>Citizens can be prosecuted for using illicit drugs even if they do so abroad.
Is this a serious consideration for Koreans traveling abroad? I am curious how this is being monitored and enforced, seems impossible to actually enforce.
I know in Korea it’s also illegal to test positive for drugs on a drug test, so not only for possession, as is usually the case. It’s incredibly strict on drug use.
You might get drug tested if you're involved in a car accident, a fight, getting swatted by your neighbours or a sasaeng fan¹, so it's not impossible to enforce.
In Korea if you're an actor or celebrity, then your agency and clients could end their contracts with you even based on a mere rumor. The press, people on social media are also incredibly aggressive, especially against women and would harass a celebrity once the rumor gets out. This is why spreading rumors is serious business in Asia.
It definitely is. It seems impossible to enforce but high-profile Koreans have been nabbed for things like, use of Adderall. I cannot remember her name, but a K-Pop singer got snagged for her use of Adderall in the states.
I find that Koreans can be surprisingly snitchy. For instance, garbage snitches. A lot of Koreans seem mortally afraid of accidentally throwing away plastic because neighbors would (and do) look at their trash and will report them to authorities for it. They can receive a hefty fine as a result.
A big part of the Lee Sun Kyun "scandal", less reported in the US media, is the fact that he was blackmailed by an escort. Having known very little about this, I thought he committed a mortal sin, but upon reading the allegations.. while they may look bad.. and they are really bad for his family.. they were at the very bottom of the totem pole of vice-seeking behaviors. They're not remotely reason for one to take their life over. Which leads to a broader discussion about Korea.The fact society in Korea makes suicide seem like a better option than the reputational ruination for the violation of what are essentially Christian-conservative values is a shame.
About the trash police - is there anything stopping a neighbour planting plastic in the garbage and then calling the authorities? Or just saying that the plastic isn't theirs, and perhaps the neighbour planted it? It just seems hard to prove either way.
Not really. Korea is still a high-trust society with hints of distrust and snitchy-ness.
It's really ironic. Most windows of low-rise Korean homes/"villas" have iron bars over them. Most homes have spiked fences. Trash police have many terrified of neighbors. There are cameras (Police cameras + always-on dash cameras) literally everywhere. None of these are hallmarks of high trust. And yet, I could leave a wallet in a mcdonalds and it'd still be there after 8 hours.
Yes, video surveillance on your garbage. I'm not joking. CCTVs, dash cams are everywhere in Korea. Even public toilet mounted hidden cameras (by pervs or blackmailers) are a thing.
First, I think it's clear I'm being somewhat loose and cheeky with my use of "what are essentially Christian-conservative values". Obviously, the use of drugs offend the sensibilities of much more than Christians. (I can't say I'm a huge fan of walking through the smell of weed so thick I could bounce off it), but if you understood christian society in Korea, you'd get what I meant.
Christian Koreans ajummas are hellcats. I'm not talking about tea-party 50/50 chance they did some wild things in college american conservatives but now are trying to erase those pangs of guilt through bible study. Christian Korean ajummas were born with these claws.
There is zero discussion about mental health with these folk. Things like ADHD or depression don't exist. They aren't afraid to give you a nasty look (as opposed to, say, the japanese). I cannot imagine what it's like to be famous and fallen out of grace in Korea.
I don't understand why Christians would necessarily be against the use of cannabis when you consider that it's a naturally growing plant. It strikes me as people second-guessing God and basically saying that he made a mistake in leaving it lying around. It would at least be more consistent if they also banned caffeine.
I don't know either. A known remedy for toothaches I've heard from old folks was to chew on some part of the hemp plant.
I think the idea of drug accelerationism/slippery slopes terrify people. I have to keep it real, though, america is doing a terrible job at dispelling the notion.
“If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Note this:
Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."
Because normal people want and vote this, because it results in a very safe country with much lower street crime figures. People like not having to worry about their kids taking public transport or walking alone.
Probably similar to American values of Nixon-era war-on-drugs.
SK has mandatory military service. I had a coworker whose best service friend was shot while on border patrol. By his own forces. He got lost and wasn’t quick enough with the password when challenged.
Being a military dictatorship for such a long time probably helps. Or being a "democracy" where the leader is the daughter of the former military dictator but is secretly controlled by a cult channeling her dead father while conspiring with the largest corporations [0].
They probably aren't drug testing every reentrant. But if you come back, commit a crime (car accident, assault, etc) and test positive, you can't say "well, I smoked weed when I was in Amsterdam last week".
In the US, CANZUK, etc that's a totally valid defense as those nations don't really have extranational laws on the books outside of tax, underage sex and human trafficking related ones. And even those are difficult to trigger, with the prosecution needing to prove that you traveled to another nation specifically to commit those offenses.
The other obvious case would be South Korean nationals (especially celebs/influencers) doing drugs and posting it on social media.
it's blowing my mind one of the (let's face it) best countries in the world treats people like shit for daring to help themselves. How is it better to be a big pharma slave for life?
It sounds like the accusations and investigation drove him to kill himself. The entire country should be ashamed.
Any war on drugs is a crime perpetrated by the government against its people. It is persecution and punishment for something that should be treated as a medical condition.
19 hours of interrogation sounds unreasonable. I mean either he tested positive for drugs in which case they could fine him or whatever or not in which case they shouldn't be doing that.
This one is hitting hard for me. He was the male lead in a K-Drama called My Mister. I've watched the entire thing twice. Since I heard this news, I've started my third watching. Few works in TV/movies (or art, really) have effected me as much as My Mister.
It's impossible to understand what really happened with Mr. Lee here, but the possibility that the message of My Mister applied to him in this situation, and that he might have missed that message, feels even more tragic to me.
My takeaway from My Mister...
There might be things in our lives that let us conclude that we do not have value as human beings. But there are often people out there who can see the value in us, even when we can't see it in ourselves. And it's quite possible that their view of us is closer to reality than our own. The reason for that is that they can see the impact we have on them - real, direct evidence of value. When we experience this mismatch between how we view ourselves and how others view us, it's easy to assume that they have some ulterior motive or that they are being overly kind when they tell us of our value. We should do what we can to find who those people are, hear them, and show them the respect of believing they are speaking their own truth about you. It might just save us.
This perspective has had a profound impact on me. I've been lucky enough to find a couple of those other people in my life in the last couple of years. In both cases, they were people I cared so much about that I was judging myself as letting them down because I set my bar of support for them impossibly high. Once I truly heard them, I found out I had profoundly affected their lives for the better - something I had been totally blind to. Accepting that was difficult, as it required accepting that I had been completely wrong for a long time.
I've also been more forceful in the other direction. I tend to be kind. That leads to people easily dismissing praise from me. But I do not give praise lightly. Being aware of this conflict, I've started looking for when people are dismissing my praise. When I see it, I'll say something like, "Please show me the respect of believing that I know what I'm seeing, I like what I'm seeing, and I'm telling you the truth about it." It often results in them tearing up as they internalize praise they normally wouldn't. Seeing those tears is hard because I know the internal conflict they are going through. But it is also good to know that they are seeing that they might me undervaluing themselves.
34 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 88.7 ms ] thread>Citizens can be prosecuted for using illicit drugs even if they do so abroad.
Is this a serious consideration for Koreans traveling abroad? I am curious how this is being monitored and enforced, seems impossible to actually enforce.
In Korea if you're an actor or celebrity, then your agency and clients could end their contracts with you even based on a mere rumor. The press, people on social media are also incredibly aggressive, especially against women and would harass a celebrity once the rumor gets out. This is why spreading rumors is serious business in Asia.
1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaeng_fan
My guess is Lee has possibly committed suicide after being investigated for drug use, harassed and his life basically ruined.
I find that Koreans can be surprisingly snitchy. For instance, garbage snitches. A lot of Koreans seem mortally afraid of accidentally throwing away plastic because neighbors would (and do) look at their trash and will report them to authorities for it. They can receive a hefty fine as a result.
A big part of the Lee Sun Kyun "scandal", less reported in the US media, is the fact that he was blackmailed by an escort. Having known very little about this, I thought he committed a mortal sin, but upon reading the allegations.. while they may look bad.. and they are really bad for his family.. they were at the very bottom of the totem pole of vice-seeking behaviors. They're not remotely reason for one to take their life over. Which leads to a broader discussion about Korea.The fact society in Korea makes suicide seem like a better option than the reputational ruination for the violation of what are essentially Christian-conservative values is a shame.
It's really ironic. Most windows of low-rise Korean homes/"villas" have iron bars over them. Most homes have spiked fences. Trash police have many terrified of neighbors. There are cameras (Police cameras + always-on dash cameras) literally everywhere. None of these are hallmarks of high trust. And yet, I could leave a wallet in a mcdonalds and it'd still be there after 8 hours.
> No. Fool.
First, I think it's clear I'm being somewhat loose and cheeky with my use of "what are essentially Christian-conservative values". Obviously, the use of drugs offend the sensibilities of much more than Christians. (I can't say I'm a huge fan of walking through the smell of weed so thick I could bounce off it), but if you understood christian society in Korea, you'd get what I meant.
Christian Koreans ajummas are hellcats. I'm not talking about tea-party 50/50 chance they did some wild things in college american conservatives but now are trying to erase those pangs of guilt through bible study. Christian Korean ajummas were born with these claws.
There is zero discussion about mental health with these folk. Things like ADHD or depression don't exist. They aren't afraid to give you a nasty look (as opposed to, say, the japanese). I cannot imagine what it's like to be famous and fallen out of grace in Korea.
I think the idea of drug accelerationism/slippery slopes terrify people. I have to keep it real, though, america is doing a terrible job at dispelling the notion.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1422765/south-korea-cann...
Probably similar to American values of Nixon-era war-on-drugs.
SK has mandatory military service. I had a coworker whose best service friend was shot while on border patrol. By his own forces. He got lost and wasn’t quick enough with the password when challenged.
Coworkers view: “He screwed up.”
Different world.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_sc...
In the US, CANZUK, etc that's a totally valid defense as those nations don't really have extranational laws on the books outside of tax, underage sex and human trafficking related ones. And even those are difficult to trigger, with the prosecution needing to prove that you traveled to another nation specifically to commit those offenses.
The other obvious case would be South Korean nationals (especially celebs/influencers) doing drugs and posting it on social media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_South_Korea
Any war on drugs is a crime perpetrated by the government against its people. It is persecution and punishment for something that should be treated as a medical condition.
It's impossible to understand what really happened with Mr. Lee here, but the possibility that the message of My Mister applied to him in this situation, and that he might have missed that message, feels even more tragic to me.
My takeaway from My Mister...
There might be things in our lives that let us conclude that we do not have value as human beings. But there are often people out there who can see the value in us, even when we can't see it in ourselves. And it's quite possible that their view of us is closer to reality than our own. The reason for that is that they can see the impact we have on them - real, direct evidence of value. When we experience this mismatch between how we view ourselves and how others view us, it's easy to assume that they have some ulterior motive or that they are being overly kind when they tell us of our value. We should do what we can to find who those people are, hear them, and show them the respect of believing they are speaking their own truth about you. It might just save us.
This perspective has had a profound impact on me. I've been lucky enough to find a couple of those other people in my life in the last couple of years. In both cases, they were people I cared so much about that I was judging myself as letting them down because I set my bar of support for them impossibly high. Once I truly heard them, I found out I had profoundly affected their lives for the better - something I had been totally blind to. Accepting that was difficult, as it required accepting that I had been completely wrong for a long time.
I've also been more forceful in the other direction. I tend to be kind. That leads to people easily dismissing praise from me. But I do not give praise lightly. Being aware of this conflict, I've started looking for when people are dismissing my praise. When I see it, I'll say something like, "Please show me the respect of believing that I know what I'm seeing, I like what I'm seeing, and I'm telling you the truth about it." It often results in them tearing up as they internalize praise they normally wouldn't. Seeing those tears is hard because I know the internal conflict they are going through. But it is also good to know that they are seeing that they might me undervaluing themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Mister