>"In fact, when it came to just trying to live as a foreigner in the country itself, all the bureaucracies were in place. It was really hard doing everyday things like renting a bike, getting a SIM card, or even getting a gym membership. I really struggled..."
I'm an expat (full-time in Thailand) and this is so true. 10 years since I made the move and new immigration-related red tape pops up all the time.
Probably the best example is opening a bank account. If you don't have a work visa, you can't get an ATM card or, more importantly, the bank provider's mobile app, which is where the vast majority of payments take place (even street food vendors--way better electronic payments than the US IMO).
The same goes for a metro or subway card. You can buy them one-off with cash, but the lines are super long. If you have a work permit, you can get a public transit card that you reload from, you guessed it, your bank app.
I don't remember the process for SIM cards. You can definitely get a travel one. Mine is "permanent" because for a brief period I had a work-permit job.
Renting an apartment the "right" (legal) way requires a ton of paperwork, but most landlords just fudge all the difficult fields. And that's true for a bunch of services/requirements in Thailand.
Probably worst of all is that even if you have a work permit (or, in my case, a marriage visa), you still have to go to immigration once every 90 days just to confirm that you're still in the country and don't have any warrants out for your arrest. 90-day reports are the bane of any foreigner in Thailand and take a whole day for what is essentially just a roll call.
I help people settle in Germany and it's very similar. The system is never designed with immigrants in consideration. Moving here involves "creating" a person in a bunch of systems all at once, instead of over two decades. That exposes a lot of circular dependencies in bureaucratic requirements.
Yes, 90-day reporting makes no sense. I am also a 3 hr drive from my nearest immigration office, so a full day, ferry crossing, city traffic, with costs of car rental & gas.
There's no fee for the 90-day renewal, so no opportunity for expecting a bribe - unlike so many other aspects of Thai immigration, where chance of a bribe seems to guide policy, and obfuscation of those policies. So the 90-day renewal does not even enrich govt, or (more importantly :) its immi officers. It is just an unjustified nuisance to all participants.
And you need an exit visa if you plan to leave the country before the 90 days and then re-enter. Also unnecessary, because you will transit immigration at the border anyway - unless you are sailing out on your private yacht :)
Banks are the new enforcers of govt policies, from KYC/AML, to full surveillance.
It is difficult to move countries and change banks/phones/2FA. Banks seem to think that changing a phone is significant - they Knew Their Customer last month, but getting a burner phone in a different country seems to mean they do not Know You Now as a Customer. Phones do not (should not) indicate anything other than travel or holiday - not residence, not tax liability, not property ownership, not marriage, not intentions for a full tax year, nothing.
If you are renting in a resort/tower/block from a company, and they have an online govt account (most should), then when you sign a lease or long-stay, they should file a TM 10 online. You should report to the immi office within 30 days, but it's a formality, they just check on the system. When you next do annual renewal, you need to bring copies of the property ownership records (Blue Book, etc.), but the company should be well-organized, well-documented and familiar with the procedure.
The problem is private landlords. They do not have online account, and you together, will have to file paper TM 10 at the immi office. You will need Blue Book etc, but there may be a chain of ownerships of the property, mixing Thai individuals, Thai companies, and farangs who want to hide their identity or stake (more than 49% ownership by farangs is illegal). Then it can be almost impossible to get the right docs.
You cannot stay hotel, temporary boarding, or AirBnB for a long-term visa.
I recommend you do not use a visa agent to get a long-term Thai visa (1yr). They will charge about 25k THB ($700) and my understanding is that at least 10k THB of that goes directly to the immigration officer as a bribe. It also means less work for the officer, as they just automatically stamp submissions by a trusted agency (they know it will be accurate and complete).
Note, that bribing public officials is an offence in your home country, if you are from US, UK, EU, (... OECD), because FCPA, UK BA etc. Doing your own application, without any bribe, is the best approach, ethically and financially (but not for stress and hassle :) Make it a point of honor to do the application yourself.
Most people genuinely believe that they would be happier if they could travel. They don’t realize that if they are already sad it will only continue with enough time. There is no magic trick to take you out of your problems. You don’t like a 9-5? Traveling while having a 9-5 won’t make you like it more. Being a digital nomad is great, and I would never take it for granted. Most people can’t even travel until they are retired and in their late ages. Any little inconvenience while traveling is not an issue with being a digital nomad, it’s a common issue that travelers all experiences. That is unless you have a 9-5.
You will be sad, but the real question is if it’s better to be sad on a tropical beach sipping a Mai-Tai or sitting in your suburban home in a cold climate during the long winter months. I can say from experience (have taken a few stints working from home in a warm location over the winter) one is not like the other.
If you are going through something, it's good to have long-term relationships to lean on. The hardest part of long-term travel for me is loneliness. I could be a digital nomad, but my friends make me miss home after 4-6 weeks.
The person who mentioned their issues using the bathroom in Dubai is either very brave, very naive, or knows something I don't.
Dubai executes trans people, and that person may not identify as trans but I'd absolutely be terrified to go there if I were visibly gender non-conforming.
T a x F r e e was about employment or starting a business.
Dubai should not be a tourist destination. There is nothing there.
If you want desert and desolation, with mountains, and nicer people, go to Oman. Musandam is remarkable (fjords on the Strait of Hormuz!), and usually accessed from Dubai. Hiking around Jabal Shams canyon, or Jebel Akhdar, can be tough but enchanting (apricot and rose harvests), and there are a smattering of old forts in the mountains (e.g. Nizwa).
Egypt is much more famous, and rightly so. However, the best single destination in the world, not just the Arab world, is Petra (Jordan), which should certainly top any bucket list.
Counterclaim: I live in Dubai, have several trans friends and colleagues who live and work here, and they have many other trans friends who come to visit frequently.
Never heard a single instance or issue of this, not to mention executions.
I've done the "digital nomad" thing for the past 9 years. Yes, it does indeed get very old after a while.
I think the way to go is to have a home where you stay ~9 months out of the year. A secondary home where you stay 1-2 months a year. Then you spend a month on vacation traveling and checking out new destinations.
It's not so bad if you live cheap for 9 months, and sublet your apartment while you're gone. Traveling doesn't have to mean flying every week either. Many destinations are cheaper than home, and staying there actually saves you money after a while.
So if you're on a developer salary in Europe, this sort of arrangement is well within your means.
It really doesn't have to be so. You can reasonably buy a really nice vacation flat at the beach in, say, Albania for 30-60k€ or refurbish a Japanese "Akiya" (abandoned home) for similar cost. If you're into skiing and beaches Turkey might be a cheaper consideration as well. (i.e. Antalya) I'm sure similar options exist in the Americas.
Added benefit is you can run an AirBnB off-season, depending on where and what you buy.
Such things are realizable loan-free with a few years worth of savings, no richness needed.
Apparently, he is causing this person to be envious. It doesn't matter if the 'rich' person has been slaving away for 30 years in order to be financially independent enough to do it now. Some young person may decide that because they can't afford to do the same thing at the moment; you should not be able to do it either.
It's not envy, it's recognition of the fact that the rich are disconnected from reality and don't realize the parasitic nature of our economic system. You also seem to share the idea that if you just work real hard for enough time you'll be able to do anything the rich do, and that anyone who complains is just jealous or lazy. I don't want power for myself, I'm opposed to it.
Do you envy people who can do evil things better than you?
Yeah I'll echo that. It can get pretty lonely. The novelty wears off after the first couple hostels or BnBs. Glad I did a lot of it, but also glad to be done with it and having roots.
It's good to have terms to distinguish those shades. I find the distinction between expat and immigrant contentious* and refuse to use the latter term, but digital nomads are a different lot that's closer to tourists than immigrants.
* In Berlin, two Indian guys work at Delivery Hero. One writes code in an office and the other delivers food on a bike. One gets called an expat and the other an immigrant.
33 comments
[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 75.6 ms ] threadI'm an expat (full-time in Thailand) and this is so true. 10 years since I made the move and new immigration-related red tape pops up all the time.
The same goes for a metro or subway card. You can buy them one-off with cash, but the lines are super long. If you have a work permit, you can get a public transit card that you reload from, you guessed it, your bank app.
I don't remember the process for SIM cards. You can definitely get a travel one. Mine is "permanent" because for a brief period I had a work-permit job.
Renting an apartment the "right" (legal) way requires a ton of paperwork, but most landlords just fudge all the difficult fields. And that's true for a bunch of services/requirements in Thailand.
Probably worst of all is that even if you have a work permit (or, in my case, a marriage visa), you still have to go to immigration once every 90 days just to confirm that you're still in the country and don't have any warrants out for your arrest. 90-day reports are the bane of any foreigner in Thailand and take a whole day for what is essentially just a roll call.
Untangling those is a full time job for me.
There's no fee for the 90-day renewal, so no opportunity for expecting a bribe - unlike so many other aspects of Thai immigration, where chance of a bribe seems to guide policy, and obfuscation of those policies. So the 90-day renewal does not even enrich govt, or (more importantly :) its immi officers. It is just an unjustified nuisance to all participants.
And you need an exit visa if you plan to leave the country before the 90 days and then re-enter. Also unnecessary, because you will transit immigration at the border anyway - unless you are sailing out on your private yacht :)
It is difficult to move countries and change banks/phones/2FA. Banks seem to think that changing a phone is significant - they Knew Their Customer last month, but getting a burner phone in a different country seems to mean they do not Know You Now as a Customer. Phones do not (should not) indicate anything other than travel or holiday - not residence, not tax liability, not property ownership, not marriage, not intentions for a full tax year, nothing.
If you are renting in a resort/tower/block from a company, and they have an online govt account (most should), then when you sign a lease or long-stay, they should file a TM 10 online. You should report to the immi office within 30 days, but it's a formality, they just check on the system. When you next do annual renewal, you need to bring copies of the property ownership records (Blue Book, etc.), but the company should be well-organized, well-documented and familiar with the procedure.
The problem is private landlords. They do not have online account, and you together, will have to file paper TM 10 at the immi office. You will need Blue Book etc, but there may be a chain of ownerships of the property, mixing Thai individuals, Thai companies, and farangs who want to hide their identity or stake (more than 49% ownership by farangs is illegal). Then it can be almost impossible to get the right docs.
You cannot stay hotel, temporary boarding, or AirBnB for a long-term visa.
Note, that bribing public officials is an offence in your home country, if you are from US, UK, EU, (... OECD), because FCPA, UK BA etc. Doing your own application, without any bribe, is the best approach, ethically and financially (but not for stress and hassle :) Make it a point of honor to do the application yourself.
If you are going through something, it's good to have long-term relationships to lean on. The hardest part of long-term travel for me is loneliness. I could be a digital nomad, but my friends make me miss home after 4-6 weeks.
Dubai executes trans people, and that person may not identify as trans but I'd absolutely be terrified to go there if I were visibly gender non-conforming.
Is it just fun for people to be around rich oil arabian men?
T a x F r e e
and also has (expensive) alcohol, unlike Saudi (hotter, duller, more backward, no music, and no beer).
Dubai should not be a tourist destination. There is nothing there.
If you want desert and desolation, with mountains, and nicer people, go to Oman. Musandam is remarkable (fjords on the Strait of Hormuz!), and usually accessed from Dubai. Hiking around Jabal Shams canyon, or Jebel Akhdar, can be tough but enchanting (apricot and rose harvests), and there are a smattering of old forts in the mountains (e.g. Nizwa).
Egypt is much more famous, and rightly so. However, the best single destination in the world, not just the Arab world, is Petra (Jordan), which should certainly top any bucket list.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikhailfranco/albums
An early morning view of The Monastery at Petra, with my poetic musings...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikhailfranco/8579438475/
Counterclaim: I live in Dubai, have several trans friends and colleagues who live and work here, and they have many other trans friends who come to visit frequently.
Never heard a single instance or issue of this, not to mention executions.
Where are you getting this crap from?
I think the way to go is to have a home where you stay ~9 months out of the year. A secondary home where you stay 1-2 months a year. Then you spend a month on vacation traveling and checking out new destinations.
It's not so bad if you live cheap for 9 months, and sublet your apartment while you're gone. Traveling doesn't have to mean flying every week either. Many destinations are cheaper than home, and staying there actually saves you money after a while.
So if you're on a developer salary in Europe, this sort of arrangement is well within your means.
Added benefit is you can run an AirBnB off-season, depending on where and what you buy.
Such things are realizable loan-free with a few years worth of savings, no richness needed.
Do you envy people who can do evil things better than you?
They are but economic migrants, of varying... shades.
* In Berlin, two Indian guys work at Delivery Hero. One writes code in an office and the other delivers food on a bike. One gets called an expat and the other an immigrant.