Not even their neighbors want them. Some how they have become a pariah in the M.E and no one wants them. Not very different than the Syrian Refugees who were being openly killed and bombed by Russia were wanted, many had to hug the border of other countries to seek refuge.
putting aside current "hostilities" in Israel and wave of arab-on-arab violence in Israel, it's much safer environment. Gun shootings the way they happen in US do not exist in Israel.
The fact is quite a few Israelis have some EU passport that allows them to work and live in the EU (around half the population came from Europe), yet you don't see half the people go to live in Europe.
If Israeli people were a computer program, then yeah maybe the most efficient thing to do would be to leave to Europe and all else be damned.
But people aren't computer programs. People are willing to suffer a lot for all kinds of abstract ideas like honor, religion, culture, history etc. How else would you explain Gazans will to now start this war in the first place? We are far from being a rational creature.
If you look past the wealth (and wealth inequality) the US is pretty miserable. We are very lonely here. Maybe it would be good for us, but not for them.
Most people who are looking to immigrate would love to live in the U.S yes, but most people are not looking to immigrate. Immigrating can be quite tough and unsuitable for many people.
Culture is not the same thing as national identity.
And as a practical matter, no, the US is very good at assimilating immigrants. (Which is usually a good thing! But in this context would be cultural genocide. Or cultural suicide on the part of the Israelis/Ukrainians.) The overwhelming majority would be monolingual English speakers and intermarrying within three generations.
Actually no it does not. The United States is more culturally tolerant than many other countries in the world but rest assured we do not allow all peoples to keep their current culture. There are ideals that the United States holds that are enshrined in our founding documents that run counter to many cultural beliefs. When you come to this country you are expected to abandon those parts of your cultural beliefs because if you do not you will wind up being a criminal.
There is much more I could say on this subject having traveled much of the world and seen the cultures that people have but this really isn't the venue. The short version is that statements like yours seem to have the underpinning that all cultures are equal and of equal moral value. Those who hold that belief have not studied other cultures or gone to places and seeing how those cultures are implemented. Perhaps they're just extremely naive and don't know that many cultures still promote rape as a way to control women or female general mutilation. These are extreme examples but they are real and these are not a criminal elements that are promoting these things this is a cultural norm that is considered acceptable.
This is not meant to be a statement that the United States some how has obtained cultural perfection because it's certainly has not but there's a reason people to this day flock to this country and not to a lot of other countries. You don't have to do very much of a Google search to find the news articles of people who have come to this country believing your idea that they can keep their culture and then performing those heinous acts that I used as an example. Again they did not think of themselves as performing a criminal act they had willing participants to aid them who believe that they were doing the culturally correct thing.
I don't think this will be a problem with Israelis and Ukrainians though. For the most part, their cultures do not involve actions that would be illegal in the US.
In the Ukrainian case, not at all. You have a piece of land that has been "in the family" for generations, and you want it to stay this way. You just want a piece of land where you want to live your life in peace. And then a screaming horde shows up on the horizon, trying to take that away from you. I would see nothing wrong with standing up to fight, especially as you weren't the one throwing the first punch. I can see Poland, a country living literally next door, doing the same thing.
Israel is a bit different, so I won't get into it on account of not being qualified enough to share my view.
Give up having two allied nations in parts of the world with lots of US adversaries? Not to mention telling people to leave an area that has a _considerable_ cultural meaning to them?
I’m sure you have great intentions in your thinking but it is wildly unreasonable.
At least for Israel, a large part of why there are many US adversaries there, is the US support for Israel. Unlike Russia, those countries are not competing (ex-)superpowers - if they weren't getting bombed they wouldn't be "adversaries".
Wouldn't making all these people US citizens and having them live in the US end two major wars?
Probably not. Many Ukrainian women and children have already fled to other countries including the US however males of conscription age 18 to 65 were required to stay and fight. I am not sure if extracting their soldiers would in itself be an act of war? Even if that invasion ends and Russia takes Ukraine, do they then move on to Poland, Finland and others?
Neither Israelis nor Palestinians would leave voluntarily. They are in a century-long territorial dispute over the Holy Land. Getting into the middle of a holy war will just make it worse in my opinion. Men, women and some children are soldiers in that holy war so I am not sure who would want to be extracted nor do I have any idea what would happen. Would the war just spread to the US?
> Neither Israelis nor Palestinians would leave voluntarily.
A non zero chunk of mostly young liberals on both sides would leave to the U.S for sure if they were given a citizenship. It wouldn't end the conflict though.
History has shown quiet clearly that Imperialistic Ambitions never stop until they are stopped. The way to end the War in Ukraine is to help them win. Unfortunately there will never be an end to the war in the M.E.
Are you saying the US should take an influx of 100 million people? Let's say they would be up for it... There's no infrastructure to support that. All problems in the US would multiply. Just imagine the housing crisis if the US just added a fourth more population. Not to mention we won't have enough food. People will be starving.
- people want to live in their ancestral homelands, in their own houses
- lots of Americans would get pissed off, causing hostility towards the new arrivals and those that put them there
- integrating tens of millions of people in a short time period would be a crazy challenge
- people would decide that they don't want to move, and that they want to stay and fight. Do you deny them that right? Do you take them away by force, for those that wanted to stay?
- the newly moved governments would no longer be sovereign (and if they were made sovereign by the host government donating them some land they can rule over, that would piss off the anti-immigrant brigade off even more)
Those are just the logistical challenges. And there's a lot more.
35 comments
[ 0.31 ms ] story [ 73.9 ms ] threadIsraelis generally want to live in an Israeli-run Israel, and Ukrainians generally want to live in a Ukrainian-run Ukraine.
Why would they move to the US and lose their national identity?
And as a practical matter, no, the US is very good at assimilating immigrants. (Which is usually a good thing! But in this context would be cultural genocide. Or cultural suicide on the part of the Israelis/Ukrainians.) The overwhelming majority would be monolingual English speakers and intermarrying within three generations.
There is much more I could say on this subject having traveled much of the world and seen the cultures that people have but this really isn't the venue. The short version is that statements like yours seem to have the underpinning that all cultures are equal and of equal moral value. Those who hold that belief have not studied other cultures or gone to places and seeing how those cultures are implemented. Perhaps they're just extremely naive and don't know that many cultures still promote rape as a way to control women or female general mutilation. These are extreme examples but they are real and these are not a criminal elements that are promoting these things this is a cultural norm that is considered acceptable.
This is not meant to be a statement that the United States some how has obtained cultural perfection because it's certainly has not but there's a reason people to this day flock to this country and not to a lot of other countries. You don't have to do very much of a Google search to find the news articles of people who have come to this country believing your idea that they can keep their culture and then performing those heinous acts that I used as an example. Again they did not think of themselves as performing a criminal act they had willing participants to aid them who believe that they were doing the culturally correct thing.
Israel is a bit different, so I won't get into it on account of not being qualified enough to share my view.
I’m sure you have great intentions in your thinking but it is wildly unreasonable.
Probably not. Many Ukrainian women and children have already fled to other countries including the US however males of conscription age 18 to 65 were required to stay and fight. I am not sure if extracting their soldiers would in itself be an act of war? Even if that invasion ends and Russia takes Ukraine, do they then move on to Poland, Finland and others?
Neither Israelis nor Palestinians would leave voluntarily. They are in a century-long territorial dispute over the Holy Land. Getting into the middle of a holy war will just make it worse in my opinion. Men, women and some children are soldiers in that holy war so I am not sure who would want to be extracted nor do I have any idea what would happen. Would the war just spread to the US?
A non zero chunk of mostly young liberals on both sides would leave to the U.S for sure if they were given a citizenship. It wouldn't end the conflict though.
(This is a very loose analogy; don't read too much into it)
History has shown quiet clearly that Imperialistic Ambitions never stop until they are stopped. The way to end the War in Ukraine is to help them win. Unfortunately there will never be an end to the war in the M.E.
Just my opinion.
Some religious leaders argue for global citizenship.
Infinite Improbability Machine:
https://www.quora.com/What-if-Napoleon-had-a-B-52-bomber-at-...
- people want to live in their ancestral homelands, in their own houses
- lots of Americans would get pissed off, causing hostility towards the new arrivals and those that put them there
- integrating tens of millions of people in a short time period would be a crazy challenge
- people would decide that they don't want to move, and that they want to stay and fight. Do you deny them that right? Do you take them away by force, for those that wanted to stay?
- the newly moved governments would no longer be sovereign (and if they were made sovereign by the host government donating them some land they can rule over, that would piss off the anti-immigrant brigade off even more)
Those are just the logistical challenges. And there's a lot more.