"At one point in 2018, prosecutors said, Mr. Menendez texted “highly sensitive” information from the State Department about employees at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo to Ms. Menendez. She forwarded it to Mr. Hana, who forwarded it to an Egyptian government official."
Which evidence? Pictures of money, gold bars and a car? Everything I’ve read so far is tabloid like. The precedence has already been set. You can have an email server in a basement bathroom and share “highly sensitive” information with whomever you’d like and “no reasonable prosecutor” would bring charges.
Menendez is falling on the sword for someone else. It’s nothing more than a distraction. Ask yourself “why now, instead of 11 months ago?”
It just doesn’t make sense. One would think that someone under federal investigation isn’t going to leave out ill gotten money and gold bars… but here we are. Smart enough for global bribes but dumb enough not to cover up evidence of said crimes. Make it make sense. Just piss poor OPSEC?
That's a long time, I would love to know the breakdown on that. How long was he operating undetected vs how long was he operating after detection (while being monitoring/investigated)
Considering we haven't executed anyone for espionage or treason since Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, I seriously doubt that's a likely outcome for him, especially since someone you're going to execute has little incentive to cooperate with the counter-intelligence response.
Add it to the list of "things presidential candidates promise, but that the president doesn't have the capacity to implement". The death penalty is authorized by Congress; POTUS can tell the Justice Department not to do it or push for it in sentencing, but barring a legislative patch release the successor can always issue a new policy.
I agree and know this, it's more about how they are making promises they cannot keep. If Democrats ever get a majority in Congress again, and don't do it, however...
this isn't worth their time until they get through the big shit like poverty, healthcare reform, housing crisis / nimbyism, climate, homelessness, automation, etc.... world is on fire, I think a law like this is like what you tackle when you've solved poverty, climate change. world hunger, and homelessness
They aren't not trying [0]; it isn't the Democratic party that is blocking this.
On the other hand (and granted that the death penalty is a barbaric atrocity) I'm inclined to prefer the US federal government focus most of its reform efforts (even those contained to the justice system) on issues whose death rates average more than 0.25 people/year[1].
> It was literally very similar to the holocaust camps
They were within the scope of “concentration camps” as the term was used prior to being a euphemism for the Nazi extermination camps, and even compared to other examples of that class fairly mild.
They were bad, but I can’t imagine any reason to call them “holocaust camps” except to deliberately minimize the holocaust.
Megacide isn't a word. Yes, and I don't appreciate being patronized. I should've used the world concentration camps instead. I did say it was the PG version (Movie rating) to imply minus the mass murders. There was hate crimes, hate speech, Japanese not being allowed in certain businesses and the camps which were Nazi like (guards on the trains them, big fence like the Nazi camps).
I feel like I'm a Westworld episode, because there's the predictable snarky dismissive comments, and somehow eugenics was brought up.
Your skepticism is warranted: the last people put to death for espionage in the us was over 60 years ago - at the height of the cold war. Between case history and sentencing guidelines, we are nothing like China or Russia.
The US is far from perfect, but we're also a lot better than a lot of places.
Except, you know, the UK. Or France. Or Israel. Or... really any other country that has drone strike capabilities and uses them under the guise of a military operation.
b) I don't know if I agree "without severe consequences"
Listen, I agree that America and Canada etc aren't saints. And aren't blameless. And should be held accountable, and to high standards. 100% in agreement there!
But goodness gracious me, I come from a more interesting part of the world, and certainly not in the top 10 interesting parts of the world, but enough that it feels those who say "America is just as bad! It's just as bad here!", don't have sufficient appreciation (and good on them!) for the atrocities human beings can, and routinely do, inflict upon each other, and the scale at which they do so.
There are scales. There are degrees and types and kinds and details. And painting everything binary I feel does not help in making the world better place.
Well, they want to maximize the "deterrent" aspect of the law.
This guy is probably going to get designated as a spy, I doubt he's executed. He's a chip in negotiations with the Ethiopians over something, maybe something with Tigray. If a Russian became a US citizen and got busted doing this, he'd be considered a Russian spy and swapped for something or someone.
I could easily find this guy's LinkedIn profile, a profile which includes his past government-related jobs, and I'm wondering why would people make that stuff public?
Or maybe I asked the wrong question and the correct one should have been: Why would the U.S. Department of State or the U.S Department of Justice allow their employees/contractors to make that contractual information public to the world, including to state entities that are adversarial to the US Government?
So is Dalke not also charged with espionage? He attempted to transmit messages to a foreign agent (who happened to actually be FBI). So maybe his incompetence makes his crimes less severe? I was under the impression that he also sent documents to a Discord group, and that there were foreigners in that group.
He could face the death penalty, the title and article say the same with respect to this. It hasn't been determined whether he will face the death penalty. It could go the same way as with Dalke.
Who was the last spy executed? The Rosenbergs? Aldrich Ames and Robert Hansen are considered the two most damaging spies in history, and both of them got sentenced to life in prison. Times like this, I'm reminded of Ken White's (aka Popehat's) comment about how federal sentencing guidelines actually work.
The important thing to note about federal sentencing guidelines is that they are, like the Pirate Cose, more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules.
Departures in both directions are permitted, so particularly sui generis cases, like Trump, might end up anywhere in the range permitted by law independent of the guidelines, without a lot of clear indication of where.
Are the people who allowed all of this to happen getting the same treatment though? Because how the hell was this person able to modify documents, and exfiltrate them from secured facilities? At best, this is a level of incompetence that requires a staff rotation with dishonorable discharge for everyone involved, and at worst these folks were complicit.
they probably should have better security on document storage but if an agent that's trusted stays later than others in his dept, how would the others be liable the system if securing docs sure, but even Donald Trump made it out with boxes of top secret docs, negligence isn't complicity either.
it could be they used camera in the guys glasses that nobody would even realize he's taking pictures. all he has to do is read a document to snap a pic, it's not necessarily like he had to use a smartphone all conspicuous like.
By having a process in place where a single person can't ever be in a position where they can walk out with top secret documents. Clearance is not the same as trust.
58 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 295 ms ] thread"At one point in 2018, prosecutors said, Mr. Menendez texted “highly sensitive” information from the State Department about employees at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo to Ms. Menendez. She forwarded it to Mr. Hana, who forwarded it to an Egyptian government official."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/24/nyregion/robert-menendez-...
Menendez is falling on the sword for someone else. It’s nothing more than a distraction. Ask yourself “why now, instead of 11 months ago?”
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/state/2022/10/28/bob-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity
Criminals are dumb.
If it hadn't been... would you have ever heard about it?
There's a kind of survivorship bias going on here, not just in terms of which criminals get caught, but which allegations get public visibility.
That's a long time, I would love to know the breakdown on that. How long was he operating undetected vs how long was he operating after detection (while being monitoring/investigated)
Did they break the encryption or access the communications through device exploits (once in plaintext).
He'll get a few decades if he cooperates, and life if not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_imprisoned_spies
https://archive.globalpolicy.org/iraq-conflict-the-historica...
Though it did occur within a territory unlawfully invaded by, and occupied at the time by, the United States.
Will Biden ever follow through on his promise of abolishing the penalty? Possible campaign topic again.
On the other hand (and granted that the death penalty is a barbaric atrocity) I'm inclined to prefer the US federal government focus most of its reform efforts (even those contained to the justice system) on issues whose death rates average more than 0.25 people/year[1].
[0] https://pressley.house.gov/2023/07/13/pressley-durbin-reintr...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_by_the...
They were within the scope of “concentration camps” as the term was used prior to being a euphemism for the Nazi extermination camps, and even compared to other examples of that class fairly mild.
They were bad, but I can’t imagine any reason to call them “holocaust camps” except to deliberately minimize the holocaust.
Typical HN snarky dismissive comments and as per eugenics was brought up.
Equating the two is utterly despicable.
I feel like I'm a Westworld episode, because there's the predictable snarky dismissive comments, and somehow eugenics was brought up.
The US is far from perfect, but we're also a lot better than a lot of places.
- i compared to the same countries you compared to :)
- as for assange: "The US is far from perfect"
b) I don't know if I agree "without severe consequences"
Listen, I agree that America and Canada etc aren't saints. And aren't blameless. And should be held accountable, and to high standards. 100% in agreement there!
But goodness gracious me, I come from a more interesting part of the world, and certainly not in the top 10 interesting parts of the world, but enough that it feels those who say "America is just as bad! It's just as bad here!", don't have sufficient appreciation (and good on them!) for the atrocities human beings can, and routinely do, inflict upon each other, and the scale at which they do so.
There are scales. There are degrees and types and kinds and details. And painting everything binary I feel does not help in making the world better place.
It is always the maximum punishable by the law and they never, ever cite the actual sentencing guidelines or look at prior comparable cases.
This guy is probably going to get designated as a spy, I doubt he's executed. He's a chip in negotiations with the Ethiopians over something, maybe something with Tigray. If a Russian became a US citizen and got busted doing this, he'd be considered a Russian spy and swapped for something or someone.
Or maybe I asked the wrong question and the correct one should have been: Why would the U.S. Department of State or the U.S Department of Justice allow their employees/contractors to make that contractual information public to the world, including to state entities that are adversarial to the US Government?
https://popehat.substack.com/p/beware-the-flood-of-trump-sen...
Departures in both directions are permitted, so particularly sui generis cases, like Trump, might end up anywhere in the range permitted by law independent of the guidelines, without a lot of clear indication of where.
it could be they used camera in the guys glasses that nobody would even realize he's taking pictures. all he has to do is read a document to snap a pic, it's not necessarily like he had to use a smartphone all conspicuous like.