For those who do not have a CS degree, has it negatively effected your career? Has anyone pursued work that required a CS degree and thrived in spite of not having one?
The poll has 3 questions and 4 answers. If I choose "yes" or "no", I am not sure, which question it is meant for. And questions 2 and 3 are opposite to each other. Please clarify the poll with only one question.
I don't have a CS degree, but it didn't affect my career at all. I feel that CS would be helpful for interviews and expressing the problem using CS terms. I used to read up on basic CS stuff and talk to CS friends to gain CS knowledge. As long as, one can read and write english and familiar with basic math (logarithms, algebra, calculus, probability etc.), CS is very easy to pick up.
agreed. i have a philosophy and cognitive science degree, but have several yrs of programming, data mining & machine learning experience; haven't ever really had a hard time getting a related job.
I'd say no, just because I could point out many people with degrees in mathematics who couldn't define the halting problem or a Turing Machine, and yet those are core concepts for any person with a meaningful degree in computer science. (Note: I did not say 'computer programming' or 'software engineering'!)
Of course, that's not to say that this would preclude someone from being employed in many of the same jobs offered to CS graduates, but it underlines the fact that the two disciplines are still very different, even if they involve related skills. If we only used the 'employable in the same jobs' benchmark, then psychology and sociology degrees might 'count' as history degrees.
I ignored a job advertised in the paper once because it said it required a master's in CS. I had a bachelor's in mathematics. The job was for a Unix kernel and system hacker at a company making Unix workstations. This was around 1984, when Unix internals experience was not widespread.
Several months later, a headhunter sent me to interview for that job, which was still open because they hadn't been able to find anyone with the necessary Unix experience before I applied.
I got the job.
They could have had me several months earlier, and without having to pay several thousand dollars to a headhunter, if they had not stuck on that requirement for a master's degree in their ad in the paper.
I don't necessarily agree with the practice, but the argument I've heard is that if you only want people with a Bachelor's or higher, you have to say that you want a Master's.
What do you think the reason for that is? That those people without a bachelor's degree will be really discouraged from applying if you state that a master's is required?
Probably because, so often, it really doesn't mean anything. This phrase is usually put there by HR departments; most hiring managers couldn't care less about an applicant's (lack of formal) education if the person can actually do the work, which, in computer science, is a lot of people with no degrees.
I frequently get asked why I didn't do Computer Science as a degree. Before I even left school to go to University (I'm British) I was already running my first startup. (I was 16 and it was game hosting company. I peaked off at two full racks worth of physical servers (several hundred virtual servers)).
At that time in my life, it wasn't even possible for me to have a computer science degree so this startup clearly wasn't affected.
It was around this time also (when faced with the prospect of wanting to go to University for a degree) that I look around at all of the courses available to me and did some research on what I wanted to do.
I really didn't like the look of a single CS degree. I was only really interested in the web and most courses which had any focus on "web technologies"/"the web in general" were so outdated. I didn't have anyone to ask for advice so I figured I could probably learn everything I needed to by hand. I still wanted a degree so I picked a degree which I knew would be well regarded for my entire life. I don't regret that at all.
The only gaping holes in my knowledge which I wish I could fill in, would be advanced maths, some cryptography theory and general algorithm knowledge.
I wouldn't say that I've suffered one bit by not doing a CS degree. The startup that I'm working on has applied to YCombinator and I've build up everything I've needed to through self taught work.
Clearly, depending on the field you want to go into, my path might not work for you, but I've not suffered.
I spent most of my time where I had to the choice of study on intellectual property. If in 5 years time things don't work out for me, I would have just one year left to qualify as a solicitor.
But saying that, I have at least 10 years worth of startup ideas so the liklihood of that is looking pretty slim!
Wow, your story is very familiar to me (without the successful startup, sadly!). I'm British too, and simply found all the options available to someone interested in the web severely lacking. I'd done a couple of years of building websites for small businesses and such, and I was pretty much ahead of everyone I could find (admittedly I was from a fairly sleepy area).
I ended up joining a course but dropped out after less than a month; the first sign that it wasn't going to work out was at the initial interview where someone said "You've done some web work I see? I bet you'll be able to teach me a thing or two!" that person was the head lecturer.
Algorithms, advanced maths, and cryptography are also the areas I feel I lack.
All in all, I don't think I've suffered in the slightest either. Finding the first job was probably a bit tricker, but in hindsight I've had an additional 3/4 years earning good wages than those people who did do the degrees. I'm not strongly opinionated as to whether they're worthwhile or not, but I don't believe I've been negatively impacted by it.
I have thought a few times that the traditional style of education simply isn't applicable to some people; I was never very good at school, but flourished once I learnt how to teach myself what I wanted to learn.
to fill those gaps. I've taken both classes at my university and have learned more in the first few lectures of these free online classes than I learned all semester at university.
If you'd like a copy of the assignments I can send them to you.
My guess is that they'll iterate over the material and open again next "semester." I'm at a loss as to why they're still operating under "semester" paradigms. Will likely be removed after a few iterations of the course.
I would very much appreciate a copy of the assignments. My email is in my profile (I'll happily use whichever transfer method is most convenient for you, of course - gist, etc.)
I did a minor in CS, and was blocked from taking algorithms coursework due to budget cuts. I read Cormen's Intro to Algorithms last year, but coursera's algorithms course has been amazing for filling in gaps in my knowledge. I absolutely recommend it :)
Currently working towards one. I've been offered many promotions despite not having one, and I have almost 5 years of experience now in the field.
But I still feel like completing my CS degree, just because it wouldn't hurt to have it, and just because there's some personal pride involved (first person in my family to pursue a degree).
While having a degree in CS by no means guarantees this, I feel it has made me a better programmer by forcing me to learn theory behind things I would probably have otherwise ignored. Not every job needs this understanding, but the lower level you work at, the more you need it.
Also, the contacts made can of course be very helpful. That's what got me my current job. These can also be made elsewhere, but it's easy to be surrounded with lots of other CS people when you're in school.
However, if you're motivated and a good self-learner starting out, I don't think most places care where you got your knowledge once you've had some real world experience.
I graduated high school in 2009, went to college for a year, decided it wasn't for me. Dropped out, wasted a couple years before realizing I loved working with computers. Moved half-way across the country and started reading Craiglist. Got a job as the sole web-developer for a web-to-print company. I am doing interesting web development work right now and I'm loving it. I've finally found my start in this industry. I'm still young, but I can't see there being that much value for me in getting a degree. I'm ready to go, I'm ready to dive in and build stuff. I don't see any reason for putting on the brakes.
doctorate in biochemistry. never had a CS class taught to me in my life, i just picked up various textbooks and learned as much as i could. while i still don't get RBTrees i've done more than i had ever expected as a professional computer scientist, including mentoring students, publishing, and even a patent.
I don't have a degree at all, but I have been programming since the age of 9, completely self-taught. At first I found it difficult to find employment, but with enough work experience, degree or lack thereof no longer even comes up. The degree is a huge boon to getting your foot in whatever door you're looking at, but once in, suddenly becomes more or less irrelevant. However, this being said, I'm 37 and have been programming for what feels like forever, so my market entrance in the 90s may not parallel someone today. It may be more or less difficult; I have no idea.
I do not have a CS degree because I am missing a single unimportant class. My advisor had told me that I could use a certain class to fill this requirement for both of my majors, but in reality the two majors required different classes for this requirement. I ended up with a math degree, though.
I'm "In Progress", I was doing contract work while I was still in high school and took two years off after high school to work at a variety of companies, then left a 6-figure job at 19 to go back to school and finish my degree so I wouldn't have a hard time finding jobs in the future (and because I knew that if I didn't do it then, which allowed me to graduate college the same year as my high school classmates, I would never do it).
I guess what I'm saying is I hope this poll ends up saying that while not a requirement, it's nice to have a degree (mine's going to be in Math/Economics) else I've definitely wasted some time and money :)
As an economist I wish more people would follow the math/econ option and add CS coursework. Unfortunately, most economist are scared to venture beyond Excel, Stata, and SAS, and I believe this creates a professional focus on static models.
Careerwise, not studying CS has not impacted my income, but it may have impacted my ability to get a job in CS. However, I blame this more on my own inability to signal CS competency.
Luck and a fantastic recruiter. In two years I went from doing freelance work online while working in retail to being a low level employee at a startup to being the only local programmer at that same startup to working at a company that really needed my skill-set (mobile development). The recruiter kicked in for the last one, everything else I looked for myself.
Are you asking for your own rates or are you letting other people decide for you? At my previous company I saw a guy exactly our age get hired without any recruiter or anything and the amount of money he asked for was so low it was embarrassing, we hired him quickly due to how much he asked but honestly with his experience and knowledge he should've been paid much closer to what I got rather than we he asked for, but he was young so he didn't dare ask for something fair.
I have a non CS related degree and am about two years in to a CS degree. I have not taken any classes in about 6 months and do not know whether I will resume doing so. So...I put non CS related degree.
With or without a degree, if you spend any time doing freelance work, make sure to incorporate and pay yourself a salary. You might try this as soon as you turn 18, or as an undergraduate.
In my experience, HR departments can use these records for salary justification down the road. With policies like: 'experience may be substituted for education on a 2:1 basis' in effect, you may find yourself paid on par with people having advanced degrees, based only on your self-employment history. Your mileage may vary.
175 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 206 ms ] threadI don't have a CS degree, but it didn't affect my career at all. I feel that CS would be helpful for interviews and expressing the problem using CS terms. I used to read up on basic CS stuff and talk to CS friends to gain CS knowledge. As long as, one can read and write english and familiar with basic math (logarithms, algebra, calculus, probability etc.), CS is very easy to pick up.
I'm in the mathematics degree category as well, with a career mainly in numerical programming.
Of course, that's not to say that this would preclude someone from being employed in many of the same jobs offered to CS graduates, but it underlines the fact that the two disciplines are still very different, even if they involve related skills. If we only used the 'employable in the same jobs' benchmark, then psychology and sociology degrees might 'count' as history degrees.
Several months later, a headhunter sent me to interview for that job, which was still open because they hadn't been able to find anyone with the necessary Unix experience before I applied.
I got the job.
They could have had me several months earlier, and without having to pay several thousand dollars to a headhunter, if they had not stuck on that requirement for a master's degree in their ad in the paper.
I've always ignored them and it's never been a problem.
At that time in my life, it wasn't even possible for me to have a computer science degree so this startup clearly wasn't affected.
It was around this time also (when faced with the prospect of wanting to go to University for a degree) that I look around at all of the courses available to me and did some research on what I wanted to do.
I really didn't like the look of a single CS degree. I was only really interested in the web and most courses which had any focus on "web technologies"/"the web in general" were so outdated. I didn't have anyone to ask for advice so I figured I could probably learn everything I needed to by hand. I still wanted a degree so I picked a degree which I knew would be well regarded for my entire life. I don't regret that at all.
The only gaping holes in my knowledge which I wish I could fill in, would be advanced maths, some cryptography theory and general algorithm knowledge.
I wouldn't say that I've suffered one bit by not doing a CS degree. The startup that I'm working on has applied to YCombinator and I've build up everything I've needed to through self taught work.
Clearly, depending on the field you want to go into, my path might not work for you, but I've not suffered.
I spent most of my time where I had to the choice of study on intellectual property. If in 5 years time things don't work out for me, I would have just one year left to qualify as a solicitor.
But saying that, I have at least 10 years worth of startup ideas so the liklihood of that is looking pretty slim!
I ended up joining a course but dropped out after less than a month; the first sign that it wasn't going to work out was at the initial interview where someone said "You've done some web work I see? I bet you'll be able to teach me a thing or two!" that person was the head lecturer.
Algorithms, advanced maths, and cryptography are also the areas I feel I lack.
All in all, I don't think I've suffered in the slightest either. Finding the first job was probably a bit tricker, but in hindsight I've had an additional 3/4 years earning good wages than those people who did do the degrees. I'm not strongly opinionated as to whether they're worthwhile or not, but I don't believe I've been negatively impacted by it.
I have thought a few times that the traditional style of education simply isn't applicable to some people; I was never very good at school, but flourished once I learnt how to teach myself what I wanted to learn.
to fill those gaps. I've taken both classes at my university and have learned more in the first few lectures of these free online classes than I learned all semester at university.
Here's what appears to be a third party uploading all the Algorithm videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2TwK3fED8A&context=C4809...
If you'd like a copy of the assignments I can send them to you.
My guess is that they'll iterate over the material and open again next "semester." I'm at a loss as to why they're still operating under "semester" paradigms. Will likely be removed after a few iterations of the course.
I would very much appreciate a copy of the assignments. My email is in my profile (I'll happily use whichever transfer method is most convenient for you, of course - gist, etc.)
But I still feel like completing my CS degree, just because it wouldn't hurt to have it, and just because there's some personal pride involved (first person in my family to pursue a degree).
Also, the contacts made can of course be very helpful. That's what got me my current job. These can also be made elsewhere, but it's easy to be surrounded with lots of other CS people when you're in school.
However, if you're motivated and a good self-learner starting out, I don't think most places care where you got your knowledge once you've had some real world experience.
I guess what I'm saying is I hope this poll ends up saying that while not a requirement, it's nice to have a degree (mine's going to be in Math/Economics) else I've definitely wasted some time and money :)
Careerwise, not studying CS has not impacted my income, but it may have impacted my ability to get a job in CS. However, I blame this more on my own inability to signal CS competency.
Are you asking for your own rates or are you letting other people decide for you? At my previous company I saw a guy exactly our age get hired without any recruiter or anything and the amount of money he asked for was so low it was embarrassing, we hired him quickly due to how much he asked but honestly with his experience and knowledge he should've been paid much closer to what I got rather than we he asked for, but he was young so he didn't dare ask for something fair.
Don't undervalue yourself.
In my experience, HR departments can use these records for salary justification down the road. With policies like: 'experience may be substituted for education on a 2:1 basis' in effect, you may find yourself paid on par with people having advanced degrees, based only on your self-employment history. Your mileage may vary.