> The 37C3 is guaranteed to take place unless prohibited by the authorities. All official infection control regulations will of course be implemented. The CCC asks all participants to consider their own awareness of the health risks of large events before purchasing a ticket. Participants with cold symptoms are requested not to attend the event.
This will keep quite a few people e.g. with existing health conditions or long covid from attending. There are still open conferences that keep Public Health Pledge [0] or similar into account for inclusion and to avoid being mass spreading events.
There will be an infection control concept for the congress itself, but that's not fully planned as of yet.
Many CCC spaces currently require proof of vaccination, daily testing and rigorous masking, and while Congress will likely be a less strict, you can expect similar rules nonetheless.
> Now at least some care is taken, and some spaces bought and configured large air filter systems to allow unmasking without infection risk.
You mean reduced infection risk. It's impossible to eliminate completely. And my gut feeling tells me that most people overestimate the amount of risk reduction caused by these air filters.
> Crazy to see those types of measures still in place as we’re more than half-way through 2023.
Just because politicians have "declared" the pandemic over, it is by far not over yet - we are still seeing significant excess mortality [1], and across Germany many companies are complaining about significant amounts of people on sick leave, most noticeably in public transit. Guess where that comes from... it's a lot of Covid.
SARS-CoV-2 is an incredibly dangerous virus and way too many people aren't even doing air purifiers any more because these are "too expensive to run" and whatnot.
i think the pandemic is really over, it is endemic. I wonder when we will get back to baseline or whether we will have to live with deadlier virus than what's usual for some time. Just keep in mind that the flu isn't as harmless as it's usually portrait. Older or otherwise more vulnerable parts of the population died every year, with some really bad years. It's in some way part of life, a risk is always present.
But looking at the statistics in your link it is not that obvious, as it looks like the excess mortality slowly converges to zero.
Considering covid safety measures also help avoid the flu, the common cold, Norovirus and RSV, it'd be wise if we as society found a way to keep them up even if COVID becomes endemic.
Especially considering how with every previous congress the congress flu had infected the vast majority of participants and caused them to be bedridden for the 1-2 weeks after.
It’s the new normal, the virus is here to stay. I’ve already had it like most people and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to give my immune system practice.
Source on "vast majority"? Maybe CCC is the exception, but getting sick after going to a conference is definitely not the norm. I'd guess prevalence is ~1% based on my anecdotal evidence knowing people who attend conferences every month.
> Maybe CCC is the exception, but getting sick after going to a conference is definitely not the norm.
It's very common if you have a high number of international participants. In Munich, the most nasty occurrence has its own name: "Wiesngrippe", named after the Oktoberfest which serves as a living petri dish with millions of people, but it's also common after the huge trade fairs (e.g. Bauma).
Service staff are hit hardest because many of them don't take off days if they're sick - they power through for as long as they can (because they can make above 15.000€ in the two weeks!) and end up spreading all the germs around.
In addition to that, SARS-CoV-2 is suspected to be able to induce immune amnesia similar to what can be observed after measles - anecdotally, I've been incredibly sensitive towards anything from the common cold to outright influenza ever since I caught COVID last year. It's no fun to travel anywhere when you know you'll catch some bug because yet another moron decided to not at least wear a mask or stay home when sick.
Is that a yes? My question was not a rhetorical one.
I occasionally read his blog, but "right-wing extremist" would not be one of the words I'd use to describe his content. I know nothing about his following. IIRC he is also vaccinated so not sure where this is headed.
Are you looking to exclude entire nationalities of people from attending? For instance, in Finland it is not possible to receive another booster unless you are elderly or in a vulnerable risk group.
I mean, that goes for a lot of big social events (wrt existing health conditions); immunocompromised people have always been at risk for that kinda stuff, even before COVID.
It feels a tad absurd to demand following what are arguably unnecessary extra regulations at this point (vaccines have been made widely available for the majority of the populace; Germany has a non-booster vaccination rate of 72%, about 6% above the usual 2/3rds you need for herd immunity to kick in; 62% has at least one booster[0] - these are rates somewhat consistent across most of Europe at that[1] and purely anecdotally speaking, C3 leans heavily European in attendance).
The insistence that masking up as a requirement is still necessary as if we're on the peak of COVID just strikes me as odd (and tends to not translate well outside online spaces anyway - good luck convincing people that masks are necessary when most of them took the vaccine the moment they could specifically so that life could get back to normal and they didn't need to mask up all the time; for most people, COVID as a pandemic ended when they got their vaccination). If you want to do it on your own terms, sure, nobody will stop you (in fact I think the world could learn a bit from the general tedency of masking up if they have a cold like they do in countries such as Japan out of general politeness) but to request events keep doing it for everyone is a bit silly. Following government regulations is the right call here.
But what does "majority of people also got their second shot" even mean now? - my last one was in late 2021 and my mom (a senior) has gotten like 5 overall.
Also I've not even seen anything in the news lately, so maybe I'm just not looking at the right places but right now I am honestly not even sure if I should be getting more shots, or other ones, based on how the situation has developed in... about 22 months.
My point being: I am simply not sure if these last 2 years haven't changed how we looked at the vaccination numbers back then, because e.g. omicron even came after people were still pushing for this "basic immunization".
The problem with adopting requirements more stringent than national requirements is that many people may not be able to comply. As an example, one of the things this site suggests as an option is "Require vaccines, including boosters".
In my country at least (UK), it's not yet possible for an individual to pay to have a booster and so the only way of getting another vaccine shot is for free via the NHS. However, this is only available if you are sufficiently old (I believe over 50) or in a "vulnerable group", so teachers, someone working in healthcare, or someone who has a pre-existing medical condition that makes them more likely to have more severe effects. So, far from making it more open to all, this suggestion massively limits the potential attendee pool.
Of course, the other suggestions like not attending if you have any symptoms or having negative test results, seem like good steps in the right direction.
Masking is another issue - maybe it'd be OK for a 1 day event, but personally, I wouldn't attend a 3 day event if I had to wear a mask the whole time, because they are uncomfortable for prolonged periods. I was super vigilant during and after COVID and always wore a mask when I would encounter people, but because I didn't enjoy wearing a mask, I decided it was better to largely stay at home where I didn't need to interact with people instead. I'm happy to agree that the preference to not wear a mask is selfish, but it's still an interesting question on how many people would choose to not attend because they don't want 3 days of discomfort compared to how many vulnerable people would choose to attend if everyone was wearing masks. My gut feeling is that people who are that vulnerable would still rather stay away and avoid crowds because there would still be a non-zero risk, but equally I can see that some people might be glad for an opportunity to finally do something in a larger group that's safer than normal larger groups.
>Masking is another issue - maybe it'd be OK for a 1 day event, but personally, I wouldn't attend a 3 day event if I had to wear a mask the whole time, because they are uncomfortable for prolonged periods.
I guess it's all of matter of circumstance: as an anesthesiology resident/attending/private practitioner from 1977-2015, I normally wore a mask in the OR all day and sometimes all night.
It never occurred to me that this was uncomfortable — it was like a fish in water: this is the life I had chosen.
He's probably talking about the KN95/FFP2 kind of masks which were mandatory in Austria and Germany. Those are really uncomfortable for prelonged wear.
Again, it all depends on your frame of reference. I wore an N95 mask all day when I was out and about during the worst of the epidemic and didn't find it at all uncomfortable.
I usually wear an FFP3 at CCC events when I'm in an enclosed space. The only issues I've had so far is when carrying heavy loads (we need Engel, btw!) I sometimes soak the mask in sweat so quickly that I need to replace it every hour.
But the mask itself, if worn properly, provides no discomfort whatsoever.
Teach me. I'm at an event right now (not CCC obviously) and wearing a mask for some hours and it's killing, making me look for any opportunity to get outside and take it off for five minutes. It pulls on both ears, pushes onto the bridge of my nose (that issue seems to be this particular mask though), and depending on how I adjust it, either shoots jets or air into my eyes or onto my glasses and fogging them up. How does one wear this "properly"?
Not like you can turn it upside down or inside out, I'm not sure what options I have? I've tried one of these plastic things for behind your head, so it doesn't have to hold onto the ears directly, but that trades added nose hurt for reduced ear hurt.
This has been the case with all masks in the past years btw, so unless there's a secret brand, I'd not guess it's brand related. The thing has to be somewhat leak-proof for it to work so that seemed to make sense to me
It's not like this is mandatory atm, just trying to do the right thing (most people don't wear one)...
You will note that, unlike the masks most people wear, it goes around the head, not over the ears, and employs not one but two flat rubber head straps.
IMHO ear-mounted masks cannot possible be as closely fitting over the face and effective as those that go over the head.
I first saw this mask in a photo of President Biden, who was wearing one.
I figured if it was good enough for him and his advisers it was plenty good enough for me.
I use these as well (3M Aura). They are much more comfortable than the more common types of FFP2 masks and I can wear them for prolonged periods of time without issue, but I would not classify them as “no discomfort whatsoever”. Also, they have a very good fit – other FFP2 masks I had to fiddle around with quite a bit to get a good seal around my nose.
A very important thing is that at least for some types of 3M Aura (the 9320+, at least), the nose clip is significantly stronger than that of cheap masks. So if you're used to pushing it onto your nose very strongly with cheap masks, you need to unlearn that with the Aura masks, or it will obstruct your breathing and become very uncomfortable.
With the Aura masks (at least those with a strong clip), it's not necessary to push it down very strongly; you just need to lightly shape it, and then the strength of the clip will ensure that it stays in shape, and the foam around the nose will ensure a good seal.
It seems to take some practice to find the right clip shape, but once you've found it, they're quite comfortable IMO - and most of the time I've seen people complain about discomfort with these masks, it seems to be because of the nose clip being too tight.
First off, I use FFP3 instead of FFP2 because FFP3 masks usually have a strip of foam that sticks to your skin all around the mask. This means all air breathed in or out is forced through the filter of the mask, preventing fogging of the glasses.
These strips stop adhering to the skin, and in turn let air through, when they're soaked in sweat, so you'll have to swap masks somewhat regularly if you're physically active (e.g., volunteering at a chaos event — we still need Engel!)
Second, I use masks with two straps, both going on the back of your head. This prevents the mask from pulling on your ears, improves positioning and decreases the chance of the mask slipping.
I personally can recommend the 3M Aura, the Dräger FFP3 masks, and the JFM04 from Siegmund
I tried volunteering the last two congresses, figuring I'd do my share instead of only making use of the volunteer efforts. The first year, a task came up and I went to the angel desk but they weren't sure what the task was supposed to be or where it was supposed to be or something. I was told to hang around for a while but nothing came of it. Nothing further ever came up, tasks either required training (which might be fine, but there wasn't time for that training anymore) or were already being done by others the second they become available. The second year I occasionally checked the open tasks but same story.
The system is overflowing with angels there for the free food, the ticket vouchers, the crew t-shirts, and the camaraderie. Maybe you mean on other CCC events, or during buildup more than a day before the start? (I'm always there on day zero, when the place is relatively empty but most things are set up.)
It’s probably known by now but just in case if not: they’re dramatically nicer to wear without facial hair. Not just “no beard”, the most comfortable I had them (KN95) was from whenever I fully shaved up to a “medium stubble”.
Hehe, I've never heard that but during COVID I had a MASSIVE beard, like some crazy sea captain or something! I figured if I was hiding away at home and would rarely been seen by other people, it was a perfect time to go try and grow out a long beard! Since the end of restrictions, the beard is a more normal cropped length, but still probably what most people would consider "full", so possibly this is partially an explanation as I've never experienced wearing a mask without a beard.
I did not know that! But I heard that a beard makes the thing useless because that's just where the air will pass unfiltered, and I don't have / never had a beard so that's not the problem for me. Thanks though!
I'm fairly big (and maybe compounded with a beard), so the ear straps always felt tight, and in fact I've had several masks break on the strap join as well as just being uncomfortable. I also dislike the way airflow is restricted (more noticeable if I ever walked fast for a period of time) and just that generally my mouth and nose would feel hot after about 30 minutes and when I took them off, they'd feel damp which always made me think it'd be an ideal place for bacteria to grow if I was wearing it all day.
Probably though, my total mask wearing for most of COVID was about an hour a week when doing shopping, so it was relatively easy just to put up with it. And whilst I did continue wearing a mask for shopping for about 4 months after restrictions were lifted, it was just because I prioritised minimising my exposure over comfort - I actually hated the experience and only put the mask on when getting within about 25m of other people and took them off as soon as possible when I was safely away from people again.
The not over ear, but around the head instead masks that someone else mentioned sound like a good idea, but I've never seen them in the UK, so I never even knew such a thing existed.
I've tried about 3 different designs of masks of the "normal" type, but apart from some having worse joins on the straps, they all seemed about the same in discomfort. I also had some of the thick KN95 masks, and actually found them better than normal masks - although it was harder to breath in them and was a bit hotter, because there was more space between the face and the mask, it didn't feel as squashed.
>The not over ear, but around the head instead masks that someone else mentioned sound like a good idea, but I've never seen them in the UK, so I never even knew such a thing existed.
CCC was cancelled last year because of this and they are still making a big deal out of it this year.
Why? The rest of German society doesn't care. I live in Denmark and have been to plenty of social events in Germany in 2022 and 2023. Nobody cares anymore. Why does the CCC?
Even last December there weren't any regulations in Germany that would have prevented the congress.
It was a weird time last December: After the cancellation of the congress was announced, there was a large congress of intensive care workers in Germany where the attendees were going around mostly maskless. I mean, who would be better at estimating the risks?
I also don't understand why the German hacker scene was and still is so much in favor Covid restrictions. There are hackerspaces that still require N95 masks today while in the general population nobody cares anymore. I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene.
> I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene.
Completely agree. At the beginning of the pandemic, people who opposed the restrictions were considered selfish and showing a lack of solidarity, if not harmful. It quickly turned out that right-leaning people were more likely to oppose the restrictions. This turned the mask already into a symbol of virtue signaling which seemed to stuck with a certain part of the population.
It seems that the only people left caring about COVID restrictions are left-leaning academics who, since I rarely encounter them IRL, spend a lot of time online. So exactly what the CCC is.
The founder of my local maker space was an actual communist party member so yes I know what it means. He was not the only one and I have no doubt other maker spaces with close CCC ties will be similar. Somewhat leftist is the understatement of the year.
Personally I have absolutely no problem with a persons political beliefs so that is not an insult. I have a problem with fascism. If I believe something different I should not be penalized or viewed as a threat.
I am not a fan of the CCC or their organization and will continue to share my experiences of them with others.
They are a lot more compatible than people like to admit.
Both have a strong ethos towards promoting individual liberty, and generally agree somewhat on the approach that an individuals rights have a “limit” when they infringe on the rights of another person.
The main difference seems to be that a lot of libertarians take a strictly individualistic approach, whereas anarchists tend to prefer a mutualism approach.
Honestly, if you explain both in neutral terms to someone, they sound almost the same with minor differences.
It's a combination of virtue signaling/perceiving the risk to be higher than others perceive it to be (right or wrong; not commenting on the merits), and the long lead times/limited financial reserves the org has in planning events.
The go/no go decision had to be made months before, and there was some risk of covid restrictions being in place in December which would have made the event suck or not happen. Probably harder to cancel a single event in, say, 2019 over that level of risk, but easier to continue not running it in 2020, 2021, and then in 2022, I think. I really hope it happens this year.
While I believe the general CCC public to be more careful regarding covid, I'd say they had to make that decision long before december. I don't know how long beforehand though, as many rules ran out around a year ago(? not super sure).
> I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene.
Out of curiosity, how would you describe the difference between virtue signaling and actually possessing a virtue, e.g., showing that you're a good member vs being a good member of the scene.
For me, virtue signalling always seemed to imply words instead of actions, claiming things instead of doing things. But actually wearing masks and canceling events are actions to me, not just words. (This relies on the assumption that the people organizing the events and spaces, actually care about them, and don't just run them to show how much they care.)
Or it's simply that it wasn't pragmatic for them to take the risk, because it would be PR hit and the winter months are a likely time for new "waves" to hit.
Because obsession with the covid stuff is closely tied to political philosophy, and, as the CCC itself likes to say, the CCC is a political organisation.
They did not know in fall what the hygiene regulations in December would be, and since organizing the congress means lots of effort and expenses, they decided to wait it out.
In fall 2022 no one could be sure there wouldn't be regulations in effect by the time CCC took place. Even though it was probably considered unlikely by most, they couldn't or wouldn't take their chances.
Sudden spike in cases in Germany around this time of the year iirc. The authorities were openly talking about having to bring back mask mandates and the like for the Christmas season.
CCC decided to cancel because they didn't want the event to risk getting blockaded by that.
> The space available to us there is barely a fifth of what the CCC occupied in the Congress Center Leipzig.
> ..., there will be slightly fewer participants at this year's Congress than in the times before Corona.
This is unfortunate. Already before Corona, it was very difficult to get a ticket. Basically you had to register within the first second once the portal opened, and you needed a lot of luck to get through even then.
There were recursive tickets issued to clubs and friendly organisations (hackerspaces). If you're a member of one, getting a ticket is relatively easy.
Erfakreise ("Erfahrungsaustauschkreis" — experience sharing circle) are official sub-organisations. They are listed under https://www.ccc.de/de/club/erfas
1) Not to my knowledge. Maybe CCCeV has full list somewhere private, but the public announcement said something similar to "we'll reserve a pool of tickets for members of CCC and other orgas". It was given to friends of friends, who were known as leaders of local hackerspaces. Also this recursive coupon didn't say to whom it was given, it just replicated on registration to an email address.
2) I'm certain they were given outside of Germany, I got one in Poland.
As sibling said, ask in your local hackerspace, they either know or should know someone who knows. (If you don't have local hackerspace, gather people, organise your hackerspace, and write to 37c3 angels that you have new hackerspace and want to attend c3 to exchange ideas. First time you probably won't get recursive ticket, but a pool of single-use coupons).
Sure, but there is a limit. I had a whole queue of (techy/hacker) friends that wanted to go (and had gone previous years, so they know what it's like, some of them I met there, they aren't just random people), but the hackerspace has such a queue times a hundred members. They can't give it to everyone, and I don't quite get why not just everyone gets equal chances in the open sale.
Having core contributors, angels, (previous) speakers, yeah sure. But the people at a random space? Doesn't seem very specific
These are not "random" spaces, those are hackerspaces, and the event is for hackers and for building communities, so it's no surprise that the tickets are distributed to known hackers, those that are members of communities.
Why not "equal chances": because the tickets would be gone in 0,01s after opening sale, to bots operated by scalpers, and would be available in secondary circulation to highest bidders, not to real hackers. BTW DEFCON morphed from hacker-oriented to money-oriented, with predictable result. It's my understanding that CCCV wants to avoid this exact result, and instead operates a hybrid system that leaves some tickets to open sale, and reserves some tickets for members of their own Verein and friends (and friends of friends, etc.).
> because the tickets would be gone in 0,01s after opening sale
Yes, that's why you connect at the right time and it's essentially a lottery system. They announce when it will be and there is a unique captcha ("press the red dot") for each sale before you make it into the queue so you can't script it. They even restarted one time after a captcha was broken in some browsers.
I've done this many times in past years and it worked fine. Friends and I seem to get mostly random positions in the queue.
> These are not "random" spaces, those are hackerspaces,
Yeah that's what people refer to the space as, if you're both familiar with them. Was indeed wondering if I needed to write it out again when having used the word hackerspace already earlier in my comment, but figured this would signal in-group more. Apparently not.
> the tickets are distributed to known hackers, those that are members of communities.
That was my point actually. The people I see at hacker spaces aren't more hackery than those that aren't involved with a particular space. Many of the people that meet there regularly just come there to chat with friends rather than using things in ways they weren't meant to be used. It's a very broad audience, quite random, and generally one that is in favour of everyone having equal chances
Yeah, every year we’d basically LAN party the ticket sale. I even synchronized my clock a few mins before the start for the best odds.
Except for 2019, we always needed extra tickets and made up missing tickets by buying from friends. (In 2019 I accidentally got 2 too many and sold them back at cost)
I wonder how many fewer tickets will be available this year. But even then, the hype of coming back to CCC will definitely mean more traffic anyway.
I just reserved a room in a Motel One for three nights + breakfasts for 351 Euro. That's not exactly cheap, but I don't think it's really that expensive.
Yeah, lots of hotels in the $100-160/night range in Hamburg especially during that time window. The Radisson (attached) is unfortunately pretty expensive, especially for a Radission Blu, but very convenient especially if the weather is inclement, and being able to run back to the room throughout the day (vs a 0.5-1km trip by foot or car or whatever) is really nice. Radisson cancellation policy of one MONTH in advance is pretty annoying, though.
Leipzig has seen a massive boom in the past decade, especially in tech/start ups and real estate investment. So much so, in fact, that Leipzig (Connewitz) became popular for leftist protest, riot, and squatting. So having only a fraction of places to sleep anyway, I'm not sure Leipzig is cheaper, especially around Xmas (ie Thomaskirche being the place where Bach worked as kantor).
I don’t remember a time when Connewitz wasn’t a popular place for actual Antifa (not just left-leaning) people, and I’ve known Leipzig for over 30 years.
The boom is mostly driven by students and some economy settling due to the convenient transport location. Leipzig is located right at the intersection of two historic major European trade routes after all (via imperii and via regia) - which is, next long-tested fair infrastructure - also a reason why this place was quite a great choice for the Congress. Hamburg is much more cumbersome to reach and commute through.
I mean it obviously depends from where you're arriving but I wouldn't describe Hamburg as "cumbersome" to reach given it's enormous habor (one of the largest in the world) with the implied net of hinterland roads and trains, plus the airport, etc.
You plan arriving at the Congress via freighter ship? :p
Since it is mostly a middle-European event with climate-conscious attendees, most will arrive by train if using any sort of public transport. DBs connections to Hamburg, even from Berlin are abysmal if you compare to Leipzig.
I did not only mean from Berlin but from many other cities, particularly other big centres like Munich, Prague, Vienna, Frankfurt. Even Zurich has a direct train to Leipzig. Leipzig has historically been at an excellent location within Europe and still is.
Last time I checked any late evening connections Berlin - Hamburg were quite scarce. Maybe they upped it a bit then. Still, Hamburg being in the far north is not exactly great for travel.
Accessing Leipzig from the major population centers in the Northwest of Germany is a major annoyance, though. The train connections to Leipzig basically only work for people in the southeast, bavaria or berlin. For everyone else, Hamburg is much more convenient to reach.
I'll be going to Hamburg soon, as it happens, and it really disappoints me that there is no ferry service from anywhere in Britain to Hamburg. In fact, there are no ferry routes between the UK and Germany at all; the only one going vaguely the right direction arrives in the Netherlands.
Getting from Britain to mainland Europe by sea isn't cheap: ferries from Plymouth to Roscoff are usually over €200 each direction, no meal, no cabin, no car - one adult. And the ships are so massive that it cannot be for anything but artificial scarcity; I'd estimate you could fit about ten thousand people on one of their ships before it would begin to feel crowded.
An affordable ferry with a cabin would allow me to set off at noon, cross Britain from west to east, spend the night crossing the North Sea and arrive refreshed the next day in Bremen/Hamburg ready to use a Deutschlandticket or similar to continue by rail within Germany.
What I have chosen to do in the absence of such a service is purchase a €200 Interrail ticket for 4 days, reserve the Eurostar (Channel Tunnel) train for €60, and reserve an extra night at a hotel in Belgium for each direction. End result: a total of more than €500 and 36 hours travelling.
It's not easy being a climate-conscious traveller.
I've recently looked for ship connections. Next to being surprised that Hamburg had indeed no decent ferry services, it was quite difficult to search for and I had to even contact (via forms) multiple shipping companies.
Maybe someone would like to build a climate-conscious travel search engine that includes all these routes.
FWIW the last ferry service connecting Hamburg and Harwich closed down in 2002. As to traveling by container ship, as recently as 2019 I saw Hamburg Süd (now belonging to Maersk) advertising classic passages, but I'm guessing those go to China and southeast Asia considering container freight to/from UK would fit on small feeder ships today ;) If you're into the nostalgic aspect of traveling via ships, be sure to visit MS Cap San Diego in Hamburg, a freight ship (now a still sea-worthy museum) from just before the container boom in the 60s, it's absolutely fantastic and highly recommended.
I'd love to live in a world where interesting events like CCC have somehow more space (ie. more participants) every year, not less. I've only been once to CCC but I know that the quest to get a ticket is filled with stress and disappointment every year.
I've been on some local events which have grown through the years, and with size, everything became worse sadly... It started with 50, 60 people, you could go talk to the speaker, you could try out some gadgets, see the demos up close... Then it became bigger, more people, more organization, and in the end, it was the same as if I watched stuff streamed online, just less comfortable and more expensive.
You can scale locations. In a fair area you can always add a hall until you run out of halls, then you move to a bigger fair in another city.
What doesn't scale is the people who organise everything. If they don't want to organise ever bigger events, then they are free to switch back to a smaller scale. It's not only the organisational overhead that increases, but also that a bigger event is not just a bigger event, but also becomes another type of event.
Agree about scale making qualitative differences in events, but CCC has been happy operating at larger scale organizationally. I disagree with a lot of the organizational politics with CCC, but they're amazingly good at organizing events, and those events are really good. Combination of the main org/structure, volunteers, and especially making it somewhat federated with other groups/chapters doing their own stuff during the event as well.
In this case CCH doesn't really have more space, and Leipzig sucked as a city to host events (no hotels/food/etc. immediately near the center, etc.). CCC is not so profitable as to get the truly top-end convention centers, and cares about the total cost/experience to participants (accommodations, food, side events, travel logistics). Hannover, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, and Munich have the biggest ones in Germany. Berlin is almost as big; I think it's really expensive to book but if I had the money that would probably be much choice for ideal CCC location. CCH is really quite small as congress centers go.
I cannot understand your concerns about hotel rooms and food tbh. There's a hotel and a shopping center neighboring the venue. Also going to the city center is just 2 stops by train away (or by tram, but it's a longer ride).
I've regularly attended C3 since back when it was still in Berlin and I'm not sure growing the event every year is desirable. Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with the goal of making it more accessible to everyone and I know the "ticket lottery" is miserable, especially if you don't end up getting one.
But the overall vibe of the event definitely changed for the worse (imho) with the move to Leipzig simply because the venue there is mostly focused on trade fairs and thus just so much more wide-open with everything much further apart. In Hamburg you'd constantly run across people you know in the hallways due to the compact horizontal layout, and the overall atmosphere was just a bit cozier. It was still a great event in Leizpig, but for me at least it really didn't compare to the previous iterations in Hamburg.
It's definitely a difficult trade-off to make and I'm glad I'm not the one making these decisions.
Leipzig was huge but it was cool to see all the stuff different hackerspaces could do with the extra room that would be harder at smaller venues (e.g. the beamer on 50m of wall with the crowdedsourced inputs, some of the physics experiment setups)
I don't know how much of that is possible at the CCH
The announcements are inconsistently made in English; usually it's up in German first (which is reasonable given it's a German org and most of the attendees...)
> Big Pharmas & Donald Trumps experimental vaccine
These kind of conspiracy theories are usually enough for a ban in CCC-aligned communities online and offline, and for good reason. The CCC is explicitly a leftist, science-first organization.
In this case the science tells us that we should in fact be even far more careful, which is why so many CCC spaces still have vaccination, testing and mask mandates going far beyond what's legally required.
I thought the parent comment meant that all those ideas were worth fighting for, but the battles have been lost already, and mainstream society labels you as an extremist if you still take those positions.
> Snark aside, I really hope the community gets back on track and addresses these isses.
Not entirely sure if I understand your comment. Obviously all of these things can be done for the "good" and the "bad" and most of these are quite complex to discuss. But about "Electronic Voting systems", I'm quite sure humanity is technologically able to make it at least as reliable as paper votes with some machines even printing out paper receipts and keeping a separate paper trail. (Also considering that most people aren't tech-savvy) But has anyone succeeded making a system that also reputable hackers "approve"? The German Covid App got the design it has now only after lots of public backlash.
The challenge with electronic elections is only partially a technological one.
The point of elections is that people en mass need to trust them and be certain that their fellow citizens did in fact vote as the numbers claim that they did.
Paper (in person and see through urns preferably) is a very accessible way to do that and allows even nontechnical people to witness and verify it with their own eyes.
In most countries with free elections, regular people can supervise their local elections (within reason and if they are able to behave themselves).
With electronic machines you have all the problems you have with paper (e.g. political shenanigans and politicians doubting the results without proof etc) and in addition there suddenly is a totally oblique process on the local level (seeing is believing and no one can see inside a computer memory)
What's the benefit? What do we gain? If counting paper takes too long get more people to do the counting.
Probably more flexible voting systems would be possible. In various countries a) there's a trend to ask voters directly about secondary topics and b) there are reports how voting organizationally is often a mess preventing people to vote within the available time window. e-Voting would enable counting votes quickly and do fraud detection in a more relaxed time window.
So yes, there's a case for being able to more flexibly cast a vote. While more direct democracy isn't there yet for other reasons as well, paper is a technical reason.
For ppl that don't know what is this, imagine a tech-oriented burning man with more infra since it's in the city and (usually) less nude ppl (at least that's the impression I get)
In fact, most CCC participants would probably see the comparison with Burning Man as the greatest insult imaginable (and that's not because of the nude people).
Indeed. And from what I've heard the lack of nude people is probably highly dependent on which after parties you get invited to. Somewhere there's a venn diagram showing certain alternative communities with wide overlaps with CCC attendees.
I have never been at Burning Man and know only little about it, but from this little impression, I actually also did this comparison when I described the CCC event, and I have been to many of those events.
Despite the tech stuff, there is also lots of art, music and party, and a lot of crazy people (meant in a good way).
I think the comparison with the old Burning Man is apt, but not since valley people have been flying in en masse and it seems more like a rich people playground.
Never been to Burning Man, so take with a grain of salt. I've also not been to the CCC for around 7 or 8 years, so not sure how much the original counterculture spirit is still alive.
"The Tribes of Burning Man" was a good read, but in stark contrast to everything I've read online for the last few years.
CCC used to be anarchist hackers fighting government control and surveillance. Now many of them seem to be boring pro-EU, leftist "activists". Unfortunately.
Also you can have a look at recordings at https://media.ccc.de e.g. the recordings from this years Chaos Communication Camp: https://media.ccc.de/c/camp2023 (I think the congress has more live dubbing between German and English than the camp, so look at recordings from old congresses for that.)
That camp is like a congress on a camping ground with all the hacker spaces showing of their stuff, lots of light installations, party etc. which is not in the recordings. In contrast to Burning Man it is not in the desert, but in the greenery. (I only was at one camp many many years ago.) To see the non-talk stuff search for cccamp23 on YouTube and Flickr, e.g. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bimVzt9MUog
Not only past Congresses but when it's going on they live stream the vast majority of the talks. There are also "signal angels" that will relay questions asked on IRC to the speaker if you're looking for more direct participation. It's an awe-inspiring system to behold, and frustrating that not all "technology" conferences have adopted this level of wide-spread engagement. It's quite literally the most accessible conference for remote attendees and has been for years. They even live translate talks into multiple, other languages! I'm a big fan of the CCC and have never tried to travel to attend. Attending remotely is such a convenient experience. The only disappointing part is missing out on incidental conversation and of course the sticker operations.
152 comments
[ 4.2 ms ] story [ 224 ms ] threadThis will keep quite a few people e.g. with existing health conditions or long covid from attending. There are still open conferences that keep Public Health Pledge [0] or similar into account for inclusion and to avoid being mass spreading events.
[0] https://publichealthpledge.com/
Many CCC spaces currently require proof of vaccination, daily testing and rigorous masking, and while Congress will likely be a less strict, you can expect similar rules nonetheless.
Crazy to see those types of measures still in place as we’re more than half-way through 2023. That’s a good way to self-select their members, I guess.
Now at least some care is taken, and some spaces bought and configured large air filter systems to allow unmasking without infection risk.
You don't want a ransomware infected, malware spreading windows 95 PC in your intranet either unless it's heavily firewalled.
You mean reduced infection risk. It's impossible to eliminate completely. And my gut feeling tells me that most people overestimate the amount of risk reduction caused by these air filters.
Just because politicians have "declared" the pandemic over, it is by far not over yet - we are still seeing significant excess mortality [1], and across Germany many companies are complaining about significant amounts of people on sick leave, most noticeably in public transit. Guess where that comes from... it's a lot of Covid.
SARS-CoV-2 is an incredibly dangerous virus and way too many people aren't even doing air purifiers any more because these are "too expensive to run" and whatnot.
[1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d...
But looking at the statistics in your link it is not that obvious, as it looks like the excess mortality slowly converges to zero.
Especially considering how with every previous congress the congress flu had infected the vast majority of participants and caused them to be bedridden for the 1-2 weeks after.
"Giving the immune system practice" doesn't apply to covid. Every single covid infection makes the immune system weaker.
Your suggestion is akin to saying condoms are unnecessary, everyone should just get HIV and we should just accept the new normal.
There's no easy way out of this pandemic, just like there was no easy way out of the HIV pandemic.
Everyone’s health situation is different, but I think comparing this to HIV is a bit of a stretch.
I do wish everyone has the choice to decide what works for themselves. In my case, I do just that and I don’t subject myself to anything I don’t want.
Being bedridden for 1-2 weeks after getting the flu is also very uncommon since the fever lasts 3-4 days on average. Here's a graph of viral load over a typical 5.5 day infection: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/cms/asset/3a62f972-1633-4...
It's very common if you have a high number of international participants. In Munich, the most nasty occurrence has its own name: "Wiesngrippe", named after the Oktoberfest which serves as a living petri dish with millions of people, but it's also common after the huge trade fairs (e.g. Bauma).
Service staff are hit hardest because many of them don't take off days if they're sick - they power through for as long as they can (because they can make above 15.000€ in the two weeks!) and end up spreading all the germs around.
In addition to that, SARS-CoV-2 is suspected to be able to induce immune amnesia similar to what can be observed after measles - anecdotally, I've been incredibly sensitive towards anything from the common cold to outright influenza ever since I caught COVID last year. It's no fun to travel anywhere when you know you'll catch some bug because yet another moron decided to not at least wear a mask or stay home when sick.
[1] https://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/muenchen/das-verdient-e...
Complaints or suggestions made here will likely fall on deaf ears.
Boosters are not widely available in many countries for people outside the risk group.
In a lot of places you simply cannot get a booster currently unless you are a healthcare worker, or documented risk group.
No, you can’t even get them privately at this time either.
I occasionally read his blog, but "right-wing extremist" would not be one of the words I'd use to describe his content. I know nothing about his following. IIRC he is also vaccinated so not sure where this is headed.
That’s “the most up to date and available booster” in many countries.
The boosters since have been often only available to healthcare workers, the elderly, or those with preexisting conditions.
It feels a tad absurd to demand following what are arguably unnecessary extra regulations at this point (vaccines have been made widely available for the majority of the populace; Germany has a non-booster vaccination rate of 72%, about 6% above the usual 2/3rds you need for herd immunity to kick in; 62% has at least one booster[0] - these are rates somewhat consistent across most of Europe at that[1] and purely anecdotally speaking, C3 leans heavily European in attendance).
The insistence that masking up as a requirement is still necessary as if we're on the peak of COVID just strikes me as odd (and tends to not translate well outside online spaces anyway - good luck convincing people that masks are necessary when most of them took the vaccine the moment they could specifically so that life could get back to normal and they didn't need to mask up all the time; for most people, COVID as a pandemic ended when they got their vaccination). If you want to do it on your own terms, sure, nobody will stop you (in fact I think the world could learn a bit from the general tedency of masking up if they have a cold like they do in countries such as Japan out of general politeness) but to request events keep doing it for everyone is a bit silly. Following government regulations is the right call here.
[0]: https://impfdashboard.de/en/
[1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccina... - stat is per 100 people; a rate of above 200 means that the majority of people also got their second shot.
Also I've not even seen anything in the news lately, so maybe I'm just not looking at the right places but right now I am honestly not even sure if I should be getting more shots, or other ones, based on how the situation has developed in... about 22 months.
My point being: I am simply not sure if these last 2 years haven't changed how we looked at the vaccination numbers back then, because e.g. omicron even came after people were still pushing for this "basic immunization".
In my country at least (UK), it's not yet possible for an individual to pay to have a booster and so the only way of getting another vaccine shot is for free via the NHS. However, this is only available if you are sufficiently old (I believe over 50) or in a "vulnerable group", so teachers, someone working in healthcare, or someone who has a pre-existing medical condition that makes them more likely to have more severe effects. So, far from making it more open to all, this suggestion massively limits the potential attendee pool.
Of course, the other suggestions like not attending if you have any symptoms or having negative test results, seem like good steps in the right direction.
Masking is another issue - maybe it'd be OK for a 1 day event, but personally, I wouldn't attend a 3 day event if I had to wear a mask the whole time, because they are uncomfortable for prolonged periods. I was super vigilant during and after COVID and always wore a mask when I would encounter people, but because I didn't enjoy wearing a mask, I decided it was better to largely stay at home where I didn't need to interact with people instead. I'm happy to agree that the preference to not wear a mask is selfish, but it's still an interesting question on how many people would choose to not attend because they don't want 3 days of discomfort compared to how many vulnerable people would choose to attend if everyone was wearing masks. My gut feeling is that people who are that vulnerable would still rather stay away and avoid crowds because there would still be a non-zero risk, but equally I can see that some people might be glad for an opportunity to finally do something in a larger group that's safer than normal larger groups.
I guess it's all of matter of circumstance: as an anesthesiology resident/attending/private practitioner from 1977-2015, I normally wore a mask in the OR all day and sometimes all night.
It never occurred to me that this was uncomfortable — it was like a fish in water: this is the life I had chosen.
Diff'rent strokes
But the mask itself, if worn properly, provides no discomfort whatsoever.
Teach me. I'm at an event right now (not CCC obviously) and wearing a mask for some hours and it's killing, making me look for any opportunity to get outside and take it off for five minutes. It pulls on both ears, pushes onto the bridge of my nose (that issue seems to be this particular mask though), and depending on how I adjust it, either shoots jets or air into my eyes or onto my glasses and fogging them up. How does one wear this "properly"?
Not like you can turn it upside down or inside out, I'm not sure what options I have? I've tried one of these plastic things for behind your head, so it doesn't have to hold onto the ears directly, but that trades added nose hurt for reduced ear hurt.
This has been the case with all masks in the past years btw, so unless there's a secret brand, I'd not guess it's brand related. The thing has to be somewhat leak-proof for it to work so that seemed to make sense to me
It's not like this is mandatory atm, just trying to do the right thing (most people don't wear one)...
https://austintechsupply.com/blogs/news/benefits-to-wearing-...
You will note that, unlike the masks most people wear, it goes around the head, not over the ears, and employs not one but two flat rubber head straps.
IMHO ear-mounted masks cannot possible be as closely fitting over the face and effective as those that go over the head.
I first saw this mask in a photo of President Biden, who was wearing one.
I figured if it was good enough for him and his advisers it was plenty good enough for me.
Available (Amazon U.S.) here for about 60 cents apiece for a pack of 20: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FM2P1KF?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reord...
About 4x more expensive than in the U.S.
With the Aura masks (at least those with a strong clip), it's not necessary to push it down very strongly; you just need to lightly shape it, and then the strength of the clip will ensure that it stays in shape, and the foam around the nose will ensure a good seal.
It seems to take some practice to find the right clip shape, but once you've found it, they're quite comfortable IMO - and most of the time I've seen people complain about discomfort with these masks, it seems to be because of the nose clip being too tight.
These strips stop adhering to the skin, and in turn let air through, when they're soaked in sweat, so you'll have to swap masks somewhat regularly if you're physically active (e.g., volunteering at a chaos event — we still need Engel!)
Second, I use masks with two straps, both going on the back of your head. This prevents the mask from pulling on your ears, improves positioning and decreases the chance of the mask slipping.
I personally can recommend the 3M Aura, the Dräger FFP3 masks, and the JFM04 from Siegmund
> we still need Engel!
I tried volunteering the last two congresses, figuring I'd do my share instead of only making use of the volunteer efforts. The first year, a task came up and I went to the angel desk but they weren't sure what the task was supposed to be or where it was supposed to be or something. I was told to hang around for a while but nothing came of it. Nothing further ever came up, tasks either required training (which might be fine, but there wasn't time for that training anymore) or were already being done by others the second they become available. The second year I occasionally checked the open tasks but same story.
The system is overflowing with angels there for the free food, the ticket vouchers, the crew t-shirts, and the camaraderie. Maybe you mean on other CCC events, or during buildup more than a day before the start? (I'm always there on day zero, when the place is relatively empty but most things are set up.)
Aside from that during build-up (before day 1) and tear-down (after day 4) we also need lots of helpers.
Probably though, my total mask wearing for most of COVID was about an hour a week when doing shopping, so it was relatively easy just to put up with it. And whilst I did continue wearing a mask for shopping for about 4 months after restrictions were lifted, it was just because I prioritised minimising my exposure over comfort - I actually hated the experience and only put the mask on when getting within about 25m of other people and took them off as soon as possible when I was safely away from people again.
The not over ear, but around the head instead masks that someone else mentioned sound like a good idea, but I've never seen them in the UK, so I never even knew such a thing existed.
I've tried about 3 different designs of masks of the "normal" type, but apart from some having worse joins on the straps, they all seemed about the same in discomfort. I also had some of the thick KN95 masks, and actually found them better than normal masks - although it was harder to breath in them and was a bit hotter, because there was more space between the face and the mask, it didn't feel as squashed.
Here is the 3M Aura N95 mask at Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/AuraTM-Particulate-Respirator-Unval...
£59.65 for 20, so about 6-7x more expensive than in the U.S.
Why? The rest of German society doesn't care. I live in Denmark and have been to plenty of social events in Germany in 2022 and 2023. Nobody cares anymore. Why does the CCC?
It was a weird time last December: After the cancellation of the congress was announced, there was a large congress of intensive care workers in Germany where the attendees were going around mostly maskless. I mean, who would be better at estimating the risks?
I also don't understand why the German hacker scene was and still is so much in favor Covid restrictions. There are hackerspaces that still require N95 masks today while in the general population nobody cares anymore. I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene.
Completely agree. At the beginning of the pandemic, people who opposed the restrictions were considered selfish and showing a lack of solidarity, if not harmful. It quickly turned out that right-leaning people were more likely to oppose the restrictions. This turned the mask already into a symbol of virtue signaling which seemed to stuck with a certain part of the population.
It seems that the only people left caring about COVID restrictions are left-leaning academics who, since I rarely encounter them IRL, spend a lot of time online. So exactly what the CCC is.
They are somewhat leftist, but certainly not communist. Do you know what communist means or are you just using at as an insult?
The founder of my local maker space was an actual communist party member so yes I know what it means. He was not the only one and I have no doubt other maker spaces with close CCC ties will be similar. Somewhat leftist is the understatement of the year.
Personally I have absolutely no problem with a persons political beliefs so that is not an insult. I have a problem with fascism. If I believe something different I should not be penalized or viewed as a threat.
I am not a fan of the CCC or their organization and will continue to share my experiences of them with others.
Admittedly it's very murky to see how it's organized and run..
German maker spaces are not nice for people with different views i.e. not left wing.
Simply not true.
If you are rabidly right wing (AfD, for example), then yes you will be shunned. But if you are a normal decent person you will be fine.
Both have a strong ethos towards promoting individual liberty, and generally agree somewhat on the approach that an individuals rights have a “limit” when they infringe on the rights of another person.
The main difference seems to be that a lot of libertarians take a strictly individualistic approach, whereas anarchists tend to prefer a mutualism approach.
Honestly, if you explain both in neutral terms to someone, they sound almost the same with minor differences.
The go/no go decision had to be made months before, and there was some risk of covid restrictions being in place in December which would have made the event suck or not happen. Probably harder to cancel a single event in, say, 2019 over that level of risk, but easier to continue not running it in 2020, 2021, and then in 2022, I think. I really hope it happens this year.
While I believe the general CCC public to be more careful regarding covid, I'd say they had to make that decision long before december. I don't know how long beforehand though, as many rules ran out around a year ago(? not super sure).
> I honestly think that it's mostly virtue signalling, i.e. showing that you're a good member of the scene.
Out of curiosity, how would you describe the difference between virtue signaling and actually possessing a virtue, e.g., showing that you're a good member vs being a good member of the scene.
For me, virtue signalling always seemed to imply words instead of actions, claiming things instead of doing things. But actually wearing masks and canceling events are actions to me, not just words. (This relies on the assumption that the people organizing the events and spaces, actually care about them, and don't just run them to show how much they care.)
CCC decided to cancel because they didn't want the event to risk getting blockaded by that.
> ..., there will be slightly fewer participants at this year's Congress than in the times before Corona.
This is unfortunate. Already before Corona, it was very difficult to get a ticket. Basically you had to register within the first second once the portal opened, and you needed a lot of luck to get through even then.
Chaostreffs (chaos meetings) are loosely coupled to the club and listed here: https://www.ccc.de/de/club/chaostreffs
2) I'm certain they were given outside of Germany, I got one in Poland.
As sibling said, ask in your local hackerspace, they either know or should know someone who knows. (If you don't have local hackerspace, gather people, organise your hackerspace, and write to 37c3 angels that you have new hackerspace and want to attend c3 to exchange ideas. First time you probably won't get recursive ticket, but a pool of single-use coupons).
But I want to invite some friends as well, and I want that some outsiders also have the chance to come, so that it's more diverse.
Having core contributors, angels, (previous) speakers, yeah sure. But the people at a random space? Doesn't seem very specific
Why not "equal chances": because the tickets would be gone in 0,01s after opening sale, to bots operated by scalpers, and would be available in secondary circulation to highest bidders, not to real hackers. BTW DEFCON morphed from hacker-oriented to money-oriented, with predictable result. It's my understanding that CCCV wants to avoid this exact result, and instead operates a hybrid system that leaves some tickets to open sale, and reserves some tickets for members of their own Verein and friends (and friends of friends, etc.).
Yes, that's why you connect at the right time and it's essentially a lottery system. They announce when it will be and there is a unique captcha ("press the red dot") for each sale before you make it into the queue so you can't script it. They even restarted one time after a captcha was broken in some browsers.
I've done this many times in past years and it worked fine. Friends and I seem to get mostly random positions in the queue.
> These are not "random" spaces, those are hackerspaces,
Yeah that's what people refer to the space as, if you're both familiar with them. Was indeed wondering if I needed to write it out again when having used the word hackerspace already earlier in my comment, but figured this would signal in-group more. Apparently not.
> the tickets are distributed to known hackers, those that are members of communities.
That was my point actually. The people I see at hacker spaces aren't more hackery than those that aren't involved with a particular space. Many of the people that meet there regularly just come there to chat with friends rather than using things in ways they weren't meant to be used. It's a very broad audience, quite random, and generally one that is in favour of everyone having equal chances
I mean, maybe that's a good thing, but certainly not what makes me interested in CCC at all.
Except for 2019, we always needed extra tickets and made up missing tickets by buying from friends. (In 2019 I accidentally got 2 too many and sold them back at cost)
I wonder how many fewer tickets will be available this year. But even then, the hype of coming back to CCC will definitely mean more traffic anyway.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/03/motel-one-says-ransomware-...
From another source (non-English) I get the data (5TB) is available on the darknet.
The boom is mostly driven by students and some economy settling due to the convenient transport location. Leipzig is located right at the intersection of two historic major European trade routes after all (via imperii and via regia) - which is, next long-tested fair infrastructure - also a reason why this place was quite a great choice for the Congress. Hamburg is much more cumbersome to reach and commute through.
Since it is mostly a middle-European event with climate-conscious attendees, most will arrive by train if using any sort of public transport. DBs connections to Hamburg, even from Berlin are abysmal if you compare to Leipzig.
- the distance from Berlin to Hamburg is 282km, there are 33 daily train connections, taking 1:44h or more
- the distance from Berlin to Leipzig is 148km, there are 27 daily train connections, taking 1:26h or more
The real question though is, why would you want to travel through Berlin under all circumstances ;)
Last time I checked any late evening connections Berlin - Hamburg were quite scarce. Maybe they upped it a bit then. Still, Hamburg being in the far north is not exactly great for travel.
Getting from Britain to mainland Europe by sea isn't cheap: ferries from Plymouth to Roscoff are usually over €200 each direction, no meal, no cabin, no car - one adult. And the ships are so massive that it cannot be for anything but artificial scarcity; I'd estimate you could fit about ten thousand people on one of their ships before it would begin to feel crowded.
An affordable ferry with a cabin would allow me to set off at noon, cross Britain from west to east, spend the night crossing the North Sea and arrive refreshed the next day in Bremen/Hamburg ready to use a Deutschlandticket or similar to continue by rail within Germany.
What I have chosen to do in the absence of such a service is purchase a €200 Interrail ticket for 4 days, reserve the Eurostar (Channel Tunnel) train for €60, and reserve an extra night at a hotel in Belgium for each direction. End result: a total of more than €500 and 36 hours travelling.
It's not easy being a climate-conscious traveller.
Maybe someone would like to build a climate-conscious travel search engine that includes all these routes.
The on site food vendors were - universally - garbage.
The nearby options were also pretty bad.
You had to spend maybe 45 minutes commuting to get somewhere reasonable
What doesn't scale is the people who organise everything. If they don't want to organise ever bigger events, then they are free to switch back to a smaller scale. It's not only the organisational overhead that increases, but also that a bigger event is not just a bigger event, but also becomes another type of event.
In this case CCH doesn't really have more space, and Leipzig sucked as a city to host events (no hotels/food/etc. immediately near the center, etc.). CCC is not so profitable as to get the truly top-end convention centers, and cares about the total cost/experience to participants (accommodations, food, side events, travel logistics). Hannover, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, and Munich have the biggest ones in Germany. Berlin is almost as big; I think it's really expensive to book but if I had the money that would probably be much choice for ideal CCC location. CCH is really quite small as congress centers go.
But the overall vibe of the event definitely changed for the worse (imho) with the move to Leipzig simply because the venue there is mostly focused on trade fairs and thus just so much more wide-open with everything much further apart. In Hamburg you'd constantly run across people you know in the hallways due to the compact horizontal layout, and the overall atmosphere was just a bit cozier. It was still a great event in Leizpig, but for me at least it really didn't compare to the previous iterations in Hamburg.
It's definitely a difficult trade-off to make and I'm glad I'm not the one making these decisions.
I don't know how much of that is possible at the CCH
But there is also Easterhegg around the Easter holidays https://www.easterhegg.eu/
And the Gulaschprogrammiernacht in early summer: https://entropia.de/GPN
The announcements are inconsistently made in English; usually it's up in German first (which is reasonable given it's a German org and most of the attendees...)
They are still campaigning against biometrics, surveillance, Trojans, data retention and electronic voting systems.
These kind of conspiracy theories are usually enough for a ban in CCC-aligned communities online and offline, and for good reason. The CCC is explicitly a leftist, science-first organization.
In this case the science tells us that we should in fact be even far more careful, which is why so many CCC spaces still have vaccination, testing and mask mandates going far beyond what's legally required.
Deal with it
Not entirely sure if I understand your comment. Obviously all of these things can be done for the "good" and the "bad" and most of these are quite complex to discuss. But about "Electronic Voting systems", I'm quite sure humanity is technologically able to make it at least as reliable as paper votes with some machines even printing out paper receipts and keeping a separate paper trail. (Also considering that most people aren't tech-savvy) But has anyone succeeded making a system that also reputable hackers "approve"? The German Covid App got the design it has now only after lots of public backlash.
The point of elections is that people en mass need to trust them and be certain that their fellow citizens did in fact vote as the numbers claim that they did.
Paper (in person and see through urns preferably) is a very accessible way to do that and allows even nontechnical people to witness and verify it with their own eyes.
In most countries with free elections, regular people can supervise their local elections (within reason and if they are able to behave themselves).
With electronic machines you have all the problems you have with paper (e.g. political shenanigans and politicians doubting the results without proof etc) and in addition there suddenly is a totally oblique process on the local level (seeing is believing and no one can see inside a computer memory)
What's the benefit? What do we gain? If counting paper takes too long get more people to do the counting.
Probably more flexible voting systems would be possible. In various countries a) there's a trend to ask voters directly about secondary topics and b) there are reports how voting organizationally is often a mess preventing people to vote within the available time window. e-Voting would enable counting votes quickly and do fraud detection in a more relaxed time window.
So yes, there's a case for being able to more flexibly cast a vote. While more direct democracy isn't there yet for other reasons as well, paper is a technical reason.
I have never been at Burning Man and know only little about it, but from this little impression, I actually also did this comparison when I described the CCC event, and I have been to many of those events.
Despite the tech stuff, there is also lots of art, music and party, and a lot of crazy people (meant in a good way).
Never been to Burning Man, so take with a grain of salt. I've also not been to the CCC for around 7 or 8 years, so not sure how much the original counterculture spirit is still alive.
"The Tribes of Burning Man" was a good read, but in stark contrast to everything I've read online for the last few years.
That camp is like a congress on a camping ground with all the hacker spaces showing of their stuff, lots of light installations, party etc. which is not in the recordings. In contrast to Burning Man it is not in the desert, but in the greenery. (I only was at one camp many many years ago.) To see the non-talk stuff search for cccamp23 on YouTube and Flickr, e.g. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bimVzt9MUog
https://events.ccc.de/
https://www.statista.com/chart/29100/global-face-mask-sales/