The real issue is people have forgotten how to negotiate. All of the excuses listed were from hiring managers that don’t know how to negotiate. If I were there boss, I’d be furious. Top talent will negotiate, because they learned how. All businesses negotiate. Why should this contract be any different?
I think this advice is way too risk averse, in most situations. Can employers rescind your offer for negotiating? Of course. Anything can happen in any situation. But that doesn't mean we should walk on egg shells because something bad could happen. Maybe you should also never speak up when you see something suboptimal going on, because it's possible your manager could fire you on the spot out of anger.
If a person is in a truly precarious position, then sure, that's maybe a time to minimize risks that low frequency + high impact. But that's not advice about negotiation, that's advice about risk management, where negotiation is just an example.
The second half of this article concerns bad negotiating practices, and that advice I agree with.
And then I can also get down with the general perspective that best practices we are used to from the "long 2010s" should be given a critical eye. Maybe we'll get back to that environment, but right now, we're in a significantly different world.
And if a company has extended an offer to work with them, the company rescinding that offer over you asking for ~10% more would be honestly doing you a favor by signalling what a bad company they are.
That's my was the first thought to cross my mind. As I was composing my post though, I tried to keep in mind that there are people in a position to need to take crappy jobs with crappy companies, and that's part of who this piece is addressing. I just think that "don't negotiate" is the wrong framing, even if in some situations, it could possibly be the right move.
oh yes they can rescind an offer. Before I settled into self-employment, I received an offer from a company I wanted to work for (space weather business). The hiring team really liked my experience in the domain, and we both thought it was a good cultural match. They gave me a verbal offer. This is when I asked for accommodation for a repetitive strain injury. (Acoustically isolated place where I could use speech recognition without interfering with others.
Within 48 hours, the offer was rescinded by HR. The recruiter was dumbfounded, the hiring manager was apologetic, and I was disappointed and pissed. At this point, I decided to fully commit to self-employment because it was clearly the only way I could work and give myself an environment that didn't increase the damage to my arms.
my practice has grown enough that it looks like I'll be hiring people in the next year or so, and my experience has taught me how to accommodate different needs and different styles of working. I'm going to try really hard to not be an asshole company even though it looks like my UK contractor is going away thanks the tax code change.
My lessons were 1) reinforcement of HR is actively harmful to your career, 2) no matter what the law says, companies will discriminate based on everything the law says they should not, 3) if you are wrong ability, gender, age, you are better off being self-employed.
If they are already offering double your current salary, should you risk it to ask for more? Of course you can negotiate, but if you lose that it is a big deal. It's an honest question, I found myself in that situation.
Thirty years ago something similar happened to me. They emailed me an offer with the expectation that I agree asap but when I answered I need a few days to think about it, they rescinded the offer with the reasons they weren't sure that I was really enthousiastic about the job. Note that I am Deaf and it is common that employers were always very wary about employing me.
I was lucky. I found something else. And shortly thereafter that company (Meyer Burger) executed a mass lay-off.
Now I am semi-retired and when I read horror stories about job search and lay-offs I always tell to myself that I am extremely lucky being out of the "Hamsterrad" (a German idiom literally meaning hamster wheel).
This is why you negotiate up-front before entering the loop. It is too easy to get burned playing the "you know you want me" game, especially in a down market like the one we're in.
24 comments
[ 0.14 ms ] story [ 76.3 ms ] threadIf a person is in a truly precarious position, then sure, that's maybe a time to minimize risks that low frequency + high impact. But that's not advice about negotiation, that's advice about risk management, where negotiation is just an example.
The second half of this article concerns bad negotiating practices, and that advice I agree with.
And then I can also get down with the general perspective that best practices we are used to from the "long 2010s" should be given a critical eye. Maybe we'll get back to that environment, but right now, we're in a significantly different world.
Within 48 hours, the offer was rescinded by HR. The recruiter was dumbfounded, the hiring manager was apologetic, and I was disappointed and pissed. At this point, I decided to fully commit to self-employment because it was clearly the only way I could work and give myself an environment that didn't increase the damage to my arms.
my practice has grown enough that it looks like I'll be hiring people in the next year or so, and my experience has taught me how to accommodate different needs and different styles of working. I'm going to try really hard to not be an asshole company even though it looks like my UK contractor is going away thanks the tax code change.
And by the way, I'm sorry you had that experience.
This is absurd. Why would anyone give you $120K if you’re saying right there you’ll be happy to accept $100K?
If you have a specific number, "Thank for the offer! If you could go up to $X, I would be able to sign immediately."
And the super magic words are "I have another offer for X, but I think your company would be more exciting and interesting, cam you match it?"
If your downside is protected and you've got options, you're a fool if you're not negotiating.
I was lucky. I found something else. And shortly thereafter that company (Meyer Burger) executed a mass lay-off.
Now I am semi-retired and when I read horror stories about job search and lay-offs I always tell to myself that I am extremely lucky being out of the "Hamsterrad" (a German idiom literally meaning hamster wheel).
That sort of counterparty will abuse you -- like dropping your salary just as you're about to sign.
Everything is a negotiation.