I'm a truck guy, I like pickups but this abomination reminds me the Pontiac Aztek. I don't expect this truck to be very popular with the people who use trucks for a living. Is there enough Tesla bros, Soccer Mom's who drive lifted jeeps, the odd 50 year old male who is going through some kind of midlife crisis, etc, to make this a success, I doubt it. I predict I will never see 5 guys with lunch boxes and hard hats get out of one, but perhaps that is not the market.
>I predict I will never see 5 guys with lunch boxes and hard hats get out of one
I'm sure you will around Boca Chica, but they probably won't have much of a choice either. That said, it could be a pretty good 'proving ground' if they use them to run 120/240V equipment onsite.
I got a hybrid Ff150 with built in 7500watt generator for exactly that purpose. It’s looks nice, runs awesome, and is the ideal truck. I wish Ford would put a bigger battery in it and prioritize it over the Lightning.
All I want is a pretty basic 'Hilux style' plug-in hybrid AWD truck that can do 50-80 miles on battery-only and tow ~7k. A truck that isn't UNNECESSARILY HUGE, nor loaded with tons of unnecessary 'features' to try to justify an $80k price tag.
> I don't expect this truck to be very popular with the people who use trucks for a living
"People who use trucks for a living" are a vanishingly small part of the market for trucks, though. And the trucks they buy are the low-margin vehicles, for the most part. Does the actual market want the Cybertruck? Damned if I know either. But the people to ask are precisely the socker moms and mid-life insecure tech nerds you're making fun of.
In almost every practical utility aspect a traditional truck outperforms a cybertruck, towing anything heavy, driving anywhere remote, etc. So you’ve lost everyone who owns a camper.
For people who don’t need the power or durability of a full size truck, the Maverick is significantly more economical as an around town truck to throw your mountain bike in the back of.
Which largely leaves us with people who currently buy for vanity or similar reasons. And I don’t see how the cybertruck is going to find significant market share in a group of people love V8 engines, lift kits, and rolling coal. And it’s not gonna work its way into the generations old argument of which truck is better Ford or Chevy.
The answer is Ford btw, or if you wanna cheat, Toyota.
The Maverick has about 1/3 the engine/motor power and towing capacity of the cybertruck. I mean, it's a successful vehicle, and much more affordable. And there are very legitimate concerns with EV range when towing. But a lot of your intuition about "power", "durability", "towing anything heavy", etc... seem pretty misinformed. On paper the Cybertruck is a monster. It may fail for other reasons, but certainly not checkbox capabilities.
I specifically wrote that the Maverick is a more practical and economical solution than the cybertruck when you’re not in the group of people that needs power/durability. I don’t have any opinion on whether the cybertruck is durable, I assume it’s fine. I also agree that the Maverick doesn’t have much overlap with the cybertruck but, it is a popular part of the truck market and outperforms the cybertruck on range and economics.
As for power the cybertruck pulls 11k pounds which puts it at similar towing capacity as an f150. Some f150 engine options come in above, some below. The smallest engine f250 nearly doubles it. The cybertruck only competes in the 1/2 ton range. Everyone who buys 3/4 ton up will be losing significant capability.
The range when towing is the biggest problem as you said. It’s just pitiful. Just the other day there was a report of a cybertruck getting 160 mile range with another 6000lb tesla on a trailer. My 2011 f150 that i bought for $15k in 2015 would more than double that range. What do you suppose the range is on a 8000lb box trailer? What about when you’re headed up I-70 with 2000lb trailer?
Half the trucks out there that people complain about driving around town empty have a snowmobile trailer or a boat or a camper at home. People take those recreational items an hour or two out of town on a regular basis, typically in directions that won’t have a charger.
I aware I’m an outlier but the closest superchargers to me are 90 miles away. Around here more than half the vehicles you see are trucks and a cybertruck is just not a feasible option. I see a couple rivians around town but they’re vanity purchases, used in a capacity that could be served, by a maverick or a subaru. Which is fine. You can buy something that you think is cool. But thats the market. People thinking it’s cool. People who want their truck to do more than take the boat down to the marina 30 miles away twice a year are likely going to look elsewhere.
Really though, the only thing the cybertruck needs to do to be “successful” is to be profitable. If people buy it then it doesn’t really matter what it can or can’t do. I’ve seen number’s thrown around like 200k sales per year for breakeven etc. I don’t know the validity of any of those types of esitmates but it’s hard to imagine tesla constantly selling 30% as many cybertrucks in a year as ford does f150s. But more power to them if it does.
Maybe there is a market for people who get shot at or with those that are paranoid about that? I know the windows aren't bullet proof, but the panels stop smaller calibers. If it is performance enough, maybe they could be used by police? The default panels on their cars don't offer protection.
Elon got on stage and told us we’d have a bulletproof, amphibious, 500mi range truck that can haul far more than it actually can for under $40k and deliveries would start years ago
Both have a sort-of futuristic look, in a non-conventional way. Both (as cars) appeal to a tiny niche of (non overlapping) users.
Most of the current appeal of a Delorean, indeed probably the only reason it even still exists, is because of BTTF. It's cool in a weird way not a practical way. It's all styling (and doors) - as a car it's, well, not great.
Cybertruck is also really all about the styling. As a truck it's not special. It may turn out to be produced in small numbers. It'll likely be desirable as a collectors piece in the future.
Obviously with styling this distinctive it's not going to appeal to everyone. Most likely think it's ugly.
So comparing it to a Delorean I think is fair (although obviously their heritage - one company bombed , the other is changing the world - is obviously not the comparison being made.
I am kind of joking, but not really. I find the comparison offensive to Deloreans because I like Deloreans but really dislike the look of the cybertruck.
Others' differing opinions are completely valid too, it's merely a matter of personal taste, IMHO.
It will be interesting to see how collector vehicles evolve
There are still Delorean owners and meetups, because 80s cars can be maintained and operated pretty much as they were back then
In 40 years will a cybertruck even have a cloud service to connect to for all the features it is sold for today? Will there even be a compatible cell network for its radios?
I have computers and peripherals way younger than a delorean and they are effectively paperweights because there is nothing to connect them to anymore. Is that the future of these cars if we can’t update them, or point them to new endpoints when Tesla ends maintenance of their cloud?
Huge dud built on lies and ketamine dreams. The target audience is small, if it exists at all. It under delivers in every regard. I’m not sure if there’s anything it truly does well.
I don’t understand why everyone is going the behemoth truck route. It seems the market is ripe for a cheap, electric, light duty work truck maybe even work van shared platform.
A lot of the Truck market is built on a particular masculine image that requires the vehicle to be big and imposing. While smaller trucks make far more practical sense, the audience in question is more interested in the appearance of doing the work than actually doing it.
I think of the market in two segments. The self identified sigma male who thinks a truck is what makes you masculine. And the much larger fleet market of stripped down work trucks. The later of which seems underserved in the EV space.
I'd love an ev minivan. Looked at the pacifica phev but double the complexity, and few charging options convinced me to keep looking. The price of the ev transit vs the range seems pretty bad otherwise I'd be interested in it as well.
I was convinced that the Cybertruck would never ship and it was just trying to dupe people into laying down a reservation payment to fund whatever dumb idea Musk came up with next.
While I still think that’s mostly the case, I am surprised to see the thing ending up on the road, and that there’s more than one. While I hate the look of the Cybertruck, dislike Musk a lot, and don’t care much for Tesla, I’m pleased to see them hold to the plan.
Pretty much every Tesla product that has been promised or announced has been delivered, albeit late. I don't know why you would expect this one to be a dupe.
No, it was supposed to have a range of ~500 miles. Instead, the longer range version will have a (EPA) range of 440 miles. Admittedly many will still be disappointed by the difference, but not nearly as much as you're suggesting.
They announced the Roadster 7 years ago. I would say this falls squarely in the camp of "not delivered".
7 years is an entire model generation for the broader car industry. Other manufacturers have announced, delivered, and announced the next version of cars within this time period.
Your statement amounts to "They've delivered everything they've announced except the things they've announced and never delivered".
> 7 years is an entire model generation for the broader car industry
Sure, and I understand the disappointment and impatience, but Tesla is not exactly positioning themselves as a conventional player in the car industry either. I don't think they care too much about following traditional timelines. The only thing they care about is "accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy" (their mission statement).
I find it strange that this is presented as a "dud", on the one hand, but on the other hand he places it somewhere in the middle of the pack with respect to the competition, and concludes that he "wants to buy one".
I loved Windows Phone, and was eager to buy one (at a discounted employee price, but I liked it enough even full price was tempting). I knew it was a nice phone, but I was also 100% sure early on that it was going to be a huge dud.
Maybe the author feels like that about CyberTruck?
Every time something comes out, an industry expert comes out and says “they’re doing this all wrong. It’s not going to work” and then the thing sells like gangbusters. Each time I’m like “No way.” And each time I’m proven wrong.
The obvious answer is that there’s no information in these guys.
Very short and undetailed "article-based-on-youtube-review" ending on this confusing note:
"Even with its shortcomings Conner wants to buy a Cybertruck but believes that Tesla oversold what the vehicle would be capable of, and for that reason, he believes it's probably Tesla's first dud."
My personal definition of the word 'dud' would definitely exclude any desire to purchase.
If you are an enthusiast, as these EV guys certainly are, you’ll want to buy a lot of weird things that are unique but failed to land well in the market.
I know I have bought my share of scrappy computer hardware, like early PDAs or netbooks that were by many measures total flops.
I understand your point, and even relate as it comes to scrappy computer hardware, but I do struggle to see the analogy stretching from Daikatana's price to the Cybertruck's price. Additionally to the space required to store such a collection.
Shame it doesn't have a bench seat up front. That's the retro-futurist vibe I was hoping for
Still a success in the history of automobile design. Lambo-level arrogance at 10x the scale
Practically speaking, if you need to haul sod or tow your boat to the lake an hour away, it's going to be very competitive on the used market once a million units are on the road
Yeah, the cybertruck is like a new dress shown in a fashion show. Perhaps a little too avant-garde for regular folks to wear/drive, but it pushes the envelope of what is considered normal and opens the way for others to try other innovative designs and materials. Sooner or later, the idea first showcased in Paris trickles down to H&M.
Even run-of-the-mill sedans and SUVs are looking more futuristic these days, and I like the trend. :)
> it's going to be very competitive on the used market once a million units are on the road
If a million units are on the road.
An unconventional design must dominate the market, and quickly so. Otherwise it just slowly settles into the position of a niche product that's expensive to fix.
It's cool to be the first mover that inspires a whole new generation of automotive design, like I said above, but being cool is not necessarily profitable.
"Even with its shortcomings Conner wants to buy a Cybertruck but believes that Tesla oversold what the vehicle would be capable of, and for that reason, he believes it's probably Tesla's first dud."
This is not the first skeptical review of Tesla I have seen where the reviewer "still wants one" despite identifying various flaws.
If that is Tesla's usual customer, then it probably matters little whether Tesla delivers what it promises, as long as it delivers _something_.
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[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 124 ms ] threadI'm sure you will around Boca Chica, but they probably won't have much of a choice either. That said, it could be a pretty good 'proving ground' if they use them to run 120/240V equipment onsite.
I really wish someone would make this happen.
"People who use trucks for a living" are a vanishingly small part of the market for trucks, though. And the trucks they buy are the low-margin vehicles, for the most part. Does the actual market want the Cybertruck? Damned if I know either. But the people to ask are precisely the socker moms and mid-life insecure tech nerds you're making fun of.
For people who don’t need the power or durability of a full size truck, the Maverick is significantly more economical as an around town truck to throw your mountain bike in the back of.
Which largely leaves us with people who currently buy for vanity or similar reasons. And I don’t see how the cybertruck is going to find significant market share in a group of people love V8 engines, lift kits, and rolling coal. And it’s not gonna work its way into the generations old argument of which truck is better Ford or Chevy.
The answer is Ford btw, or if you wanna cheat, Toyota.
As for power the cybertruck pulls 11k pounds which puts it at similar towing capacity as an f150. Some f150 engine options come in above, some below. The smallest engine f250 nearly doubles it. The cybertruck only competes in the 1/2 ton range. Everyone who buys 3/4 ton up will be losing significant capability.
The range when towing is the biggest problem as you said. It’s just pitiful. Just the other day there was a report of a cybertruck getting 160 mile range with another 6000lb tesla on a trailer. My 2011 f150 that i bought for $15k in 2015 would more than double that range. What do you suppose the range is on a 8000lb box trailer? What about when you’re headed up I-70 with 2000lb trailer?
Half the trucks out there that people complain about driving around town empty have a snowmobile trailer or a boat or a camper at home. People take those recreational items an hour or two out of town on a regular basis, typically in directions that won’t have a charger.
I aware I’m an outlier but the closest superchargers to me are 90 miles away. Around here more than half the vehicles you see are trucks and a cybertruck is just not a feasible option. I see a couple rivians around town but they’re vanity purchases, used in a capacity that could be served, by a maverick or a subaru. Which is fine. You can buy something that you think is cool. But thats the market. People thinking it’s cool. People who want their truck to do more than take the boat down to the marina 30 miles away twice a year are likely going to look elsewhere.
Really though, the only thing the cybertruck needs to do to be “successful” is to be profitable. If people buy it then it doesn’t really matter what it can or can’t do. I’ve seen number’s thrown around like 200k sales per year for breakeven etc. I don’t know the validity of any of those types of esitmates but it’s hard to imagine tesla constantly selling 30% as many cybertrucks in a year as ford does f150s. But more power to them if it does.
Elon got on stage and told us we’d have a bulletproof, amphibious, 500mi range truck that can haul far more than it actually can for under $40k and deliveries would start years ago
Both have a sort-of futuristic look, in a non-conventional way. Both (as cars) appeal to a tiny niche of (non overlapping) users.
Most of the current appeal of a Delorean, indeed probably the only reason it even still exists, is because of BTTF. It's cool in a weird way not a practical way. It's all styling (and doors) - as a car it's, well, not great.
Cybertruck is also really all about the styling. As a truck it's not special. It may turn out to be produced in small numbers. It'll likely be desirable as a collectors piece in the future.
Obviously with styling this distinctive it's not going to appeal to everyone. Most likely think it's ugly.
So comparing it to a Delorean I think is fair (although obviously their heritage - one company bombed , the other is changing the world - is obviously not the comparison being made.
Others' differing opinions are completely valid too, it's merely a matter of personal taste, IMHO.
I don't think the comparison is saying they "look the same", but rather "they're both niche".
(Personally, I agree, the Delorean looks great, and the doors man, the doors. The cybertruck is just ugly.)
There are still Delorean owners and meetups, because 80s cars can be maintained and operated pretty much as they were back then
In 40 years will a cybertruck even have a cloud service to connect to for all the features it is sold for today? Will there even be a compatible cell network for its radios?
I have computers and peripherals way younger than a delorean and they are effectively paperweights because there is nothing to connect them to anymore. Is that the future of these cars if we can’t update them, or point them to new endpoints when Tesla ends maintenance of their cloud?
I don’t understand why everyone is going the behemoth truck route. It seems the market is ripe for a cheap, electric, light duty work truck maybe even work van shared platform.
They aren't trying to create the appearance of doing work. They're trying to create the appearance of (faux) survivalism.
VW's ID.Buzz is arriving this year. That's your one option.
Edit.. not an EV tho
While I still think that’s mostly the case, I am surprised to see the thing ending up on the road, and that there’s more than one. While I hate the look of the Cybertruck, dislike Musk a lot, and don’t care much for Tesla, I’m pleased to see them hold to the plan.
The Cybertruck, for example was supposed to have a range of nearly 1000 miles.
FSD is unlikely to ever ship as promised.
7 years is an entire model generation for the broader car industry. Other manufacturers have announced, delivered, and announced the next version of cars within this time period.
Your statement amounts to "They've delivered everything they've announced except the things they've announced and never delivered".
Sure, and I understand the disappointment and impatience, but Tesla is not exactly positioning themselves as a conventional player in the car industry either. I don't think they care too much about following traditional timelines. The only thing they care about is "accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy" (their mission statement).
I don't think it's reasonable to expect that everyone will agree.
Maybe the author feels like that about CyberTruck?
The obvious answer is that there’s no information in these guys.
"Even with its shortcomings Conner wants to buy a Cybertruck but believes that Tesla oversold what the vehicle would be capable of, and for that reason, he believes it's probably Tesla's first dud."
My personal definition of the word 'dud' would definitely exclude any desire to purchase.
Clickbait crap article / title.
I know I have bought my share of scrappy computer hardware, like early PDAs or netbooks that were by many measures total flops.
I even bought Daikatana out of pure curiosity
I may just be thinking too practically though.
Still a success in the history of automobile design. Lambo-level arrogance at 10x the scale
Practically speaking, if you need to haul sod or tow your boat to the lake an hour away, it's going to be very competitive on the used market once a million units are on the road
…at some point…maybe…
Even run-of-the-mill sedans and SUVs are looking more futuristic these days, and I like the trend. :)
> it's going to be very competitive on the used market once a million units are on the road
If a million units are on the road.
An unconventional design must dominate the market, and quickly so. Otherwise it just slowly settles into the position of a niche product that's expensive to fix.
It's cool to be the first mover that inspires a whole new generation of automotive design, like I said above, but being cool is not necessarily profitable.
It might be 'innovative' but you still look like an ass in it
This is not the first skeptical review of Tesla I have seen where the reviewer "still wants one" despite identifying various flaws.
If that is Tesla's usual customer, then it probably matters little whether Tesla delivers what it promises, as long as it delivers _something_.
These do not sound like discerning customers.