Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
I've been looking for work the past few months. I've never been great at the people-networking side of the software engineering business but know enough people to get some good referrals from Staff Engineer / Director level former coworkers. Despite meeting all the requirements, and being referred by a current employee...I'm just getting simple rejection emails. Previously I thought of referrals as a great signal that someone was good candidate and was worth at least a phone call. Is that no longer the case?
51 comments
[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 129 ms ] threadRight now the job market for more junior people looks brutal -- too many people with little experience and the same "skills" mix chasing a reduced number of jobs. If you are still early in your career you will find job hunting tough right now regardless of contacts and referrals.
So be positive, be humble, be sharp, and be willing.
Also, numbers game. 200 applications -> 63 interviews -> 12 callbacks -> 4 complete interview process -> 2 offers.
I’d suggest hitting up some tech recruiters and downgrading your past job titles. As far as your job search is concerned, you weren’t a “lead architect” using “state-of-the-art tech”, you were a Staff DevOps Engineer with experience in <insert AWS buzzwords here>. Etc etc.
When we are hiring.
There is the rub, there are a number of companies that are either actively laying off, or just letting attrition nibble down their numbers without having to announce layoffs.
When you say it like that it sounds mean, but it's a pretty civilized way to handle downsizing if you ask me.
It is. Some companies will also offer the old timers early retirement packages. There are companies like this out there still, they just don't make headlines by being civil.
I won't say they're worthless, but don't feel bad that you are getting the response that you are. Nearly every place I've been (and lots of places that friends are at) do an abysmal job of following up on referrals and taking them seriously.
That said, you might want to ask a trusted friend to look at your online presence (LinkedIn, GitHub) and offer some critical feedback. It may simply be the case that—despite being well qualified—you don't look that way to recruiters following up on what amounts to a ticket in a queue.
I'm a recruiting coordinator or a hiring manager, there's nothing that signals to me that this is a good lead. I assume you're just doing this as a courtesy. I might take a cursory glance, but if the resume doesn't look particularly exciting, onto the pile it goes.
The "how" part matters too. If you're referring a person who you know is amazing at their job, say so, and be specific. "I spent five years working with them at Foobar Industries and they are easily in the top 1% of all engineers at that company" is likely to get attention. "I know this person and I think they may be a fit" isn't.
Of course, depends on how your pipeline looks like. But most tech job reqs get a lot of applications and passive leads.
When one FAANG was very young, I knew a non-computers researcher who'd heard of the company and wanted to work there. But I figured that the company was still at the stage that they thought they only needed computer people and a few business people. (So I'd expect the non-computer researcher's resume, submitted cold, to be shredded by HR after a 1-second glance.)
So I asked a kindly and famously well-connected professor whether they had a contact there. Something like, so the researcher could explain what value they could bring that the company might not yet realize it needed.
Turns out, the professor had a strong connection to one of the top Poobahs at the company, and arranged an introduction for the researcher.
But later, when I wanted to work at that same company myself, and the company asked for a list of people I knew at the company, there were some, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that. Those contacts didn't have that much familiarity with my work, it felt more like an old-boys network or nepotism rather than a justifiable use of connections, and my software engineering resume should've been strong enough to get it in front of someone who could guess that I'd bring useful things.
Going back to the people who cold-contact strangers on LinkedIn for a referral: I'm not sure that's positive signal. It shows some effort, but it could also be seen as trying to game the system, or to abuse an employee's potential conflict of interest when referral bonuses are involved. Surely there are more unambiguously positive signals to be found in that stack of 200 resumes?
Remember the Captain America flagpole scene?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGAWgItUboE&t=1m55s
Do you really want to give superpowers to someone who does a "clever" thing, not concerned with collateral damage, and then casually walks away from the problem they created?
Social media-based "networking" in the industry has limited utility. I was 1-2nd degree on LI from most of Silicon Valley but with 100's of people I never talk to.
You're barking up the wrong trees combining outbound effort that has much less value, especially if it's untargeted or unfocused. In general, it's better to market yourself and let the hiring managers and headhunters find you. Although, it's entirely possible to replace the role of the headhunters if you market and convey useful business value you present to prospective employers: a cover letter exists to sell a resume to sell a phone call and so on.
If you're trying to network for work, I would check out hot and interesting tech meetups.
Remember, it's sales and dating, and therefore, a numbers and interest game.
1. Small company 2. He's senior and has a strong rep
In my view, the best a referral can do for you is to get eyes on your application and potentially bump it up in the stack. Unless you really know the specific hiring manager well, that seems like the best that's going to happen.
The actual process was something like this
1. LinkedIn message to former coworker and short conversation about what role I was looking for.
2. Meeting with hiring manager and a peer of his who I had also worked with (different than the guy I initially reached out to)
3. Long wait while hiring manager got the job description officially approved and posted.
4. Fill out application via referral program webpage so the guy I contacted first got the referral bonus
5. HR screen/interview and salary negotiation.
6. Job offer
7. Start new job
There were 4 former coworkers on the team I was hired into and we had all been part of an amazing team at a past company so take that as you will.
Luxury.
...and I got rejected by HR, because I didn't have 8 years of working experience at 23.
Still the funniest job hunting story I have.
Good luck.