Ask HN: What happened to hackerspaces?

140 points by pierat ↗ HN
I remember when hackerspaces were in every major city, and quite a few medium sized cities also had them.

Now, most are gone, for various reasons.

What gives?

125 comments

[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 209 ms ] thread
Not enough members, broken equipment, too expensive
I think the finances of hackerspaces were always very brittle and Covid killed a lot of them.

https://hackerdojo.org/

https://makernexus.org/

https://sudoroom.org/

https://noisebridge.net/

Saw this with a bunch of niche things here in LA. There was this cool welding non-professional welding space that closed down due to covid. I hope something replaces it soon
Noisebridge came pretty close to going under too. At one point the landlord was asking for an increase in rent to something like 20k/mo before backing down.
They did end up moving though.
The makerspace I am a member of(Freeside Atlanta) manages to survive by the skin of its teeth by moving to a new and bigger space right before the pandemic shutdown and seem to be growing ever since.
Hackerdojo isn't a Hackerspace in the early 2010's meaning of the word anymore. They converted to a more startup incubator kind of place (and so I stopped going).

From their website, looks like they're doing quite well!

(for those who remember a previous incarnation of the space, with my partner and some friends we painted the 2 Dinos mural)

I’ve been there. It’s very quiet and everyone stares daggers at you if you look the type to make noise.
(comment deleted)
Good to know that Noisebridge is still around.

Hacker Dojo, as mentioned elsewhere, pivoted to something sort of like WeWork. $150/month. Mostly people slaving away at laptops, pre-COVID.

Maker Nexus seems from their web site to be doing OK. Pre-COVID, they were mostly sewing and kids classes, but now they seem to have more heavy metal tools. $150/month.

Humanmade, in SF, has government support, and is more oriented to training for trades. They ended up with much of TechShop's equipment. $250/month.

There's also the woke shop, Double Union.

What killed TechShop was that the gym model doesn't work for maker spaces. Gyms work because people pay but don't show up that much. Maker spaces get people whose day job is to be there making stuff.

Hacker Dojo recently fired its executive director and has been running mostly rudderless in terms of the management of the social space for several months. They're been looking to hire a community manager.

Unfortunately Hacker Dojo daytime attendance nowadays is quite low, so they're not really attracting people as a WeWork space. I wonder how they're going to pick it back up.

Yes, cramming people tightly into a small room all day is a bad idea. COVID isn't gone, and winter is coming.
We live okay in the presence of many endemic diseases.
No. What killed tech shop is the owner of it took the money to fund an extravagant lifestyle, living out of hotels, causing the fees to be out of line with what was offered. It could have worked if the owner didn't want to live like a billionaire.
Any sources?
I was a member, and followed the bankruptcy. All I lost in the bankruptcy was about two weeks of paid membership. Mostly, their costs came from rent. They had some nice high-visibility locations. Those were expensive. They exaggerated revenue to borrow money to open more locations, like many tech startups.[1] The bankruptcy did show some high travel costs, but since they had 10 locations spread over the US, that's not unreasonable.

The gym-type business model of pay by the month and get all the tool time you can use, just did not work out.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2017/11/15/techsho...

(comment deleted)
The economics only really work if you're also a co-working space, and now everyone works at home ...
ASMBLY in Austin is doing well. Lots of machines/space/people.

https://asmbly.org

Ah cool. Although I already have about half of that equipment, including a compressor, are there any less consumption-oriented gatherings of tech and maker people near ATX?
I like what those guys are doing, but frankly its simply to far away at this point for me to justify the once or twice a year I might want to use a lathe/mill. Partially because I tend to have my own "hacker space" in my house given the last couple decades of acquiring tools.

But, what I think we need to do in Austin is figure out how to get the local school districts to open up the high school machine shops, electronics labs/etc on weekends/whatever. I've seen the insides of Anderson High, and more recently Vandegrift, and both of them have tooling that far exceeds what most hackerspaces can only dream about. They don't have much in the way of pictures of their lab space but there is one on this page https://www.viperbots.org/home of the cleanest lathe you will every see and in the background one if their vertical mills and another picture of a tormach 1100 MX (a ~$40k mill).Plus at least for 3 months out of the year the lockers/etc are basically vacant and there is a few thousand square feet of light industrial workspace along with electronics labs full of scopes, power supplies and soldering stations. Piles of 3d printers, and unlike libraries the noise of a big milling machine isn't going to be heard in the quiet spaces in the library.

So, there are natural hacker spaces all over town if one can figure out how to protect the tools from random idiots and convince the school districts that they can get more mentors/etc, and maybe even raise some revenue if people are willing to pay for access.

PS: In a state that tends to underfund their teachers its amazing how much money a FIRST robotics program can get from industry in the wealthy parts of town when the sponsorships are $5k-10k. Of course its peanuts compared with the football program in many cases. Ex that high schools stadium https://texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=1312

I wonder if it's that the people go who to these places tend to like to build for themselves and tinker rather than build with a customer in mind (nothing wrong with that), and similar people run the spaces in a similar way, so they're run more like hobbies than businesses.
From everything I've seen, the more you run your hacker/maker space like a business the more likely it is to fail.
Might be worth searching for:

- TechShop and it's fall - I remember one person arguing hackerspaces may be better run as a nonprofit model.

- The rise of small-scale maker capabilities within public institutions like libraries. I considered signing up for a maker space last year and it made more sense to pay for a second library that happened to have a good maker lab.

- The rise of cheaper or more accessible prototype manufacturing (e.g. pcbway , sendcutsend, etc.).

- The other threads trying to save spaces, like this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32245086 (2022)

Yeah, my local library has a pretty decent makerspace in its basement, at least if you're making smaller things. These are the machines that are currently there:

* Prusa 3D Printer

* Hic Top CR-10 3D Printer

* Ender-3 S1 Pro 3D Printer

* Brother ScanNCut

* Silhouette CAMEO

* Silhouette Vinyl Cutter

* EverSewn Sparrow X2 Embroidery Machine

* Brother PE900 Embroidery Machine

* Carvey CNC Desktop Fabricator

* Glowforge Laser Cutter

* Sawgrass Sublimation Printer

It also has a lot of audio recording equipment with soundbooths, and a bunch of lighting and photography/video equipment.

Do you live in the wealthiest city in America? I've been to 11 libraries and absolutely none of them have anything on that list.
Here in Finland the libraries often have that kind of stuff, in smaller places maybe a little less, but larger cities have nice amount of stuff to use and/or loan.
Marry or adopt me, would you? ;D Finish passport is good as a Singaporean one.

I have a Prusa Mk3S+ with MMU, head improvement, and Bear kit.

Also have maybe 40 rolls of filament from glow in the dark, UV reactive, and more or less every color and an Octoprint with cameras and a power shutoff.

The only problem is my electronics lab is 60 Hz equipment. ]:

America is a third-world country in multiple ways. It's just most Americans don't have passports and don't know how bad we have it.
I believe most eligible U.S. adults have a passport. High-50s-percent.
recent push for higher-security ID has translated into more non-travelling adults with Passport IMHO.. its intentional
I live in a suburb of Chicago. We do directly neighbor one of the wealthiest cities in the country, though, but our city isn't particularly wealthy (it's doing fine though, and steadily growing).

Part of the reason we bought a house here is because it was close to some nicer suburbs without being terribly expensive itself (our home was just reappraised and it was determined to still be under the average existing house sales price in the US of $410k, even though it went up like 40% since last time).

We can drive twenty minutes and go to the same nice stores and restaurants that people living there can, if we wanted to.

I'm aware our local library is an outlier. There are other libraries in the area, including in that wealthy neighboring city, that don't have anywhere near as much equipment.

This sounds like Fountaindale Library in Bolingbrook. I lived there myself for 2 years, it's a great up-and-coming town, and the library is truly spectacular.
Not the commenter but my library is similar. I live in a suburb of Indianapolis that is quite well off for the area, though very low cost of living in comparison to many metro areas across the country. We also have a city funded makerspace more aimed at trades that offers home improvement seminars, a woodshop, etc.
It's probably worth noting the libraries I've seen that have a nice makerlab (to where the the tools are maintained and they facilitate trainings) usually have at least a couple staff librarians that are fairly enthusiastic about making things and using the tools themselves too.

That's my limited anecdotal experience, noticing there's also been libraries that might've initially offered 3d printing then stopped (possibly due to abuse, maintenance burden, staff changes, etc.)

Sound like a dream. I'd love to see a picture of that basement.
Yeap. Might be better not to have the expense and expectations of a brick and mortar that get in the way of associations of like minds. Dinner gatherings once a month and larger fairs once a year would probably suffice.

If municipality governments had any common sense, they would find ways to manage the risks and benefits of opening fix-it and make community centers.

For the last six years or so, our local Makerspace has hosted a weekly electronics and technology meetup on Thursday evenings. The electronics lab is pretty quiet most of the week, though as an arts/crafts-focused space, the fiber arts and stained glass spaces are much busier. On Thursday evenings, though, there normally 5-15 people who show up and hack on hardware/software, show off projects, or just chat tech. electronicsnight.com.
[flagged]
I went to one in Birmingham a couple of times but it was boring and the people who used it were tedious and condescending. Not sure what I was expecting but it wasn't that.
denhac is alive and well! We had our 15th anniversary party earlier this month and recently crossed 350 members. We're entirely volunteer run with no paid employees.

I currently serve as vice-chair of the board. I joined right before COVID and my focus has been helping get policies and processes in place to continue to help us scale. We've seen pretty rapid growth post COVID and are seeing ~10 new members a month.

Happy to answer any questions (when I wake up).

Be sure to stop and say hi If you're ever in Denver, CO!

https://denhac.org/

They kind of came to be when the Bush financial meltdown happend. Unemployment was getting high in the late 00's. People were trying to develop new skills or build cottage industries. It feels like there is less of a hustle with all that now.

Plus makerspaces were just difficult to make viable and really you are probably better off spending that time on any other endeavor.

A group of us out here tried starting one in West Michigan and it sputtered along for a while. Financials and interest were never able to balance out. The Geek Group out here did a little "better" but the owners and volunteers there basically burned themselves out constantly. Then the founder got nailed for bitcoin crimes and that was the end.

I had a dream of running a Hackerspace, and no matter which way I crunched the numbers it just wasn't financially viable - not as a business.
agree - plenty of young people see the darksides of constant tech engagement, and do not have the happy-garage experience to draw on, post-Internet
Sector67 is still healthy! They have a smart, incredibly dedicated and frugal BDFL who got them through some lean times.

I think in general it only works if there is a strong community / third place thing going. I always saw that as their biggest offering--a way to get out of the house without drinking or spending money. The making / hacking thing is just something to enjoy together.

Like every other issue in American cities, poor land use means you can never afford to have anything except what was already there.

I feel like I read a story about running one in the Bay that was just about having to deal with crustpunks and people having sex in the machine rooms.

Although I think libraries have equipment like 3D printers these days.

The obstacle to living in a remote area is being in the radius of major medical and groceries.

I'm looking for a 3000+ sq ft single-story house and workshop on cheap land without natural hazards within 15-20 minutes of somewhere with a Trader Joe's.

Same question for LUGs.
LUGs core reason for existence — sharing Linux and systems administration knowledge — is no longer relevant. You can learn mostly everything you need to get to journeyman level experience online and in books. Once you want to achieve master level proficiency you join special interest groups and go to conferences.

The LUGs I have been to are mostly social groups running off the inertia of old members which were around back when LUGs were relevant, an inertia which is slowing down with the age of the members.

I served on the board for a local LUG and there is still some interest from the community but not like back in the day when they could pull 100s of people in a meeting and IBM or Redhat would buy free pizza for everyone in the early 2000s.

The distinction at between operating systems is in 2023 pretty negligible in practice. Most people work on some kind of UNIX on Windows/Mac/Linux. OS tinkering/distrohopping tends to be an anti-pattern, a waste of time/not task oriented in any way.
Linux has become a standardized tool that is pretty simple to use. Linux used to be cumbersome with a high barrier to enter, now it is common and simple to use. Some of Linux's incredible innovations have been replicated by competitors. There are now lots of classes about Linux. Windows feature have also become more competitive with Linux features. You don't need to dual boot a PC to use Linux. You don't need to freak out about the refresh rate of the monitor, or build a custom knoppix instance for a kiosk machine, with cramfs and unionfs manually compiled into the kernel. (windows didn't have an easy to install kiosk built into the OS) Instead of ext2, or ext3 (vs fat32) you can now use NTFS. The Linux kernel was way more stable compared to XP. Starting with Vista, when the graphics driver crashed, the OS just reloaded the driver instead of BSOD. The supported hardware for windows has also increased dramatically. (ARM processors, embedded, etc.)

At the same time that Windows was making inroads, Java, Apple, and Android have made significant inroads in their own ways.

Overall, linux has become more user friendly (reducing the learning curve); training has become common, and multiple companies have become more competitive with Linux. This has reduced the demand for less structured training of LUGs.

Real Estate. So many quirky things are viable when there's cheaper rent, cheap buying opportunities, or underutilized space. If I could buy space for $150/sq ft, I might have some extra cash, like the idea of investing in real estate, and like the idea of having a cool community hackerspace. If it's going to cost me $1,000/sq ft, I'm barely going to be able to afford the space I want to live in. If a group of us can rent at cheap prices we're saving money on our housing and paying for a shared second space doesn't cost that much.

Over the past 15 years or so, property prices have soared in so many cities. It really makes it hard to afford space for quirky things. There are certainly plenty of examples of ones that still exist and enough determination and you can still make things happen, but I think the rising cost of real estate is putting a damper on things like this.

(comment deleted)
Community spaces are always on the move. So I don't think it's rent so much as the core members not keeping up with the inevitable need to move on. One I used to attend now gets space from a University http://hackerspace-adelaide.org.au/ There are lots of community spaces if people can find and network with them. But it takes work and dedication. Money is nearly always a second.

The first hack group I fell in with (2600) met in a restaurant, and it worked and evolved into other groups including a hackerspace.

So now that commercial real estate is being underutilized due to work from home does that mean the hackerspaces and artist collectives will return due to cheap real estate prices?
A big lesson from running a hackerspace is that you can't apply logic like that to commercial real estate. They'll let it sit empty for ten years rather than reduce the price.
They're still around.

If you can't find the kind you're looking for, you can make one!

Aside from community (which is incredible important), Hackerspaces are a method of tool-sharing. In the last decade, many of the popular tools that used to live exclusively at a Hackerspace can be now be found in schools, libraries, and homes: 3D Printers, lasercutters, electronics toolkits, etc. And 3 years of pandemic isolation meant that people weren't able to show up anyway.

One of my favorite spaces (though distant from where I live) - Metrix Create:Space - shut down down in 2018 in part because people didn't have as much of a reason to show up [1]

[1] https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2018/08/tech-junkies-and-...

Metrix!!! I used to live across the street from them and would go there often. Capitol Hill in Seattle is outrageously expensive.
And the hacklabs? In Madrid (Spain), now there is one alive.
At my university, they already had the hackerspace locked down under all sorts of training sessions that needed to be scheduled and attended to be allowed access, then when covid came around they started by canceling all trainings, then eventually shut the space down entirely citing covid.

Now that things have reopened they simply never brought it back.

Maybe you'll get as many answers as there are hackers here but from my own perspective it seems it went the same way as all other communities. Internal strife, odd personalities, personal differences tore them apart slowly.

It's not all bad. In my city it seems the hacker spaces organized by individuals were replaced by maker spaces funded and organized by the city. At least two that I know of, that are now basically free co-working spaces with 3D printers, meeting rooms, free wifi and such.

One is run by the agency that ran the ccTLD back in the early 2000s, called Goto10 in Malmö and Stockholm. Very nice space to work at.

The other is run by the city of Malmö called Stapeln and is in a basement.

Besides those I know of at least two hacker spaces run by individuals that were still going last I checked.

The pandemic hit them pretty hard of course.

City funded(subsidized?) maker spaces is such a great idea
It can get messy, especially because the very thing the city can offer (real estate) ends up being a political pawn. With no provision in the city’s charter to protect it, anything the city provides is going to be quick to the chopping block.

The better way for a city to help is let the local library system manage the relationship or itself be the steward of the space.

This is what my municipality does. There's a maker space run out of the main library with 3d printers, CNCs, laser cutters etc. Just need a library card and to pay some usage fees for materials to access it.
I honestly think a library is the best place for a general public makerspace for 90% of cases. That last 10% encompasses famous ones in specific cities like Noisebridge in SF or c-base in Berlin (all of which can only exist in that city’s culture scene) and also smaller, niche spaces such as Curious Forge, DIY or die (sadly defunct), etc.

My local library system offers a limited “makerspace” program[0] that does some of this stuff within the library, but I think something that should be more integrated is their Library of Things[1] program which allows patrons to take home all sorts of tools and equipment that are just not used very often.

I think more library systems should be granted the freedom and funding by their governing bodies to create a makerspace.

Footnote: The other option I didn’t address was to have schools/universities maintain them, but those are always reserved for student and faculty.

[0]: https://www.saclibrary.org/Education/Tech-Creation/Makerspac...

[1]: https://www.saclibrary.org/Books-Media/Specialty-Checkouts/L...

I disagree, I’ve never found a library hackerspace that I liked. I think the problem is in liability. A real hackerspace has insane liability issues, and city govs are about the most risk averse groups there is.

Unfortunately I think hackerspace on gov property are doomed to never be cool.

Does the young person making stuff to sell on Etsy care about how cool the place is? I guess it depends on if you're really looking for a social club.
I don’t disagree with the assessment that hackerspaces on government property will never be cool, mainly because I think we are beyond the days where being “cool” is a given. There is a distinction I need to make first, however:

The label of hackerspace should really be earned and the spaces that fall into that 10% group demonstrate specific ethos, robust community engagement, and as a result can operate independently.

A makerspace is just a place where you make stuff in and can have or gain some level of access to tools and equipment. It is certainly not as cool as a hackerspace, but its very presence is the prototype for one.

I'm simplifying. Goto10 is ran by Internetstiftelsen which was a state run agency back when they were managing the .se ccTLD. I haven't really kept track of what's going on with them. Knowing Sweden it wouldn't surprise me if it's some sort of hybrid between privatized and state run.

Stapeln was organized by the city.

But all hacker spaces here can get grants from the government.

When I was involved with one, now defunct, we received teaching grants from the state. Anyone who holds workshops or educational gatherings can apply for these grants.

Many libraries have them, I'm a huge fan of bringing this service into our libraries
Ballarat Hackerspace member checking in here.

Hackerspaces require ongoing work and support. They aren't great businesses, but are great community spaces. To that end, you need an ongoing commitment of people to provide their time, resources, and effort.

We are extremely lucky in Ballarat that we have such a group of committed members, as well as very generous sponsorship. We've paid that back through ongoing community involvement and releasing many free resources, but we are lucky to be in that position.

Another member checking in.

Australia in general seems to have decent Hackerspaces in all the major cities, sometimes multiple, as well as good growing support from the Library network with their own makerspaces (including regular workshops for 3D printing etc).

Helped start a space long ago. It struggled to stay afloat and eventually was subsumed by the local uni. Now, my dream of a modern hs is limited by lack of funds and..space.