Ask HN: How to manage autistic developer?

34 points by throwawayxxnd ↗ HN
I moved to a new team and after a few months, this coworker that reports to me can't stop giving me trouble. It usually of the communication kind but there are other issues not worth discussing here. We all work remotely.

The point is that, by asking a few people that are close to him, I discovered he has been diagnosed as autistic. These people tell me HR knows it but everyone is afraid of getting sued or something so it's a don't ask don't tell situation. People simply ignored him.

I will be honest, he drives me crazy on a daily basis. But I want to adapt and accommodate his disability to the best that I can. It's not a situation that I ever experienced as a manager but I think I can make it a useful learning experience that works for both sides, hopefully.

Have you been in this situation? Do you have any advice for making his and my life easier?

63 comments

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What trouble? If you don't give any details no one can give you advice.

    These people tell me HR knows it but everyone is afraid of getting sued or something so it's a don't ask don't tell situation. People simply ignored him.
This doesn’t require soft skills to logic out that there is reasonable trouble.

Coworkers, with a preexisting work history with this employee, know that HR is afraid of getting sued.

Why would an HR department be afraid of being sued by an employee?

The most likely explanation is that they want to fire them for performance and are trying to limit the likelihood of a lawsuit.

Why would a coworker be able to speak to HR’s internal assessment of an employee’s ability to be fired?

The most likely explanation is that they’ve gone to HR, or a manager, with problems, and the manager has asked HR if they could fire the employee for cause before.

“People simply ignored him” is more ambiguous, but in the context above, I take it to mean - other coworkers want him fired, but given HR’s inaction, they are taking their own action by ignoring the coworker and working around them rather than trying to include them.

Okay so, I'm autistic. As another person pointed out, the proportion of autistic people here is probably higher than in the average population. And the thing about us is we can't read between the lines. We take what people say at face value. All of what you're saying is plausible, but if it's the case then OP should have explicitly said any of that.
If you're posting on the YC and not on the tism spectrum, something is up.

Also, perhaps you should understand their PoV, it is likely they have deeply thought something through and perhaps they find it best or understand that they simply do not need to communicate with you.

If this person has an autism diagnosis then the condition may be strong. When people say "spectrum" they often mean those who don't have a diagnosis. Without more details it's hard to say anything about this situation.
Why would they consider themselves to be on the spectrum then? I mean technically the whole thing could be a spectrum of not austic to autistic. But it seems odd to have the spectrum not end at either point, the diagnosis or the one capturing all people.
This is blatantly wrong. A person who is "in the spectrum" is a person who is autistic, regardless of whether they had a formal diagnosis or not. They're just different ways of saying the same thing.
"On the spectrum" is both a soft term of art and very often a euphemism for either never seeking professional diagnosis or not being able to convince professionals that you warrant a diagnosis.

The difference between the population of those who have received a diagnosis and those who are on the spectrum is night and day, and it's often the line which separates whether you'll have any reasonable chance at life. The OP suspects his coworker has received such a diagnosis.

So when I hear OP say that his coworker may have a diagnosis, that absolutely changes the picture in my head. It's up to you to decide whether professional medical diagnosis is a signal to you.

What's the actual problem behavior or performance issue specifically? I find it hard to believe that there is some law that says you have to keep employing a person who is incompetent at there job just because they have a disability.

If you fire him because he is autistic, then he can sue you successfully. If you can point to a specific problem with his performance related to communication or anything else, then I don't think he will be able to make a case if you fire him.

I'm not a lawyer but that just seems logical.

I would assume that if you write or say anything about the autism at work, then you are looking at a discrimination lawsuit. If you make an official record of unacceptable behavior or performance without referencing it, then you shouldn't have a problem.

This sounds like a deeply nuanced situation that probably cannot be addressed through a short HN post. Write a post that’s ten times longer than this and instead of posting it here, bring those thoughts and concerns to your manager and HR and work through it together to build a course of action you all feel is productive to try.

If the company, as represented by HR, is disinterested in trying to help improve conditions for all, then you probably can either tolerate it or leave. This isn’t really a problem with an individual that the individual needs to fix. It’s a Human Resources issue that the company needs to work out.

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Autistic people want to do a good job just as much as anyone wants to do a good job. If you spoke with them frankly about whatever these "issues" are I'm sure you could come to common agreement. I'm relatively sure this person doesn't want to give you trouble. But you may have to meet them halfway.
You can set reasonable boundaries w/r/t when and how you communicate with them. Without knowing details about specifically what you're dealing with:

- Team members who need to communicate too frequently can have dedicated time scheduled for them when it's convenient for you.

- You're allowed to tell them that you're busy, or to not respond to them until it's convenient.

- With folks who have trouble making themselves understood, I like socratic method type questions to get them to answer their own questions, or to get on the same page.

As a manager, you can be helping them to set goals, and listen to what they think they say they need to meet them. You can work with HR on any additional assistance they need.

While folks with autism spectrum disorders sometimes need additional support, your role as their manager doesn't need to change dramatically to address that specifically. You will also encounter people who either don't have a diagnosis, or you won't know have a diagnosis, and you will need to address their needs whether or not you know about it.

You haven't said enough for anyone to offer real help.

I mean you've got to accept that he won't be aware of, let alone considerate of, other people's feelings. Social rules will be a challenge for him. He won't respect you simply because you're a manager. You have to earn his respect. He will be very logical and reasonable with what he does understand. His ability to remain on task is going to be limited unless he's fired up. But if he gets there, his productivity may shock you.

He will likely overestimate how much he understands. But when he actually gets things, he really will get them.

This is all vague generalities.

    He won't respect you simply because you're a manager. You have to earn his respect.
This is good practice even for non-autistic employees, but… it’s reasonable to expect that an autistic person knows that there is a hierarchy to their job. Depends on what you mean by “respect” here of course, but mild autism that still allows you to work in a professional setting is not a blanket excuse for being disrespectful to coworkers or managers.
There's a whole lot of things between not having respect (not abiding to authority) and being disrespectful (hurtful, offensive, etc).
Denis Leary wrote a song about that guy.
> he won't be aware of, let alone considerate of, other people's feelings

Many autistics are very much considerate of other people's feelings - once they're made aware of them. Most that I know are in fact much more considerate than NTs.

That said, it's still possible that they will come across hurtful or disrespectful even when they're making an effort to accomodate such feelings - simply because they will be more logical and less emotional in their speech and general demeanor.

It helps if the communication and effort goes both ways - the autistic person trying to accommodate the feelings of others, and others trying to understand the (sometimes brutal) logic of the autistic.

It might help to be more specific. Can you give an example of the communication problems?

Depending on the details, it might be helpful to ask him if he can think of any changes that could be made to make your working relationship more effective.

There's probably more than a typical share of devs that are on the spectrum to various degrees.

What actually is the issue you're facing? Can you be specific?

If you can find a way to communicate effectively with this person, you might be able to turn this situation into a positive. The folks on the spectrum I've worked have typically had insights and working strengths that neurotypical people didn't, such as an extremely detailed and in depth view of systems to a degree that many of their peers considered obsessive.

Yes, communicating with them takes extra empathy and sometimes patience, maybe some work environment reasonable accommodations. Maybe there are some communication styles, or simply individuals, they respond better to. It takes training, and not gonna lie, a lot of heart.

But nobody can give any useful advice (or even anecdotes) if you don't explain what's going on. "They are autistic." OK, and? What's the issue you're facing with them? What have you tried so far?

You need to give more info about what the actual problems are. Without knowing that, people can only offer advice based on stereotypes, which are often innaccurate.
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I got the impression the OP was looking for tips and anecdotes from other people who've managed autistic people.

I suspect that giving too many details may make it obvious who they are. Perhaps the co-worker reads Hacker News?

Good point about the co-worker reading HN.

Honestly, if the poster is serious about being a professional manager and wants good advice on this, they should reach out to a professional organization that provides resources e.g.:

https://www.neurodiversityhub.org/resources-for-employers

Using anecdotes from HN as a guide doesn’t seem like a great approach.

In a calm yet direct manner, can you tell him what he's doing that bothers you? Or what you'd prefer he do?

(I'm quite aspie, and these are generally the questions I wish people would answer for me.)

At the risk of "projecting" from my own life experience, you're possibly keeping it all bottled up inside, giving him zero opportunity to address your concerns, let alone be aware of them.

Well, what's the problem?

Is it a behavioral issue? You may find yourself needing to "explain common sense," and set expectations accordingly. (Likewise, if the problem is behavior during meetings, you might need to reflect on if your meetings are useful, or just "gatherings of people so someone feels important.")

Is it a performance issue? You can only do so much with those, so it's best to do whatever you'd do with a person who has a performance problem. (Usually some form of training, set clear expectations, re-assignment to a different task, or PIP.)

Are they annoying, requires handholding, or just need a lot of attention? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38258003 has good strategies. What I've done with people who want/need a lot of attention is to set regular meetings, and then be selective about handling interruptions.

That being said, IMO, it's best to discuss these issues with HR and your higher-up. Decide what your boundaries are, and what the company's boundaries and expectations are.

Some additional points I should have put in when I made the post yesterday:

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Autism isn't an excuse for violating personal boundaries.

A few years ago I watched a documentary on autism and one of the autistic people was going through other co-workers desks.

If your autistic team member is repeatedly violating personal boundaries, you need to treat them as you would any other person: Point out the infraction and then terminate them if they cannot fix the behavior.

A disability like autism doesn't grant someone the permission to partake in antisocial behavior.

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Is your role correctly identified as manager? Or are you really an architect, project lead, or a principal engineer? Some companies are under the illusion that everyone wants to be a "Manager," and incorrectly label every leadership role as a manager.

(Some of the clues for situations like this is that you would only have one to three direct reports, and that you will spend a lot of time hands-on in the code or other engineering activities.)

The critical difference in a situation like this is that managers handle people problems, leads delegate their people problems back to their manager.

If your role is mislabeled as manager, then you really should make your autistic co-worker your boss's problem. If that doesn't work, you should get reassigned or find a job elsewhere.

Props to you for wanting to learn and putting the question out there. No easy way out here, unfortunately.

I'm a father of two severely autistic boys. Check out my blog post on what I wish people knew about autism: https://tiberriver256.github.io/autism/as-a-father-what-i-wi...

TL;DR

Every autistic person is unique and different. Just like every other person you meet.

I highly recommend you:

- Take the time to get to know them

- Communicate your expectations clearly "I expected you to communicate in x fashion, because of y. You recently communicated in z way. That didn't work for me because of abc"

- Ask them what their preferred methods of communication are and have them explain why

- See if you can come together to find a communication style that works for the both of you.

The most rewarding aspect of having a direct report is seeing them grow. The most beneficial part of having multiple direct reports is the growth potential it gives you in learning from a diverse set of humans.

Don't miss the opportunity here. Good luck!

Depends on the person. Trust is a two way street. Why should they trust anything you say?

From your post, you've given nothing to support their perspective, which make me think you're low in empathy.

There was an interesting post on HN some weeks ago about autism and authority you could probably dig up.

Document. Clearly state your goals for them, and have them written down in a 1:1 document.

Communication style and tone are important, and autistic people do not get a pass on trying to understand them, even if you may want to give them more grace when they slip up.

With that in mind, a goal should be something like “coworkers report improvement in communication style and tone.” It should be something that other people assess, not a checklist of things for the employee to self-report progress towards. (You never want to give people who don’t correctly see how they’re perceived by others the option of grading themselves. First, their lack of self-awareness means that they aren’t the best judge of improvement, and second, treating things a a checklist to complete will give the impression that you wanted some line items addressed, rather than a holistic improvement in a vague problem area.)

When you document, pay special attention to times when their misunderstanding caused rework. Use those as examples to help them improve. It can be tough for autistic people to take a vague problem and figure out a plan to tackle it, so the more specific examples of problem, outcome, and desired change you can make for them, the clearer it will be what is expected of them. It is better for you and for them - they have a better chance to improve, and you have documented instances of business impact if a turnaround doesn’t happen and you need HR to sign off on moving on.

For accommodation - they have not told you that they have a disability, you’ve heard it secondhand. It’s their choice to make you aware of their autism, and also their responsibility to request accommodations since they have not told you yet. However, you can make informal accommodations, but I would treat it the same way you accommodate employees’ individual personalities and strengths/weaknesses. They, like everyone else, should not be below a certain standard of behavior, but within that standard there will be differences in what each individual needs. You employee sounds like they need direct coaching and clear examples of what is or is not working. Try to give them tasks with high clarity and limited communication requirements, if you can. However, if you find they need more clarity than a reasonable person would expect, again I would have a goal of “the PM reports a decrease in the amount of back-and-forth on tickets you pick up, without a drop in velocity” or something similar. If they find they need more formal accommodations than that, well, now is the time for them to tell you about their autism diagnosis.

Best of luck! This is a challenging managerial task.

The choice of phrasing in your post highlight a considerable growth opportunity, for yourself, in working toward having stronger emotional intelligence.

It is Movember. Maybe use it as an excuse to open up in a conversation with your colleague on men's mental health issues and how stigmas around neurodivergence are unfair? Maybe you can grow mustaches together and raise awareness for a good cause. I'm saying that it sounds like your first step here is to have some empathy and try connecting on a personal level.

A developer with autism may turn out to be an astounding asset. If you are managing this person, then it is up to you to find what motivates and produces the best work from them.

Welcome to management.

HTH

Have a chill chat with him to figure out how he likes to communicate and work. Make sure he knows exactly what’s expected in his job – clear and simple works best. Touch base with HR; they might have some useful tips. Maybe tweak how you talk to him, like being more straightforward or writing things down. Regular, straightforward feedback's good too. If it's still tough, maybe find an expert for advice. Try to learn a bit about autism, as it’ll give you some insight into his actions.
When I was a new manager I used to try to help people, it rarely works. If they really are a PITA they should be told to fix their behavior and if it doesn't get better you can fire them without remorse.
Why complicate things? Just fire him.
Why complicate things? Just fire the guy in a wheelchair instead of building ramps. Just fire the pregnant women instead of giving maternity leave. Fire all the black employees so you don't have trouble with racism.
Just fire all the employees and you can keep all the revenue for yourself!
Props to you for deciding to accommodate rather than take the fire and forget method of solving problems like some commenters have callously suggested.

For a start google "working with aspies" or "working with mild autism adults". It'll give you a list of suggestions and expectation setting.

When you're ready, get into a meeting with him. Present the problems and how that's bothering you, get him to see your side or the side of the offended parties. Then suggest changes to his communication style, and set a goal for him.

Best of luck!

Does this post rub anyone else the wrong way? Autistic people are people, how best to manage them is going to differ on the individual person. Every person has unique strengths and flaws, there is no one size fits all approach that is going to work. To treat every autistic person the same is dehumanizing and obviously not going to be effective.

Like, could you imagine if instead of autism this post was say about woman - if someone said they had a female report giving them trouble, with no specifics, and then asked for advice on how to manage women in general - i think people would think that is rediculous.

Avoid verbal communication. Use email always. This gives them time to regulate their response and something to look back and be embarassed about when they are in better shape mentally.

If you have to communicate verbally, any topic can become contentious. When that happens, say something positive and revisit it later.

When a toddler hits you the best way to react is vocal and exaggerated hurt. Same principle. They will have extraordinary empathy if they see it that way.

Ask them how they are doing often and offer to help. Be on their team.

Praise often.