There are some "demos" on the homepage, although I don't think they do a very good job of demonstrating the app.
Klack is an interesting concept, but a really wish there was like a 15 minute real demo or something to really get a feel for what's like. I'm also reluctant of paying for it just to try it out.
This reminds me of getting into the zone and programming away on a mechanical keyboard. The sound is really soothing for me and feels so good. Unfortunately, as I age it’s harder and harder to get into this perfect flow, where every key stroke touches my soul.
In iOS Safari, I had them playing under my music, barely noticed, they are quite faint.
Then when I switched away to pause Pandora and get a better listen, they seemed to go silent too. But, when I reloaded the Klack site, they seemed to work again. FWIW.
As someone who hates noisy keys, this is really cool. It lets people who like hearing audible click feedback to still hear it their headphones, while other folks around them don't hear it all. Nice job.
Missing the point I think. It's really disrespectful to use a loud / mechanical keyboard in a public place, or really when anyone else is nearby. This lets folks use normal/good keyboards and still satisfy the weird craving some have for mechanical noises through their own headphones. Probably will save some RSI surgeries too, people can use healthy low key travel keyboards instead of high travel mechanical switches, while still getting the clicking sound they want.
Obviously it doesn't change anything in the physical world. I think you're just misunderstanding the implication. If this software fulfills the need, individuals would not need to use keyboards that physically create the sound. Whether that would actually happen is a different matter.
> Probably will save some RSI surgeries too, people can use healthy low key travel keyboards instead of high travel mechanical switches, while still getting the clicking sound they want.
Citation Needed.
Mechanical keyboards are generally considered to be /better/ for your ergonomic health than low-travel keyboards. Part of this is that the primary form of repetitive injury is bottoming out the keys, which if you are on a higher travel keyboard with good tactile feedback you tend not to do, because you can actuate the keys without bottoming out.
Anecdote: I had serious wrist/hand pain after using a mechanical keyboard for years. I changed to a low profile keyboard, and I don't have pain anymore. Who knows, maybe it was coincidence.
Funny, I always feel like I’m about to get injured using really low travel keyboards like the new apple magic keyboards. Hence I prefer mechanical ones.
Guess it varies from person to person. Good to find what works for you.
I have a theory that the RSI is mainly developed by the angle of the hands relative to the keyboard. Which is why the profile change is sufficient to mitigate the problem.
Good point - using a wrist rest with a mechanical keyboard feels a lot more comfortable for me, since they tend to be a bit bulkier and more raised from the desk. Without one, I rely on the armrests to have the forearms higher than the keyboard so that my wrists aren't flexed.
Anecdote: I had the opposite, I switched to an ergo layout mechanical keyboard and a vertical mouse and was able to avoid near-certain surgery.
The difference tends to be whether you're a "hard typer" or not. Folks who are hard typers (I am one), do much better with mechanical keyboards because it subtlety teaches you not to bottom out due to tactile feedback, while low-travel keyboards you /always/ bottom out while using. Folks who are not hard typers don't bottom out hard enough for it to injure them, and because they type more softly experience more strain due to the higher actuation weights of mechanical key switches.
RSI is fun like that, there's no one true answer. You have to find what works for you. It's not a mistake though that one of the first and most respected ergonomic keyboards has always been mechanical, though [1].
That said, /most/ RSI issues actually start with how you sit while typing. If you get a proper chair and desk and adjust your typing stance (yes, this is a thing), you can reduce wrist pain from RSI even without changing anything about your keyboard. Also, using touchscreens and using mice are way worse than the keyboard for you anyway.
The reason I responded the way I did to the parent, is that people who are hard typers are basically guaranteed to end up with RSI at some point in their life simply due to the strain of being a hard typer. As near as I can gather at this point, there's nothing you can do to train yourself to not be a hard typer. I'll be this way my entire life, but I can get tools that reduce its negative impacts.
It seems individual. For me mechanical keyboards are way too deep and require too much effort to press. It is possible to lightly touch them but this requires more mental effort imo than just using a chiclet keyboard.
It feels like people use them for the satisfying audio and tactile feedback rather than any genuine improvement in typing speed.
> It is possible to lightly touch them but this requires more mental effort imo than just using a chiclet keyboard.
This is easily remedied by using a very lightweight switch. Many different mechanical switches are available from well under 45gf to actuation force. (Thinkpad and macbook laptop/desktop keyboard range from 60 to 65gf of actuation[1]) You can see a small set of available switches and their force actuation curves here: switches.mx. You should possibly look into getting a switch tester with many types of switches to get the exact feedback force you prefer.
There’s a ton more websites (theremingoat.com) and public github databases for this data.
‘Mechanical’ has practically nothing to do with keyboard acoustics. Take a typical mechanical keyswitch, like a Cherry MX brown, loose on it own, and press it: it's practically silent.
This whole comment feels pretty bunk and I am surprised at the confidence with which it is written.
> It's really disrespectful to use a loud / mechanical keyboard in a public place, or really when anyone else is nearby.
It isn't. Public places come with noise. By this snippet, even speaking would be disrespectful in a public place.
> This lets folks use normal/good keyboards and still satisfy the weird craving some have for mechanical noises through their own headphones.
Good keyboards are subjective. It is weirdly reductive to refer to keyboard sounds as a craving.
> Probably will save some RSI surgeries too, people can use healthy low key travel keyboards instead of high travel mechanical switches, while still getting the clicking sound they want.
Low travel keyboards are not healthy. Regular keyboards are not unhealthy. There are not correlations between them. The nature of RSI means that experiences will differ and what works or doesn't work for you will not be the same for me.
Of course public spaces come with noise, but creating more noise than you need to is disrespectful. It's no different to having bad hygiene, using more space than you need or public flatulence. These things are unpleasant or inconvenient for others so should be kept to a minimum. In general one should seek to minimise their footprint wherever possible.
The spoken word is probably the single most difficult common specific sound to filter out - it's probably the sound we're most hardwired to pick out from background noise and process, possibly second to the sounds of an aggressive wild animal.
Audible conversation is incredibly distracting - we put up with it in the workplace because workers need to collaborate and communicate. There's a reason it's heavily frowned upon in places where people intend to hear something specific (theatres, churches) or focus deeply (libraries).
Your Cherry MX Blue switches probably aren't going to be welcome in any of those spaces either though.
It’s mainly useful in an open office setting and you want to be able to hear click feedback but don’t want to drive everyone around you crazy with a noisy keyboard. Or you’re working on a laptop and want more audible key feedback than the laptop keyboard provides.
Still worse. Mechanical keys make the sound/tactile bump at the point of actuation. There is significant latency between that and your eyeballs, about as much between that and your ears (USB keyboard HID is typically polled at 10ms, Bluetooth is easily over 50ms).
I've tried things like this, and they lag is very slight and variable, but is too noticeable for me to enjoy. There's nothing better than pure mechanical soundwaves
Atari ST's TOS also did it via the sound chip. Could be turned off in Control Panel.
IBM's "beam spring"-switch terminal keyboards had a solenoid, to make it sound like a typewriter: <https://youtu.be/tMOkhsHxA7U> (with modern controller)
For an open source alternative, try Bucklyspring: it runs on linux, mac and windows. All Klack's marketing lingo even applies as well: High fidelity sound, Immersive spatial audio, Instant type feedback, Up/down keystrokes.
That the term essentially didn't exist (1/100 "interest") until Apple rolled it out in Sep 2020 (with some press the summer before).
The general idea of a 3D effect on headphones has been around for decades, often called "3D audio" or similar [1], but I never heard the term "spatial audio" until Apple marketed it.
The term is, the tech isn't. Apple does this with lots of things, like calling OLED displays 'Super Retina'; it both is and isn't true that only Apple products have super retina displays.
I think the distinguishing feature of displays branded “Super Retina” is the high pixel density (around 460 ppi). They have lower density OLED displays that they just call “Retina”.
The erlang version will allow it to be played through the speakers of any or all devices in the cluster. I'm not sure we're ready for this amount of power.
Thanks for sharing this project. Love the sounds [1]. Unfortunately, the github states the windows version is broken (haven't verified myself). Also, just personal taste, I can see myself getting tied of the bucklespring sound. Klack having different switch sounds seems worth the price alone.
I bought it through the App Store and it requires you to give the app Accessibility access. I hesitated about this, but it does make sense. The good news is that you can turn this setting on and off easily. So potentially you could only run the app with access to keyboard input when you're choosing to write something that's not sensitive.
There was something recently about hacks using actual sounds from a keyboard (which is an old thing) but someone commented that they had trained an AI in 30 minutes or so that had about 90% accuracy -- I think someone used this technique to hack a phone scam group too, just from listening to them typing over the phone as the scammer targeted them. Hot!
> they had trained an AI in 30 minutes or so that had about 90% accuracy
IF we're talking about the same article, the AI was trained from sounds recorded from a single phone, placed always in the same spot near a single computer that was being used by a single person.
My guess is that it can't generalize OR that for it to be a viable attack, you have to target a specific person and access a microphone always placed in the same spot near the target comuputer
This is a neat little piece of software, however I find the most satisfaction comes from building your own mechanical keyboard that makes amazing sounds when you type :). I recommend it as a good weekend project for pretty much any nerdy-type person.
What will happen when you combine this with AutoHotKey and the like? Will my coworkers think I'm producing tons of code or will it remain silent?
I used wev (Wayland xev) and some macros on Sway in past to use my touchpad with macros (macOS-like) but I guess these are going to count as keypresses.
Are you sure about that? IIRC, all Model M keyboards say "1984" on them, but that's a copyright date, not the manufacturing date. There should be another inscription somewhere with the actual manufacturing date (day/month/year, not just year).
This app needs accessibility access in MacOS. The OS warns ominously: "Allow the applications below to control your computer". Did I just pay to install a keylogger?
Well of course it has to register the keystrokes first. And only when it knows which key you struck can it produce that Dolby Surround spatially consistent clack.
I can't assure you you haven't, since the only way to tell would be via the source code, but for what its worth, I've installed a lot of other applications that ask for permission to "control your computer", including "Discord, League of Legends, Steam, Zoom, Logitech Options, etc.
90%+ of Mac software I have installed in newer versions needs some broad "accessibility" permission, simply because the OS is too restrictive for an application that wants to do anything even slightly complex. 1Password needs it to autofill text inputs. Zoom needs it for screenshare. iTerm needs it for remapping keys. The OS presents it as "this scary app wants to control your computer!!" when the permission should really be broken down.
I'm boggled by this - assuming it's not a joke of some kind. Would anybody actually pay to have a clacky key sound if their keyboard doesn't do it already?
I do the bulk of my typing on ancient Microsoft Natural Pro keyboards from the pre-/early 2000s era. (Though I'm trialing the Cloud Nine ergo split keyboards with some success...) Noise is inevitable. Not sure I'd pay for it if it didn't happen, er, naturally though.
I still firmly believe that a microtransaction economy would be great for exactly this kind of use-cases to transform currently broken/predatory business models into viable, affordable services. Using the Lightning Network for such transactions seems obvious to me, though I know the general hatred of HN for Bitcoin and crypto (the latter of which I agree with).
167 comments
[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 218 ms ] threadEDIT: Oh! I see you can click on the little play buttons in the hero image to hear a preview. That's pretty subtle.
Klack is an interesting concept, but a really wish there was like a 15 minute real demo or something to really get a feel for what's like. I'm also reluctant of paying for it just to try it out.
Then when I switched away to pause Pandora and get a better listen, they seemed to go silent too. But, when I reloaded the Klack site, they seemed to work again. FWIW.
Citation Needed.
Mechanical keyboards are generally considered to be /better/ for your ergonomic health than low-travel keyboards. Part of this is that the primary form of repetitive injury is bottoming out the keys, which if you are on a higher travel keyboard with good tactile feedback you tend not to do, because you can actuate the keys without bottoming out.
Citation needed there as well?
Guess it varies from person to person. Good to find what works for you.
The difference tends to be whether you're a "hard typer" or not. Folks who are hard typers (I am one), do much better with mechanical keyboards because it subtlety teaches you not to bottom out due to tactile feedback, while low-travel keyboards you /always/ bottom out while using. Folks who are not hard typers don't bottom out hard enough for it to injure them, and because they type more softly experience more strain due to the higher actuation weights of mechanical key switches.
RSI is fun like that, there's no one true answer. You have to find what works for you. It's not a mistake though that one of the first and most respected ergonomic keyboards has always been mechanical, though [1].
That said, /most/ RSI issues actually start with how you sit while typing. If you get a proper chair and desk and adjust your typing stance (yes, this is a thing), you can reduce wrist pain from RSI even without changing anything about your keyboard. Also, using touchscreens and using mice are way worse than the keyboard for you anyway.
The reason I responded the way I did to the parent, is that people who are hard typers are basically guaranteed to end up with RSI at some point in their life simply due to the strain of being a hard typer. As near as I can gather at this point, there's nothing you can do to train yourself to not be a hard typer. I'll be this way my entire life, but I can get tools that reduce its negative impacts.
[1]: https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/
I don't use clicky switches though, I don't think they are good.
It feels like people use them for the satisfying audio and tactile feedback rather than any genuine improvement in typing speed.
This is easily remedied by using a very lightweight switch. Many different mechanical switches are available from well under 45gf to actuation force. (Thinkpad and macbook laptop/desktop keyboard range from 60 to 65gf of actuation[1]) You can see a small set of available switches and their force actuation curves here: switches.mx. You should possibly look into getting a switch tester with many types of switches to get the exact feedback force you prefer.
There’s a ton more websites (theremingoat.com) and public github databases for this data.
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/ripometer
> It's really disrespectful to use a loud / mechanical keyboard in a public place, or really when anyone else is nearby.
It isn't. Public places come with noise. By this snippet, even speaking would be disrespectful in a public place.
> This lets folks use normal/good keyboards and still satisfy the weird craving some have for mechanical noises through their own headphones.
Good keyboards are subjective. It is weirdly reductive to refer to keyboard sounds as a craving.
> Probably will save some RSI surgeries too, people can use healthy low key travel keyboards instead of high travel mechanical switches, while still getting the clicking sound they want.
Low travel keyboards are not healthy. Regular keyboards are not unhealthy. There are not correlations between them. The nature of RSI means that experiences will differ and what works or doesn't work for you will not be the same for me.
Depends. Starbucks will be noisy, library won't. There are some shops that exist exactly for the purpose of being a quite place.
If you type loudly, people will give you weird looks. It is annoying. Speaking is much easier to filter out for most people.
Audible conversation is incredibly distracting - we put up with it in the workplace because workers need to collaborate and communicate. There's a reason it's heavily frowned upon in places where people intend to hear something specific (theatres, churches) or focus deeply (libraries).
Your Cherry MX Blue switches probably aren't going to be welcome in any of those spaces either though.
At least multiple conversations happening at once is easy to filter out. A single conversation in relative silence is certainly difficult.
(42k with 26 built in sounds)
IBM's "beam spring"-switch terminal keyboards had a solenoid, to make it sound like a typewriter: <https://youtu.be/tMOkhsHxA7U> (with modern controller)
Debian/ubuntu users: sudo apt install bucklespring all others: https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10265/
<https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2018-09-05%202...>
That the term essentially didn't exist (1/100 "interest") until Apple rolled it out in Sep 2020 (with some press the summer before).
The general idea of a 3D effect on headphones has been around for decades, often called "3D audio" or similar [1], but I never heard the term "spatial audio" until Apple marketed it.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_audio_effect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21AuWT1lDMc
There was something recently about hacks using actual sounds from a keyboard (which is an old thing) but someone commented that they had trained an AI in 30 minutes or so that had about 90% accuracy -- I think someone used this technique to hack a phone scam group too, just from listening to them typing over the phone as the scammer targeted them. Hot!
IF we're talking about the same article, the AI was trained from sounds recorded from a single phone, placed always in the same spot near a single computer that was being used by a single person.
My guess is that it can't generalize OR that for it to be a viable attack, you have to target a specific person and access a microphone always placed in the same spot near the target comuputer
If you like having money, don't get into mechanical keyboards.
Then I moved and the desk here is smaller. Not really enough room for an external monitor.
The mechanicalness wasn't quite compelling enough, I sold the keyboard, and don't currently own any external keyboards.
Maybe someday I'll get a better mechanical, but it seems like you really have to have a whole setup built around it to get the benefits.
Some keys (numeric keypad) are silent, which is odd, and makes me look at the keyboard wondering where did I put my fingers...
I used wev (Wayland xev) and some macros on Sway in past to use my touchpad with macros (macOS-like) but I guess these are going to count as keypresses.
- noticeable delay (between depressing key and sound)
- doesn't sound correct (it sounds like a typewriter not a computer keyboard)
- can it be turned off when a specific app is open (e.g. if Zoom/Teams is open, I don't want people hearing me type)
Are you sure about that? IIRC, all Model M keyboards say "1984" on them, but that's a copyright date, not the manufacturing date. There should be another inscription somewhere with the actual manufacturing date (day/month/year, not just year).
In fact, according to Wikipedia, Model Ms did not start production until 1985: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard
This app needs accessibility access in MacOS. The OS warns ominously: "Allow the applications below to control your computer". Did I just pay to install a keylogger?
I do the bulk of my typing on ancient Microsoft Natural Pro keyboards from the pre-/early 2000s era. (Though I'm trialing the Cloud Nine ergo split keyboards with some success...) Noise is inevitable. Not sure I'd pay for it if it didn't happen, er, naturally though.
new models of business should replace it, or even larger economic policy.
Higher tips enables new features.
Say you want keys that sound like lasers…well that’s a 25% tip!
I wrote something similar a few years ago so I could go through the process of making it into the app store. I didn't expect a lot (or any) sales.
(But I probably should have put it up on Hacker News so I could get all kinds of comments like yours.)
My wife might pay for an app that silences my keyboard, though.
No reason to use the app if you are not wearing headphones.