I feel like I need to preface this question: I’m in no way disparaging this program or interested in started a sociopolitical debate here.
Is there a similar program that a white male would qualify for? It looks interesting, but it’s apparently closed to me unless I lie by claiming to be something I’m not.
You’re asking a dangerous question. Most behind these initiatives act as if there are “white” people who are also not culturally underrepresented and do not inhabit lower socioeconomic levels. There are black folks who grew up in BelAir and white folks who grew up poor in Appalachia.
I say that as a “brown” minority, whose immigrant family were the minority even in their own country, who is apparently supposed to self-identify as Caucasian and would not qualify for this program because I’m not Black or Hispanic or Indigenous.
OP risk being misconstrued as being racist. The fact that the original question was asked in the first place really shows how ass-backwards American society has gotten, with reverse racism being rebranded as a virtue, aka "anti-racism".
To be honest, reading the OP at face value, I don't even think he we wanted to beg that question. (But I don't want to mind-read – I have a personal bias against mind-reading; I usually interpret things on the literal side is all.)
Racist only in the most technical sense of the word.
It's a matter of portions and percentages. Few people of color are rich, much less born rich, and far below their percentage of the population as a whole.
Noone’s being discriminated against in this program. This programme is specifically designed to assist people who have hit specific barriers due to their race or gender.
I’m sure if you’re being laughed out of VC meetings for being a white man, you can apply and Apple will accept you. But I doubt the’ll have any resources or advice for you given how improbable that scenario is.
> Noone’s being discriminated against in this program
Objectively, people are being discriminated against as the program only allows some races and genders. That’s textbook discrimination.
I think what your meaning is that the discrimination is intended positively to increase representation as opposed to other discrimination that is intended negatively due to hatred or exploitation.
Maybe my understanding of the definition of “discrimination” is incorrect then. I understood the definition to be “unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people”
Prejudicial means “ harmful to someone or something; detrimental” and this is harmful to individuals discriminated against. I think many, but not all, would find it is unjust as well.
I am a person of color and am not eligible for this program. Please explain.
Also, that you lump poor whites who grew up in the inner city with those who grew up wealthy in Palo Alto is shocking. That Palo Alto native likely has far more in common with their black neighbor.
You are advocating for racist policies. No matter how you slice
your identitarianism, you will never reach total inclusion, perpetually marginalizing and discriminating against minorities you may not even be aware of. Fight on, brother.
Are all of your social circles proportionally composed of genders and races representative of society? If so, why not?
If you are so concerned about proportional ratios, why are you not concerned about the many other minorities that are far more underrepresented than Blacks/Hispanics/Indigenous and that are not eligible for this program?
Ugh i hate to get involved in a thread that isn’t going anywhere but… yes?
My social circle is pretty balanced based on the gender/race breakdown of where I live. Not perfect, but a lot better than 85/15 of YC. I don’t try to maintain a ratio, but the world is roughly 50/50 male female so it seems easy enough that 50% of the people you meet would be from each group.
Why would it not be a similar red flag if you have 85% male friends? Idk how you’d do that unless you actively avoid making friends with women if you had 85% male friends.
Do you believe that you need special counselling on starting a business due to your struggle with the unique challenges of being a white male? Because that is what this is for.
No, I didn’t. I don’t recognize those problems being inherent traits of being a white man, which, again, is what this program aims for - training for members of minority groups that face challenges when founding a business due to their ethnicity or gender.
Assuming the grand parent comment is true to their word and they don’t mean it disparagingly, I think we can easily see what they mean.
After a quick glance here’s what’s being offered in this program:
- 1 year free of apple dev program (laughably little time in my view btw)
- seemingly 1 on 1 support with experienced devs to help you build your first app(s)
Yes, it’s good that being provided for underrepresented devs. But also, and I think this is what GP comment is asking, why isn’t this offered in a larger capacity?
As someone who paid Apple 400$ just to keep my dev license so people around the world could download my free apps while I was super poor in college.. I kinda feel where this person is coming from.
I agree with Apple nickle-and-diming in general – they talk about the "app economy" and the low barrier to entry into the App Store when it's annoyingly not so.
What GP is misunderstanding is that this isn’t a “here’s how to write good code” programme. This is a “what to do when you get told ‘a woman could never run a successful business’ in a VC meeting” programme.
That’s an odd choice of words. Sometimes folks just need access to education on a new topic… don’t know that it’s exclusively due to their “struggle” of being a person of gender X and race Y.
There are lots of opportunities for people that just need access to education already, but people who are not white, nor male, have a harder time taking them. Hence, here’s a program for those people.
That’s not all this program seems to offer. I’d specifically be interested in a way to be able to connect directly with engineers at Apple, and to others who are building things similar to what I’d be building. This program offers that.
For what it’s worth, I’d be willing to pay for it. Perhaps even a substantial amount.
Maybe a better approach would be to charge like $5k for the program, but have a “scholarship” system in place for these communities. Give them their own space to discuss issues important to them that aren’t relevant to those outside that community even.
As it is, I feel like this is creating separate systems for underrepresented groups. Regardless of how those groups are defined, we already know that “separate but equal”… isn’t.
> Is there a similar program that a white male would qualify for?
You can Google "startup communities" and find thousands. Often, a local startup community (like San Diego's istartupsd.org) will help you find your local programs and events. If your startup scene is nascent or non-existent, start with Meetup and/or start your own monthly event for like-minded people.
FWIW, underrepresented attendees can bring a colleague. I see no requirement that the colleague must also be underrepresented.
Smart name. I think if this was called “Apple Underrepresented Developer Camp” or something, it would be less effective and possibly seem a bit demeaning IMO. This is not about setting up some easy-track for only certain kinds of people. I don’t even think this confers any benefits beyond just a little community and collaboration with a single apple rep for only 1 year?
Calling it Entrepreneur Camp reflects better on what I assume is its goal: get more diverse entrepreneurs into Apple’s platforms. There’s many folks out there that would derive value from the confidence boost and community of like-people succeeding.
I’m interested in how orgs choose which underrepresented groups to target. This program works to improve female, black, indigenous, and Hispanic people.
But they don’t target (or allow really) non-binary or lgbt (except trans women are allowed). Or don’t allow Arab/middle-eastern persons. Etc etc.
I think it’s cool that an org as large as Apple is working to improve representation but am interested in what criteria are used to specify underrepresented.
Don’t take middle eastern people not being eligible for the programme as Apple refusing to label them underrepresented.
They choose which underrepresented groups to target based on the resources they have. If Apple didn’t have any non-binary people qualified to provide counselling, then they can’t offer support to them.
Hopefully they source experts externally in the future and expand this offering to more underrepresented groups.
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 106 ms ] threadIs there a similar program that a white male would qualify for? It looks interesting, but it’s apparently closed to me unless I lie by claiming to be something I’m not.
I say that as a “brown” minority, whose immigrant family were the minority even in their own country, who is apparently supposed to self-identify as Caucasian and would not qualify for this program because I’m not Black or Hispanic or Indigenous.
It’s racist.
It's a matter of portions and percentages. Few people of color are rich, much less born rich, and far below their percentage of the population as a whole.
I’m sure if you’re being laughed out of VC meetings for being a white man, you can apply and Apple will accept you. But I doubt the’ll have any resources or advice for you given how improbable that scenario is.
Objectively, people are being discriminated against as the program only allows some races and genders. That’s textbook discrimination.
I think what your meaning is that the discrimination is intended positively to increase representation as opposed to other discrimination that is intended negatively due to hatred or exploitation.
The same way 1960s Alabama was harmful to the people they refused to serve at the counter.
This program has benefit. Some people can’t apply, thus the harm.
Also, that you lump poor whites who grew up in the inner city with those who grew up wealthy in Palo Alto is shocking. That Palo Alto native likely has far more in common with their black neighbor.
You are advocating for racist policies. No matter how you slice your identitarianism, you will never reach total inclusion, perpetually marginalizing and discriminating against minorities you may not even be aware of. Fight on, brother.
The ratio isn’t all that great, CEO and partners are 85% male: https://www.ycombinator.com/people
If you are so concerned about proportional ratios, why are you not concerned about the many other minorities that are far more underrepresented than Blacks/Hispanics/Indigenous and that are not eligible for this program?
My social circle is pretty balanced based on the gender/race breakdown of where I live. Not perfect, but a lot better than 85/15 of YC. I don’t try to maintain a ratio, but the world is roughly 50/50 male female so it seems easy enough that 50% of the people you meet would be from each group.
Why would it not be a similar red flag if you have 85% male friends? Idk how you’d do that unless you actively avoid making friends with women if you had 85% male friends.
After a quick glance here’s what’s being offered in this program: - 1 year free of apple dev program (laughably little time in my view btw) - seemingly 1 on 1 support with experienced devs to help you build your first app(s)
Yes, it’s good that being provided for underrepresented devs. But also, and I think this is what GP comment is asking, why isn’t this offered in a larger capacity?
As someone who paid Apple 400$ just to keep my dev license so people around the world could download my free apps while I was super poor in college.. I kinda feel where this person is coming from.
What GP is misunderstanding is that this isn’t a “here’s how to write good code” programme. This is a “what to do when you get told ‘a woman could never run a successful business’ in a VC meeting” programme.
That’s an odd choice of words. Sometimes folks just need access to education on a new topic… don’t know that it’s exclusively due to their “struggle” of being a person of gender X and race Y.
For what it’s worth, I’d be willing to pay for it. Perhaps even a substantial amount.
Maybe a better approach would be to charge like $5k for the program, but have a “scholarship” system in place for these communities. Give them their own space to discuss issues important to them that aren’t relevant to those outside that community even.
As it is, I feel like this is creating separate systems for underrepresented groups. Regardless of how those groups are defined, we already know that “separate but equal”… isn’t.
You can Google "startup communities" and find thousands. Often, a local startup community (like San Diego's istartupsd.org) will help you find your local programs and events. If your startup scene is nascent or non-existent, start with Meetup and/or start your own monthly event for like-minded people.
FWIW, underrepresented attendees can bring a colleague. I see no requirement that the colleague must also be underrepresented.
Calling it Entrepreneur Camp reflects better on what I assume is its goal: get more diverse entrepreneurs into Apple’s platforms. There’s many folks out there that would derive value from the confidence boost and community of like-people succeeding.
Seems like a good idea to me.
But they don’t target (or allow really) non-binary or lgbt (except trans women are allowed). Or don’t allow Arab/middle-eastern persons. Etc etc.
I think it’s cool that an org as large as Apple is working to improve representation but am interested in what criteria are used to specify underrepresented.
They choose which underrepresented groups to target based on the resources they have. If Apple didn’t have any non-binary people qualified to provide counselling, then they can’t offer support to them.
Hopefully they source experts externally in the future and expand this offering to more underrepresented groups.
Can I come in from the cold?
It does seem odd that there are no sessions open to anyone.