
I'm not well-versed in the risks of stimulants given to children so I'm not commenting on that specifically, but I want to push back on the insinuation (if I understood you correctly) that ADHD or its treatments are any less legitimate because we haven't yet figured out if we can use brain imaging to diagnose and measure treatment efficacy.
It would be great if all medical disorders could be externally measured and quantified objectively, but when they're not, we often rely on evaluating and diagnosing them based on the (often somewhat more subjective) impact of their symptoms. That's not ideal, but it seems better than nothing to me.
Full disclosure: I'm also diagnosed with ADHD and take daily stimulants. Apologies if I came off as combative, I'm relatively new to my ADHD journey and genuinely curious to learn more about the medical/scientific aspects.
I was playing devil's advocate to explain why someone might feel that way. My personal opinion is that every adult should have the right to assess for themselves whether they feel stimulants can improve their quality of life. The question of whether ADHD is "real" or legitimate is totally unimportant to me. And I agree with your take: if we can identify symptoms and effectively treat them, that is more important than uncovering some underlying "legitimacy" of the treated condition.
Congratulations on getting diagnosed. ADHD has the highest treatment success rate among psychiatric conditions. Be sure to keep up with all the other healthy habits for improving focus (sleep, exercise, nutrition, hydration, etc.).
There’s nothing more annoying when people respond to you with “yeah, well, everyone feels/behaves/think like that”
https://psychiatry-uk.com/right-to-choose/
(It can be easy to misread because you can also approach PUK and pay for assessment. However, that doesn't affect where you'd end up in "the queue" - just how you enter it.)
Full disclosure: I used their service, but am otherwise unaffiliated.
Unfortunately it appears they've stopped accepting new ones for now, but the information is still valid.
This is probably going to end up a big jumble and all of it is based on my personal experience only, I am not a doctor, and I have other neurological conditions that likely interact with/cause some of these, so take it all with a grain of salt.
It can be helpful to do as much as you can to rule out external causes and really nail down conceptualising the kinds of things that you are struggling with. With that in mind, HowToAdhd[1] is a great channel with a variety of relatively digestible information.
Burnout could be an issue - if (like me at the moment) you have a lot of workplace-related stress, it's going to make all of this a thousand times harder and lead to worsening symptoms. Youtube Shorts and Instagram are absolutely positively toxic to me (especially without medication) and I avoid them like the plague because they are the _worst_ iteration of attention-stealing, engagement-metric pumping skinner box mechanics yet. It's absolutely critical that we do as much as we can to arrange our environments to encourage positive opportunities. No phones in the bedroom or first thing in the morning - it'll just make you anxious if you check your calendar when you first wake up. Good, consistent sleep is really important. A blackout blind. Stay hydrated.
I am in my thirties and have Cerebral Palsy and an ADHD (predominantly innatentive) diagnosis. It's a very unhelpful name for what is fundamentally thought to be a difference in executive function in the brain. It's not really a deficit of attention, and people hear the hyperactive part and think, "well, I don't bounce off the walls, so I must not have it". It's closer to think of it as impaired control of your executive function, the processes in your mind which prompt you, help you decide to change task, stay on task - to the point where it seriously impairs your daily life.
Getting stuck scrolling on your phone, past the point where you're doing anything meaningful, you're not even enjoying it any more, but you can't really stop, until you realise it's five minutes past 9 and you're late. Finish work. Sitting on the sofa knowing you _should_ get up and do the pots, but you just _can't_. You go get some food. Leaving the fridge open in the kitchen you then go to another room to put something in a drawer. Now your brain doesn't prompt you to go back and close the fridge, but instead you find yourself rabbit-holed into cleaning out a junk drawer. You're finding things you lost in there months ago. Your partner comes home, hours have passed. You forgot about the fridge. And the half-clean kitchen. And the laundry that's sitting wet in the tumble drier. You're surrounded by crap from the drawer.
In my case, people were so focused on the physical problems I had with Cerebral Palsy, and they simply lumped the executive function difficulties I had in with "oh, he is disabled, it's just that", and weren't noticing that multiple constellations of symptoms existed that weren't present in or reasonably explained by it. I'm now also strongly considering the possibility that I may be on the autistic spectrum as well. To be diagnosed with ADHD, it must have been present during your whole life as it's a neurodevelopmental disorder, but it can manifest quite differently as you get through school and the demands of life become greater. You may have done just about okay in school and then (for example) found working life more and more and more difficult as jobs became more and more demanding. Working yourself to the bone out of hours just to "keep up". Multiple burnouts and comorbid depression are not uncommon.
Looking through the replies, there's disagreement and doubt about ADHD, and people can read a list of symptoms and reject it with statement...
Part of that is mild depression and part of it is early burnout, but the majority of it is recognizing that most side projects are a waste of time, and if I'm going to "waste" time I'd rather it be hanging out with my kid or playing video games.
https://www.amazon.com/Now-Habit-Overcoming-Procrastination-...
ADHD meds won't help you there. You'll just end up cleaning the house way harder. Think about what motivated you in the past to get those MVPs you did out the door and think about what you can modify in whatever it is you're doing now to get that back. If that motivation from days yore is forgotten or lost somehow then it's time to sort out what you can be excited about next.
Start with manageable # of sessions per day. 2 or 3.
Repeat every day. If you’re able to focus for the full hour each session, increase number of session.
Stay consistent and you will improve.
You have forgotten how to focus. We live in a world where we are constantly distracted. This is forced on us. The apps we use compete over our attention, our workplace expects quick replies over Slack, our free time is always accompanied by a smart phone pushing us notifications.
These effects are getting stronger. Technology evolves new attention taking techniques. Our remote work culture expects faster replies as you are, in theory, always at your desk.
You can address this focus deficiency, but it isn't easy. Put your phone always on Do Not Disturb. Use site blocking extensions to limit time wasters (yes, even Hacker News). Stop being so responsive at work.
The first few weeks will hurt. You won't instantly be able to focus, and you will feel less productive due to the lower response time. But after some time, you will be able to do work others cannot. You can complete the big work you are struggling to right now. Relearn how to focus.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=K-TW2Chpz4k
Edit: here are some summaries:
https://podcastnotes.org/huberman-lab/leverage-dopamine-to-o...
https://healthnews.com/family-health/healthy-living/andrew-h...
He is almost on par with bro-science fitness youtubers.
/s
lmk if theres a twitter thread so i can unroll it with threader app and forget it.
/s
I find dopamine spiking activities, or putting a body in a state of discomfort (eg intense work out, cold showers) make me procrastinate more.
Doing an intense work out makes me think “I’m done for the day, I have done enough, I deserve a break from whatever I’m procrastinating on”.
It could be due to aging. As people age, it gets harder for the body to release dopamine in anticipation of getting something we done, especially for things that we are familiar with. As a result, one loses focus because of no trickling joy. "Been there done that" in a way is truly a curse.
My own cure is always finding new things to tackle, and tackle only fundamental problems. Of course, my fundamental problem can be trivial to another smarter engineer. The key is to keep myself excited and therefore focused instead of how deep the problem is.
The downside of this approach, though, is that I may have to switch jobs, and I need to work hard to keep myself healthy to have enough energy.
It seems to me that, instead of working on a side project, you did many things you still had to do anyway. This could be an issue if you have an hard deadline approaching, but if you don't have one, is it really that bad? If it also significantly affects your work then sure, maybe you have to do something about it, but if you just procrastinate side projects by doing chores, then I don't see much of an issue. Doing other useful things instead of working on your main task is what I heard called "productive procrastination". I would say this can be an issue only if it really prevents you from working on what you would like to work on, but if you're just procrastinating every now and then by giving priority to other tasks on your to-do list, maybe it's a non-issue.
Yes. Anything you do repeatedly becomes a habit, ie: becomes the default behavior. If you procrastinate enough for it to become a habit, then the next time you try to do something you need to do, you'll instinctively procrastinate instead. You can try to make the bad habit work for you (ie: "productive procrastination"), but it's better not to let the habit develop in the first place and if it's already in place to replace it with a more productive habit.
Hal fixes a light bulb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbSehcT19u0
a huge cold brew with extra espresso helps me focus
i guess the focus comes about because the caffeine helps me realize that the little 'side-side quests' are actually meaningless, making the 'real quest' actually attainable (since now there's no 'worthless' things to occupy my time)
MVP is a term from a decanter Western world that is only governed by production and mercantile values, completely forgetting its spiritual part. Then you will wonder why you are lost and you will have to resort to drugs because no sentient being could be subjected to such torture organically.