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Maybe it's a one-in-a-million problem. When you make two million cars most will be fine but a handful will have inadequate sealing so the battery will get flooded.
What I’ve noticed (as a Tesla owner) is that the impression you get from reading things on the internet is completely different from the impression you get as an owner. I’m sure there are people with these issues: Tesla has sold enough cars for all sorts of low-probability events to happen (and I have my own share of annoyances with the car) but, overall, the car is the best car I’ve driven and my experience as an owner has been consistently better than the impression I get from the news stories about Teslas.
I see. The quotes from the owners of the vehicle describe rather bad, but not extraordinary bad weather. One of course can assume lying on behalf of the owners, but why wouldn’t one equally assume poor handling of a manufacturing issue on behalf of the servicer?
Because I've never heard of a Tesla lose its battery to water. It doesn't make sense to me either - the article is implying that if you get a flash flood that gets to your knee level, you might lose your 70,000 pound vehicle.
It is interesting because the fossil fuel industry may or may not like them. In the short term they are probably good for coal, bad for refined petrochemicals. Long term they make both irrelevant.
Except jet fuel, fertilizer, heating, steel production etc. Don't get me wrong, electric vehicles is a good thing, but it won't fix fossil fuels in itself.
I'm not sure that there's a name for that kind of maths error, but there is a reason why people keep making it, as Matt Parker discusses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6egeUxIEQnM.
Given that Musk can also control pricing, it is technically the truth. It merely remains to introduce a Tesla product at that price point and manufacture eight billion units
People think billions have a significant amount of money compared to countries all the time. I blame the media.
I've seriously gotten into debates about Medicare and Medicaid and how it costs $1.5 trillion per year and how it would at-least double in costs to cover the nation and people honestly think billions in the country could be taxed to fund it. The willful ignorance that even if we took every single dollar they own it would barely give us any runway with no one left to tax after.
Tesla would have been the electric car to buy many years ago, but the well established auto makers have proceduced excellent electric vehicles that outmatch in terms of build quality, features and support.
A car is not a joke. It's one of the more expensive purchases in one's life and having confidence in your vehicle is important. Quality, reliability and after care support is what the established automakers do well.
excellent electric vehicles that outmatch in terms of build quality, features and support
Well, not so much. Some of them get the build quality right. But generally features and specs like efficiency, range, and acceleration lag behind. And in the charging experience Tesla is still leading by a long shot.
If I had to rank those features, I'd put build quality way ahead of acceleration. I can't think of a situation where the difference between 0-60 in 3.5 seconds vs 4 seconds actually matters, but build quality impacts the car whenever you're in it.
TBH i find it a little concerning that anyone can buy a 4.5 ton car like the Hummer EV that can accelerate to 60mph in 3 seconds and change
If I had to rank those features, I'd put build quality way ahead of acceleration
The most critical one is the actual charging experience. Tesla is literally in a league of its own, until the NACS switchover gets implemented by the various other manufacturers who have agreed to.
The second most critical one is Autopilot/FSD. Even in Beta, FSD is a life-changer / game-changer! Seriously, road trips have gone to basically zero stress and fatigue. Arguments with my wife about driving have also become a thing of the past.
Then third, would be the over the air updates. The car poses basically Zero maintenance burden on me, but continually gets better over time.
There’s a distorted view of people who don’t own an EV. The reality is different, and it’s one that most people don’t want to go back from, ever!
Isn't Autopilot basically just adaptive cruise control + lane guidance? I think those features are pretty commoditized now. My non-tesla car does both (although the lane changes are so overly cautious that if I'm in traffic I do it myself).
Definitely with you on charging experience + OTA updates though. I imagine the charging experience will mostly be solved in the next few years, but it's disappointing how some (most? All?) legacy car companies still make you go to a service center for patches. Plus, 2015 Teslas still get patches... I can't imagine my car will have any significant changes going forward
Isn't Autopilot basically just adaptive cruise control + lane guidance?
I haven’t used Autopilot for so long, maybe I shouldn’t comment on it any more, since my info is years out of date at this point. If you think of it in this context, FSD beta is basically the shockingly superior best example of that kind of feature, so long as you remember to hit the “minimal lane changes” button. Which you have remember to do every time. :( (To be fair, it’s not 100% perfect.)
But then again, there are basically many occasions, where it just straight up drives me home. FSD is quite a bit more than just adaptive cruise control + lane guidance. Even with the requirement that I need to pay attention, it’s still mostly like being driven around.
If you have a garage, then just buy a Tesla. Even if you only have 110v, charging at home overnight with a car that needs close to 0 maintenance is a game changer. No visits to the gas station. No oil changes. No smog test. Costs about half as much to “fuel.” No more petroleum and exhaust smells in the garage. Supercharging just works seamlessly. Here in CA, I can go to even somewhat remote places and charge on road trips without much thought.
I'm not buying a Tesla because [reasons]. I'm eyeing a Bolt, but... slow charging. And yes, I do have a driveway to put a charger outside, though, which would work for 95% of my driving needs. So the slower charging wouldn't kill me, but, WTF, Chevy?
(I have a garage, too, but that's there the motorbikes live.)
I really do love competition but there is still a lot of the experience of driving a Tesla that I prefer.
I rented an EV6 and there are so many "misses" in terms of usability that just really annoy me. Things like easily leaving the AC on when getting out of the car (we were in hot Arizona) or being able to unlatch the charging cable while actively charging (you need to shut all of the doors and press unlock on the keyfob which I found after googling).
That and Tesla has extremely competitive prices for the Model 3 and Model Y in the US right now.
If you're looking at fact sheets (and not preference of company or CEO, which is definitely a valid way to vote with your wallet) Tesla is still extremely competitive.
I'm wondering if they did infact submerge the part of the car in water.
They all but say that in the article.
The headline is Tesla clickbait, as it clearly wasn't just related to driving in the rain, but rather submerging part of the car in water. Probably from driving through a deep enough puddle of water on the road!
As I kid I rode along as my neighbor drove his pickup truck up to the headlights through a flood in order to save some animals from drowning. If the truck had a stalled we probably would've been pushed off the road and ended up heading down the river.
What they don’t tell you about vehicles designed to do this (a deuce and a half can go almost submerged with the right snorkel kit) is that you get to replace the grease in basically every seal afterwards.
Gotta be careful with this. Many vehicles have to be modified so the exhaust is higher, electric, etc. Also, I've always heard that cold water on a hot engine block can cause cracks, but not sure how true that is. Most cars can't ford water like this.
Your differential probably has a vent. If you get your axles good and hot and then shock-cool them driving through a cold puddle, the air inside the diff may shrink and suck water in through the vent.
Gear oil plus water equals a substance which will not lubricate your differential gear and unless you drain out the foamy oil/water soup, you’ll have Problems.
Almost any car driven with water 'up to the headlights' is in extreme risk of getting hydrolocked by water getting into the air intake. If that happens, the motor is toast and needs to rebuilt for many thousands of dollars (easily 10k+ for a new car). This isn't any different, in my view.
Sure. I'm not advising anyone do this of course. I feel like heavy rains are a solvable problem for EVs, its probably an easier problem for them to solve compared to ICE. I shared the story to show how sometimes vehicles need to exceed their design parameters, could've easily been people in danger there instead of animals.
People were in danger there. People drown regularly driving into shallower water than "up to the headlights". That you made it out didn't mean it was safe; I'd be pretty mad if my neighbor risked my kid's life in this way to save some animals.
No judgment on your decision there at all, props rather. I'm just saying you shouldn't have expected the truck to survive (unless other modifications were done, eg snorkel). Same with an EV, I would fully expect damage if I'm driving in water up to the headlights. Sometimes that's a sacrifice worth making though.
> Six inches of water will reach the bottom of most passenger cars causing loss of control and possible stalling. A foot of water will float many vehicles. Two feet of rushing water can carry away most vehicles including sport utility vehicles (SUV’s) and pick-ups.
You also don't know if there's washed-away bits of road that suddenly get deeper until you drive into them.
I still feel like it's a design flaw. Smartphones went through a similar headache period. Water damage killed countless phones, and the standard reply back then was it's your fault - pay up. In this case, it is arguable that cars should be more resistant to getting wet than phones.
I guess my question is, why isn't the battery and its early connecters better sealed off from water, and is there anything you can put in place to prevent bricking a $17k part if it detects water intrusion.
Great point. It's also much harder to service which is also true for phones. But we discard phones after a couple of years, cars should be serviceable for decades.
They already run coolant through tesla batteries so they must be water tight to some degree. The connectors got wet in this situation. That's just poor craftsmanship.
>I guess my question is, why isn't the battery and its early connecters better sealed off from water, and is there anything you can put in place to prevent bricking a $17k part if it detects water intrusion.
You should read walter isaicsons new book on Elon. Elon maniacally checks every requirement and process. They literally talk about this in the book. It was deemed "Stupid" to have inserts to make the bottom of the cabin waterproof.
I’m not arguing your point. I don’t use “honestly” as a colloquial phrase or crutch word, but I think this has at some point passed into the vernacular as a crutch word.
I’m not defending the parties making the claims either. Just an observation.
I live on a road that floods regularly and I'm always amazed by how many drivers are willing to drive into water that is over two feet deep[1]. Car after car, they plunge in like amphibious operation is a standard feature on new vehicles, sending water over the hood and a wake across my front lawn. All that is to say, I would not be surprised if these people forged ahead into deep waters and are playing dumb when it didn't work out.
Water over the wheel hubs is a big deal. If you read your owner's manual submerged hubs requires re-lubing, at the very least. If you submerge a diff or crankcase those have to be drained and redone as well.
I'm not seeing the issue .. we already ramp and block cars and trailers about every 18 months and relube hubs etc, have done for years (since ~1960 by my recollection).
I mainly leave that to my father who was born and 1935 and still loves doing that kind of routine maintainence, he used to ride ring pounders through the Kimberley floods back in the day:
Maybe routine maintenance in your parts (which would make sense if you're frequently fording rivers). For most car owners it's something that needs to be done... basically never. Can't blame them for not knowing something like that.
Any modern vehicle 1 ton and smaller doesn't have hubs that you can repack with grease (except Ford E350), and hasn't for the last 20 years. Everything has unit bearings that you can't disassemble, except full floating rear axles where the wheel bearings are bathed in the differential oil.
Edit: I see you're in Australia, so 70 series Land Cruiser also has spindles in the front axle.
> An Edinburgh couple say they are “in shock” after claiming Tesla gave them a £17,000 bill to fix their battery that was ‘damaged by the rain’.
> He continued: “They said that the battery is effectively submerged in water. How can that be our fault? “After finally getting to speak to a manager, he told me it had water in it due to the fact the weather in Scotland has been so bad. That was the issue. They said it’s not necessarily my fault but it’s not Tesla’s to pay under warranty. He reminded me there was a yellow weather warning in some parts of Scotland.
> Obviously, it was wet with the weather last week, but I honestly can’t remember any huge puddles or anything like that. It’s not like I was driving my car through the Cairngorms.
Or the other possibility is their car had some defect not affecting every Tesla. Maybe the guy building it forgot a seal on something that lead to the intrusion of water. It is too early and not enough information to come to a conclusion yet.
I’ve grown to love winter for how it saves my region from being a testing ground for the thousand robotics startups that cram hacker-quality ROS-based code into some Apple-wannabe base platform and shove it out the door to deliver or monitor something.
The Model 3 is being sold by the millions globally, to markets with nearly every type of weather. Failure due to driving in the rain, is very obviously not common at all.
There's not enough evidence here to come to that conclusion. Edinburgh floods [1], just as California does. Sometimes people try to drive in deep water that they shouldn't. I've seen it, I've done it, and there's whole YouTube channels dedicated to it, where you'll find Teslas owners who apparently think the lack of an engine makes it possible (and they're somewhat correct!).
And, California floods, quite often. I've seen floating cars in SF. I've seen flooded engines a dozen miles from the Tesla factory.
As a Tesla owner, it's pretty clear these people are lying about what they did to the car.
Tesla's become one of the most popular brand in the US and sells cars all over the world. The idea that a Tesla can't stand a normal puddle of water is ridiculous.
This is just dumb tabloid garbage and of course HN gets bamboozled again.
How is it clear? I see Tesla as potentially at fault. In fact, I have a friend who’s Tesla was bricked in exactly the same way. He finally got them to replace the battery under warranty.
But can it stand to an exceptional puddle? Pretty sure no one is contesting that they can drive their Tesla in the rain. The question is if you live in a place that has outlier weather from where it was tested is the manufacturer responsible for their product?
I think that is an unfair assessment of the situation. There have been lots of quality control issues noted in teslas over the years. Maybe there is a flaw under the windshield where it is supposed to drain water if it got plugged with leaves it overflows down into the battery compartment? I’m not saying that is what happened it could be users fault but I am not going to put it out of the realm of possibility that teslas are infallible. Surely if the car was that wet there would be signs that the floor boards are wet as well? Tesla should come forward with evidence that this was not their fault as it seems it should be pretty easy to show. How can water get into the batter? It’s not sealed? How did this happen not just battery was wet. It was noted that there was extreme weather rain did that play a role? I need more information before I come to a conclusion.
"Problem that effects the entire fleet of cars" vs "they're lying" is a false dichotomy. Personally I think it's more likely that they're not lying and this particular car had a manufacturing defect.
But you seem to be very confident that it couldn't be a manufacturing defect with this particular car. How did you manage to rule this out?
Garages are also much less common in europe, so cars are often stored in driveways. It's not like the car would have avoided the rain by not being driven, so I have to agree with the owners here. If the car fails in rain (especially at just a yellow warning level), it's not suitable for sale in large parts of Europe.
Hmm, not sure who to beleive on this. If it was caused by extreme weather, then their car insurance should cover it? If it was caused by poor seal in manufacturing, it would be a warranty issue. The poor customer service is something I can beleive though!
Perhaps that'd be an interesting thought experiment - what recourse do you have if you are purchasing Tesla along with a Tesla auto insurance?
Is there any expectation - in the event of a manufacturing defect - that the Tesla auto insurance division is firewalled enough from the Tesla auto division to aggressively go after claims on your behalf?
I am very curious about this, because my understanding was that any EV would fare better in wet conditions than most ICE vehicles, because the battery has so much insulation around it.
When I first got my EV, I was worried about how it would fare in the rain, especially when driving over large puddles. After reading about the insulation, I felt comfortable driving it in extremely wet conditions.
Now I'm worried that I may have to rethink that. Am I supposed to be worried about splash getting into the pack, staying there, and slowly ruining the battery? If I keep driving long enough, will motion plus the heat of the battery pack be enough to dissipate the moisture? Since I live in an extremely humid location, is that a concern too?
I've seen footage of Model 3s operating in flood zones, with the rear wheels essentially serving as propellers. Of course, I've never seen the results of what happened afterwards. Presumably the water got into the batteries, and the car would no longer start.
In that case, the driving-through-water functionality would mainly be for an emergency where the only other option is a complete loss of the vehicle, and/or something more valuable than the batteries, whether its a life or possessions.
I didn't think about that until now, because my previous assumption was that it was fine to drive an EV over water. I thought that the the only exposure that the batteries had to the outside world was through the charge port and the engine, and everything else was protected by insulation. But I didn't think about what the insulation actually was. I imagined it as some sort of metal or plastic shell.
edit: I hadn't seen this video before, but I know there's at least one other tweet Elon made where he doesn't disapprove of something that, as I now understand, is probably going to render the vehicle inoperable in the near future due the battery pack failing after exposure to water:
> at least one other tweet Elon made where he doesn't disapprove
Of course, lack of disapproval doesn't mean approval, and visa-versa. The documents that were signed, not an silly two word tweet, is what determines liability.
The batteries have breather valves. If subjected to enough pressure, they can lead to water ingress. Despite Musk's statements, submersion isn't recommended.
I have never heard of one failing from a puddle or just "rain", though. It makes me think there is more to this story.
Yeah you have to first press reject all and then press the save and exit button on the bottom. It is getting tougher and tougher to opt out of tracking.
Even if the story is false, Tesla, launched to the stratosphere (literally and figuratively) in just a few years, keeps on showing it is still very green in the automotive industry. Long term reliability is a crucial factor for a vehicle, and is something that Tesla seems to be struggling with. I'm not very keen on building your car around a huge touch screen. This alongside stories of locking features for certain customers, or geofencing features in certain areas, kept me from jumping on the Tesla wagon.
Tesla definitely transformered the automative industry, but I feel like they have a long way to go still, and they really need to focus on their car being a car, first and foremost.
Having lived in the Irish countryside for a number of years in my teens, I would absolutely expect any car to successfully manage the depth shown from the third car until the nighttime shots. My parents drove some cheap cars late in their lifespan through worse.
Having seen those videos before, a lot of people cause ICE failures. Having said that, their approach and speed are often a big part of it.
The Teslas should be fine, but submersion is really not recommended and this is getting really close. The breather valves can leak if subjected to enough force.
Leaking leads to corrosion which leads to really expensive repairs.
Perhaps a factor which exacerbates things is the placement of the battery/electronics due to the Tesla skateboard design which means the battery is quite low off the ground - especially for the Model 3 and Model S.
In a traditional ICE car or an ICE/EV/PHEV platform I can imagine there are more options to put things higher up within in the front chassis.
In most cases, I'd guess that an EV would outperform an ICE vehicle when wading through water, as the battery can be fully sealed and there's no risk of water-locking the engine due to the absence of intakes or exhausts.
Interestingly I wonder if it's an issue of just a difference between the two designs in terms of scenarios its optimized for (a.k.a. there's a tradeoff).
If the EV's skateboard battery water seal is functioning perfectly then EV will perform well, perhaps better than a traditional design ICE/EV/PHEV platform.
If the EV's skateboard battery water seal has been compromised, then due to its relatively low placement, a lower than normal water levels may cause significant damages.
cars designed to drive 100s of thousands of miles aren't susceptible to random splashes even if the battery is low.
I think the most likely explanation here is that the battery compartment was damaged in a way that allows water intrusion, and then they drove in extremely wet weather which splashed into the compartment.
Did they have an AI generate the links in this article? "An edinburgh couple" links to a different edinburgh couple's lottery win. "car stopped working" links to an unrelated car crash. etc.
I mean the owner pretty much admits to driving through puddles, the question is how deep they were, but my bet would be that they did in fact submerge the bottom of the car. Most electric car owners would be aware enough about what type of car they have and what the limitations are to not do such a thing.
Then relevant quote is:
> I’ve been driving for 30 years and this is my most premium car to date and this is what it does when Edinburgh’s roads get puddles or a little wet!”
So he's been driving ICE-cars through puddles for 30 years, and because his Tesla cost more than his previous cars he expects it should be able to do at least as much. But obviously there are going to be fundamental differences between an electric car and a gasoline car when it comes to semi amphibious endeavors, and a Tesla Model S doesn't store the batteries in the ceiling.
It depends upon what they are calling a puddle. I've seen a ten foot span of road covered by nearly a foot of water (at it's deepest point). Going at speed in a car, it may not look like much. I have also seen photos of people trying to go through fairly significant chunks of flooded roads. If there are people willing to do that, there are probably even more people who would go through something they perceive as a puddle.
My laptop can't handle being submerged in a puddle why would a car? It's batteries being submerged, the doors aren't waterproof. It's not a amphebian vehicle. If the puddles are deep enough to leak water into your car and your car has batteries you shouldn't drive through it. If you do and the batteries die, then you can't expect your warranty to cover you. Nothing prevents you from taking your laptop in the shower, but if you drop it and it dies, then you gotta pay for it. Seems reasonable enough.
Based on what I've heard about Edinburgh's potholes a puddle is more akin to a massive lake rather than a small puddle. In fact I heard last week there was an where an eight stories tall crustacean from the protozoic era was residing in the Edinburgh potholes and asking for tree-fiddy.
Not defending Tesla's horrible response to this specific incident, but obviously this happening in the first place is an outlier. On any given day, there are millions of Teslas driving in the rain without problems.
Edinburgh Live is the absolute bottom of the barrel of news websites, so I'm a little surprised to see it on here.
We've also had what can only really be described as "biblical" rain in the last week - according to the met office [0] it was the wettest 2 day period on record. The flooding was really something else [1] [2]. That doesn't mean that they're not lying, but I would hold judgement on Tesla in this case.
I drove an early model 3 through about 3” of standing water on the BQE in Brooklyn and immediately heard a dragging sound from the undercarriage. Turned out the water spray had torn (or finished tearing) the acoustic dampening material on the underside of the chassis and flaps of it were now dragging on the ground. I took it to Tesla and they said the repair would be hundreds (can’t remember the amount) but that it wouldn’t happen again because the part they were replacing it with had been redesigned. I said something along the lines of ‘you’re telling me ~2 years into the life of this model and you’ve redesigned the part, but that you want me to pay for the one that doesn’t fail when driving through a puddle?’ They comped the repair. This is one of many disappointing Tesla service stories I wish I didn’t have. The incentives of the manufacturer being the exclusive service provider for warranty issues are not aligned, IMO.
My Yamaha(motorcycle, 12k usd) recently had an RMA due to potential water issues. Yamaha fixed the potential problem, and would have resolved any further issues from the root cause of water/corrosion.
I overfilled the oil in my Subaru forester which caused the engine to explode and coat the interior of the engine housing with hot oil.
When I brought it in they said "the car is still under warranty so we'll replace the engine for free. BTW, Joe had to spend an entire day with the pressure washer. Next time, don't overfill the oil."
I was daydreaming a lot about what I would do if I encountered the unprecedented floods in NYC. Seems like your best bet for a ICE car is a Bronco and a Rivian R1T/S for EV.
Doesn't say if they drove through flood waters or just heavy rain. If the former, then perhaps the owners were expecting something for nothing. This article seems bent on spreading irresponsible misinformation rather than bringing evidence or clarity.
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(edit: if it's a real problem and it damages the batteries; I don't have a Tesla so I have no idea)
So the implication is that this one was parked in a river or someone tried to ford with it.
At least we can stop burning the Picassos to move people from their house to the pub!
> The thing is, Elon Musk could buy everyone in the world a Tesla if he wanted to.”
Is there a name for this kind of math error? For this to be true, a Tesla would have to cost something like $30.
This is a quote from a frustrated car owner who conversationally exaggerated. Did you read the article?
I've seriously gotten into debates about Medicare and Medicaid and how it costs $1.5 trillion per year and how it would at-least double in costs to cover the nation and people honestly think billions in the country could be taxed to fund it. The willful ignorance that even if we took every single dollar they own it would barely give us any runway with no one left to tax after.
A car is not a joke. It's one of the more expensive purchases in one's life and having confidence in your vehicle is important. Quality, reliability and after care support is what the established automakers do well.
Well, not so much. Some of them get the build quality right. But generally features and specs like efficiency, range, and acceleration lag behind. And in the charging experience Tesla is still leading by a long shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1TFZuIUviQ
TBH i find it a little concerning that anyone can buy a 4.5 ton car like the Hummer EV that can accelerate to 60mph in 3 seconds and change
The most critical one is the actual charging experience. Tesla is literally in a league of its own, until the NACS switchover gets implemented by the various other manufacturers who have agreed to.
The second most critical one is Autopilot/FSD. Even in Beta, FSD is a life-changer / game-changer! Seriously, road trips have gone to basically zero stress and fatigue. Arguments with my wife about driving have also become a thing of the past.
Then third, would be the over the air updates. The car poses basically Zero maintenance burden on me, but continually gets better over time.
There’s a distorted view of people who don’t own an EV. The reality is different, and it’s one that most people don’t want to go back from, ever!
Definitely with you on charging experience + OTA updates though. I imagine the charging experience will mostly be solved in the next few years, but it's disappointing how some (most? All?) legacy car companies still make you go to a service center for patches. Plus, 2015 Teslas still get patches... I can't imagine my car will have any significant changes going forward
I haven’t used Autopilot for so long, maybe I shouldn’t comment on it any more, since my info is years out of date at this point. If you think of it in this context, FSD beta is basically the shockingly superior best example of that kind of feature, so long as you remember to hit the “minimal lane changes” button. Which you have remember to do every time. :( (To be fair, it’s not 100% perfect.)
But then again, there are basically many occasions, where it just straight up drives me home. FSD is quite a bit more than just adaptive cruise control + lane guidance. Even with the requirement that I need to pay attention, it’s still mostly like being driven around.
This is the one thing holding me back from buying an EV in general.
(I have a garage, too, but that's there the motorbikes live.)
I rented an EV6 and there are so many "misses" in terms of usability that just really annoy me. Things like easily leaving the AC on when getting out of the car (we were in hot Arizona) or being able to unlatch the charging cable while actively charging (you need to shut all of the doors and press unlock on the keyfob which I found after googling).
That and Tesla has extremely competitive prices for the Model 3 and Model Y in the US right now.
If you're looking at fact sheets (and not preference of company or CEO, which is definitely a valid way to vote with your wallet) Tesla is still extremely competitive.
They all but say that in the article.
The headline is Tesla clickbait, as it clearly wasn't just related to driving in the rain, but rather submerging part of the car in water. Probably from driving through a deep enough puddle of water on the road!
Electric cars have to do better than this.
Your differential probably has a vent. If you get your axles good and hot and then shock-cool them driving through a cold puddle, the air inside the diff may shrink and suck water in through the vent.
Gear oil plus water equals a substance which will not lubricate your differential gear and unless you drain out the foamy oil/water soup, you’ll have Problems.
Sounds like a lot more than an old truck was at risk there.
https://www.weather.gov/tsa/hydro_tadd
> Six inches of water will reach the bottom of most passenger cars causing loss of control and possible stalling. A foot of water will float many vehicles. Two feet of rushing water can carry away most vehicles including sport utility vehicles (SUV’s) and pick-ups.
You also don't know if there's washed-away bits of road that suddenly get deeper until you drive into them.
I guess my question is, why isn't the battery and its early connecters better sealed off from water, and is there anything you can put in place to prevent bricking a $17k part if it detects water intrusion.
I'm not sure how other manufacturers compare.
Its a car not a boat. Unless you are an offroad vehicle, do you really expect cars to be crossing anything bigger than big puddle of water?
You should read walter isaicsons new book on Elon. Elon maniacally checks every requirement and process. They literally talk about this in the book. It was deemed "Stupid" to have inserts to make the bottom of the cabin waterproof.
This is a good point, they do not say that they submerged a part of the car anywhere in the article.
> I honestly can’t remember any huge puddles or anything like that
Something tells me he remembers a fairly big puddle.
I’m not defending the parties making the claims either. Just an observation.
1. https://i.imgur.com/htJzqJY.jpg
Caveat: I live in Australia, we have cars with higher ground clearance and snorkels for when the water gets properly deep.
I mainly leave that to my father who was born and 1935 and still loves doing that kind of routine maintainence, he used to ride ring pounders through the Kimberley floods back in the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47q6RiwcILg
It's just routine vehicle maintenance, make it a habit and tthey last for years.
Edit: I see you're in Australia, so 70 series Land Cruiser also has spindles in the front axle.
> An Edinburgh couple say they are “in shock” after claiming Tesla gave them a £17,000 bill to fix their battery that was ‘damaged by the rain’.
> He continued: “They said that the battery is effectively submerged in water. How can that be our fault? “After finally getting to speak to a manager, he told me it had water in it due to the fact the weather in Scotland has been so bad. That was the issue. They said it’s not necessarily my fault but it’s not Tesla’s to pay under warranty. He reminded me there was a yellow weather warning in some parts of Scotland.
> Obviously, it was wet with the weather last week, but I honestly can’t remember any huge puddles or anything like that. It’s not like I was driving my car through the Cairngorms.
I wonder why you don't hear their millions of other owners complaining about the car failing after driving in a puddle...?
The obvious answer is that this couple is lying and the tabloid newsletter is just printing their BS.
The Model 3 is being sold by the millions globally, to markets with nearly every type of weather. Failure due to driving in the rain, is very obviously not common at all.
And, California floods, quite often. I've seen floating cars in SF. I've seen flooded engines a dozen miles from the Tesla factory.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG35xJtJb08
Tesla's become one of the most popular brand in the US and sells cars all over the world. The idea that a Tesla can't stand a normal puddle of water is ridiculous.
This is just dumb tabloid garbage and of course HN gets bamboozled again.
But you seem to be very confident that it couldn't be a manufacturing defect with this particular car. How did you manage to rule this out?
What are you agreeing with the owners about exactly? The article reads like trite clickbait.
Is there any expectation - in the event of a manufacturing defect - that the Tesla auto insurance division is firewalled enough from the Tesla auto division to aggressively go after claims on your behalf?
As much as Tesla might not like it UK consumers have rights and a sealed car battery getting flooded seems like a manufacturing fault
When I first got my EV, I was worried about how it would fare in the rain, especially when driving over large puddles. After reading about the insulation, I felt comfortable driving it in extremely wet conditions.
Now I'm worried that I may have to rethink that. Am I supposed to be worried about splash getting into the pack, staying there, and slowly ruining the battery? If I keep driving long enough, will motion plus the heat of the battery pack be enough to dissipate the moisture? Since I live in an extremely humid location, is that a concern too?
I've seen footage of Model 3s operating in flood zones, with the rear wheels essentially serving as propellers. Of course, I've never seen the results of what happened afterwards. Presumably the water got into the batteries, and the car would no longer start.
In that case, the driving-through-water functionality would mainly be for an emergency where the only other option is a complete loss of the vehicle, and/or something more valuable than the batteries, whether its a life or possessions.
I didn't think about that until now, because my previous assumption was that it was fine to drive an EV over water. I thought that the the only exposure that the batteries had to the outside world was through the charge port and the engine, and everything else was protected by insulation. But I didn't think about what the insulation actually was. I imagined it as some sort of metal or plastic shell.
edit: I hadn't seen this video before, but I know there's at least one other tweet Elon made where he doesn't disapprove of something that, as I now understand, is probably going to render the vehicle inoperable in the near future due the battery pack failing after exposure to water:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1615397502798409729
Of course, lack of disapproval doesn't mean approval, and visa-versa. The documents that were signed, not an silly two word tweet, is what determines liability.
I have never heard of one failing from a puddle or just "rain", though. It makes me think there is more to this story.
For example there was a warning just a few weeks ago for ev owners to park outside in higher ground due after a couple vehicles caught fire after hurricane Idalia: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-idalia-electric-car-c...
Tesla definitely transformered the automative industry, but I feel like they have a long way to go still, and they really need to focus on their car being a car, first and foremost.
The Teslas should be fine, but submersion is really not recommended and this is getting really close. The breather valves can leak if subjected to enough force.
Leaking leads to corrosion which leads to really expensive repairs.
In a traditional ICE car or an ICE/EV/PHEV platform I can imagine there are more options to put things higher up within in the front chassis.
Interestingly I wonder if it's an issue of just a difference between the two designs in terms of scenarios its optimized for (a.k.a. there's a tradeoff).
If the EV's skateboard battery water seal is functioning perfectly then EV will perform well, perhaps better than a traditional design ICE/EV/PHEV platform.
If the EV's skateboard battery water seal has been compromised, then due to its relatively low placement, a lower than normal water levels may cause significant damages.
Water Damaged Tesla Model S Battery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_iz7gcXPUc
In particular, was the car driven through standing water higher than the bottom lip of the car? my guess is that it was.
I think the most likely explanation here is that the battery compartment was damaged in a way that allows water intrusion, and then they drove in extremely wet weather which splashed into the compartment.
I think in this case, it is just some algorithm that automatically adds links to text which may have related articles.
Then relevant quote is:
> I’ve been driving for 30 years and this is my most premium car to date and this is what it does when Edinburgh’s roads get puddles or a little wet!”
So he's been driving ICE-cars through puddles for 30 years, and because his Tesla cost more than his previous cars he expects it should be able to do at least as much. But obviously there are going to be fundamental differences between an electric car and a gasoline car when it comes to semi amphibious endeavors, and a Tesla Model S doesn't store the batteries in the ceiling.
Based on what I've heard about Edinburgh's potholes a puddle is more akin to a massive lake rather than a small puddle. In fact I heard last week there was an where an eight stories tall crustacean from the protozoic era was residing in the Edinburgh potholes and asking for tree-fiddy.
We've also had what can only really be described as "biblical" rain in the last week - according to the met office [0] it was the wettest 2 day period on record. The flooding was really something else [1] [2]. That doesn't mean that they're not lying, but I would hold judgement on Tesla in this case.
[0] https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/binaries/content/assets/metoffi...
[1] https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/17105792881923072...
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb0-QobUA0Q
My Yamaha(motorcycle, 12k usd) recently had an RMA due to potential water issues. Yamaha fixed the potential problem, and would have resolved any further issues from the root cause of water/corrosion.
This only concretes my lack of interest in Tesla.
When I brought it in they said "the car is still under warranty so we'll replace the engine for free. BTW, Joe had to spend an entire day with the pressure washer. Next time, don't overfill the oil."
"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
In the Tesla case I'm sure the flags are coming almost entirely from users who are simply tired of the repetitive noise and drama aorund this topic.