Because the term "Indian" is largely used to refer only to Northern Indian "things". In this case, Butter Chicken. It's not something that you'd normally find anyone cooking down South.
Butter was invented in Africa a long time ago. Chickens got domesticated in SE Asia and China, introduced to India thousands of years later. So India can’t now claim they invented either.
Ah yeah, there's a great wikipedia article that shows which common vegetables and fruits originated in which parts of the world before the Columbian exchange. Really makes you think that Italian food once had no tomatoes. And Irish and Eastern European food had no potatoes. [1]
If it is a meat dish, from India, it is far more likely to have been invented by Indians for the Brits living in India. Whether that makes it Indian or British I leave to others.
That's not true. Huge numbers of Indians aren't Hindu and do eat meat. Less than 40% of the country is vegetarian. There are meat dishes that pre-date the arrival of the British, although it's true that almost all Indian food has been altered by British colonialism.
Yum indeed! I also make sure to ask for an extra helping of the (dry) peanut chutney. That and the green chillies are must-haves with a vada pav for me :)
I've always heard it referred to as "Dana Chutney", Dana being a contraction of Shengdana.
I don't know if it's the same thing as Thecha, though -- but it does fit the description. I'm wondering if this is a geographical difference in culinary terminology :)
> And Portuguese colonialism. Practically all modern Punjabi food from makki to rajma is from South America.
Vindeloo is derived from Portuguese cuisine as well. In fact, the Portuguese are widely accredited with introducing spicy chili peppers into Indian cuisine.
>Huge numbers of Indians aren't Hindu and do eat meat.
Just in case anyone has the wrong idea (and I guess some people do), being Hindu does not equate to not eating meat.
Many Hindus eat meat (and many don't (though even that has nuances)), and have done so from ancient times, not just nowadays because of modernisation or westernization, although that has increased the percentage too, IMO.
Do you want to send your cell phone, tablet, laptop back? Or stop using the internet? iPhones and Teslas and Levi's, great, but let's complain about McDonalds and Coke and Hollywood. The world is all connected now, that ship sailed a long time ago.
To be fair, Indian restaurants in the west sell a fully bastardized version of Indian food from India. (Canada is an exception, UK does its own thing)
Despite being the predominant regional cuisine, the Punjabi/Mughlai food in the west also the most disappointmenting. Consistently too sweet, too creamy, too tomatoey and lacking the depth of fresh spices.
Ahh to be from the Midwest where if you're lucky enough to have an Indian restaurant in your town, half the time you're getting something that's more chicken tikki than butter chicken.
Also, I feel if it does have fenugreek in it, it isn't a "real" murgh makhani either.
> The curry was developed at the Moti Mahal restaurant in the Daryaganj neighbourhood of Old Delhi in the 1950s, after the Partition of India by Kundan Lal Jaggi and Kundan Lal Gujral, who were both Punjabi refugees from Peshawar.
Whoever did it, but if the dates are correct, I’m surprised that this is a recent dish/recipe, not something like the Mughals introduced to India. The types of dishes that Butter Chicken is categorized into sound like Mughlai cuisine[2].
Disclaimer: Besides my curiosity, I eat to live and have no clue in many, many cases related to food and cuisines.
54 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 114 ms ] thread> It’s one of India’s most beloved dishes and can be found bubbling on kitchen stoves or served on silver in restaurants across the country.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_exchange
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_pepper
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pepper
I'll stop with this and refrain from mentioning how South Indian cuisine has been corrupted by Northern Indian cultural imperialism :)
Dont forget the vada pav either.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vada_pav
Not a bad dish, though carb-heavy, like pav bhaji.
I've had it many times when I lived in Maharashtra.
For me, it's incomplete without the fried and salted green chillies as an accompaniment. Yum. :)
Do you mean thecha?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thecha
I have read about it, but unfortunately I did not come across it, despite living in Maharashtra for some years.
Got to say, from the description, it sounds like it would taste quite good.
And could be a good accompaniment to many dishes.
I don't know if it's the same thing as Thecha, though -- but it does fit the description. I'm wondering if this is a geographical difference in culinary terminology :)
Dana (as a short form) and shengdana both mean peanuts, in Marathi, the main language of Maharashtra.
Actually dana means seed in both Marathi and Hindi, as in anardana, which means pomegranate (seed), meaning the part of the pomegranate that you eat.
As you said, words can vary a lot between regions - and not just for culinary terms.
Vindeloo is derived from Portuguese cuisine as well. In fact, the Portuguese are widely accredited with introducing spicy chili peppers into Indian cuisine.
I've had both kinds, both in Goa.
See:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vindaloo
The original did not have potatoes. but because aloo means potato in Hindi, others have changed the dish by including potatoes.
Just in case anyone has the wrong idea (and I guess some people do), being Hindu does not equate to not eating meat.
Many Hindus eat meat (and many don't (though even that has nuances)), and have done so from ancient times, not just nowadays because of modernisation or westernization, although that has increased the percentage too, IMO.
>The world is all connected now, that ship sailed a long time ago.
You, triple above:
>>Stop appropriating American culture.
Me:
The world is all connected now, that ship sailed a long time ago.
Tech, tech, tech, tech, tech, tech and clothing
Whoever invented it, it tastes too sweet to me. Probably due to the amount of onion (1) in it, an issue I come across in Indian veg gravy dishes too.
(1) The article says it is made in a tomato gravy, but my guess is that it is an onion and tomato gravy, not just a tomato one.
“They say the recipe […] was invented by Gujral in the 1930s”.
Jk.
Let’s do the math:
Assume 5 years old to remember anything.
1946 is before 1947.
To be 5 in 1946, they’re born in 1941.
1941 was 82 years ago.
82+ years old and commenting on HackerNews?
Statistically unlikely but definitely plausible. Us nerds are getting up there in years so there’s certainly some octogenarians hanging around.
Of course, if reincarnation theory is true, I might have eaten it in some past life between 1947 and my birth year in this one.
ChatGPT, do you remember your past lives?
Despite being the predominant regional cuisine, the Punjabi/Mughlai food in the west also the most disappointmenting. Consistently too sweet, too creamy, too tomatoey and lacking the depth of fresh spices.
The situation is similar for Chinese restaurants in India.
I first got to know about this from my aunt, an Indian but a naturalised US citizen, when she came on one of her periodic visits to India, to see us.
When we were eating at a Chinese restaurant in India, she remarked that the food was very different from authentic Chinese food.
(It has been heavily modified to use Indian spices and to appeal to Indian tastes.)
Later, when I went to Chinese restaurants in Malaysia and the US, I could see this for myself.
Also, I feel if it does have fenugreek in it, it isn't a "real" murgh makhani either.
> The curry was developed at the Moti Mahal restaurant in the Daryaganj neighbourhood of Old Delhi in the 1950s, after the Partition of India by Kundan Lal Jaggi and Kundan Lal Gujral, who were both Punjabi refugees from Peshawar.
Whoever did it, but if the dates are correct, I’m surprised that this is a recent dish/recipe, not something like the Mughals introduced to India. The types of dishes that Butter Chicken is categorized into sound like Mughlai cuisine[2].
Disclaimer: Besides my curiosity, I eat to live and have no clue in many, many cases related to food and cuisines.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_chicken
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughlai_cuisine
That said, based on linguistics, I don't think the tomato arrived in India until at least the late 1700s.