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Ask HN: Non-Traditional Users

5 points by dizzydes ↗ HN
We're building a jobs marketplace for construction workers.

One of the challenges is that they're used to doing everything through phone calls so they keep bouncing back to that (for now we're happy to take these calls to learn). There's also lower avg computer literacy compared to other professions and some language barriers.

So far, we've:

- Translated our frontend into five different languages

- Put in many tooltips to guide people through, some in multiple places

- Considered one initial tutorial call ("managed marketplace")

- Built in automated responses to our job alert chat bots in case they think its a human operator

Would love to hear war stories from people who overcame challenges like this. Reading recommendations also appreciated!

11 comments

[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 24.5 ms ] thread
h2odragon
How about employing actual people for them to talk to, as that's the interface they're comfortable with.

"We could help our users if only they would totally change their behavior" isn't a path to success.

Get some folks out into your target user's pockets for a couple weeks. You'll gain some understanding of why they need a low attention interface; they have other plates in the air which are far more urgent on a meat level, all the time.

Even when they're relaxed and not working, the imperatives of the workday leave that mark.

dizzydes
We are currently talking to them so we can learn and look for things to automate.

We're aiming to be an online marketplace, so the services we provide (eg skill verification) won't scale if we can't have them use the interface. This is a possibility, but if it's the case we need to learn it early. We're trying to minimise the leap rather than totally change their behaviour. We've started as a messaging jobs bot on apps they already use and are slowly linking more pages to them as we go.

Startup history is full of companies that aimed to change people's behaviour over time: Uber is the cliché example in a former call-centric industry. Alas, so are startup cemeteries.

h2odragon
There's a market there but its already cratered with the distrust left by previous efforts. "Pay us $100 per lead" for jobs 100 miles away, other fun stuff.

Suggestion: ask how many of you users actually would appreciate a website they can use with win7/IE or even older. Go into the offices and see what the IT they use is, aim for that.

dizzydes
Agree on the distrust, human construction agencies have the same reputation as LinkedIn recruiters. That's why were hoping an open unsiloed marketplace with a references and a clear taxonomy that piggybacks on national certifications might help.

On the Win7 point, 90% of our traffic is mobile but I'm sure the offices use v old OS.

dieselgate
Make sure it works well on Android given your traffic and intended user base
h2odragon
image the sales point: "Our app can export invoice data to your antiquated backoffice"
VoodooJuJu
This is what I like about construction and other physical, skin-in-the-game trades: no bullshit. Complete opposite of most white collar jobs. The starry-eyed entrepre-nerd is very often humbled and goes home with empty pockets & a bruised ego when he attempts to penetrate these no-bullshit domains. He just doesn't get it.
dizzydes
Have you worked in a physical trade?

As someone who has, I personally wouldn't go so far as to fetishise blue-collar over white collar. Both have BS - most agency recruiters in construction are really dishonest (and remain profitable) and construction companies generally take their time in paying their bills far beyond the agreement.

casual != candid

keiferski
This seems like a project where AI text to speech tools would be useful.

I would throw out all assumptions about how websites are “supposed to” look and just figure out how to best replicate a phone-first workflow on a website. Presumably with AI tools, as I mentioned above, but also making the site super simple, with large icon buttons, etc.

dieselgate
You mention "construction workers" but that's a massive group. Is this targeting large infra/Union construction, commercial or residential etc?

I'd recommend you post this to DIYchatroom forum, it's a sibling forum to ContractorTalk (which is explicitly licensed-contractor Only), but many contractors are active on both.

My opinion is this could be a better fit for larger projects (Commercial) whereas most residential crews are small in comparison - think you'd get a more relevant discussion from the mentioned sites than HN. How does this compete with Unions?

Edit: said it in another comment but biggest thing for me is works well on android. And fwiw I'm a licensed contractor

Deeznutzs
When you say "Translated our front-end into five different languages." Is one of those plain English minus overly technical jargon? Overly technical terms do not help the less educated to become more educated until they are put into terms they do understand. I once had a CNC trainee that had a hard time with understanding how Z offsets worked on the vertical mill, and I explained it to him "In terms of Wheat and Corn." You wanna mow your wheat (x) and corn (y) to varying heights (z).... so what do you do? He immediately had an epiphany, chuckled and says "you just set your mower deck higher (+) or lower (-), I get it now and feel like an idiot!"