So? What is preventing the company from just using it anyway and paying a fine later? The culture of these growthmaxxing companies pretty much ensures a philosophy of "don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness".
I didn't see the setting in my Dropbox account. Maybe because I have "Early access" disabled? Either way, not a fan of an opt-in setting that shares your data when it's supposed to just be a place to store files.
> Get access to products and features that Dropbox is still testing and evaluating, and give feedback to help our product teams build the best final product.
Just turned it off in my account, appreciate the heads up/post. I can't stand when companies turn this type of thing "on" by default. Apple pulled the same thing with advertising settings a few iOS versions back.
Right? I "understand" it but I don't understand it. It just ends up being gross and shady feeling and giving me a negative impression of the company that did it. I use dropbox, pay for the upgraded storage, and have for years. I love it. But they added some AI and decided I automatically wanted it. Makes me question whether I want to continue to be loyal to them.
It was back in 2018 or 2019, I believe. I THINK it was maybe iOS 15? Here is an old Verge article I found that you can check your settings: https://www.theverge.com/22309965/block-ad-iphone-data-how-t... - It was turning off "Personalized Ads" in your settings. I believe today in iOS 17 it lives in `Settings > Privacy > Apple Advertising`
Dropbox has form. The reason I shut my account is they used the root permission you give when you install the package to give back accessibility access permissions to their app after I had turned them off. They then claimed (in a very mealy mouthed reply) that this had been done because people turned these permissions off by accident and so they were trying to be helpful. Here's that thread for people who want the context https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12464730
I stopped paying a long time ago before actually deleting my account today. So maybe the setting was implicitly turned on for non-paying customers. Wouldn't surprise me.
My company is in the US. I just checked and found that we have the setting in our admin console and it was on by default. We do have a paid business account.
> Your files within Dropbox are sent to a third-party AI only when you chose to interact with AI powered features. For example, when you ask a question about a file.
yeah, some of these posts take a weird tact on privacy. the switch prevents access to files via openai's API, but for that to be relevant you need to engage the Dropbox AI.
really, the trouble is Dropbox is outsourcing your private files to a third party and masking that via a optin (in the US) toggle.
I don't think users should have to worry that their service negotiated a invasive privacy process with a third party and they aren't being forthright about how it leaves the premise.
I can't believe this is true, they would expose themselves to huge lawsuits doing that. I store sensitive medical files there. What if someone stored their baby's bathing videos and those got leaked?
bad UI and company design...one should NEVER EVER cause any user of any service to take extra actions to respect their rights and data. It should be the reverse...if you want to use AI or have AI use your data then you need to take extra steps...
The transfer speed is slower than using Bluetooth. Free users would have dumped the tool immediately. What DB did was throttle the speed only after I had uploaded a set of files, and then bug me to upgrade to paid.
Amazon has no competitive consumer product to dropbox, and he rightfully might want to separate his work and personal data. Can't really expect one to use S3 as a dropbox replacement.
perhaps you should be a little shocked to hear if they are using s3(they are not). s3 is awesome but it's not supposed to be used absolutely everywhere.
Yes and as the CTO it is better to understand what products make sense for Amazon customers and implement those, instead of what he wants to use personally.
> Use artificial intelligence (AI) from third-party partners so you can work faster in Dropbox. We only use technology partners we have vetted. Your data is never used to train their internal models, and is deleted from third-party servers within 30 days.
Ours (for a US business account) was on by default. The text for the setting is:
> Let team members use artificial intelligence (AI) so they can work faster in Dropbox. We only use technology partners we have vetted. Your organization’s data is never used to train their internal models, and is deleted from third-party servers within 30 days.
Dropbox claims that they "won’t let our third-party partners train their models on our user data without consent". The page further claims that the participation option is on by default for teams "participating in the Dropbox AI alpha", but I don't think we signed up for any such thing and the option was still on for us. I checked the settings and we are not currently enrolled. I have zero confidence that "consent" to use our data for model training won't also default to opt-in.
The page further states that Dropbox currently has one AI partner -- OpenAI.
I see no such setting, for my free personal account which is currently overfull and not syncing due to having previously had some temporary promotional space above my current limit. Is this setting not present for everyone? If relevant, I am currently in Germany, although my account was created in either the US or Canada (I forget which).
Oddly enough, I am in the UK - and I do have it, but it was already turned off when I went there. I wonder if things have changed, or there are some canary releases of the box... or am I just completely unaware my account isn't considered a UK-based account?
I'm in the U.S. and don't see it on my free account either. I also don't have early access features turned on, so I wonder if it could be related to that. [Or, as is mentioned in some other comments, maybe free accounts don't have the option because they can't access AI powered features.]
> "Your files within Dropbox are sent to a third-party AI only when you chose to interact with AI powered features. For example, when you ask a question about a file. "
> "If you or your team is participating in the Dropbox AI alpha, the Third-party AI toggle in your account settings is turned On by default. Only the content relevant to an explicit request or command is sent to our third-party AI partners to generate an answer, summary, or transcript."
Basically, its saying "if you use AI tools, we'll send your data to a 3p, but if you don't, we're not".
The issue really is if they turned on a feature in the future "ask a question about this document" and you didn't know it meant that the document was sent over to OpenAI.
> "If you or your team is participating in the Dropbox AI alpha, the Third-party AI toggle in your account settings is turned On by default. Only the content relevant to an explicit request or command is sent to our third-party AI partners to generate an answer, summary, or transcript."
It turns itself back on???
So, what's the point of the toggle then?
We need blanket minimum privacy protections at a national level, and they should treat internal repurposing of data the same as third party sharing.
Since all major players in our industry have shown they can’t be trusted to curate large collections of sensitive data, inclusion in such internal datasets should be opt in as well.
Dropbox is a poster child for “this should be E2E encrypted”, so, yes, I’m arguing they should get your explicit opt-in before they are allowed to store unencrypted data or escrow keys on their end, and that the opt-in shouldn’t be required to use their services.
At least basic encryption. Remember one day, Dropbox forgot in production to check passwords of users. So you only had to enter email to access the Dropbox of the user (an open "log as" feature).
What do you mean by "basic encryption". Either dropbox could access our files or it couldn't without authentication from us. If it couldn't how would search or indexing work.
I've used Dropbox for 13 years and I have never noticed that they have a cloud search feature, nor have I ever needed that. It syncs to my machines where I have my local search working in the exact same manner as for non-Dropbox data - why does Dropbox need a special search, one where they would search my unencrypted data?
It's enough of other companies making money on our data. That's why I started Skiff (end-to-end encrypted email/docs/drive/calendar)! It's harder to build products E2EE but you get long-term trust from users.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this seems like a poorly messaged setting and an overreaction by users on X. Sounds like they will use a commercial AI when you use Dropbox AI to ask about a document.
In that case your organization account should make the decision on enablinng this capability, Dropbox should not have carte blanche to scan your content ahead of time.
the cost of indexing with an AI would be absurd. it's more likely a one off Clippy type service where it's only sending it to openAI when the user requests.
still should be optin universally, but it's unlikely they're wasting compute scanning before a user even wants the service.
I would like to check it out but I'm physically unable to select any product from the product drop down list...
Not the most confidence inspiring thing I've seen.
Logged into Dropbox to see (EU based). Setting wasn't there. Clicking through to the quoted tweet, they also report further on in their thread: I created the account when I was in the US, but now in the EU. (https://twitter.com/Werner/status/1734898806708166709)
In the "What's new" part within the Dropbox environment, I did find a note dated October 10, 2023:
Quickly find the content you need with Dropbox AI
Dropbox AI for search helps you get the information you need without the hassle of manually searching through Dropbox. Ask a question about your Dropbox content and get a response within seconds. You can also find the files you need with everyday language instead of searching by keywords, and search results now come with a brief summary of each file.
Then, once you’ve opened individual files, Dropbox AI for file previews now lets you save time and effort by summarizing your content, from long documents to lengthy videos, into a clear and concise explanation with the click of a button.
Dropbox AI is currently in alpha and available in the US in EN only for Dropbox Pro, Standard, Advanced, Essentials, Business, and Business Plus. Some features may be available soon for eligible non-US customers to test.
> Logged into Dropbox to see (EU based). Setting wasn't there.
FWIW, just checked mine (EU-based "pro" account), and the setting is there but was OFF. i have never specifically engaged any features regarding AI in dropbox.
i do recall seeing a popup in the web interface sometime in the past month about having AI summarize file content and i closed the popup without tapping anything which remotely appeared to be a consent button.
Others in the EU are reporting it's off by default for them as well. So it's probably configured deliberately as opt-out in the US and opt-in in Europe.
I would call that a win for European privacy regulation.
Entering "dinosaurs" in the search box and sorting by date is much faster, simpler, and more reliable than typing in all those words to an AI. That problem has already been solved decades ago.
yes, if you can sort by atime and need something as trivial as above.
and if have 3 dinosaur related documents in your files. and if you dont mind spending a few minutes scrolling through search and opening docs 1 by 1, waiting for each to download to your phone rather than typing 5 more words.
failure of imagination.
Hi dropbox, show me the costco receipt for the inflatable mattress i bought a few months ago.
Hi dropbox, show me the widget specs from ACME for 2025.
> It took a while, but the arc of history is starting to bend in favour of that guy who said 'just use rsync' on Drobox's Show HN post in 2007.
It be interesting to see a breakdown on "time spent" between the people who went with Dropbox and started syncing stuff right away VS the people who first setup their own infrastructure to do the same thing.
I'd still assume that the bulk of Dropbox users are the kind who wouldn't want to figure out `rsync`.
For better or worse, even enough grad students at MIT (which used to be one of the more computers-clueful places) used Dropbox so heavily that they included the Dropbox logo on the grad class ring:
The class rings have considerable symbolism, and are very important to some. I've heard that the rings can also be real icebreakers at some startup events (between people with MIT connections):
> I'd still assume that the bulk of Dropbox users are the kind who wouldn't want to figure out `rsync`.
That's because OS's don't bother to support rsync with good UX. That's what the old "My Briefcase" feature in Windows 9x was all about. It even had special-case support for difference merging (or "reconciliation") which rsync alone doesn't quite provide.
Average users don't want to figure anything out: adblockers, torrents, cloud sync, you name it.
It's only when they get screwed by the vendor that they realize that having a non-commercial, non-enshittified alternative is crucial to counterbalance tech company malfeasance.
rsync ... to where? You need to rent a server first. And to do that you need a credit card. And if you die, said credit card gets canceled, as is your server, as is all your data. Happened to me with a paid Dropbox account - card expired, all data lost. A free Dropbox account has an advantage that it is good for eternity (well, not a guarantee, but a reasonable assumption). Also good for privacy.
I do rsync too (robocopy, to be exact), and I prepaid the server for 2 years, but still, dropbox plays an important role in ensuring longevity of my data.
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 226 ms ] threadEdit: based on their help page "In countries with the preferred language set to English. Excluding Canada, the UK (United Kingdom), and countries within the EEA (European Economic Area)." https://help.dropbox.com/view-edit/privacy-settings-dropbox-...
I’m also in the EU, and the button was switched off for me too.
> Get access to products and features that Dropbox is still testing and evaluating, and give feedback to help our product teams build the best final product.
If you force people to do something they are more likely to do it then if you don't force them. Especially if they don't consent to doing it.
Heres what the link looks like for me in the US: https://www.dropbox.com/account/ai
Paid subscribers can see it in US, not sure whether it depends on the subscription tier though.
> Your files within Dropbox are sent to a third-party AI only when you chose to interact with AI powered features. For example, when you ask a question about a file.
puts the burden on the user to understand what an "AI powered feature" is
really, the trouble is Dropbox is outsourcing your private files to a third party and masking that via a optin (in the US) toggle.
I don't think users should have to worry that their service negotiated a invasive privacy process with a third party and they aren't being forthright about how it leaves the premise.
This is dark patterns all over again
I just put everything in Google Drive and a USB stick and have never looked at DB again.
> did I agree to this somewhere?
The CTO of Amazon uses Dropbox?!
Dropbox is sharing your files with AI partners without opt-in
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38627751
> Use artificial intelligence (AI) from third-party partners so you can work faster in Dropbox. We only use technology partners we have vetted. Your data is never used to train their internal models, and is deleted from third-party servers within 30 days.
https://www.dropbox.com/account/ai
and the setting for team accounts in the admin console is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/team/admin/settings/ai
Ours (for a US business account) was on by default. The text for the setting is:
> Let team members use artificial intelligence (AI) so they can work faster in Dropbox. We only use technology partners we have vetted. Your organization’s data is never used to train their internal models, and is deleted from third-party servers within 30 days.
There's a "learn more" link that goes here:
https://help.dropbox.com/view-edit/privacy-settings-dropbox-...
Dropbox claims that they "won’t let our third-party partners train their models on our user data without consent". The page further claims that the participation option is on by default for teams "participating in the Dropbox AI alpha", but I don't think we signed up for any such thing and the option was still on for us. I checked the settings and we are not currently enrolled. I have zero confidence that "consent" to use our data for model training won't also default to opt-in.
The page further states that Dropbox currently has one AI partner -- OpenAI.
I suspect there is a Great Deal of Precautionary Rationale (eh) protecting the Eurosphere from the worst privacy abuses.
> "Your files within Dropbox are sent to a third-party AI only when you chose to interact with AI powered features. For example, when you ask a question about a file. "
> "If you or your team is participating in the Dropbox AI alpha, the Third-party AI toggle in your account settings is turned On by default. Only the content relevant to an explicit request or command is sent to our third-party AI partners to generate an answer, summary, or transcript."
Basically, its saying "if you use AI tools, we'll send your data to a 3p, but if you don't, we're not".
The issue really is if they turned on a feature in the future "ask a question about this document" and you didn't know it meant that the document was sent over to OpenAI.
It turns itself back on??? So, what's the point of the toggle then?
We need blanket minimum privacy protections at a national level, and they should treat internal repurposing of data the same as third party sharing.
Since all major players in our industry have shown they can’t be trusted to curate large collections of sensitive data, inclusion in such internal datasets should be opt in as well.
Dropbox is a poster child for “this should be E2E encrypted”, so, yes, I’m arguing they should get your explicit opt-in before they are allowed to store unencrypted data or escrow keys on their end, and that the opt-in shouldn’t be required to use their services.
how would you implement some very trivial features like even being able to search though
https://help.dropbox.com/view-edit/privacy-settings-dropbox-...
still should be optin universally, but it's unlikely they're wasting compute scanning before a user even wants the service.
Maybe I'm an idiot but I literally can't navigate your website lol.
In the "What's new" part within the Dropbox environment, I did find a note dated October 10, 2023:
Quickly find the content you need with Dropbox AI
Dropbox AI for search helps you get the information you need without the hassle of manually searching through Dropbox. Ask a question about your Dropbox content and get a response within seconds. You can also find the files you need with everyday language instead of searching by keywords, and search results now come with a brief summary of each file.
Then, once you’ve opened individual files, Dropbox AI for file previews now lets you save time and effort by summarizing your content, from long documents to lengthy videos, into a clear and concise explanation with the click of a button.
Dropbox AI is currently in alpha and available in the US in EN only for Dropbox Pro, Standard, Advanced, Essentials, Business, and Business Plus. Some features may be available soon for eligible non-US customers to test.
FWIW, just checked mine (EU-based "pro" account), and the setting is there but was OFF. i have never specifically engaged any features regarding AI in dropbox.
i do recall seeing a popup in the web interface sometime in the past month about having AI summarize file content and i closed the popup without tapping anything which remotely appeared to be a consent button.
I would call that a win for European privacy regulation.
failure of imagination.
Hi dropbox, show me the costco receipt for the inflatable mattress i bought a few months ago.
Hi dropbox, show me the widget specs from ACME for 2025.
It took a while, but the arc of history is starting to bend in favour of that guy who said 'just use rsync' on Drobox's Show HN post in 2007.
It be interesting to see a breakdown on "time spent" between the people who went with Dropbox and started syncing stuff right away VS the people who first setup their own infrastructure to do the same thing.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
For better or worse, even enough grad students at MIT (which used to be one of the more computers-clueful places) used Dropbox so heavily that they included the Dropbox logo on the grad class ring:
https://thetech.com/2013/09/06/gradrat-v133-n35
The class rings have considerable symbolism, and are very important to some. I've heard that the rings can also be real icebreakers at some startup events (between people with MIT connections):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_class_ring
That's because OS's don't bother to support rsync with good UX. That's what the old "My Briefcase" feature in Windows 9x was all about. It even had special-case support for difference merging (or "reconciliation") which rsync alone doesn't quite provide.
It's only when they get screwed by the vendor that they realize that having a non-commercial, non-enshittified alternative is crucial to counterbalance tech company malfeasance.
I do rsync too (robocopy, to be exact), and I prepaid the server for 2 years, but still, dropbox plays an important role in ensuring longevity of my data.