These "incredibly cheap" prices have been available for a long time if you could deal with the interface, language and shipping hassles of AliExpress /Alibaba/Taobao, Temu just wraps it in a pretty UI with some shipping hacks on top.
Story time: I was recently looking for a cover for my car. Local retailers wanted $200+, but a spot of image reverse searching revealed that you could buy exactly the same thing direct from the manufacturer for $2 (two) dollars. However, minimum order on Alibaba was 10 pieces and shipping price & timeline was unclear. I ended up ordering from Temu for ~$30 all in, and it was on my doorstep in under a week.
Prices on alibaba (and sometimes AliExpress) are a bit misleading as the shipping prices are excessive (and change depending on the model) so you should always look at the total sum
Ali got really expensive over the years. Especially in the ultralight hiking community there are/were some really good gear choices for a bargain (Aegismax, IceFlame quilts and 3F UL equipment amongst others).
I don't know for the US, but in Europe they got expensive over the year because they had to comply with import taxes, warranty and now are shipping a lot of products directly from europe.
Who remember the good old days where anything from aliexpress would pass the customs without taxes, even on expensive products (phone/hightech) ?
I always wondered if they had not an arrangment with the shipper/customs. Because at the time, anything from say a store like hobbyking, even small package worth a few dozens €, was always flagged at the customs.
Big retail chains in my country used to have their own agents in Hong Kong that bought Chinese products by the container load. They then put a nice profit on it in their stores.
The internet just made people aware how much they were overpaying for this stuff.
I for one am happy for those Chinese who are now able to cut out the white middleman.
> Local retailers wanted $200+, but a spot of image reverse searching revealed that you could buy exactly the same thing direct from the manufacturer for $2
Local shop sells sunglasses for $15, I found them on aliexpress for 50ct, and on etsy for $27
80% of what you see on etsy and amazon is aliexpress dropship, and it's leaking in the real world at a fast rate too.
what is so irritating is how many times you google for something specific and the exact thing you're looking for comes up on temu, but not on "proper" stores.
Also - my mum bothering me every few days about something she's found on temu, and me trying my hardest to get her to stay off it.
I like to think that the generous money I get from Tech is as much a responsibility as it is a luxury. I try to avoid mega retailers like Alibaba, Temu, Amazon and Walmart. In my mind, it's less to do with getting better costumer service or anything, but rather that if everyone puts their money in the same place then companies get too big and distort economies.
I find this noble and do some similar tiny acts of defiance myself, but if we're being real it doesn't move the needle. The avg behavior has to change to affect their bottom lines, and your personal spending (even with advocacy) is not likely to meaningfully affect the mean. Supply side changes are needed, whether by way of regulation or emergent competition.
It's not intended to invalidate the approach (again, I participate in the same manner as OP). But free-market capitalism's (well studied) failure mode is natural monopoly and _that_ really can't be fixed without further intervention. Preventing megacorp monopoly isn't something you can do by simply swaying the individual's dollar vote. Or maybe I'm missing some example in history?
Yeah there is no way to coordinate a critical mass of wallet-votes to convince companies to change, especially as long as their prime offering (pun intended) is convenience. There are people on this very website who will openly admit to comprehending the problematic nature of their participation in such systems and yet still justify it openly on the grounds that they have too much money to care and value their own time over the suffering of others.
Systemic problems require systemic solutions. To preempt an obvious rebuttal: shaping the landscape of choices that are available to consumers is literally how markets work so it's not like libertarians or other "free" market fanatics have a high horse when we introduce ideas like regulations on corporate behavior.
IMO the same could be said about voting. If someone states that they voted for (in this case with their wallet) for a worthwhile cause I wouldn't respond to it by reminding them about the insignificance of a single vote.
In your example my comment is intended to read "I vote because it has local impact, but don't forget that it's not enough to only vote. The underlying system is flawed and big strides can't happen without fundamental realignment of incentives."
Well they can become big and turn into utilities...think electricity, water, gas, post office etc.
I think beyond a point govt should just buy a stake in them. That would keep them from misbehaving too much. Which is what happens in China, India, Brazil etc cause otherwise large poor populations will just be pushed out of markets.
The last few times I found something on Temu and thought it was cheap, I went to Amazon and found the same thing as cheap or cheaper with Prime shipping and free returns.
It could be a strategy by the Chinese government to cut out the non Chinese retail companies and distributors that take 35%-70% of the revenue from each product.
Very little money goes to sellers. Sellers in China complain they are forced to lower prices or risk being kicked off the platform. The profit margins for sellers basically don’t exist while Temu aims for #1 shopping app spot.
Living in a country where Amazon never managed to get a foot in I would replace Amazon with AliExpress to say the same. Faster shipping & better customer service/refund policy
Temu is also spending a lot of money advertising in New Zealand. The catalog is minimal and when they do have what I want it's terrible quality. Aliexpress has all the same low quality products but often mid-range and Chinese brand name products as well.
The search is terrible, it seems the app is built around getting you to impulse buy dollar store gadgets.
That's Chinese Apps for you. I haven't tried TEMU yet, but the typical Chinese App opens a popup on you in what feels like every fucking second. Even something like Baidu Maps shoves an ad into your face every time you switch to another app and then back. It reminds me of early 2000s Internet, before popup/ad blockers.
Going through HN top list today on a machine with no ad blocker I see the same in pretty much all US sites: Cookie popup that is clearly illegal, lots of ads, cookies and trackers (189 on one site), then some JavaScript pop-up about whatever (newsletter mostly) when moving the mouse outside the frame. It is not any better. At most more polished but likely we are just used to it. Good thing I have adblockers in both my normal machines browser and on the firewall.
I made just 1 order from Temu until today. Unlike Aliexpress, Temu doesn't seem to pay any tax or customs in my EU country. I don't get it how they can get away with it.
That is not the case with Aliexpress and EU countries for some time now (since July 1 2021).
There's been a deal at EU level with Ali that it includes local VAT at checkout, for items of lower value.
AFAIK they have warehouses in europe. The import duty is paid, which can be a real hassle with other chinese imports (e.g. you 'd have to go to a post office to pay the duties)
"according to cybersecurity researchers, it can also bypass users’ cell phone security to monitor activities on other apps, check notifications, read private messages and change settings.
And once installed, it’s tough to remove."
“We haven’t seen a mainstream app like this trying to escalate their privileges to gain access to things that they’re not supposed to gain access to,” said Mikko Hyppönen, chief research officer at WithSecure, a Finnish cybersecurity firm.
“This is highly unusual, and it is pretty damning for Pinduoduo.”
"Soon after, on March 5, Pinduoduo issued a new update of its app, version 6.50.0, which removed the exploits, according to two experts who CNN spoke to.
Two days after the update, Pinduoduo disbanded the team of engineers and product managers who had developed the exploits, according to the Pinduoduo source.
[..]
Most of the team were transferred to work at Temu. "
Uh, I'm not understanding your snark:
It's established that a Chinese app was utilizing 0 days and escalating priveledges to exfiltrate data. Most of that team was then transferred to work on the Temu app.
According to you, this is not at exciting to the "crowd" as pointing out that these Chinese apps are stealing data?
If you would bother to read what previous commenter had put, you would find that engineering team was relieved of duties shortly.
Chinese apps steal data no less then their western counterparts do. It's just politically beneficial to do fingerpointing at China. Assange and Snowden tried to do same with US - with unfortunate and known results.
I believe you are the one not reading (hint, read the line after the part you find so enamoring):
"Two days after the update, Pinduoduo disbanded the team of engineers and product managers who had developed the exploits, according to the Pinduoduo source.
[..]
Most of the team were transferred to work at Temu. "
>Chinese apps steal data no less then their western counterparts do.
The whataboutism you add doesn't strengthen your argument. Also, source for American apps using 0 days to escalate privileges, please.
Came here to say this. Two of my friends work in chargebacks and have said it's a disturbing trend, their customers having to have their cards replaced very shortly after ordering from Temu.
If you still want to order, do it with a masked card number.
I don't see those cheap prices advertised everywhere. I see very high discounts in which the final price ends up being the same price as on Aliexpress.
If it looks too good to be true, it usually is. It's sad how many people have forgotten this simple aphorism, perhaps due to years, decades even, of free products such as Gmail/Docs and Facebook.
Anyone with this app on their phone should read this recent post here
The title had me click away instantly. The "US security threat!" is always clickbait, even if true, as it is not a title that tells you any information but try to force readers to read on because of fear. It is fox news style in other words.
> The app and website are an assault on the senses
The website is just like anything else, with cheaper aesthetics. I don't understand the use of loaded language here (addictive / controversial). Is it just because it's chinese? Ebay sells the same stuff
It's so weird when all the blame is on apps like Temu and people still willingly buy the same shit with a 1000% markup on Amazon with less customer service than AliExpress. Or on eBay with even less service, a little less markup but often even worse shipping times than buying directly from china yourself.
Markup doesn't necessarily means "greedy marketer". Sometimes it is localisation, post sale support, warranty, etc. Surprisingly as it may be, it costs money.
this “assault on senses” is normal in these Chinese/Asian shopping apps, even the more “standard” ones. I know more the SEA ones than Chinese ones but they are all like this.
I don’t know who likes it, but it obviously works, as everyone over there is doing it.
Most of the things sold in the west come from Asia, most of it from China. Virtually nothing large scale is made locally anymore besides a few niche industries
They export their garbage. They keep the good stuff for themselves.
Domestic Chinese products are way better than the crap Americans buy for ourselves. Chinese clothes are way more durable than Target's overpriced rags (i.e. they can be mended). Huawei tech beats the pants off of everything short of Apple.
I have been using Temu recently for electronic components. There are some reasonable value kits of resistors, LEDs, breadboards, etc that I use in my workshop.
Everyone in this thread is discussing economics. What about safety and reliability? It’s my understanding that Wish, Temu, and other low cost Chinese etailers sell a ton of counterfeit, bootleg goods with phony safety certifications (if any). Are the days of lead paint in toys, cheap batteries that explode, toxic drywall, makeup with arsenic in it, and the like over in China?
When the same stuff is sold on Amazon with 2x to 10x markup, it doesn't magically become safer, non-counterfeit or certified. Everyone is discussing economics because it's the only difference between ordering on Aliexpress/Taobao/Temu directly, and buying from Amazon/Ebay/Etsy/etc.
> “At the same time, Temu and Shein are building empires around the de minimis loophole in our import rules – dodging import taxes and evading scrutiny on the millions of goods they sell to Americans.”
I guess I'm the only one who actually enjoys Temu here. Do your research and you'll find great deals on their site. Half the stuff on Amazon is dropshipped from China anyways, why not cut out the middleman?
86 comments
[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 192 ms ] threadStory time: I was recently looking for a cover for my car. Local retailers wanted $200+, but a spot of image reverse searching revealed that you could buy exactly the same thing direct from the manufacturer for $2 (two) dollars. However, minimum order on Alibaba was 10 pieces and shipping price & timeline was unclear. I ended up ordering from Temu for ~$30 all in, and it was on my doorstep in under a week.
I always wondered if they had not an arrangment with the shipper/customs. Because at the time, anything from say a store like hobbyking, even small package worth a few dozens €, was always flagged at the customs.
I for one am happy for those Chinese who are now able to cut out the white middleman.
Local shop sells sunglasses for $15, I found them on aliexpress for 50ct, and on etsy for $27
80% of what you see on etsy and amazon is aliexpress dropship, and it's leaking in the real world at a fast rate too.
They run a program directly for Chinese manufacturers to sell in US Amazon and even bulk ship their goods on Amazon chattered freighters.
Also - my mum bothering me every few days about something she's found on temu, and me trying my hardest to get her to stay off it.
Systemic problems require systemic solutions. To preempt an obvious rebuttal: shaping the landscape of choices that are available to consumers is literally how markets work so it's not like libertarians or other "free" market fanatics have a high horse when we introduce ideas like regulations on corporate behavior.
> if everyone puts their money in the same place then companies get too big and distort economies.
You're not going to make the big companies smaller or prevent market distortions by doing this. That's what I was referring to by "move the needle."
I think beyond a point govt should just buy a stake in them. That would keep them from misbehaving too much. Which is what happens in China, India, Brazil etc cause otherwise large poor populations will just be pushed out of markets.
they may not have guts but they aint stupid
It could be a strategy by the Chinese government to cut out the non Chinese retail companies and distributors that take 35%-70% of the revenue from each product.
The search is terrible, it seems the app is built around getting you to impulse buy dollar store gadgets.
All I've seen is that they take a hit, sometimes send some extra stuff and constantly ignore/refund charging complaints.
Seems they're losing money but nobody has definitively told me why.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lossleader.asp#:~:text=...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/02/tech/china-pinduoduo-malware-...
"according to cybersecurity researchers, it can also bypass users’ cell phone security to monitor activities on other apps, check notifications, read private messages and change settings.
And once installed, it’s tough to remove."
“We haven’t seen a mainstream app like this trying to escalate their privileges to gain access to things that they’re not supposed to gain access to,” said Mikko Hyppönen, chief research officer at WithSecure, a Finnish cybersecurity firm.
“This is highly unusual, and it is pretty damning for Pinduoduo.”
"Soon after, on March 5, Pinduoduo issued a new update of its app, version 6.50.0, which removed the exploits, according to two experts who CNN spoke to.
Two days after the update, Pinduoduo disbanded the team of engineers and product managers who had developed the exploits, according to the Pinduoduo source.
[..]
Most of the team were transferred to work at Temu. "
According to you, this is not at exciting to the "crowd" as pointing out that these Chinese apps are stealing data?
Chinese apps steal data no less then their western counterparts do. It's just politically beneficial to do fingerpointing at China. Assange and Snowden tried to do same with US - with unfortunate and known results.
"Two days after the update, Pinduoduo disbanded the team of engineers and product managers who had developed the exploits, according to the Pinduoduo source.
[..]
Most of the team were transferred to work at Temu. "
>Chinese apps steal data no less then their western counterparts do.
The whataboutism you add doesn't strengthen your argument. Also, source for American apps using 0 days to escalate privileges, please.
You are right - it was my mistake.
> The whataboutism you add doesn't strengthen your argument.
Where did you see "whataboutism" - whatever that is - I'll leave to you.
So Temu is just new lipstick on the same pig.
If you still want to order, do it with a masked card number.
Anyone with this app on their phone should read this recent post here
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37427008
e.g. buying latest iPhones with 10% off, when genuine ensured.
The website is just like anything else, with cheaper aesthetics. I don't understand the use of loaded language here (addictive / controversial). Is it just because it's chinese? Ebay sells the same stuff
But if you buy Amazon warehoused china products, with the kinda bad service from Amazon you are just getting a worse deal for the same product.
I don’t know who likes it, but it obviously works, as everyone over there is doing it.
Makes my head explode, and I just walk away. But many people just can't. The overload is a rush for them.
Seeing how shit _everything_ coming out of China is, I'm not worried.
Domestic Chinese products are way better than the crap Americans buy for ourselves. Chinese clothes are way more durable than Target's overpriced rags (i.e. they can be mended). Huawei tech beats the pants off of everything short of Apple.
https://apnews.com/article/temu-shein-forced-labor-china-de7...
> imported packages valued under $800 receive tax exemptions and less oversight from U.S. customs.